Many Mentally Ill Have Histamine-methylation Ratio Imbalance

[Ben]

Some people questioned where I got some of my info from about this subject, so I decided to make a thread about it. Sometimes there's physiological imbalances instead of generalized poor health that result physical and mental disorders. Various mental disorders that can be caused by such imbalances are schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, autism, anxiety, depression, aggressive behavior, and even psychopathy.

There is a very significant physiological balance between histamine and methylation. Methyl groups bind to and excrete with histamine, so if there's too much of one, the other gets depleted. Both are healthy to minimize, and RP has stated this. However, for some people restoring balance is more of a priority. Most schizophrenics, for example, have either high histamine, high methylation, or pyroluria (low zinc and vitamin B6), and treating those abnormalities leads to improvements in their symptoms. CO2 and gelatin reduce histamine, serotonin, and methylation, but they don't shift balances. Correcting an imbalance is probably a faster, more effective way to treat diseases associated with the imbalance, and I don't think serious cases can be fully treated with general health habits, at least not with the amount of technology available today.

By the way, I have had no problem with this balance, and my histamine and basophils came out normal on a routine blood test. A letdown considering I would know how to improve my symptoms that way.

I chose to use the terms histadelic instead of under-methylator (used for high histamine people) and overmethylator instead of histapenic (used for low histamine people), because I think low histamine and methylation in themselves are positive, while high histamine and methylation are negative.

Histadelics have a high rate of metabolism and heat production, but also glycolysis (inefficient use of glucose). Thyroid treatment can reduce glycolysis greatly while increasing efficient use of energy. RP said he once ate a lot of calories, but a large portion went toward glycolysis. Then this pattern corrected itself when he started supplementing thyroid. Overmethylators have low glycolysis, but a low rate of healthy metabolism.

Histadelics have lower bodyfat than average, overmethylators have higher bodyfat than average.

For whatever reason, overmethylators are known to be intolerant to estrogen therapy and have severe PMS. My explanation is that estrogen makes their DNA methylation even worse, or their high serotonin makes them intolerant of estrogen. From Alternative Mental Health: "High histamine persons may do quite well on SSRI's, but low-histamine persons usually reactly very badly to SSRI's and are better candidates for benzodiazapines."

Histamine agonists that activate histamine in the CNS without causing drowsiness like monafinil, increase wakefulness, and histamine is the signal for a person to wake up in the morning. Histadelics sleep less than normal and overmethylators sleep more than normal. Stereotypical hypothyroidism is a person sleeping a lot.

Histadelics have a high sex drive and overmethylators have a low sex drive. Stereotypical hypothyroidism is hypogonadism and low libido.

Due to these several traits I named, histadelics are more likely to be seen as "stereotypically" hyperthyroid and overmethylators as "stereotypically" hypothyroid, but neither appear to be related to the amount of 'healthy' metabolism.

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/ ... /walsh.htm

I realized a long time ago that a lot of the physical symptoms that overmethylators get are very similar to the effects of anticholinergic drugs or chronic activation of the sympathetic nervous system. They have too many methyl groups, which metabolize a lot of histamine, but deactivate genes, and produce an excessive amount of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and adrenalin which lead to their symptoms.

On the other hand, histadelics get symptoms similar to parasympathetic nervous system activation. They have problems with aches, pains, frequent sickness, allergies, and high histaminergic and cholinergic arousal (which produces wakefulness, insomnia, and neuronal excitation and often leads to excitotoxicity and accelerated brain degeneration).

I used a list of possible side effects of anticholinergics to show how much these drugs have in common with these two conditions. My comments are in bold.

Possible effects of anticholinergics include:

