Does folate deficiency affect vagus nerve function?

[Ippodrom47]

My folate is low at 2.9 (range 3.0-17.0). I've been dealing with terrible reactions to every kind of inflammation, be it arsenic toxicity from rice, too much iron, gastritis flare-ups, vitamin A/carotene, oxalates, etc. I can't even go out when air pollution is high. It seems my body is bad at detoxing itself, and I get symptoms like brain fog, debilitating fatigue, mood swings, vertigo, anxiety, etc. My bloodwork is mostly okay except folate (b12 is fine, no anemia). As I understand it, folate is crucial for nerve function, so does it stand to reason that upping my folate level will help resolve those issues? I have a single mthfr mutation, and react badly to all methyl supplements.

 

[methylenewhite]

MTHFR tested? Homocysteine?

 

[Ippodrom47]

MTHFR single C677T, I didn't check homocysteine.

 

[Ippodrom47]

Can MTHFR (heterozygous) and low folate cause bad reaction to high animal protein foods? My reasoning is as follows: low folate usually means higher levels of homocysteine circulating in the blood. Animal proteins come with high methionine, which is converted to homocysteine but can't then be converted properly back to methionine and other stuff, leading to homocysteine build up, which is quite toxic. Plant proteins are better tolerated, especially lentils and legumes, which pack a nice dose of folate as well. Does it all make sense?

 

[Tim Lundeen]

If you react badly to methyl supplements, that means you are running high levels of methyl groups, despite your slower MTHFR genetics: you are an "overmethylator" right now.

This can happen because your body is not able to use the methyl groups to make creatine, because those enzymes are blocked or poisoned, causing the methyl groups to "back up" to high levels. (Normally, a very high percentage of methyl groups are used to make creatine.) It looks like ammonia and aldehydes can block this pathway.

Some things that might help:
* niacinamide can mop up excess methyl groups; maybe in the range of 50-250mg/day
* don't take vitamin c, because it blocks the clearance of aldehydes
* eat a low aldehyde, low alcohol diet--no fermented food, no bread or other yeast products
* eat enough protein to keep ammonia levels low

 

[artist]

Check out Chris Masterjohn’s article about B2 as the real key to folate issues/methylation. Folate and B12 make me depressive and feel horrible almost instantly, but B2 makes me so resilient and “normal” in spite of my chemical sensitivities due to my MCAS. B2 might help you.

 

[Ippodrom47]

Check out Chris Masterjohn’s article about B2 as the real key to folate issues/methylation. Folate and B12 make me depressive and feel horrible almost instantly, but B2 makes me so resilient and “normal” in spite of my chemical sensitivities due to my MCAS. B2 might help you.

Thanks! Do you notice the same effect from legumes/greens (high folate) or red meat/fish (high B12)?

 

[youngsinatra]

If you don‘t consume leafy greens or legumes daily, you need a source of supplemental folate for optimal levels. Other sources with folate include liver, but you would need to eat 3-4 oz per day to get the RDA, which sets you up to failure because of it‘s high vitamin A content.

If you have MTHFR you need to be even more careful and should try to hit 1-2x the RDA for folate in my opinion.

If you have bad reactions to methylfolate or methyl-B12, then you deal with transient temporary overmethylation, because the system needs to re-arrange itself after being deprived of essential nutrients for methylation and fixing the deficiency kick-starts the methylation cycle again.

Initially taking higher amounts of supplemental glycine (10-30g) buffers the excess of supplied methyl groups. In the beginning I had horrible panic attacks and irritability from methyl-folate and B12, but I was definitely deficient, so I took 10g of glycine 2-3 times a day and it resolved all bad symptoms of (temporary) overmethylation.

You can get liquid methylfolate and B12 drops to slowly build up the dose to your needs.

If you have poorly functioning methylation, everything becomes a problem, especially your liver‘s detoxification and gallbladder function.

I‘d recommend starting with pre-loading on glycine for a few days / 1 week to ensure adequate methyl buffering capacity before taking B9/B12. Then I think it is an easy ride to introduce these methyl B vitamins.

Good luck!

Edit: I recommend taking methylfolate and methyl-B12 in a 1:1 ratio in terms of dosage.

 

[youngsinatra]

Regarding folate - glycine. Folate deficiency causes glycine wasting.

View: https://youtu.be/Pb-_o8dBwbI

 

[Bluebell]

thanks for this helpful info @youngsinatra. I also have low folate, with similar blood test results to Ippodrom47. I don't tolerate folate supplements. (I don't do well on methyl b12 either, it seems to irritate my nerves. But my B12 blood levels are OK, so up until now I've just avoided supplementing it.)

What I don't understand though is that I am intolerant to every kind of folate supplement not just methyl ones. I've tried all of these as supplements, and even the smallest bit makes me unwell, which gets worse the more I try to take them. It seems so strange to me, to have this happen when my blood folate levels are low.
These are the supplements I've tried:
methylfolate
folic acid
'natural' folate from lemons (as a pill)
folinic acid

Do you have any ideas as to why this might be? I'm wondering if there's anything else I can do, beyond taking glycine (and maybe b2) and then slowly adding methyl folate and b12 in 1:1 ratio.

Did you feel much better once you started successfully supplementing folate?

 

[youngsinatra]

thanks for this helpful info @youngsinatra. I also have low folate, with similar blood test results to Ippodrom47. I don't tolerate folate supplements. (I don't do well on methyl b12 either, it seems to irritate my nerves. But my B12 blood levels are OK, so up until now I've just avoided supplementing it.)

