Nicotine [Through A Peat Prism?]

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Dopamine

Dopamine

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I don't have anything scientific to say but as a rube user nicotine and caffeine seem obviously different to me. I don't even really "feel" caffeine. I don't experience cravings and I don't experience withdrawal. On a day to day basis I just notice caffeine helps keep things ticking over better. So I drink four cups of strong coffee and two cups of tea.

And by caffeine I mean tea and coffee, which we all know are both far more than just caffeine.

I only crave tobacco (tiny snorts of Dholakia White snuff in my case) when under stress and short of sleep. It's insanely valuable for pulling long hours and mustering concentration when you wouldn't otherwise be able to manage.

On any given day I will always enjoy a good coffee or tea. The idea of using tobacco on vacation doesn't even cross my mind. For me it is very clearly a substance that helps to cope with short term stress.

You don't "feel" caffeine because you take it so much that you've developed a tolerance to it. If you raised the dose or took a long break you would feel it. Nicotine works the same way.
 

bobbybobbob

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You don't "feel" caffeine because you take it so much that you've developed a tolerance to it. If you raised the dose or took a long break you would feel it. Nicotine works the same way.

You're probably right but why do I have zero craving for tobacco excepting acute stress? Happy and stress free a good cup of coffee always hits the spot.
 

DaveFoster

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Different strokes for different folks.

Nicotine is more potent than caffeine. If you need it, then you need it.
 

Drareg

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You're probably right but why do I have zero craving for tobacco excepting acute stress? Happy and stress free a good cup of coffee always hits the spot.

Probably because coffee is food.
Nicotine is like craving cociane/crack when your stressed,small Peaty amounts of crack of course,lab grade crack cocaine gets used by many ,"successful people".
 

Drareg

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The point of my original post was mostly to compare nicotine with caffeine... A drug that Ray Peat has written extensively on and generally recommends. We can argue details all day however the point i'm trying to make is that nicotine has very similar effects on the body as caffeine. Nicotine shows similar trends in hormone production/release, dopamine release, serotonin uptake, stress response, neuroprotection, ffa release, glycolysis... etc... I haven't seen any evidence to show that caffeine is safer or superior to nicotine... All I have seen are similarities. I'm not claiming nicotine is a "superdrug" that can do no harm... I'm trying to show how similar nicotine is to caffeine and that they can likely be used interchangebly in the same context. I have never tried nicotine btw and I am trying to come from an unbiased perspective.

Nicotine and caffeine/COFFEE cannot be used interchangeably , many substances that stimulate metabolism will look similar.
He talks about caffeine but recommends COFFEE because it is a food with more than caffeine in it, nicotine is not a food,chewing tobacco will make you sick.

I feel very strongly that you have used nicotine and continue to do so.
 
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Dopamine

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Nicotine and caffeine/COFFEE cannot be used interchangeably , many substances that stimulate metabolism will look similar.
He talks about caffeine but recommends COFFEE because it is a food with more than caffeine in it, nicotine is not a food,chewing tobacco will make you sick.

I feel very strongly that you have used nicotine and continue to do so.

You keep making statements but you haven't backed any of them up with facts. In my original post I cited a whole page of scientific studies showing how caffeine acts in similar ways to nicotine. I don't think you've cited anything. If they look similar and work similar why can't they be used for similar purposes? You just restated the point i'm trying to make. Decaf has some benefits as an antioxidant and the polyphenols help with lowering iron absorption but most of the metabolic benefits of coffee come from the caffeine. That is why Rays' article is titled- "Caffeine: A vitamin-like nutrient, or adaptogen" In the article he clearly seperates between caffeine and coffee.

Chewing tobacco will make you sick... if you overdose yes.
Chewing raw coffee beans will make you sick... yes
Chewing orange peels will make you sick... yes

Many foods need to be processed to become edible and must have certain components removed. Most foods need to be consumed in a certain way... This doesn't disqualify them as healthy.