Ataxia; loss of coordination
Decreased mucus production in the nose and throat; consequent dry, sore throat (histadelics have much mucous and tear production, parasympathetic activation causes it, while overmethylators are likely to get dry eyes)
Xerostomia or dry-mouth with possible acceleration of dental caries (histadelics have much saliva production, low incidence of cavities, while overmethylators have dry mouths with high incidence of cavities)
Cessation of perspiration; consequent decreased epidermal thermal dissipation leading to warm, blotchy, or red skin (see below)
Increased body temperature (histadelics sweat a lot, allows for removal of heat from the body, while histapenics sweat little)
Pupil dilation (mydriasis); consequent sensitivity to bright light (photophobia) (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and adrenalin dilate the pupils, while parasympathetic activators like acetylcholine and histamine constrict them.)
Loss of accommodation (loss of focusing ability, blurred vision – cycloplegia) (histadelics are organized overacheievers, overmethylators are disorganized underachievers and sometimes have a history of hyperactivity and learning disabilites.)
Double-vision (diplopia)
Increased heart rate (tachycardia)(the parasympathetic nervous system slows the HR)
Tendency to be easily startled (histadelics are outwardly calm with internal worry, while overmethylators are visibly anxious)
Urinary retention (why one needs to relax in order to pee)
Diminished bowel movement, sometimes ileus (decreases motility via the vagus nerve)(Parasympathetic nervous system speeds bowel movement. Also, histadelics have high incidence of stomach aches due to high stomach acid, caused by parasympathetic nervous system activation, while overmethylators have a lower-than-normal incidence)
Increased intraocular pressure; dangerous for people with narrow-angle glaucoma (increased blood flow to the brain and vital organs from sympathetic nervous system, less goes to the limbs, same thing happens with cold temperature. On the other hand, parasympathetic nervous system activation causes blood flow to limbs and stomach (for digestion) to increase. Those with blood pooling in their veins may benefit from an anticholinergic in this way. Taking enough caffeine for hypoglycemia or making yourself cold works too, but those are stressful. If I can obtain anything, I'll see if it will make my pooling blood and orthostatic hypotension go away and post back)
Shaking (Overmethylators have so-called "nervous legs" and probably shake as well since their anxiety is easily visible)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic

Symptoms of sexual arousal (like erections and body relaxation) are DEactivated by the sympathetic nervous system. Histadelics normally have a high libido, while overmethylators normally have a low libido. Anticholinergics and antihistamines often cause erectile dysfunction, but the anticholinergics don't always inhibit the sex drive because they increase dopamine's functioning without increasing serotonin, antagonizing prolactin (a hormone that drops libido after orgasm)

There are some other differences. Schizophrenic overmethylators are the ones that get hallucinations, not histadelics. Anticholinergics are known to cause hallucinations, but not negative symptoms. In fact, they sometimes produce euphoria, because acetylcholine's inhibition over dopamine is lifted. Histadelics are more likely to get "negative" symptoms of schizophrenia like mental blankness, related to low dopamine, which they have.

People that are pathological liars without a conscience or remorse, mean and nasty everyday, and had often tortured animals or set fires as children (basically psychopaths), were found to match a certain biochemical profile that includes high histamine and low copper. On the other hand, people who had good behavior normally, but did episodic violence with genuine remorse afterward were found to have a profile including low histamine, high copper. Charles Manson's copper level was among the 3 lowest tested of 150,000 people.

http://www.encognitive.com/node/6310

So obviously the histamine/methylation balance is important, and has not been read about by many people despite very promising research.

Sometimes methyl donors like methionine are supplemented to histadelics to treat their symptoms, just as L-histidine is sometimes supplemented to overmethylators, but there are better ways to treat these physiological abnormalities and improve overall health in the process. Here are a bunch of treatments that are used for these imbalances. Feel free to comment on these treatments or add new ones.

Methyl donors (avoid)-
Methyl-folate
Methyl-b12
Methionine
Selanomethionine (selenium and methionine)
SAMe
Trimethylglycine (TMG)
Dimethylglycine (DMG)
Inositol isn't a methyl donor, but it's used for histadelics because it apparently enhances serotonin function.
Possibly methylxanthines like caffeine or theobromine (in chocolate). But they also reduce histamine.

Histamine antagonists-
Anti-histamine drugs (like cyproheptadine, or benadryl if serotonin is safely low because benadryl is an SSRI)
Anti-cholinergic drugs (like atrophine or scopolamine found in belladonnas (deadly nightshades) and datura (thorn apple)
Histidine restriction (gelatin)
Allergic reaction avoidance
Copper (destroys histamine)
Vitamin C (detoxifies histamine)
Vitamin B5

RP said that the cholinergic drugs will be slowly phased out of existence because anti-cholinergic drugs are being recognized as potential treatments for Alzheimer's disease, and excessive acetylcholine is associated with excitotoxicity. People who still think acetylcholinerase inhibitors are good for the brain should check out the effects of organophosphate pesticides on brain development.

People with excessive acetylcholine can take a normal dose of an anti-cholinergic with little effect, but people with low acetylcholine can take a tiny dose and have a very unpleasant experience. Start with the lowest dose possible, and be careful about increasing the dosage. The best time to take them is when you can afford to give your brain a break and you're not doing anything that requires memorizing or concentration.

Most anti-histamines are anti-cholinergic as well when you increase the dosage.

