Methods To Reduce Allergic Reaction From Foods?/diet Advice

[DannyIrons™]

There are others to watch, but the microbiologist Kiran talks about what these spore based probiotics do in the gut in this video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFI_8TseIkg

Yes, permeable means that things can get through the gut that shouldn't, so low is good.

Thanks for the video! Have you tried them yourself?

 

[Dave Clark]

Thanks for the video! Have you tried them yourself?

Yes. And, my response was like many, at first it takes your gut a bit to get used to, but then I noticed my regularity was better, and I had less gut issues like gas, loose stool, etc. So, I think they do work, but I also think , and I read it somewhere as well, that you don't need to take it everyday and at the doses they tell you. Once you get the spore probiotics established in your gut, you only need a little bit maybe once or twice/week to keep your gut health. In fact, you can just empty some of the capsules in food, or like I do, put a capsule in some kefir/yogurt, and eat throughout the week. These companies want to sell their product, so they will tell you to take multiple capsules/day, but unless your are dealing with a severe issue, it isn't necessary to re-structure your microbiome in a beneficial way.

 

[DannyIrons™]

Yes. And, my response was like many, at first it takes your gut a bit to get used to, but then I noticed my regularity was better, and I had less gut issues like gas, loose stool, etc. So, I think they do work, but I also think , and I read it somewhere as well, that you don't need to take it everyday and at the doses they tell you. Once you get the spore probiotics established in your gut, you only need a little bit maybe once or twice/week to keep your gut health. In fact, you can just empty some of the capsules in food, or like I do, put a capsule in some kefir/yogurt, and eat throughout the week. These companies want to sell their product, so they will tell you to take multiple capsules/day, but unless your are dealing with a severe issue, it isn't necessary to re-structure your microbiome in a beneficial way.

I wonder if it’s beneficial to try antibiotics for a week or two to reduce cultures and then use Megaspore?

 

[Dave Clark]

I wonder if it’s beneficial to try antibiotics for a week or two to reduce cultures and then use Megaspore?

I know many here on this forum are pro-antibiotic, but I witnessed too many people, including myself, have a hard time with them. I think they set up shop for pathogens, and recent studies show they destroy the microbiome, which takes a year to get back to normal. I recently lost one of my beloved ducks to antibiotics. The vet insisted she get them for her bumble foot {which I found out I could treat myself}, and she was never the same after that. She ended up with a systemic infection that originated from her digestive/reproductive tract {wonder how that happened?} and died. Antibiotics, to me, are like weed killer, they kill everything, and then the weeds grow back first and cause the same, if not worse problems. I feel antibiotics should be left to severe infection/life and death situations, not casual use.

 

[Dr. B]

I know many here on this forum are pro-antibiotic, but I witnessed too many people, including myself, have a hard time with them. I think they set up shop for pathogens, and recent studies show they destroy the microbiome, which takes a year to get back to normal. I recently lost one of my beloved ducks to antibiotics. The vet insisted she get them for her bumble foot {which I found out I could treat myself}, and she was never the same after that. She ended up with a systemic infection that originated from her digestive/reproductive tract {wonder how that happened?} and died. Antibiotics, to me, are like weed killer, they kill everything, and then the weeds grow back first and cause the same, if not worse problems. I feel antibiotics should be left to severe infection/life and death situations, not casual use.

they somehow caused a bunch of weight gain.
i was prescribed iirc 50mg or 100mg doxycycline daily for just acne... this is over 10 years ago. used it for a year, no changes to diet, physical activity actually increased, put on 60 pounds. weight gain stopped when i stopped them.
im not sure of the mechanism but somehow, it caused lots of weight gain.
i didnt get hair loss or other hypothyroid symptoms like ive gotten from iodine usage... so im not sure

 

[For Peat's Sake]

Copper deficiency and lack of dietary retinol is a major cause of allergies in my opinion. Lack of copper leads to low level activity of the major histamine-degradation enzymes, leaving you with higher histamine levels and poor control of serum histamines when high histamine foods are consumed.