I don't care what you "feel"... you have completely failed to provide a logical argument for why caffeine is superior to nicotine besides pointing out that coffee is a food and caffeine/nicotine are not... foods are just a combination of different chemicals anyways there is nothing magical about food. You also keep talking about how addictive nicotine is which just makes me think you are an ex smoker... As far as i'm aware there are currently no clinical trials on humans demonstrating nicotine dependence in "non-smokers." Cigarettes have ingredients other than nicotine that make them more addictive. This is a fact. Not saying that chronic nicotine use won't create dependence... it does. So does coffee. Isolated nicotine is a stimulant with mild addictive properties similar to caffeine. There ARE btw clinical trials on humans demonstrating caffeine dependence and withdrawals. I will link one below. To be fair the test subjects are coffee drinkers not "non-drinkers."
Caffeine self-administration, withdrawal, and adverse effects among coffee drinkers. - PubMed - NCBI

Probably because coffee is food.
Nicotine is like craving cociane/crack when your stressed,small Peaty amounts of crack of course,lab grade crack cocaine gets used by many ,"successful people".

Again with empty statements completely unsupported by scientific studies and facts. Your bias against nicotine is so strong its coming out your ears. Are you a jaded ex smoker perchance? Or have friends who died from smoking? Unless you have something productive to contribute i'm done argueing with you.
 
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squanch

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Haven't read the entire thread but I always wondered why vaporizing actual tobacco (not that shitty e-cigarette liquid) in the same way you would vaporize cannabis never became a thing? Wouldn't that eliminate most negative effects associated with smoking tobacco while at the same time avoiding the questionable ingredients in those e-cigarette liquids?
Just put some additive free tobacco in something like this for example: VAPONIC - Your tonic, Vaponic
Or an electric vaporizer if you have the money.
Am I missing something here?
 
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CoolTweetPete

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BlueBrainBoost, the vendor I get my methylene blue from is now selling nicotine in vegetable glycerin as Dan mentioned. I purchased a couple of bottles to experiment with. Will report back.

They are also currently running a promo for a free bottle of methylene blue USP (usually $10 I think). Use promo code BLUE. I bought the nicotine to get free shipping. :D
 
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Dopamine

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Haven't read the entire thread but I always wondered why vaporizing actual tobacco (not that shitty e-cigarette liquid) in the same way you would vaporize cannabis never became a thing? Wouldn't that eliminate most negative effects associated with smoking tobacco while at the same time avoiding the questionable ingredients in those e-cigarette liquids?
Just put some additive free tobacco in something like this for example: VAPONIC - Your tonic, Vaponic
Or an electric vaporizer if you have the money.
Am I missing something here?

Thats a good point. I know people do it but its definetly not as popular as e-liquid. Probaly because you can buy e-liquid in flavors like "cotton candy" or "cheesecake"... I think people see it as more of a novelty and a movement away from the stigma associated with tobacco cigarettes. It would likely be a safe and desirable alternative to smoking if you could find good quality additive free tobacco. Not sure how expensive it would be...
 

Drareg

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Your creating a fine strawman there.

I have had several things contributed to this thread, unfortunately it is clear you won't accept contrary evidence on nicotine, you are claiming to view nicotine through a Peat prism, your not doing that. Throughout this thread I have asked you questions you won't answer,it's there for people to see. You can CITE all day ,Peat is not currently recommending nicotine before other substance.

I Have cited articles in this thread, your ignoring this.
You still are claiming caffeine and nicotine are the same, I explained the logic behind any substance that Peat recommends to increase metabolism will look similar in effects. You say they act similar, I explained that cocaine in a small enough dose will act similar,you ignore this and other points like it.