Histamine agonists (avoid)-
Organophosphorus (used in chemical warfare and as pesticides, actually acetylcholinerase inhibitor)
Choline, DMAE, etc
Monafinil
Histidine
Excessive heat
Allergies
Stuff that makes your skin itchy
Possibly stimulating the vagus nerve, which some people say is relaxing

Methyl traps-
Cyano-b12 (contains cyanide, so don't know)
Hydroxy-b12 (expensive form of b12, but can scavenge nitric oxide and cyanide)
adensyl-b12
Folate (RP said it often contains impurities, though reliably strong)
Cysteine (anti-thyroid)
Methionine restriction (gelatin)
Glutathione

If you suspect you have excessive histamine, give antagonists a try. Cypro is one you can get by prescription in the US if you experience allergies. Or if you suspect you have excessive serotonin and methylation, give methyl traps a try. Choosing Peaty ways of doing this can improve your overall health in the process of correcting balance. The amount of benefits any "healthy" substance brings depends on the person's physiology.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Interesting Ben, but instead of fixing an another ratio issue that normally that body should sort out itself. Interfering with all kinds of agonists, antagonists, traps and what not, that not really solve the underlying problem. I will add a bit more to take into consideration when suffering these issues.

I would focus in fixing the metabolism and immunity. This will take care of the gut function and helps restore intestinal integrity and hopefully change the microbiome to normal (I miss intestinal integrity and mucosal DAO (di-amino oxidase) activity / expression). In all psychiatric disorders a changed microbiome and often increased intestinal permeability is found, signs of altered immunity and insufficient metabolism.

As said in the immunity thread, metabolism is important for immunity but not a factor that will likely fix it all (I keep repeating this, as people's experiences on this forum, like yours, seem to highly agree with that). Histamine is a mediator of the immune system (didn't read that either) and there's way way more involved but getting off topic then.

Unfortunately for those who like to comment on carrot salad. My personal experience is that I don't think it's capable of fixing all gut issues and certainly not changing the microbiome profoundly. In fact I don't use carrot salad anymore at all. It makes my digestive track inflamed and crappy.

 

[Filip1993]

@Suikerbuik, what do you use instead of the carrot?

 

[Kasper]

Well if your theory is correct, than I'm surely an overmethylator.

I sleep very long naturally. I can sleep at any moment of the day, even on ritalin I can take a nap at any moment. On modafinil, I can take a nap, but not at any moment.
I am a disorganized underachiever. I sweet very little. Dry eyes. I can't sit still.

But not everything you say is in line with me. My libido is I think quite high (I'm still young). My bodyfat has always been low to very low. Never had a cavity.

Also, I think your association of nervous legs with anxiety is wrong. This is not how it feels for me, maybe it looks like that, but it doesn't feel like that.

Methyl traps-
Cyano-b12 (contains cyanide, so don't know)
Hydroxy-b12 (expensive form of b12, but can scavenge nitric oxide and cyanide)
adensyl-b12
Folate (RP said it often contains impurities, though reliably strong)
Cysteine (anti-thyroid)
Methionine restriction (gelatin)
Glutathione

So those things may be positive for over methylators ? I don't understasnd because folate seems to be a methyl donor:

"In concert with vitamin B12, 5-MTHF (folate) functions as a methyl-group donor involved in the conversion of the amino acid homocysteine to methionine.* Methyl-group donation is vital to many biochemical conversion processes, including the synthesis of serotonin, melatonin, and DNA."

 

[jyb]

Unfortunately for those who like to comment on carrot salad. My personal experience is that I don't think it's capable of fixing all gut issues and certainly not changing the microbiome profoundly. In fact I don't use carrot salad anymore at all. It makes my digestive track inflamed and crappy.

How would you fix gut issues? In my experience things like milk and avoiding most fibers except ones like carrot will prevent the more obvious digestion issues (bloating, acne, slowed transit, more hypothyroid the following day, etc). As for starch, not always a problem if thoroughly cooked as the transit will be fast, like potato boiled and fried in coconut oil. I have found shrimp to be unhelpful.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Eat anything that cause as little as possible issues. I can eat rice and potatoes without problems. These are bulking well and make me go to the toilet at least once daily. You want as little as possible inflammation in the digestive track. If milk is troublesome, how many positive effects it may have, leave it for what it is for now.. same is for carrots and everything else.

Meanwhile improve the metabolism, take as much rest as possible when you can and f or those affected by immune disbalans (known viral, bacterial, autoimmune issues, ...) check you vitamin D: 25OH AND 1,25(OH)2D and try find yourself information. I won't go much deeper into the latter subject publicly, as this may cause really much misinterpretation.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I remember this paper where they found abnormal (don't remember if too much or too little) histamine levels in spinal fluid of schizophrenics.

If this theory is true, along with the Rat Park, the last two centuries of social policies have been a really efficient waste of suffering! Smoke in the eyes. A Neo-Darwinist's superweapon. You mentioned a blood test for the ratio, do you have more info about it?