Beef liver, whole food vitamin C really help, but go low and slow.
I am recovering from the opposite condition now - overmethylation with low histamines. I had severe histamine intolerance in the past.

I concur with this on my own experiences so far. I had prior issues (which I now understand but never knew about) to falling ill with Covid that were then exacerbated by that. I ended up taking 6 months to realise I had some form of mast cell activation that wasn't there previous, or at least less noticeable. I'm also going the copper deficiency route in tackling and it's slow but it's working. I've still got reactions to certain foods but it's decreasing as the weeks pass. I had previously gone the Vitamin D, zinc, long covid protocol approach and this did work but doesn't seem to fix the actual issue, not at least in my case.

 

[DannyIrons™]

I know many here on this forum are pro-antibiotic, but I witnessed too many people, including myself, have a hard time with them. I think they set up shop for pathogens, and recent studies show they destroy the microbiome, which takes a year to get back to normal. I recently lost one of my beloved ducks to antibiotics. The vet insisted she get them for her bumble foot {which I found out I could treat myself}, and she was never the same after that. She ended up with a systemic infection that originated from her digestive/reproductive tract {wonder how that happened?} and died. Antibiotics, to me, are like weed killer, they kill everything, and then the weeds grow back first and cause the same, if not worse problems. I feel antibiotics should be left to severe infection/life and death situations, not casual use.

I’ve listened to Kiran Krishnan a few times now and I do like his explanations. But of course they recommend fish oils and he also thinks coconut oil is a bad food because of its antimicrobial properties it releases too much toxins into the blood. Some non Peaty suggestions.
What’s your view on their MegaPre and MegaMucosa products? They do at least seem like the most study based probiotic company.

 

[Dave Clark]

I’ve listened to Kiran Krishnan a few times now and I do like his explanations. But of course they recommend fish oils and he also thinks coconut oil is a bad food because of its antimicrobial properties it releases too much toxins into the blood. Some non Peaty suggestions.
What’s your view on their MegaPre and MegaMucosa products? They do at least seem like the most study based probiotic company.

Yes, it seems like just about every health expert buys into the fish oil thing. I sent Kiran a message basically asking him why he advocates unsaturated fats like fish oils, and he said he would research it. A lot of these health experts never hear, or believe any negative views on omega-3 oils, but I sent him some links to review. Anyway, his wheelhouse is the spore based probiotics, which I have experienced to be good, and the research shows the same. Even Peat has said some good things about bacillus subtilus, mostly because it can act sort of like a natural antibiotic, and I think these spore bacteria can reduce LPSs. Most people report an adjustment period in the beginning of usage, until the colon gets used to them, but then any negative side effects go away and things straighten out. I just think that after you get the colon colonized with these, the dosage and usage scheduling they recommend is more for their wallet than your health. Kiran himself says they stay in the colon a few days, so with that in mind, I think just taking a cap or two a few times/week is enough, unless you are battling serious gut issues, then more may be better.

 

[meatbag]

The Histaminase Activity of Ceruloplasmin.
Plasma diamine oxidase: a biomarker of copper deficiency in the bovine

Thankyou, so if a person has insufficient copper than they'll have insufficient enzymes to degrade histamine. So why do you think histamine would be elevated in the first place?

 

[youngsinatra]

Thankyou, so if a person has insufficient copper than they'll have insufficient enzymes to degrade histamine. So why do you think histamine would be elevated in the first place?

Well histamine is a natural part of the foods we consume. It is formed by the amino acid histidine. Some foods are high in histamines especially food leftover, ground beef, aged cheeses, avocado, tomatoes, spinach, citrus fruits and so on, while others are low histamine.
A healthy body should regulate histamine levels appropriately with the exposure to it by the environment and food.

But other types of inflammation can activate mast cells to release histamine as well.