Chewing coffee beans will not make you sick,they are ground and used in COFFEE , ground and used in desserts,ground and used in pastry,in icecream in ground form.
Chewing orange peel will not make you sick,it's actually very nice, many recipes out there for angle peel and citrus in general, the essential oils in orange peel are recommended by Peat.
Making tobacco tea or chewing it is not in the same category of the above,this is the reason why we don't see tobacco tea a lot,tobacco pastry or tabocco icecream,I'm sure there are idiots who have tried it.
Children in Europe will be allowed consume coffee in a dessert,raw orange peel also, people thankfully in general are not giving kids tobacco, humans are not entirely stupid.

You claim there is nothing magical about food, there clearly is.
Food is just chemicals you say,correct but we still don't know if we have discovered everything in food,this is why coffee is more beneficial than caffeine and whole foods still better than individual isolated chemicals ideally. There are more coherent foods and foods consumed during a famine as a means to survive, these foods keep you in survival mode,not good in the long term.
Peat mentioned how people used to eat clay during a famine for minerals.

Not having enough clinical trials on nicotine may well be the reason Peat does not recommend it,many people believed niacin,nicotinic acid are the same as niacinamide, b3 they are named, they are not the behaving the same,similar molecules as they are.

You also are refusing to acknowledge thousand of studies done on cigarettes , you are claiming cigarettes are addictive because of the other substances like Mao inhibitors added to them, nicotine is implicated in all these studies as being an addictive component in cigarettes, it's highly unlikely people will smoke if you remove nicotine from the cigarette, 50 years ago they didn't have the ADDITIONAL addictive substance ,just nicotine yet they were still addictive, how do you explain this? They may be MORE addictive now but they always were addictive.
The smoke itself obviously has ill effects,e cigarettes contain nitro glycerine in general, not exactly a great substance in the body, nicotine gum has been mentioned by many here to cause nausea and upset stomach, you ignore this and claim its only from overdose, it clearly is not.

Chronic nicotine creates dependence ,you admit it here because it is clear. You make no case to claim it is better than substances with less addictive properties ,coffee does not cause withdrawals at the level of nicotine when you have a healthy metabolism ,good thyroid function ,using nicotine with an already good metabolism will cause withdrawals far worse than coffee. Coffee is not a potent hdac inhibitor.

I cherry picked 2 studies just like you have been doing , below it claims an increase in nitric oxide,not good. The paper mentions smoking but from reading it they just used nicotine.

Nicotine inhibits the proliferation by upregulation of nitric oxide and increased HDAC1 in mouse neural stem cells. - PubMed - NCBI
N (G)-nitro-L-arginine Methyl Ester Protects Against Hormonal Imbalances Associated with Nicotine Administration in Male Rats. - PubMed - NCBI

I'm not arguing but debating a different point of view ,you claim you use facts based on research papers you posted, from this you can't state they are facts, they are STUDIES, we can cite all day.
I have no bias against nicotine ,this is clear in the thread,I'm interested in anything acting as a hdac inhibitor.

I'm not an ex smoker and the point of claiming I must have friends who have died from smoking is what exactly??

You continually ignore evidence to the contrary, I will continue to comment in this thread. You don't own the thread or the forum, I don't have to comment what you perceive is productive, clearly the only thing you find productive is anything pro nicotine, you remind me of a former forum member who was pro Tabacco,ignored different points of view and reacted when shown the fallacy in his claims.
 
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Dopamine

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Chewing coffee beans will not make you sick,they are ground and used in COFFEE , ground and used in desserts,ground and used in pastry,in icecream in ground form.
Chewing orange peel will not make you sick,it's actually very nice, many recipes out there for angle peel and citrus in general, the essential oils in orange peel are recommended by Peat.
Making tobacco tea or chewing it is not in the same category of the above,this is the reason why we don't see tobacco tea a lot,tobacco pastry or tabocco icecream,I'm sure there are idiots who have tried it.
Children in Europe will be allowed consume coffee in a dessert,raw orange peel also, people thankfully in general are not giving kids tobacco, humans are not entirely stupid.