 

[Ben]

I remember this paper where they found abnormal (don't remember if too much or too little) histamine levels in spinal fluid of schizophrenics.

If this theory is true, along with the Rat Park, the last two centuries of social policies have been a really efficient waste of suffering! Smoke in the eyes. A Neo-Darwinist's superweapon. You mentioned a blood test for the ratio, do you have more info about it?

Yes, it's in the last few paragraphs of this post.

Interesting Ben, but instead of fixing an another ratio issue that normally that body should sort out itself. Interfering with all kinds of agonists, antagonists, traps and what not, that not really solve the underlying problem. I will add a bit more to take into consideration when suffering these issues.

I would focus in fixing the metabolism and immunity. This will take care of the gut function and helps restore intestinal integrity and hopefully change the microbiome to normal (I miss intestinal integrity and mucosal DAO (di-amino oxidase) activity / expression). In all psychiatric disorders a changed microbiome and often increased intestinal permeability is found, signs of altered immunity and insufficient metabolism.

As said in the immunity thread, metabolism is important for immunity but not a factor that will likely fix it all (I keep repeating this, as people's experiences on this forum, like yours, seem to highly agree with that). Histamine is a mediator of the immune system (didn't read that either) and there's way way more involved but getting off topic then.

Unfortunately for those who like to comment on carrot salad. My personal experience is that I don't think it's capable of fixing all gut issues and certainly not changing the microbiome profoundly. In fact I don't use carrot salad anymore at all. It makes my digestive track inflamed and crappy.

Genetic differences, like in folate metabolism, can create a serious imbalance without gut or metabolism problems.

How can you tell if carrot salad makes your digestive track inflamed, or whether it changes the bacteria? My experience with it is that it feels constipating, but I can poop it all out. I see much, if not all of the carrot in my stool, and on the paper. It makes my stomach hurt around the time I feel the stool coming. I could be eating too much, I grate several carrots usually and eat till I feel I'm full.

You say to avoid food that irritates your gut. Milk seems to give me a bad reaction, in addition to diarrhea. Commercial head-cheese probably has preservatives that make my stomach feel unwell. Gelatin dissolved in hot juice makes me stomach feel unwell too though, and makes me feel "impulsive" and "hasty". I get no bad reaction from store-bought orange juice (bad reaction to Tropicana and Florida's Natural though) or cheese with artificial rennet, though, no matter how much I eat or drink. Still have health issues. Could be poor blood flow to the brain like someone in another thread suggested. I think this could possibly result in anxiety, which messes with the hormonal system of the whole body. Overmethylation is also a slight possibility, I speculate. But treating it would make blood pooling even worse since the parasympathetic nervous system would be more activated.

General health (like CO2) would tend to reduce methylation, serotonin, and histamine. Balancing them would the reduce risk of pathology from an excess amount of any, and that's usually easier and faster to accomplish than improving one's health. The patients are given methyl-donors, serotonergic agents, and L-histidine, which aren't good for general health, but for them the supplements exert a balancing effect and treat their pathologies effectively.

Well if your theory is correct, than I'm surely an overmethylator.

I sleep very long naturally. I can sleep at any moment of the day, even on ritalin I can take a nap at any moment. On modafinil, I can take a nap, but not at any moment.
I am a disorganized underachiever. I sweet very little. Dry eyes. I can't sit still.

But not everything you say is in line with me. My libido is I think quite high (I'm still young). My bodyfat has always been low to very low. Never had a cavity.

Also, I think your association of nervous legs with anxiety is wrong. This is not how it feels for me, maybe it looks like that, but it doesn't feel like that.

Methyl traps-
Cyano-b12 (contains cyanide, so don't know)
Hydroxy-b12 (expensive form of b12, but can scavenge nitric oxide and cyanide)
adensyl-b12
Folate (RP said it often contains impurities, though reliably strong)
Cysteine (anti-thyroid)
Methionine restriction (gelatin)
Glutathione

So those things may be positive for over methylators ? I don't understasnd because folate seems to be a methyl donor:

"In concert with vitamin B12, 5-MTHF (folate) functions as a methyl-group donor involved in the conversion of the amino acid homocysteine to methionine.* Methyl-group donation is vital to many biochemical conversion processes, including the synthesis of serotonin, melatonin, and DNA."

That's the form of folate that contains a methyl group, and indeed a methyl donor. However, folic acid without a methyl group "steals" methyl groups from SAMe.

Dry-mouth is the real sign, that often leads to cavities, not the cavities themselves. "Nervous legs" is the association that the site created, I agree it's a bit off. I personally get restless legs not when I experience anxiety, but when there is nothing going on like in a boring classroom, and that's normal for ADHD. ADHD is common among overmethylators as well. I have a high sex drive too, and apparently I'm not histadelic, but lean at least a little toward overmethylation (see below). Every person is different. These are merely patterns.