 

[DannyIrons™]

Yes, it seems like just about every health expert buys into the fish oil thing. I sent Kiran a message basically asking him why he advocates unsaturated fats like fish oils, and he said he would research it. A lot of these health experts never hear, or believe any negative views on omega-3 oils, but I sent him some links to review. Anyway, his wheelhouse is the spore based probiotics, which I have experienced to be good, and the research shows the same. Even Peat has said some good things about bacillus subtilus, mostly because it can act sort of like a natural antibiotic, and I think these spore bacteria can reduce LPSs. Most people report an adjustment period in the beginning of usage, until the colon gets used to them, but then any negative side effects go away and things straighten out. I just think that after you get the colon colonized with these, the dosage and usage scheduling they recommend is more for their wallet than your health. Kiran himself says they stay in the colon a few days, so with that in mind, I think just taking a cap or two a few times/week is enough, unless you are battling serious gut issues, then more may be better.

I found this quote from Ray about Megaspore which is interesting - "Rarely, a normally probiotic bacteria can become harmfully invasive, but those in the megasporebiotic product are generally safe. B. subtilis and B. licheniformis synthesize antibiotics that kill many bacteria, if they are able to grow in the intestine." - Ray.

I also absolutely agree with Krishnan's comments that true healing or resilience is being able to tolerate all types of foods. I remember watching videos of a Raw Carnivore Youtube when I was in the midst of my Carnivore period and although she claimed that she was fully healed and her symptoms gone, she drank fresh coconut milk from her home country and it didn't sit well with her. For me that's not resilience. At least this company are trying to tie up all the loose ends regarding the whole vague microbiome/probiotic research and manufacturing industry.

 

[youngsinatra]

I am also quite suprised that Danny and Ray are both unable to tolerate most foods and are so sensitive to all kinds of minor thing, even though they eat a perfect pro-metabolic diet, take vitamin D and thyroid etc.

It just seems like it‘s an elimination diet for life. But if your quality of life is high and your health very good on such a restricted regimen, then it probably is worth the cost of restriction.

 

[JacobG]

It is similar to carnivore. Most people that need to stay on the strict diet have a destroyed microbiome.

 

[Dave Clark]

I found this quote from Ray about Megaspore which is interesting - "Rarely, a normally probiotic bacteria can become harmfully invasive, but those in the megasporebiotic product are generally safe. B. subtilis and B. licheniformis synthesize antibiotics that kill many bacteria, if they are able to grow in the intestine." - Ray.

I also absolutely agree with Krishnan's comments that true healing or resilience is being able to tolerate all types of foods. I remember watching videos of a Raw Carnivore Youtube when I was in the midst of my Carnivore period and although she claimed that she was fully healed and her symptoms gone, she drank fresh coconut milk from her home country and it didn't sit well with her. For me that's not resilience. At least this company are trying to tie up all the loose ends regarding the whole vague microbiome/probiotic research and manufacturing industry.

Thanks for the quote. I knew somewhere he said something positive around the spore based probiotics.
It resonated with me as to what Kiran said about being able to tolerate most or all foods. Decades ago you didn't hear too much about people with food intolerance or allergies, now it is commonplace, and although complex, I believe many things have compromised people's microbiome, things like glyphosate, EMFs, other chemicals, etc. For anyone dealing with issues, the spore based probiotics are at least worth a proper trial.

 

[meatbag]

Well histamine is a natural part of the foods we consume. It is formed by the amino acid histidine. Some foods are high in histamines especially food leftover, ground beef, aged cheeses, avocado, tomatoes, spinach, citrus fruits and so on, while others are low histamine.
A healthy body should regulate histamine levels appropriately with the exposure to it by the environment and food.

But other types of inflammation can activate mast cells to release histamine as well.