You completely missed the point I was trying to make... btw I said raw coffee beans not roasted

You still are claiming caffeine and nicotine are the same, I explained the logic behind any substance that Peat recommends to increase metabolism will look similar in effects. You say they act similar, I explained that cocaine in a small enough dose will act similar,you ignore this and other points like it.

I have not claimed they are the same- I said they are likely interchangable in the same health context. They do act similarly- I have shown this over and over again in previous posts.

Not having enough clinical trials on nicotine may well be the reason Peat does not recommend it

Lots of clinical trials on nicotine.
None showing dependence in non smokers.
Same thing with caffeine. Lots of trials but None showing dependence in non coffee drinkers.

You also are refusing to acknowledge thousand of studies done on cigarettes , you are claiming cigarettes are addictive because of the other substances like Mao inhibitors added to them, nicotine is implicated in all these studies as being an addictive component in cigarettes, it's highly unlikely people will smoke if you remove nicotine from the cigarette, 50 years ago they didn't have the ADDITIONAL addictive substance ,just nicotine yet they were still addictive, how do you explain this? They may be MORE addictive now but they always were addictive.

Again you have missed the point. Yes nicotine is addictive I did not deny that. So is caffeine. Also people may smoke if you remove nicotine from cigarettes... why do people drink decaf coffee? People would smoke cigs for MAO inhibiton alone...

The smoke itself obviously has ill effects,e cigarettes contain nitro glycerine in general, not exactly a great substance in the body

E-cigarettes do not contain nitroglycerin lol... that would kill you

nicotine gum has been mentioned by many here to cause nausea and upset stomach, you ignore this and claim its only from overdose, it clearly is not.

I've ignored this because I don't care

Chronic nicotine creates dependence ,you admit it here because it is clear. You make no case to claim it is better than substances with less addictive properties ,coffee does not cause withdrawals at the level of nicotine when you have a healthy metabolism ,good thyroid function ,using nicotine with an already good metabolism will cause withdrawals far worse than coffee. Coffee is not a potent hdac inhibitor.

More anecdotal statements with no evidence... yes nicotine creates dependence... so does coffee... whats your point? Coffee is not a potent HDAC inhibitor? I assume you miss-worded this. Ray says HDAC inhibition is a good thing... Nicotine is a HDAC inhibitor...

MMS: Error
"we assayed histone deacetylase (HDAC) activity directly in the nuclear fraction of striatum cells and found a 28% reduction in mice given nicotine for 7 to 10 days; by contrast, the mice given cocaine for 7 days had no decrease in HDAC activity.19 The increased histone acetylation in mice given nicotine seemed to result from reduced HDAC activity in the striatum."

Epigenetics of Nicotine: Another Nail in the Coughing
"Nicotine enhanced histone acetylation by inhibiting HDACs and thus deacetylation, which favors gene silencing. This nicotine-induced epigenetic modification may give rise to an open chromatin structure that primes FosB for enhanced transcriptional activation after chronic cocaine use, thus facilitating or promoting cocaine-use behaviors. The ability of chronic, but not acute, nicotine exposure to act as an HDAC inhibitor had not been reported previously and could have far-reaching translational implications not only for nicotine and other drug addictions but also for a host of smoking-related illnesses, including cancer."

I have no bias against nicotine ,this is clear in the thread,I'm interested in anything acting as a hdac inhibitor.
Than you should be interested in trying nicotine.

I cherry picked 2 studies just like you have been doing , below it claims an increase in nitric oxide,not good. The paper mentions smoking but from reading it they just used nicotine.

I'm not cherry picking studies I am understanding the big picture... Acute nicotine and caffeine can both be shown to increase NO through increases in stress hormones and FFA.

Again you have completely missed the point of my posts. I am mainly comparing nicotine to caffeine. So far you haven't provided any intelligent rebuttals to my arguments.