If you want to find out for sure whether you're an overmethylator, you could first check your blood tests for absolute basophils, which are associated with high histamine and low methylation, or get a simple CBC (complete blood count) test done. Then it might be a good idea to test copper levels, which would most likely be elevated in the case of overmethylation.

My absolute basophils came out 0.05 on a range of 0.0-2.0 and I didn't find that strange the first time I saw it. I found no info on what's considered a low range, so judging by it, it seems slightly low, but no big deal. While I looked for the lower range, I found this about basophils:

Results increased in:
Ulcerative colitis [4]
Hypothyroidism [6]
Postsplenectomy [6][4]
Nephrosis [4]

Results decreased in:
Ovulation [4]
Pregnancy [4]
Hyperthyroidism (50% of patients) [6]

(The fact that histadelics seem stereotypically hyperthyoid and overmethylators seem stereotypically hypothyroid may have influenced these lists)

Lab Tests

I was actually hypothyroid at the time of the blood test and T3 came out low, so maybe I do have a case of significant overmethylation. If you have thyroid issues, take that into account too. I'm thinking about doing a blood test for copper, but I don't know if a doctor would order it for me. Maybe if I said I was taking a lot of copper and have symptoms, one would order it. Copper is usually elevated in overmethylators.

 

[jyb]

I could be eating too much, I grate several carrots usually and eat till I feel I'm full.

In my experience there is a sweet spot for how much carrot to take. Several large carrots in a single dose was constipating and unhelpful for me.

 

[Ben]

I tried Benadryl last night to see how it effect me, expecting positive effects. I found that it gives me the same helpless, depressed, feeling as caffeine. It lasts until the next day. I'm amazed that this peculiar feeling of despair is the same for both substances. They both give this feeling of being in a dark horror movie with nothing to be happy about, and everything to be afraid of, because everything out there has a "sinister aura", even things normally considered to be happy things. Happy music in horror movies doesn't make them happier, it makes them creepier, like evil clowns.

The SSRI activity may be an explanation, but caffeine doesn't increase serotonin (at least not normally, maybe it has such an effect on me). Inositol, which is thought to act by increasing serotonin receptor sensitivity, made me emotional when I took it a couple of years ago. In the OP, I theorized that caffeine would make overmethylators worse by providing additional methyl groups. Inositol, SSRIs, and anti-histamines are all known to trigger negative reactions in overmethylators.

Tianeptine, a serotonin antagonist, has been very effective for me. Not sure what other specifically anti-serotonin substances there are though. I wonder if cypro, antagonizing serotonin a little, would benefit or worsen a person with little histamine and lots of serotonin. I'll try to have it prescribed to me so I can see how it effects me.

Lisuride, being a strong dopamine agonist, should benefit histadelics because they have too much acetylcholine, which antagonizes dopamine, while overmethylators already have lots of dopamine activity, and choline supplements are sometimes used for their condition. I doubt it would worsen an overmethylator's state, but I think histadelics would benefit more from it.

I could be eating too much, I grate several carrots usually and eat till I feel I'm full.

In my experience there is a sweet spot for how much carrot to take. Several large carrots in a single dose was constipating and unhelpful for me.

Does your temperature or some other physical parameter benefit from the right amount of carrot? I personally don't feel anything from carrot.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

I tried Benadryl last night to see how it effect me, expecting positive effects. I found that it gives me the same helpless, depressed, feeling as caffeine. It lasts until the next day.

Ben, what dose of Benadryl did you take? I had a similar horrible experience at a 50mg dose which lasted over 24 hours, but at only 12.5mg it had almost the opposite effect.

The Last Psychiatrist wrote an article on the pharmacology of Benadryl, which explains that at different doses it doesn't just have different strengths, but acts as a totally different drug:

The drug has the most affinity for H1 receptors, sure, but look what else it does. M1 blockade (dry mouth, constipation, confusion.) It also has significant NE and serotonin reuptake blockade. Basically, the FDA decided to pick only one of these four properties and slap it on the box, in the same way as labeling a TV dinner as "Rice."