Interesting, yeah it looks like Histamine is released from Mast cells, where it is stored along with other amines like serotonin. But it seems there is something specific that triggers it to be released, I'm not sure what it is though: Histamine Release from Mast Cells and Basophils - PubMed

I saw this posted by @uptophate on twitter, you guys might find it helpful:

Riboflavin Inhibits Histamine-Dependent Itch by Modulating Transient Receptor Potential Vanilloid 1 (TRPV1)​

 

[For Peat's Sake]

Interesting, yeah it looks like Histamine is released from Mast cells, where it is stored along with other amines like serotonin. But it seems there is something specific that triggers it to be released, I'm not sure what it is though: Histamine Release from Mast Cells and Basophils - PubMed

I saw this posted by @uptophate on twitter, you guys might find it helpful:

Riboflavin Inhibits Histamine-Dependent Itch by Modulating Transient Receptor Potential Vanilloid 1 (TRPV1)​

There are so many mast cell triggers, not one specific thing. Mould is a primary culprit for most but the list is exhaustive. Add into that there are histamine liberators as well as higher and lower histamine foods.

I can have a day that’s fine, then the next day complete opposite because of stress, someone’s aftershave, encountering mould I can’t see, eating something higher histamine that I would have tolerated the day before. You just slowly establish the patterns. It’s going to take a long time for me to get right but I’m going to give it a go at least. It’s something like 6 months to replace 1/6 of your mast cells.

I’ll use myself as an example, I didn’t know I had a major issue, always had allergies though, then Covid came along, ramped it all up, all of a sudden you’re getting very odd sensations, chest pain, all sorts, because you’ve got mast cells all over the body. If I remember right there’s even a histamine store in the heart. Anyway I established by keeping diaries it was foods that would never have crossed my mind before. Avocado, banana, coffee. Who’s going to think a week ago you were eating and drinking whatever then you had Covid and it’s now the food you were eating prior that’s now driving the ‘long covid’ not the virus lingering? We’ll see what happens anyway, good luck to anyone healing up their histamine.

 

[DannyIrons™]

I am also quite suprised that Danny and Ray are both unable to tolerate most foods and are so sensitive to all kinds of minor thing, even though they eat a perfect pro-metabolic diet, take vitamin D and thyroid etc.

It just seems like it‘s an elimination diet for life. But if your quality of life is high and your health very good on such a restricted regimen, then it probably is worth the cost of restriction.

I think it just demonstrates that they don't have all the pieces of the puzzle, which is okay of course, Ray would be the first to admit that I'm sure.

 

[Korven]

A strong metabolism and high CO2 levels should help reduce mast cell degranulation, I remember Danny Roddy talking about this in some podcast:

(PDF) Treatment of mast cells with carbon dioxide suppresses degranulation via a novel mechanism involving repression of increased intracellular calcium levels

PDF | Intranasal noninhaled delivery of carbon dioxide (CO₂) is efficacious in the symptomatic treatment of seasonal allergic rhinitis. The goal of this... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Though I believe these kinds of issues usually stem from poor digestion, gut issues, SIBO, overburdened liver etc. Gut bacteria also play a role, a couple bifdobacterium strains seem promising for reducing allergic reactions/histamine levels.

 

[DannyIrons™]

A strong metabolism and high CO2 levels should help reduce mast cell degranulation, I remember Danny Roddy talking about this in some podcast:

(PDF) Treatment of mast cells with carbon dioxide suppresses degranulation via a novel mechanism involving repression of increased intracellular calcium levels

PDF | Intranasal noninhaled delivery of carbon dioxide (CO₂) is efficacious in the symptomatic treatment of seasonal allergic rhinitis. The goal of this... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Though I believe these kinds of issues usually stem from poor digestion, gut issues, SIBO, overburdened liver etc. Gut bacteria also play a role, a couple bifdobacterium strains seem promising for reducing allergic reactions/histamine levels.

I agree @Korven. breathing normalisation (Buteyko) leads to continuous high partial pressure of CO2 in the blood. I don't believe anyone that has effortless silent breathing 24/7 would have any allergic/histamine issues. However, things like pathogenic bacteria, gut infections etc.. would most likely prevent you reaching such a high level of breathing.

 

[amd]

Even RP is now talking more about coconut oil causing problems because of its allergenic components, even when it is refined.