Many Mentally Ill Have Histamine-methylation Ratio Imbalance

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Ben

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Gelatin should be eaten with muscle meat to balance the harmful amino acids, which are exactly the ones that are liberated from a person's muscle when he or she is under stress, and leads to an intensification to the stress response.

I think I actually have an excess of methyl groups, if anything. I had slightly low absolute basophils (associated with histamine) on a blood test, and I share some symptom similarities with overmethylators. One simple symptom is sensitivity to chemicals like air fresheners but lack of allergies. Here is something interesting the site I mentioned in the OP stated:

The generalization that perfume and other chemical sensitivities are associated with overmethylation, low blood histamine, and elevated norepinephaine... is exactly that...a general rule with many exceptions. However, the correlation seems to be above 90 percent in the case of perfume sensitivity. Whenever a patient enters our clinic wearing a mask to filter out inhalant chemicals, we immediately suspect the overmethylation syndrome. The chemical testing usually confirms this diagnosis, but there definitely are a few persons who have severe perfume sensitivity for other reasons. We've evaluated about 19,000 persons, including about 1500 with anxiety disorder or panic disorder. Hundreds of these patients reported sensitivity to perfumes. Nearly 90 percent of the perfume-sensitive group were overmethylated, and reported multiple chemical and food sensitivities. usually in the absence of seasonal inhalant allergies. Perfume sensitivity is a classic symptom of these high nonepinephaine persons, who usually respond beautifully to folate/B-12 therapy [1 Dec -03]

Someone suggested that my problems with concentration and short term memory are due to low norepinephrine, yet this suggests that I have an excess. Indeed, these people have a high incidence of ADHD.

Folate or B12 can use up my methyl groups. Beef liver should be good for overmethylators since it contains plenty of B-vitamins. Choline and histidine are easily tolerable for overmethylated people, two negative nutrients in beef liver.

I'm going to try glycine to activate GABA as well as GABA itself. Overmethylators respond well to benzodiazepines, which are GABAergic agents, and poorly to SSRI's and antihistamines. Maybe I'll also order vitamin B12, I was worried that the cyanide group would have a negative effect. I guess it won't, since a little cyanide uncouples mitochondria and it has been mentioned on Peatarian. Folate, I'm really not sure about, since RP said it's often impure.
 
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Ben

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Oh yeah, and it's funny because vitamin B12 was the first vitamin I ever took, which was in grade school. I noticed that I felt good from it, so maybe I had an overmethylation problem even back then.
 
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Kray

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Ben said:
Gelatin should be eaten with muscle meat to balance the harmful amino acids, which are exactly the ones that are liberated from a person's muscle when he or she is under stress, and leads to an intensification to the stress response.

I think I actually have an excess of methyl groups, if anything. I had slightly low absolute basophils (associated with histamine) on a blood test, and I share some symptom similarities with overmethylators. One simple symptom is sensitivity to chemicals like air fresheners but lack of allergies. Here is something interesting the site I mentioned in the OP stated:

The generalization that perfume and other chemical sensitivities are associated with overmethylation, low blood histamine, and elevated norepinephaine... is exactly that...a general rule with many exceptions. However, the correlation seems to be above 90 percent in the case of perfume sensitivity. Whenever a patient enters our clinic wearing a mask to filter out inhalant chemicals, we immediately suspect the overmethylation syndrome. The chemical testing usually confirms this diagnosis, but there definitely are a few persons who have severe perfume sensitivity for other reasons. We've evaluated about 19,000 persons, including about 1500 with anxiety disorder or panic disorder. Hundreds of these patients reported sensitivity to perfumes. Nearly 90 percent of the perfume-sensitive group were overmethylated, and reported multiple chemical and food sensitivities. usually in the absence of seasonal inhalant allergies. Perfume sensitivity is a classic symptom of these high nonepinephaine persons, who usually respond beautifully to folate/B-12 therapy [1 Dec -03]

Someone suggested that my problems with concentration and short term memory are due to low norepinephrine, yet this suggests that I have an excess. Indeed, these people have a high incidence of ADHD.

Folate or B12 can use up my methyl groups. Beef liver should be good for overmethylators since it contains plenty of B-vitamins. Choline and histidine are easily tolerable for overmethylated people, two negative nutrients in beef liver.

I'm going to try glycine to activate GABA as well as GABA itself. Overmethylators respond well to benzodiazepines, which are GABAergic agents, and poorly to SSRI's and antihistamines. Maybe I'll also order vitamin B12, I was worried that the cyanide group would have a negative effect. I guess it won't, since a little cyanide uncouples mitochondria and it has been mentioned on Peatarian. Folate, I'm really not sure about, since RP said it's often impure.

