My Methylation Findings

[kineticz]

Hi all been a while since my methylation thread got locked.

I found out that I have hemochromatosis, but it gets worse, I not only retain iron, I had low stomach acid so I wasn't absorbing iron either! With my family history of kidney disease you can understand my life's struggle. A sluggish liver and anemia cause high phosphates which leach calcium in the bone.

I wanted to say that you CAN become iron deficient if you are vitamin B2 deficient. This becomes low under high phoshorus and high oxidative stress/low glutathione redox.

So calcium IS needed to strengthen bone but the issue is while it might lower PTH, phosphate clearance and still be poor and this is driven by anemia and low stomach acid. Low stomach acid causes high lactic acid and this further demineralises bone to buffer the pH.

The reason magnesium helps therefore in high amounts is because it decalcifies your mitochondria which lowers lactic acid and serum phosphates. You then increase your calcium intake to rebuild your bone marrow.

The methylation posts continue to aid my health, I would give one word of warning which I give in my methylation, be very careful with methyl b12 as they are quick to push it on Freddd's forum but methyl b12 if you are malnourished is very bad, it lowers potassium, ceruloplasmin, b2, b6 - I have felt first hand the congestive heart problems with low potassium, and later I found out that low B2 causes low stomach acid so you become iron deficient! B12 is also very taxxing on your lipid membranes so it can alter your brain chemistry if you are low on oils and fats.

Malnutrition, edema and anemia are NOT pleasant so proceed carefully. A tank in liver function with heavy handedness of B12 causes high serum phosphates and brittle bones which is heavily damaging to the kidneys and further promotes anemia since bone marrow is where blood is made.

So Ray is right to urge against overmethylating with B12 and to use niacinamide. Potassium produces the necessary carbon dioxide to demethylate and then you take calcium to improve red cell production.

All the best
Dan
UK

 

[mujuro]

I can empathize. Well, partially. I didn't experience the dire issues you did but when I first used methyl-B12 and methylfolate back in December 2013, I had extremely alarming cardiac symptoms.

I was in a pool at the time fooling around and suddenly I was beset by the worst heart palpitations in my life. They stopped me in my tracks. They were intense, very forceful, downright painful. I actually paused and told a friend to get their phone and prepare to dial emergency. I knew it was potassium depletion. This was about 24 hours or so after my very first supplement containing about 400mcg methylfolate and 1000mcg methyl-B12. The palpitations subsided after about 20 seconds. I rushed inside and grabbed a potassium supplement. It was summer at the time, and I was leaning down and depleting electrolytes more than I should have, so other factors came together to put me into a low-potassium state.

Never before and never since have I experienced such a sobering cardiac misbehavior. I was more reckless then, and definitely didn't respect the "start as small as you can" advice so common in methylation circles.

Scary stuff.

 

[InChristAlone]

It's been a while Dan! How are you doing?? Thanks for the warning on methyl b vitamins. I agree. Be very careful!! Low potassium does suck.

 

[lollipop]

Hi all been a while since my methylation thread got locked.

I found out that I have hemochromatosis, but it gets worse, I not only retain iron, I had low stomach acid so I wasn't absorbing iron either! With my family history of kidney disease you can understand my life's struggle. A sluggish liver and anemia cause high phosphates which leach calcium in the bone.

I wanted to say that you CAN become iron deficient if you are vitamin B2 deficient. This becomes low under high phoshorus and high oxidative stress/low glutathione redox.

So calcium IS needed to strengthen bone but the issue is while it might lower PTH, phosphate clearance and still be poor and this is driven by anemia and low stomach acid. Low stomach acid causes high lactic acid and this further demineralises bone to buffer the pH.

The reason magnesium helps therefore in high amounts is because it decalcifies your mitochondria which lowers lactic acid and serum phosphates. You then increase your calcium intake to rebuild your bone marrow.

The methylation posts continue to aid my health, I would give one word of warning which I give in my methylation, be very careful with methyl b12 as they are quick to push it on Freddd's forum but methyl b12 if you are malnourished is very bad, it lowers potassium, ceruloplasmin, b2, b6 - I have felt first hand the congestive heart problems with low potassium, and later I found out that low B2 causes low stomach acid so you become iron deficient! B12 is also very taxxing on your lipid membranes so it can alter your brain chemistry if you are low on oils and fats.

