Nicotine Uncouples Mitochondria

[jyb]

If nicotine has a similar effect to phenylbutyrate acting as a hdac inhibitor its liable to have higher addictive potential, looking through the threads on nicotine by the op you can see this is what I'm pointing to.
Withdrawals come with this. Keep in mind the half life of nicotine is 1 to 2 hours.
Claiming it has no addictive potential and currently recommending nicotine in relation to other adaptive substance is what seems pointless imo.

Addiction is a concern I had when reading the pros and cons as I was experimenting with nicotine. But there's a lot of assumptions in some studies, and a lot of debate. Some concerns remained after my experience and some new ones arose, but addiction was definitely not one of them. If I had to blame anything relating to tobacco regarding addiction, I would blame some of the non-nicotine effects you find when smoking cigarettes (I carefully compared pure nicotine and smoking tobacco). Those can be extremely powerful mood and creativity stimulators. They are really awesome and stimulated my brain in the most Peaty way possible. And I can see how that could be addictive, because you want to continue to use it to be creative and sociable and so you return smoking as soon as things go down again. (Although I personally believe it is difficult to get addicted from smoking a couple cigs a day, which is the case of many smokers. Smoking studies are almost always about heavy chimney smokers, I don't think I need to remind anyone how biased some studies are...)

 

[Drareg]

Addiction is a concern I had when reading the pros and cons as I was experimenting with nicotine. But there's a lot of assumptions in some studies, and a lot of debate. Some concerns remained after my experience and some new ones arose, but addiction was definitely not one of them. If I had to blame anything relating to tobacco regarding addiction, I would blame some of the non-nicotine effects you find when smoking cigarettes (I carefully compared pure nicotine and smoking tobacco). Those can be extremely powerful mood and creativity stimulators. They are really awesome and stimulated my brain in the most Peaty way possible. And I can see how that could be addictive, because you want to continue to use it to be creative and sociable and so you return smoking as soon as things go down again. (Although I personally believe it is difficult to get addicted from smoking a couple cigs a day, which is the case of many smokers. Of course none of the population studies are about those.)

I agree studies are open to debate particularly from our point of view, most of us on here are not in that profession to see through the nonsense.

The question you would have to ask yourself is whether or not anyone would bother with smoking tobacco for centuries if nicotine was not in it, I don't think they would, the other stuff doesn't seem as potent.

Nicotine category of hdac inhibition used to be available on Wikipedia ,they have taken it down recently so I'm not sure what class it's going to be put into or if they know more on it.
Niacinamide is a class III I believe. All substances that effect DNA this way seem to enhance performance, cocaine and the other Caines de methylated the dna, many entertainers are taking cocaine for this reason.

The half life of 1 to 2 hours for nicotine is always going to be an issue, it would be cruel imo for someone new to the forum start on nicotine particularly if they had the usual complaints that bring us all here. Its not too dissimilar to recommending a smidge of cocaine throughout the day when we look at how they are working. I'm not sure but I think cocaine has a half life of 5hours.

 

[Dopamine]

The half life of 1 to 2 hours for nicotine is always going to be an issue, it would be cruel imo for someone new to the forum start on nicotine particularly if they had the usual complaints that bring us all here. Its not too dissimilar to recommending a smidge of cocaine throughout the day when we look at how they are working. I'm not sure but I think cocaine has a half life of 5hours.

I started on nicotine and the half life has never been an issue- I like it. Caffeine late in the day disturbs my sleep while nicotine hasn't given me these problems. I think nicotine is tolerated better than caffeine for some people and actually could be a better choice for people within a certain context. I have found caffeine blunts my appetite more than nicotine. Nicotine also has beneficial effects on my anxiety, depression and ADHD symptoms, caffeine has marginal effects. Caffeine also has greater propensity for giving me cold hands and feet... nicotine never has...

It should also be noted that although nicotine has a half life of around 2 hours- it breaks down into a metabolite called cotinine which has many beneficial effects and is active for around 18-20 hours.

 

[mujuro]

I occasionally buy a pack at the gas station. I find I will smoke 2 or 3 a day for a few days and then get sick of it and toss them away. Sometimes I go weeks without a single cigarette. I like the relaxing effects of the nicotine but it is definitely not enough to keep me coming back. I am bipolar and I am medicated but between cigarettes I still feel my mood fall below normal, and smoking a cigarette doesn't really improve it much, it just seems to bring it up to "baseline" so to speak. I much prefer the positive, stable effects of MB, coffee, lots of niacinamide, and one thing I've picked up on is carbohydrate intake - the days I get 700g+ of white potato, I feel absolutely terrific.