Interesting stuff! I have no idea where I am in the methylation category, but the GABA sounds like a great idea. I was just checking out foods high in glycine & GABA-- many of the Peat foods are high in glycine, including dairy and gelatin powder. As for GABA-- not so many Peat foods high in that, so I think I'll try the GABA supplement. Thanks for the tip! It sounds like a great supplement for balance.

How does one react poorly to antihistamines? I recently did almost a month on Benadryl for dermatitis/itching. I don't know that I ever really felt myself while taking them. Sometimes at night, even with a dose that should have made me sleepy, I would have trouble getting to sleep, or wake up in the night with a wired feeling. I also had a strange sudden increase in eye floaters that scared me into the optometrist's office. Afterward, I found some questionable connection between antihistamine side effects and the eye.
 
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docall18

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I have read low thyroid causes overmethylation and low histamine.
 
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Kray

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docall18 said:
I have read low thyroid causes overmethylation and low histamine.

That makes sense, too!
 
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I never have any basophils in my blood as far as the count test can sense. My copper is 86 micrograms per deciliter. Am I an overmethylator?
 
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Such_Saturation said:
I never have any basophils in my blood as far as the count test can sense. My copper is 86 micrograms per deciliter. Am I an overmethylator?
I don't think so. Having low basophils is a good thing, and clearly your copper isn't high. Symptoms are also important to consider. I have taken massive amounts of copper with zinc in the past as a supplement for exercise performance, and it would be good if I got my blood level checked. I do have quite a few symptoms of overmethylation, so it's reasonable to get them checked. I don't really see the point though, I could just begin ridding myself of methyl groups and see how I react.

docall18 said:
I have read low thyroid causes overmethylation and low histamine.
They are likely associated, since overmethylators get adverse effects to estrogen and serotonergic agents and have a low glucose oxidation rate. However, thyroid can also control the excessive glycolysis that occurs in histadelia and reduce histamine levels, also helping their condition. It would be interesting if you posted the source.
 
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overkees

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I found out about this topic quite some time ago. Then forget what it was called and lost it. A little while back I found the basics of the theory but no good articles. Reading the google results of histadelic were only more confusing.

I still am rather confused about this theory.
I don't remember having dry eyes, I always did have some problems with dry mouths and such which resulted in a not so good dental hygiene. Today I seem to produce much more saliva.
I used to be very paranoid in my high school years, this is not the case anymore. Sometimes the paranoia comes slightly back in situations where I'm not comfortable about alot of things.
Sweating was very tough for me, it is a lot easier nowadays.
Used to have dilated pupils.
Very hard time focusing on every day jobs, hyperfocus in stupid things that didn't matter. Typical ADHD patterns.
Heart beat below 50-60. Nowadays 60-70 (slight progress).
Low amount of bowel movements in past. Nowadays up to twice a day.
Always had very tense upper leg muscles. Nowadays they are quite relaxed.
Allergies, always was a bit allergic. Decreased slightly now I'm older.

So it seems like I was overmethylating in the past for sure. But nowadays it seems I have a mix of both and can't totally make up my mind about it. Allergies indicate high histamine, but a lot of other symptoms still point to overmethylation.

Any ideas?
 
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Ben

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I don't think you have a problem with an imbalance at this point. It appears that you have corrected it somewhat, intentionally or unintentionally. I think that you would benefit from thyroid supplementation, so get a blood test done.

However, an imbalance is still possible. More important questions to determine your histamine-methylation status:

How often do you get headaches?
Do you have trouble tolerating air fresheners and perfumes?
How much do you sleep?
How often do you get common colds, and etc?
Do you have hyperactivity?
 
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overkees

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Used to have alot of headaches, still come in episodes.
Don't tolerate perfumes, they are very invasive to me.
I tend to sleep alot, it now averages on 9-10 hours. I used to sleep up to 17 hours a couple of years ago. Averaged on 14 hours then.
I don't get colds, for over 3 years now since my last cold. Used to have them when younger, though.
Some hyperactivity, it's better now.
 
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khan

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I have ordered Nutrisorb B12 (hydroxycobolamin) supplement. Can someone please tell what is the optimum dose? On the bottle its written (1 drop) per day. I am interested in knowing the advise of members here.
 
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Ben

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I don't think anyone knows what the "optimum" dose is. Vitamin B12 is definitely best-absorbed when it's held under the tongue so the blood vessels absorb it (sublingual administration).
 
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pone

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Ben said:
There is a very significant physiological balance between histamine and methylation. Methyl groups bind to and excrete with histamine, so if there's too much of one, the other gets depleted. Both are healthy to minimize, and RP has stated this. However, for some people restoring balance is more of a priority. Most schizophrenics, for example, have either high histamine, high methylation, or pyroluria (low zinc and vitamin B6), and treating those abnormalities leads to improvements in their symptoms. CO2 and gelatin reduce histamine, serotonin, and methylation, but they don't shift balances. Correcting an imbalance is probably a faster, more effective way to treat diseases associated with the imbalance, and I don't think serious cases can be fully treated with general health habits, at least not with the amount of technology available today.