You continually ignore evidence to the contrary
Give me good evidence and I won't ignore it

I have had several things contributed to this thread
Yes you have and i'm not trying to trash you. I'm sorry if it sounds like that. I appreciate a good debate.
 
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Peata

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Coffee is prepared from seeds of berries from the Coffea plant. It wouldn't normally be consumed by people in the USA, as Hawaii I think is the only state that can grow it. Either way it's a product that has to be shipped to us after being processed. I drink it pretty much daily.

Tobacco (the plant called Nicotiana) however, has a long history of cultivation in the USA.

I think it's a personal choice to use either one or to use just caffeine or just nicotine as opposed to coffee or forms of tobacco. Peat may not recommend nicotine for long term, high dose use for most people, I don't know. He may not want people to use it at all, I don't know. Maybe someone can ask him. But he doesn't recommend a lot of things that are promoted here, discussed, etc. either in the high doses some are using it. For example, I don't know if he recommends high doses of biotin, but it's been discussed here on the Ray Peat forum by Haidut, and I use it and do well with it.
 
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David Chung

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I have tried nicotine patches to help my mother with memory issues, after I saw a research study done on humans. The study indicated significant improvements in trial patents' cognition. Since I don't want to turn my mom into a guinea pig, I also used nicotine patches.

Unfortunately, I have run into two issues: (1) decrease in appetite; and (2) increase in heart rate.

I had concerns regarding the second issue, so I had researched it a bit - but it seems that cigarette users have higher incidents of heart problems. Obviously, cigarette is not nicotine, but my suspicion is that nicotine had adverse effects on heart.

To me, nicotine patches effect reminds me of beta agonists, such as ephedrine. I believe that beta agonists have been known to remodel heart chamber (e.g., enlarge it), which is not a good thing.
 

Peata

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I have tried nicotine patches to help my mother with memory issues, after I saw a research study done on humans. The study indicated significant improvements in trial patents' cognition. Since I don't want to turn my mom into a guinea pig, I also used nicotine patches.

Unfortunately, I have run into two issues: (1) decrease in appetite; and (2) increase in heart rate.

I had concerns regarding the second issue, so I had researched it a bit - but it seems that cigarette users have higher incidents of heart problems. Obviously, cigarette is not nicotine, but my suspicion is that nicotine had adverse effects on heart.

To me, nicotine patches effect reminds me of beta agonists, such as ephedrine. I believe that beta agonists have been known to remodel heart chamber (e.g., enlarge it), which is not a good thing.

Have you seen any difference in your Mom?

Do you think the increased heart rate could be due to not eating enough, low blood sugar, etc. - the nicotine pressing the gas but not enough fuel to cover it, so you get adrenaline issues and fast heartbeat?
 

Drareg

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Your not making any point clear and have not done so In this thread in relation to the title ,I have been clear and giving you reasonable responses but now you insist on creating a strawman and the last 2 responses contain passive aggressive ad hominem.

The title of the thread you created is,"NICOTINE THROUGH A PEAT PRISM", in your first post you posit nicotine to have similar effect to caffeine, THIS IS WELL KNOWN BY MANY ON THE FORUM.
What is also well known is he CURRENTLY does not recommend it ahead of other adaptive substance, you have the quote from an email response.

I have said repeatedly that many substances that increase metabolism can be seen to be acting similarly, I don't refuse to see this, you refuse to see that I do see it.

Earlier in this thread you claim there is not a lot of research on isolated nicotine use, now you say there is lots of clinical trials on nicotine use.
You say no trials yet in non smokers show addiction yet you admit nicotine can cause dependence withdrawal....... I will take a wild guess and say trials will show addiction based on socioeconomic status,current diet,metabolism.


Nitroglycerine is a typo but you mock instead of asking about the use of glycerine in e cigarettes. I'm on a phone.

"I'm ignoring this because I don't care" , you say this in relation to anecdotal evidence of the forum about nausea and stomach upset caused by small amounts of nicotine gum?? This is one of the many advantages of the forum.
You then say,"people would smoke for Mao inhibition alone", this is your own opinion,a form of anecdotal evidence,clearly it's ok for you but not for others.