Malnutrition, edema and anemia are NOT pleasant so proceed carefully. A tank in liver function with heavy handedness of B12 causes high serum phosphates and brittle bones which is heavily damaging to the kidneys and further promotes anemia since bone marrow is where blood is made.

So Ray is right to urge against overmethylating with B12 and to use niacinamide. Potassium produces the necessary carbon dioxide to demethylate and then you take calcium to improve red cell production.

All the best
Dan
UK

Informative thread. Thank you.

 

[kineticz]

It's been a while Dan! How are you doing?? Thanks for the warning on methyl b vitamins. I agree. Be very careful!! Low potassium does suck.

After discovering the vast importance of riboflavin I am doing very well, the only problem is I dread sleep - instead of refilling pregnenolone and undergoing protein repair, my liver becomes sluggish and I seem to become cortisol toxic which overstimulates muscle breakdown and P450 pathways.

I have low testosterone so it's mainly getting out of that which is slowing me now. This is about diet and stress management. I am self employed and as above have hemochromatosis so very difficult getting the iron onto ceruloplasmin safely to raise ATP and metabolism in the gut for downstream sex hormones.

But I am definitely not among the worse patients on here. So I am grateful for that and the ability to contribute.

Thanks
Dan

 

[whodathunkit]

I got a huge lot of benefit from methylB12 and methylfolate. Methylcobalamin injections and Freddd's protocol from PR literally changed my life. I was one of those who got a lot of benefit out of going big doses very quickly. For at least six months I was injecting like 5mg mB12 per day, and taking 40mg methylfolate. These days I inject about 0.3mg mB12 a couple times per week, and take around 5mg methylfolate per week, sublingual. My energy levels improved astonishingly from doing Freddd, to the point where I've been able to change almost everything about my life, approaching the lifestyle a person without energy dysfunction has.

That said, it's definitely not for everyone. When I started Freddd I wasn't mineral deficient at all, and not even terribly vitamin deficient, so that likely worked in my favor. If I'd started Freddd before I'd gone through my re-mineralization phase I probably would have had a very hard time. As it was I had some minor potassium deficiency symptoms like fatigue (no heart palps) but that was it. I did find that various B vitamins would hold up my progress if not supplemented in sufficient amounts.

very difficult getting the iron onto ceruloplasmin safely to raise ATP and metabolism in the gut

I'm interested in hearing more about how you're going about fixing this, if you don't mind sharing. I got a lot of info out of that B2 thread over at PR but not sure exactly what other direction to head in to get my iron (and probably stored iron in the liver) to where it needs to go. I've been chronically anemic for years, and while there are life circumstances that explain that, evidence also points to poor iron transport.

 

[Such_Saturation]

12 is also very taxxing on your lipid membranes so it can alter your brain chemistry if you are low on oils and fats.

And this is where krill oil and quantum tunneling comes in, right?

 

[kineticz]

I got a huge lot of benefit from methylB12 and methylfolate. Methylcobalamin injections and Freddd's protocol from PR literally changed my life. I was one of those who got a lot of benefit out of going big doses very quickly. For at least six months I was injecting like 5mg mB12 per day, and taking 40mg methylfolate. These days I inject about 0.3mg mB12 a couple times per week, and take around 5mg methylfolate per week, sublingual. My energy levels improved astonishingly from doing Freddd, to the point where I've been able to change almost everything about my life, approaching the lifestyle a person without energy dysfunction has.

That said, it's definitely not for everyone. When I started Freddd I wasn't mineral deficient at all, and not even terribly vitamin deficient, so that likely worked in my favor. If I'd started Freddd before I'd gone through my re-mineralization phase I probably would have had a very hard time. As it was I had some minor potassium deficiency symptoms like fatigue (no heart palps) but that was it. I did find that various B vitamins would hold up my progress if not supplemented in sufficient amounts.
.

Thanks for sharing your success with the methyl b vitamins.

Did you experience any signs of glutathione depletion by remethylating your proteins away from it? Did you take P5P and/or B2? Any histamine reactions?