The Last Psychiatrist: Treating Insomnia With Less

 

[pboy]

one day we're gonna find out all the stuff behind the scenes in 'the lab' is no different than ancient rulers in their temples 'consulting the gods' of whom only they can gain info, and all citizens must trust and believe their almighty power. Wouldn't it be hilarious if all of this stuff was just made up? If you really think about it, it might as well be...no one actually benefits from it anyways. We all simply choose the foods we like and look at them as foods and just hope stuff works out 'according to the lab'. If something in our life isn't right that doesn't involve food, people often try to solve it through food because its the only thing that only involves them...no worldly maneuvering or interacting or problem solving within a group or facing up to something

al the people discussing diet and health, researching it, talking about it on forums, writing books...when you think about it, all of them, and all of us, can cite studies, list studies, talk about what weve read in books and diagrams we've seen...but no one is actually doing the studies. No one is making the tools and measuring devices. No one is really asking where and when and by whom and under what conditions these studies are supposedly done. At best, people buy a simple meter that measures sugar content, some kind of metal...at best. And we always just buy and trust the tool. What im trying to say is that even amongst the authors, experts, and people all talking about it (like us), none of us ever actually do the studies or make the equipment used in them. Basically everyone cites studies that have been released to the public and that's all they have to go on. Pretty crazy...becauase maybe the 'universities' and 'labs' and all that is just a few dudes propaganda stories

 

[mas]

By pboy
If something in our life isn't right that doesn't involve food, people often try to solve it through food because its the only thing that only involves them...no worldly maneuvering or interacting or problem solving within a group or facing up to something

______________________________________
One of the most important concepts in Ray Peat's writings is that "No topic can be understood in isolation." He also uses the word "fraud" to describe scientific "studies." Fraud seems to be the foundation for our corporate monopoly, financial, legal, media, medical, scientific spheres of influence, which dictate policy. Each person looks at news sources and if aware of rampant media fraud, tries to separate the wheat from the chaff.

]from Ray Peat
Bone Density: First Do No Harm

No topic can be understood in isolation.

Immunodeficiency, dioxins, stress, and the hormones
...which have become increasingly prevalent in our environment--unsaturated vegetable oils, ferrous iron and carrageenan in our foods, lead in air, food, and water, exposure to medical, military, and industrial ionizing radiation, vaccinations, pesticides, chlorinated hydrocarbons, nitric oxide (smog and medications) and oral contraceptives and environmental estrogens, in particular.

BSE - mad cow - scrapie, etc.: Stimulated amyloid degeneration and the toxic fats
...the viral oncogene, requires activation by something in the environment, its function is to distract the public’s attention from those environmental causes of disease, viz., radiation and chemical pollution...

_______________________________________

I think that understanding the potential toxins in our home, work environment, community, nation and world are just as important as food and supplements consumption and RP says that each person has their own individual physiology and a gain knowledge by their own experimentation.

Food, water, and air quality are determined by many factors. Organic food is reputed to be better than non-organic, but organic food is also subject to air and water pollution also, so how much is that diminishing the quality of the food? Fertilizer used for non organic crops now consist of toxic sludge from hospitals and industrial waste. New legislation has allowed an increase in the ppm of radioactive waste that is dumped in our water supplies.

Radioactive waste contaminates drinking water, EPA does nothing
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com ... es-nothing


Sadly, examples like the above are all too numerous and have been escalating incrementally and exponentially from the beginning of the 20th century right up to the present. Very little, if any media attention is focused on these problems by design, and only those aware of these problems can even consider them to begin with.

In my opinion, we will never defeat this monster by choosing the lost cause of either Democrats or Republicans in national election because the corporate monopolies own them. We have to start in our own communities to educate and to determine together what is in our own best interests and have a shared accountability. Then perhaps regional and national interests of the average person will be served better.

The best offense is a good defense by carefully choosing the best foods and supplements possible within one's means; trying to mitigate EMR and chemical toxicity in our own homes by mitigating as much as possible within our means.

Ray Peat mentioned that in order to have a balanced health we need to do more good things than bad.

 

[pboy]

honestly though even something like 'nitric oxide in the air' or whatever or 'ionizing radiation'...all measured by tools that none of us made, all trusting their quality and what they are actually reading, and pretty much none of us actually know what nitric oxide even is. We should start categorizing things not with scientific or chemical terms, but instead direct sensual quality. It makes it easier to operate and detect things that are beneficial or harmful anywhere, anytime, and without the need for an expert or measuring device. Such as, car exhaust smells terrible, looks terrible, makes breathing harder. Who cares what it has molecularly or how it effects rats in a sterile environment, the reason to not have the exhaust gas pouring throughout the city should be as simple as 'it smells bad and looks bad and therefore makes our experience in the city unpleasant'. Or, that garlic has 'molecule x and y and it effects organ x and y', the reason for not eating it should simply be because it burns your mouth and smells bad, and the bad smell lingers within you for hours, so it makes your day less pleasant, it hurts initially, and its bad manners because other people don't want to smell the odor protruding from your body. It doesn't matter how you look at things, our basic senses and the response in our mind, whether it is something you want to soak up or something you want to turn away from, tells all we need to know. We need to appeal to our senses, and have good manners...that's really it

 

[mas]

pboy
We should start categorizing things not with scientific or chemical terms, but instead direct sensual quality.