Ray Peat puts HDAC inhibitions into context, mild hdac inhibition is adaptive. Allows gene expression,allows the organism to function,adapt better,this feels good,too much is not good,balance.
In certain contexts like cancer ,more potent hdac inhibitor like vorinostat is helpful and is have seemingly positive effects.
phenibut,valrian,nicotine are stronger inhibitors ,niacinamide and some other Peat recommended are mild .
Cocaine acts as demthylating agent not as a hdac inhibitor ,co2 helps demethylate, glucose fuelled metabolism does the same.
cocaine one is too strong and can have side effects. The overall outcome of demethylating and hdac inhibition is SIMILAR but not the same, you have also quoted a study that nicotine use will increase the likelihood of cocaine addiction.
Food is having these effects,COFFEE! as do hormones. All the substances mentioned have other effects also ,valerian is tougher on the liver for example.
This above partially explains withdrawals because all the substances have a spring back effect, spring back effects are not nice, check the forum for threads on phenibut, I believe benzodiazepines might act like a potent hdac inhibitor, withdrawals from benzos is not nice.


You claim to understand the big picture, perhaps putting the word "trying" in that sentence would be better, you don't understand the big picture,non of us here do.
Studies are not facts particularly when it comes to a substance like nicotine that is hugely profitable even in e cigarettes,it's also addictive which makes it the perfect money making product.

I'm not missing the point of your posts,you are not comparing nicotine to caffeine with a thread titled ,"NICOTINE THROUGH A PEAT PRISM".
coffee/caffeine is consumed like food every few hours depending on your metabolism, like many people who have just one coffee a day don't need more as time passes, if you have one nicotine hit a day,the demand for this will increase as time passes to the point where you need a hit every hour to function,just like cocaine or phenibut the dose needs increasing,nature gives no magic bullet.
Stress levels ,socio economic status all relevant and will make things worse .

I'm sure Peat is putting nicotine through his own prism for years now yet still does not recommend nicotine over other adaptive less addictive substance.

Your beginning to sound like a politican with your responses, "intelligent rebuttal" , give you ,"good evidence", this all been given, how about you stop ignoring that RAY PEAT DOES NOT CURRENTLY RECOMMEND NICOTINE over other safer adaptive substance.


Here are some cherry picked studies showing increases in nitric oxide, there are loads more to be cherry picked.


A study showing nicotine effecting pregnancy negatively .
Chronic Nicotine Exposure Abolishes Maternal Systemic and Renal Adaptations to Pregnancy in Rats. - PubMed - NCBI

A study showing negative effects of nicotine treated rats,one of the groups were nicotine only. Decreased gluthatione,decreased SOD, increased nitric oxide and more.
Investigation of the protective effect of ellagic acid for preventing kidney injury in rats exposed to nicotine during the fetal period. - PubMed - NCBI

This shows the nicotine only group had an increase in nitric oxide,liver effected also it claims.
Protective Role of Crocin Against Nicotine-induced Damages on Male Mice Liver. - PubMed - NCBI

Interesting effect involving nicotine on nitric oxide.
Striatal NOS1 has dimorphic expression and activity under stress and nicotine sensitization. - PubMed - NCBI

Nicotine increases nitric oxide in males,causes weight gain in males.
Effects of chronic nicotine administration on body weight, food intake and nitric oxide concentration in female and male rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Nicotine significantly increased nitric oxide in one group.
Role of vitamin C and selenium in attenuation of nicotine induced oxidative stress, P53 and Bcl2 expression in adult rat spleen. - PubMed - NCBI

Nicotine causes increased insulin sensitivity with prolonged use, decreases sensitivity with short term use. Dual opposing roles.
Nicotinic acetylcholine receptors in glucose homeostasis: the acute hyperglycemic and chronic insulin-sensitive effects of nicotine suggest dual op... - PubMed - NCBI