Ben do you have a good methylation diagram showing the histamine metabolism?

I have contradictory results and maybe you have a theory about that? I have "histamine determination, blood" of 28, which by Walsh's standards makes me low histamine and an "overmethylated". But all of my other tests say undermethylator:

1) My genes are heterozygous for 677T, and that population is average 30% undermethylated

2) I did an explicit methionine challenge and failed. I fasted and homocysteine was a normal 8 in morning. I took 2.5 grams of methionine and waited four hours while extending the fast. After four hours my homocysteine is very high at 16. That unambiguously shows I do not methylate quickly. And I tend to test high on homocysteine (>10), further confirming that.

3) I tend toward obsessiveness, perfection, and high achievement, all traits that Walsh associates with undermethylation.

Any ideas on what could be causing this strange result? Perhaps I have an additional defect in my histamine pathway?
 
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Ben

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pone said:
Ben do you have a good methylation diagram showing the histamine metabolism?

I have contradictory results and maybe you have a theory about that? I have "histamine determination, blood" of 28, which by Walsh's standards makes me low histamine and an "overmethylated". But all of my other tests say undermethylator:

1) My genes are heterozygous for 677T, and that population is average 30% undermethylated

2) I did an explicit methionine challenge and failed. I fasted and homocysteine was a normal 8 in morning. I took 2.5 grams of methionine and waited four hours while extending the fast. After four hours my homocysteine is very high at 16. That unambiguously shows I do not methylate quickly. And I tend to test high on homocysteine (>10), further confirming that.

3) I tend toward obsessiveness, perfection, and high achievement, all traits that Walsh associates with undermethylation.

Any ideas on what could be causing this strange result? Perhaps I have an additional defect in my histamine pathway?
It is better to determine what works for you than what your physiology is. It can get very complicated, sometimes impossibly complicated.

How do you respond to Benadryl?

Would you consider trying Cyproheptadine, Tianeptine, and Datura to help determine your issue?

What works better for you, high protein or high sugar diet?

What is your physical build?
 

pone

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Ben said:
pone said:
Ben do you have a good methylation diagram showing the histamine metabolism?

I have contradictory results and maybe you have a theory about that? I have "histamine determination, blood" of 28, which by Walsh's standards makes me low histamine and an "overmethylated". But all of my other tests say undermethylator:

1) My genes are heterozygous for 677T, and that population is average 30% undermethylated

2) I did an explicit methionine challenge and failed. I fasted and homocysteine was a normal 8 in morning. I took 2.5 grams of methionine and waited four hours while extending the fast. After four hours my homocysteine is very high at 16. That unambiguously shows I do not methylate quickly. And I tend to test high on homocysteine (>10), further confirming that.

3) I tend toward obsessiveness, perfection, and high achievement, all traits that Walsh associates with undermethylation.

Any ideas on what could be causing this strange result? Perhaps I have an additional defect in my histamine pathway?
It is better to determine what works for you than what your physiology is. It can get very complicated, sometimes impossibly complicated.

How do you respond to Benadryl?

Would you consider trying Cyproheptadine, Tianeptine, and Datura to help determine your issue?

What works better for you, high protein or high sugar diet?

What is your physical build?

Maybe you can coach me through expected responses and then I'll round some of these up.

What are expected responses to Benadryl? I have low histamine so why would I want to take an anti-histamine? Historically, anti-histamines have cleared my nose and then left me very sleepy. I get quick rebound effect and get more clogged up then before the anti-histamine. Decongestants that have no anti-histamine tend to work well for me, by contrast.

Cyproheptadine is another antihistamine? What is value of taking that in addition to Benadryl?

Tianeptine is an anti-depressant, and I wouldn't be crazy about taking that unless there was some unique diagnostic value.

Datura is a hallucinogen? What is point of that one?

I am prediabetic and tend to do well on moderate protein, high saturated and monounsaturated fat. I am now following Peat and try to get my sugars from fruits, and most of the non-starchy carbs I eat are from vegetables.

Physical build is slim, 6'00" and 170 lbs.
 

Waynish

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What are your other recommendations for Histadelics to try? The high sex drive and more allergic correlations made me curious - sounds like me. The only time I've been tested for vitamin levels I was higher than recommend range for b12 (I was not supposed with anything at the time).
 

Astolfo

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High copper is being associated with overmethylation while I heard that high 'free' copper can actually stop methylation cycle by creating oxidative stress. If there is a high demand for glutathione, body stops methylation cycle to provide more glutathione from cysteine.

This is only an assumption though, I hope someone comes and prove or disprove what i said above.
 

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