What I don't understand though is that I am intolerant to every kind of folate supplement not just methyl ones. I've tried all of these as supplements, and even the smallest bit makes me unwell, which gets worse the more I try to take them. It seems so strange to me, to have this happen when my blood folate levels are low.
These are the supplements I've tried:
methylfolate
folic acid
'natural' folate from lemons (as a pill)
folinic acid

Do you have any ideas as to why this might be? I'm wondering if there's anything else I can do, beyond taking glycine (and maybe b2) and then slowly adding methyl folate and b12 in 1:1 ratio.

Did you feel much better once you started successfully supplementing folate?

Folate definitely made a big difference in my mood, energy and overall wellbeing.

I think all folate forms ultimately get converted to methylfolate and increase methylation, thus causing the somewhat same effects.

I had the same issues with folinic acid before. Glycine helps big time!

B2 is definitely important for normalizing the function of semi-defective MTHFR, but good intake of folate is nonetheless necessary.
Supplementing with a bit of R5P could help.

 

[youngsinatra]

A well rounded B complex like Thorne B Complex Basic could help. I am somewhat cautious about using B Complexes because of the containing B6. My B6 became high from just 20mg of P5P.

 

[Bluebell]

Folate definitely made a big difference in my mood, energy and overall wellbeing.

I think all folate forms ultimately get converted to methylfolate and increase methylation, thus causing the somewhat same effects.

I had the same issues with folinic acid before. Glycine helps big time!

B2 is definitely important for normalizing the function of semi-defective MTHFR, but good intake of folate is nonetheless necessary.
Supplementing with a bit of R5P could help.

Thanks a lot youngsinatra, that's very encouraging. That makes sense about all forms converting to methylfolate.

I'm going to try glycine then, and see how it goes. The only problem I've had in the past with glycine is it seems to feed candida a bit, but hopefully if I take it with meals it won't be a problem.

 

[youngsinatra]

Thanks a lot youngsinatra, that's very encouraging. That makes sense about all forms converting to methylfolate.

I'm going to try glycine then, and see how it goes. The only problem I've had in the past with glycine is it seems to feed candida a bit, but hopefully if I take it with meals it won't be a problem.

I can recommend getting the pure powder and dissolving it in a small amount of hot water. It will completely dissolve and seems easier on the stomach.

The same is true for creatine, for example. It also dissolves in hot water and avoids the stomach upset that some experience.

 

[Bluebell]

I can recommend getting the pure powder and dissolving it in a small amount of hot water. It will completely dissolve and seems easier on the stomach.

The same is true for creatine, for example. It also dissolves in hot water and avoids the stomach upset that some experience.

Thank you, I do have some powder. The weird thing is though, it's more like it feeds systemic candida from the bloodstream, rather than in the stomach. I haven't tried glycine for some years though, so I hope it won't do that this time.

 

[Bluebell]

A well rounded B complex like Thorne B Complex Basic could help. I am somewhat cautious about using B Complexes because of the containing B6. My B6 became high from just 20mg of P5P.

I'd like to try a good B complex but I've had problems tolerating them due to the folate/b12, and also the very high levels of B2 (small amounts of B2 I do well on though). So in the past I've tended to just take small amounts of b1, 2, 3, 5, 6, biotin separately, in the forms I like, when I want to supplement Bs.

Also I did have a phase of going quite high on fat soluble B1, which I think can lower folate levels. Not doing that at the moment.

Anyway I suppose I should take the other Bs, while trying to slowly start supplementing folate/b12. Though I do find it a shot in the dark - I know the different Bs affect each other's levels, but really do not know the relative amounts of each I should be taking. "High in all" doesn't work for me as I tend to get sick from that.

 

[youngsinatra]

I'd like to try a good B complex but I've had problems tolerating them due to the folate/b12, and also the very high levels of B2 (small amounts of B2 I do well on though). So in the past I've tended to just take small amounts of b1, 2, 3, 5, 6, biotin separately, in the forms I like, when I want to supplement Bs.

Also I did have a phase of going quite high on fat soluble B1, which I think can lower folate levels. Not doing that at the moment.

Anyway I suppose I should take the other Bs, while trying to slowly start supplementing folate/b12. Though I do find it a shot in the dark - I know the different Bs affect each other's levels, but really do not know the relative amounts of each I should be taking. "High in all" doesn't work for me as I tend to get sick from that.

You should check your cronometer and see how you are doing in terms of your B vitamin status.

I tried many B-vitamins separately and only 1 or 2 had a significant effect. Probably the 1-2 I actually needed.

 

[Bluebell]

You should check your cronometer and see how you are doing in terms of your B vitamin status.

I tried many B-vitamins separately and only 1 or 2 had a significant effect. Probably the 1-2 I actually needed.

Thank you, I probably would benefit from that, and just top up on any that are lacking in diet (or switch up my diet!).

 

[HeyThere]

Any idea why I get really nauseous and feel extremely off whenever I try taking Biotin?

 

[youngsinatra]

Any idea why I get really nauseous and feel extremely off whenever I try taking Biotin?

Never felt good from biotin somehow. Even though my diet is theoretically deficient in it as I don‘t eat eggs and there are no other good sources for biotin actually. I think gut bacteria can potentially produce it internally.