I don't see how this would help average consumers to understand that chemicals and radiation, etc... are dangerous to the population at large. Are you questioning scientific measurement of these entities in general because you think they are too inaccurate?

Just because scientific fraud exists, scientific measurements may not be fraudulent at all, but subject to convoluted interpretation by the reader due to manipulation of facts by the person committing the fraud.

 

[pboy]

my point is you don't need them either way, your initial sense of whether to soak up or turn away from something, and whether or not its sensualy appealing or offensive is all you need. That applies to people as well as substances or anything. If you cant detect something its pretty irrelevant. If you don't feel right but cant tell what it is, after investigation, at the source, there will be something obviously offensive as the cause. Measuring non sensible molecules is but a distraction or deterrent so whoevers profiting from the initial foul act, offensive source can continue with business as usual

radiation as an example...you cant detect it (this is assuming radition is even a big deal to begin with, theres many different types), but something doesn't feel right. You investigate. You find some crazy machines emitting buzzing non harmonious noises. You see a huge maching burning things producing black clouds or foul smells. The environment around the thing is paved over and it looks like there was no regard for decency of appeal. You see and talk to the people operating around the place and they all look like the emperor from star wars or have scouls or unhappy looks, don't look sound or smell pleasant, something about their vibe urges you to not want to be around them more than you have to. At that point, youd know...this place, this machine, these people are the cause. You don't actually need to know the details of what the machine is made of, whats being burned, what molecules are being emitted, you just need to realize this thing is unpleasant to be around, makes me feel unpleasant, the people are ugly and don't seem honest, and the whole operation looks like a wart on the environment...remove it, remove them, question them...see if theres a positive solution where everyone can be happy. It really comes down to people with bad intentions, producing something odiferous or unappealing to the eye and ear, in all cases...which is what needs to be dealt with. Trying to identify radiation, in this case, and buying some kind of protective shield or mat or whatever, is really no better than doctors selling drugs to mask a symptom. Things will just get worse. We should focus our intention at the root cause and better alternatives to it rather than how to protect from the collateral damage done by people with bad behavior. We need to realize also how these types of people are operating. They don't hide info, smash the little guy, and protect their corporation at all costs for no reason...they basically are scared and want a lot of money and really are just trying to protect their own security and bottom line...so if a competitor comes out with something better, or its found out that what they are doing is harming people, they will try to discredit or put down that info or corporation to protect their own livelihood. We need to develop a system of transitional subsidy, or come up with some plan to deal with this kind of situation, because its honestly the bane of capitalism and whats ruining it and all the peoples health...that people don't want to risk their livelihood by having what they do for a living be brought into question or be replaced, so they'll do whatever they have to at all cost, even up to the point of lying, covering up, or not letting anything else grow, simply to protect themselves. There should be some kind of system where if this type of situation arises, the offending company, or the company who's product has been ousted by a newer better product that's better for people, will have have leadway and assurance that their livelihood wont be lessened, so that way they can be open to new ideas, new info, and be honest about it rather than scurry around lying to protect themselves. Perhaps a year long subsidy guaranteeing their salary at the level it was, giving them time to merge into the new way of doing things or find a different job or product to work with

 

[Blossom]