I'm interested in hearing more about how you're going about fixing this, if you don't mind sharing. I got a lot of info out of that B2 thread over at PR but not sure exactly what other direction to head in to get my iron (and probably stored iron in the liver) to where it needs to go. I've been chronically anemic for years, and while there are life circumstances that explain that, evidence also points to poor iron transport

If you didn't experience any weaknesses from high dose B12 then it's difficult to see how you have trouble with anemia. Can you explain the symptoms and outcomes that give this concern?

Regarding the gut the issue there is active B6 is needed to shuttle cysteine into co enzyme A, the richer your blood with ATP and cardiac output, the higher your adrenal and gonad output.

Ceruloplasmin is promoted by ATP in the liver so fatty deposits could explain your concerns but high dose B12 usually tells you what's going on and you seem to be going great on it. You need a very specific ratio of copper to iron to B2 to liver to bone health to get optimal results. It's half life is improved by Estradiol.

 

[kineticz]

And this is where krill oil and quantum tunneling comes in, right?

Having hemochromatosis and kidney problems I have trouble producing phosphatadylserine and choline so I reserve judgement on the oils debate. My good experiences with hemp oil could have been due to the vitamin-e content protecting me from iron toxicity. I am not likely to look into this area further.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Having hemochromatosis and kidney problems I have trouble producing phosphatadylserine and choline so I reserve judgement on the oils debate. My good experiences with hemp oil could have been due to the vitamin-e content protecting me from iron toxicity. I am not likely to look into this area further.

Will you clarify this on all the old threads?

 

[kineticz]

Furthermore with sluggish liver and glucose retention due to highly acidic blood pH, any membranes are likely to need detoxification using nicotinic acid, exercise and maybe activated charcoal.

 

[kineticz]

Will you clarify this on all the old threads?

I logged back in here to clarify it today, happy to delete it from the undermethylation thread if it's re-opened.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I logged back in here to clarify it today, happy to delete it from the undermethylation thread if it's re-opened.

You know I have a friend with advanced Crohn's and he swears by cannabis oil. Could be immunosuppression, though.

 

[kineticz]

You know I have a friend with advanced Crohn's and he swears by cannabis oil. Could be immunosuppression, though.

You're very enlightened. Immunosuppression from high cortisol can have this effect in me. It can make you think you have a handle on things.

One of the reasons I don't have refreshing sleep and always oversleep! I lay there thinking oversleeping is going to heal me. I get up late and feel really sluggish despite the high cortisol telling me I am doing great by oversleeping lol. I have no ability to get up because it's totally flatlining my morning adrenal output. By the end of the day I'm ready to take on the world and guess what, it's bed time.

 

[kineticz]

You know I have a friend with advanced Crohn's and he swears by cannabis oil. Could be immunosuppression, though.

On that front any tips for oversleeping? What do you think of an all nighter? lol

 

[Drareg]

You know I have a friend with advanced Crohn's and he swears by cannabis oil. Could be immunosuppression, though.

It could be pregnenolone also, if the recent research is anything to go by in relation to THC and pregnenolone

 

[Such_Saturation]

It could be pregnenolone also, if the recent research is anything to go by in relation to THC and pregnenolone

He says it has no active principle.

 

[InChristAlone]

On that front any tips for oversleeping? What do you think of an all nighter? lol

Need to follow a circadian rhythm. Go to bed by 11pm, get up by at least 8. Get sunlight in the morning. Block blue light at night.

 

[Such_Saturation]

You're very enlightened. Immunosuppression from high cortisol can have this effect in me. It can make you think you have a handle on things.

One of the reasons I don't have refreshing sleep and always oversleep! I lay there thinking oversleeping is going to heal me. I get up late and feel really sluggish despite the high cortisol telling me I am doing great by oversleeping lol. I have no ability to get up because it's totally flatlining my morning adrenal output. By the end of the day I'm ready to take on the world and guess what, it's bed time.

Yes I'm like that. You can get a quicker bump in ACTH (or whatever it is) with caffeine by the bedside. I find that thyroid can't really do this job unless you're willing to surrender your natural production and live and die by the supplement. I think you can shift back like Janelle says, but the simple fact is that if you feel great in the morning, you will have to give up that epic boost that we get in the evening. And I don't know any night people that are ready to do that. We love the evening and just the sight of how morning people are after lunch is enough of a turnoff.

 

[Such_Saturation]

You're very enlightened