 

[Dopamine]

I occasionally buy a pack at the gas station. I find I will smoke 2 or 3 a day for a few days and then get sick of it and toss them away. Sometimes I go weeks without a single cigarette. I like the relaxing effects of the nicotine but it is definitely not enough to keep me coming back. I am bipolar and I am medicated but between cigarettes I still feel my mood fall below normal, and smoking a cigarette doesn't really improve it much, it just seems to bring it up to "baseline" so to speak. I much prefer the positive, stable effects of MB, coffee, lots of niacinamide, and one thing I've picked up on is carbohydrate intake - the days I get 700g+ of white potato, I feel absolutely terrific.

I am assuming that you consume lots of salt with your potatoes? I know Ray has said:

"In the periodic table of the elements, lithium is immediately above sodium, meaning that it has the chemical properties of sodium, but with a smaller atomic radius, which makes its electrical charge more intense. Its physiological effects are so close to sodium’s that we can get clues to sodium’s actions by watching what lithium does."

Perhaps it is the salt with the potatoes that is balancing your mood as sodium acts like lithium and lithium helps treat bipolar. I am sure the high quality carbs and protein of potato help too. Just something to consider.

 

[mujuro]

I am assuming that you consume lots of salt with your potatoes? I know Ray has said:

"In the periodic table of the elements, lithium is immediately above sodium, meaning that it has the chemical properties of sodium, but with a smaller atomic radius, which makes its electrical charge more intense. Its physiological effects are so close to sodium’s that we can get clues to sodium’s actions by watching what lithium does."

Perhaps it is the salt with the potatoes that is balancing your mood as sodium acts like lithium and lithium helps treat bipolar. I am sure the high quality carbs and protein of potato help too. Just something to consider.

You may be on to something. I am on 450mg lithium carbonate daily which is a moderate dose for bipolar (standard is 900mg), but that's not to say that extra sodium is not additive on top of this. I definitely feel better and have a stronger appetite when I cover my potatoes in copious amounts of salt.

 

[TubZy]

Generally people who are addicted try to justify it.
Your claim that nicotine has not been particular addictive has been shown to be your own fallacy in your other thread on nicotine.

Nicotine has severe withdrawals on the same level of phenibut.

Sorry, but I have to completely disagree with this. I used both and off before throughout college. Phenibut withdrawals are insane worse than anything you could imagine. I used to use it before bed for bodybuilding purposes in terms of sleep. I'm not talking daily usage either, max 3 times a week (I was actually not using it often to avoid the withdrawals, but that wasn't even enough).

I smoked cigarettes on and off multiple times a week (hooka too) while in college a few years ago and never experienced an ounce of any withdrawal symptoms.

Phenibut acts on GABA specifically GABA-B (it does have some dopamine properties too), going through withdrawals regarding anything that severely down-regulates GABA when ceasing is absolute hell. Think of benzo and alcohol withdrawals.

I think caffeine withdrawals would be more comparable to nicotine (I should say cigarettes not specifically to nicotine) withdrawals, but I didn't experience it.

Given nicotine's benefits on neurosteroids and DHT it has sparked my interest again, mainly the gum, since I am responding extremely well to caffeine in that regard.

Now my real interest is the nicotine + niacinamide combo....hmmm...plus the gum from the nicotine would penetrate the BBB better than just using it orally (well it is still orally, but im sure you are absorbing some nicotine through the membrane of the mouth as well). Just like how the studies showed intranasal ingestion of pregenenolone penetrated the brain better compared to just taking it the standard oral route.

 

[Drareg]

Sorry, but I have to completely disagree with this. I used both and off before throughout college. Phenibut withdrawals are insane worse than anything you could imagine. I used to use it before bed for bodybuilding purposes in terms of sleep. I'm not talking daily usage either, max 3 times a week (I was actually not using it often to avoid the withdrawals, but that wasn't even enough).

I smoked cigarettes on and off multiple times a week (hooka too) while in college a few years ago and never experienced an ounce of any withdrawal symptoms.

Phenibut acts on GABA specifically GABA-B (it does have some dopamine properties too), going through withdrawals regarding anything that severely down-regulates GABA when ceasing is absolute hell. Think of benzo and alcohol withdrawals.