I've enjoyed this entire topic and all the posts immensely. On a personal note I clearly remember feeling long standing 'psychological' issues lift after starting medications that have anti-serotonin and antihistamine actions. Obviously I don't want to be taking these medicines indefinitely but I have to admit the unexpected 'psychological' benefits were a very welcome change. It made me think of how backward things are in our mainstream treatment of mental health.
Recently I went through a very stressful family health crisis situation and what I learned from that experience is that no matter how ideal my diet is STRESS could still bring me to my knees. I'm grateful for all of the tools I now have, thanks to Peat's work, because I feel I was able to cope and rebound from the stress better than I would have before. With that said it became crystal clear to me that at this point there is probably no other outside tweak in the form of diet or supplement that is going to resolve what is really and truly STRESS. I have less stress and more resilience when I follow a sensible diet and lifestyle, inspired by Peat, but now it is on me to stop looking outside and start looking within. It is great to have reached a point where I have enough physical and mental stability to begin to recognize long standing negative patterns that developed over a lifetime. I know I couldn't have gotten to this remarkable crossroads if I hadn't found the tools to help me heal on a more basic and fundamental level. It's hard to say what came first but if I had to guess I think it is usually an environmental imbalance that results in what is considered 'psycological'. I've always felt it ridiculous to separate mind and body. The brain is obviously a physical organ and the most expensive one we have and everything is truly connected. Very real biochemical changes occur with stress and I think to a certain degree, and a large one at that, we can mitigate the potential damage that stress can cause. I just reached a point where I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was doing everything possible in the form of diet and supplements to assist my body and while continuing to follow that regimen I needed to reevaluate how I was handling stress. Sometimes it's a poor diet that needs corrected, sometimes it's a longstanding impaired metabolism that needs restored and much more but if we have done these things it might be time to review other aspects of our lives that may be resulting in an extreme stress situation. To live is STRESS but in a good state of health I think we can deal with those stressors more effectively. I've noticed a disturbing trend in my community where people want to quickly label and medicate normal human emotions. It's far easier to control a drugged and compliant society than to deal with fully functioning humans. People seem to be getting used to this drugged/medicated state as the norm.
I find it very positive to be part of a community(the forum) that does look at these issues from many angles and perspectives outside the mainstream. Each person in this thread stated something that I found insightful and valuable. We all work toward finding the the tools that help our unique situation and sharing those experiences might just help someone else. It's so much better than just taking a pill and going into hibernation/learned helplessness mode. I'm not judging anyone for taking anything I just think a lot of the typical medications used in modern day psychiatry should be thoroughly researched by the consumer before use because they are often not as safe as portrayed. Increasing prolactin is a big issue with many of the psychiatric meds that is not normally discussed. I'm happy to see people exploring all their options before resorting to psychiatric meds personally.

 

[pboy]

awesome blossom, its great to hear others speak in an intelligent dynamic connected way...a marker or wisdom and experience

 

[Blossom]

awesome blossom, its great to hear others speak in an intelligent dynamic connected way...a marker or wisdom and experience

Thanks pboy, I always enjoy your posts and find them loaded with down to earth, commonsense insights.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Hi pboy, lovely

Although I don't agree completely, you are definitely right about sciencetific studies and all the value people adminitster to certain numbers, that's just ridiculous. Everyone is so different and there are so many interrelations.

Besides that, science is not certain at all, for those who think it is.. Let that be clear! We are working on cells, micrometer range, that can mostly only be seen when stained. DNA is something we can't be sure on either, molecular mimicry is something that can be an issue. The meassuring tools are far from perfect indeed. Most of the conclusions we make are based on indirect observations, that aren't necesarrily wrong, but only show a tiny tiny picture of the whole. Often tests go on until they find the results they hypothesised. And there's many more, experiment conditions, patients, animal differences (a mice is not a man - NO way, so many differences :) )

But it's not the people, it's the system and ignorance.

I work in a university lab, studying some type of cancer. Most of the research is done with the very best intentions. Most of the research on cancer (the only experience I have) is that science took the wrong avenue. Science used to be driven by interest but these days it's almost completely driven by pharmacy, you need the money or someone else will just do it.

Then there is another problem and that's the professors think they know it all, because they learned for it and think what they leanred is completely right and complete. Really stubborn people sometimes .

Science, like blossom said, can give us wonderful information. The principles about biology are truly usefull it can give is an impressions of what MIGHT be going on and how we can (to some extent) take care of issues. Knowledge can help us to make the choices we wouldn't otherwise have been able to make.. Can go wrong, but can help us significant too. It also certainly helps you to accept biololgy, understand the complexity (that's when you read enough and don't understand it anymore ), enjoy life, makes you smile when you hear birdsong, appreciate innocent flourishing life in the spring, etc. For some science helps in this respect, and the mind like Blossom said is not something to ignore. The brains control everything, metabolism (mitochondrial energy expenditure), endocrine system, immunity, what not actually??

Unfortunate most research isn't about understanding biology anymore. It's about finding a quick fix (a cure) that brings on tons and tons of money for those who invented it. Luckily we have our sense and feeling, that is the actual truth, but sometimes we can't feel it. The exhaust gasses you will smell but estrogenic substances won't be until felt, it is too late. Sience in this respect is very useful.

It's difficult issue, how else would you come to understand things? I think this is the way it is for now.. Consciousness needs time to evolve. Work like that from Peat is very useful and also based on mostly these kind of results. The things is, Peat is critical but don't completely ignore things on beforehand, he questions most of what is published, dares to go against mainstream - basicly against the money (not many dare to risk what they have - anxiety drives the community), sees things related to the whole, and he is just priviledged - his brains like aren't some everyone has!

There will be a change for sure, unless mankind is so stupid... Change from this shortsighted view is necessarily to gain a deeper understanding of things. Hopefully in the nearby future people will come to realise, the good thing is that forums like this give people an exponential understanding.