Nicotine exposure in adolescence regardless of amount consumed results in increased nitric oxide activity in frontal cortex of rats, which persists through adulthood.
Brain nitric oxide metabolites in rats preselected for nicotine preference and intake. - PubMed - NCBI

Prenatal nicotine exposure,negative effects.
Angiotensin II-mediated vascular changes in aged offspring rats exposed to perinatal nicotine. - PubMed - NCBI

This is a great study showing nicotines paradoxical effects mainly on nitric oxide, at times nitric oxide is alleviating anxiety, Peats recent newsletter was called,Procrustean adaptogen -nitric oxide.
http://www.iricss.org/fa/Documents/Articles-91-92/91-19.pdf

Increasing nitric oxide,angiogenesis.
Nicotine and pathological angiogenesis. - PubMed - NCBI
 
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Dopamine

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I have tried nicotine patches to help my mother with memory issues, after I saw a research study done on humans. The study indicated significant improvements in trial patents' cognition. Since I don't want to turn my mom into a guinea pig, I also used nicotine patches.

Unfortunately, I have run into two issues: (1) decrease in appetite; and (2) increase in heart rate.

I had concerns regarding the second issue, so I had researched it a bit - but it seems that cigarette users have higher incidents of heart problems. Obviously, cigarette is not nicotine, but my suspicion is that nicotine had adverse effects on heart.

To me, nicotine patches effect reminds me of beta agonists, such as ephedrine. I believe that beta agonists have been known to remodel heart chamber (e.g., enlarge it), which is not a good thing.

Well nicotine patches are designed for quitting smoking and chronic smokers will have a very high tolerance for nicotine. Nicotine patches have way more nicotine than non-smokers can handle... you have to work up to those dosages. Its like someone drinking 5 coffees at once without ever having drunk coffee before. It is no surprise that you experienced heart palpitations and a stress response. High doses of any stimulant will do the same thing.
 

Drareg

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Well nicotine patches are designed for quitting smoking and chronic smokers will have a very high tolerance for nicotine. Nicotine patches have way more nicotine than non-smokers can handle... you have to work up to those dosages. Its like someone drinking 5 coffees at once without ever having drunk coffee before. It is no surprise that you experienced heart palpitations and a stress response. High doses of any stimulant will do the same thing.

He did not say how much he gave her. Your making a huge leap in logic with 5 cups of coffee analogy ,coffee can be taking with a huge amount of sugar and milk because it's food and tastes nice.
 

David Chung

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Well nicotine patches are designed for quitting smoking and chronic smokers will have a very high tolerance for nicotine. Nicotine patches have way more nicotine than non-smokers can handle... you have to work up to those dosages. Its like someone drinking 5 coffees at once without ever having drunk coffee before. It is no surprise that you experienced heart palpitations and a stress response. High doses of any stimulant will do the same thing.

That is a good point. The dosage I used was based on the study I mentioned, which I believe was 15 mg. Of course, it may have been necessary to work my way up.

From what I read, I think nicotine stimulates two general types of neurotransmitter receptors. One is dopamine type I receptor, which leads to relaxation. Then, there is the acetylcholine receptors. In high doses, nicotine's effect is supposed to be mostly sedative (dominated by the dopamine receptor activation), while in lower concentration, its effect is sedative. Perhaps, I have that mixed up ...
 

David Chung

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I just wanted to note that although there are lots of studies linking heart problems and cigarettes, I have not been able to find any study that directly links nicotine to heart problems.
 

Drareg

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I just wanted to note that although there are lots of studies linking heart problems and cigarettes, I have not been able to find any study that directly links nicotine to heart problems.

Has any diagnosis been made on her condition?
Is it just mild memory impairment?
Ray Peat has some better recommendations than nicotine for memory that won't decrease appetite and rapidly raise heart rate.
 

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