I think caffeine withdrawals would be more comparable to nicotine (I should say cigarettes not specifically to nicotine) withdrawals, but I didn't experience it.

Given nicotine's benefits on neurosteroids and DHT it has sparked my interest again, mainly the gum, since I am responding extremely well to caffeine in that regard.

Now my real interest is the nicotine + niacinamide combo....hmmm...plus the gum from the nicotine would penetrate the BBB better than just using it orally (well it is still orally, but im sure you are absorbing some nicotine through the membrane of the mouth as well). Just like how the studies showed intranasal ingestion of pregenenolone penetrated the brain better compared to just taking it the standard oral route.

Yeah phenibut is potent stuff.
Just wanted to see what forum member dopamine had,if new research was there etc ,if you were stuck in a situation nicotine is far from the end of the world,I think that's what we concluded ,not for me though.
Have you tried pregnenolone that way?

Im sleep deprived for almost 2 weeks now from work,nothing beats sleep imo,nothing can pull you out of it supplement wise,even if you take caffeine etc to keep awake your brain isn't right,I wasn't tired on the surface,yawning etc but mental capacity is down.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

Now my real interest is the nicotine + niacinamide combo.

What is the rationale behind this combo? Nicotine is supposed to release fatty acids and niacinamide is supposed to inhibit it.

 

[Fractality]

Does anyone have a recommended method for administering caffeine? I've read that the gum provides a steady longer-lasting dose of nicotine and thus preferable to vaping/smoking.

 

[TubZy]

What is the rationale behind this combo? Nicotine is supposed to release fatty acids and niacinamide is supposed to inhibit it.

I think you answered your own question lol, but also the reduction in cortisol/adrenaline while increasing GABA (just like the caffeine+ niacinamide combo in the thyroid surrogate thread)

Nicotine can be excitotoxic due to the glutamate increase so anything that raises GABA can help.

FYI, caffeine can also raise FFA too which is why niacinamide is used in combo.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I think you answered your own question lol, but also the reduction in cortisol/adrenaline while increasing GABA (just like the caffeine+ niacinamide combo in the thyroid surrogate thread)

Nicotine can be excitotoxic due to the glutamate increase so anything that raises GABA can help.

FYI, caffeine can also raise FFA too which is why niacinamide is used in combo.

Well let us know if you try it and think it helps. I would have figured that the net effect would be minimal since they are antagonistic.

 

[LadyRae]

I started on nicotine and the half life has never been an issue- I like it. Caffeine late in the day disturbs my sleep while nicotine hasn't given me these problems. I think nicotine is tolerated better than caffeine for some people and actually could be a better choice for people within a certain context. I have found caffeine blunts my appetite more than nicotine. Nicotine also has beneficial effects on my anxiety, depression and ADHD symptoms, caffeine has marginal effects. Caffeine also has greater propensity for giving me cold hands and feet... nicotine never has...

It should also be noted that although nicotine has a half life of around 2 hours- it breaks down into a metabolite called cotinine which has many beneficial effects and is active for around 18-20 hours.

Yes, I love a 2mg nicotine lozenge before a workout. Lots of energy, no anxiety, doesn't mess with my sleep even when taken in the afternoon. I'll do this consistently 3-4x/week for a while, run out of lozenges, forget about it, and then re-order a few weeks later. So, no addiction. I was never a smoker.

A 4mg piece of nicorette gum made me vomit once....

 

[sun-maid]

A while ago, I wrote to ray regarding the use of one nicotine toothpick (3mg nicotine per toothpick) here and there. He said :

"I think that small amount is probably safe."

 

[LuMonty]

Personally, I couldn't get T3 to work consistently and was reading about thickening of tissue. Long story short, I started vaping and it worked. Thing is, I've taken weeks and even months of using it and didn't even think about it. My sleep did get much worse (tongue got thick again, sleep apnea). So I use the stuff unless I start to feel poorly; I had to move the vape to my desk so I'd remember to use it.

 

[Mauritio]

A while ago, I wrote to ray regarding the use of one nicotine toothpick (3mg nicotine per toothpick) here and there. He said :

"I think that small amount is probably safe."

Thanks, that is very good to know. I was suspecting the same , but since we can't ask him anymore I'm happy you did while he was still around.

I'll add this to the email advice thread.