Let's Talk About Nocturnal Penile Tumescence

[vulture]

I have seen fluctuations on this matter. But what does it actually mean? why it happens?

I read from @haidut that it's a sign of steroidogenesis. I haven't read much about it. Sometimes I notice, despite some ocassional problems with erections in bed, that nocturnal tumescence might last even around 5 to 10 minutes (while I wake up in the night), so, this tells me there's no relevant problem with circulation that could be causing erection issues sometimes.

What do you think/know about nocturnal penile tumescence? can you say you are getting more of it while getting healthier and less of it while being weaker?

 

[haidut]

I have seen fluctuations on this matter. But what does it actually mean? why it happens?

I read from @haidut that it's a sign of steroidogenesis. I haven't read much about it. Sometimes I notice, despite some ocassional problems with erections in bed, that nocturnal tumescence might last even around 5 to 10 minutes (while I wake up in the night), so, this tells me there's no relevant problem with circulation that could be causing erection issues sometimes.

What do you think/know about nocturnal penile tumescence? can you say you are getting more of it while getting healthier and less of it while being weaker?

The evidence seems to indicate that morning/night wood is a good metric of T levels. However, erection response to stimuli while awake is not thought to be driven by T.
Nocturnal penile tumescence and serum testosterone levels. - PubMed - NCBI
Testosterone and erectile function, nocturnal penile tumescence and rigidity, and erectile response to visual erotic stimuli in hypogonadal and eug... - PubMed - NCBI
The effects of testosterone replacement on nocturnal penile tumescence and rigidity and erectile response to visual erotic stimuli in hypogonadal men. - PubMed - NCBI
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.1939-4640.1997.tb01967.x
Testosterone and sleep-related erections: an overview*. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[vulture]

The evidence seems to indicate that morning/night wood is a good metric of T levels. However, erection response to stimuli while awake is not thought to be driven by T.
Nocturnal penile tumescence and serum testosterone levels. - PubMed - NCBI
Testosterone and erectile function, nocturnal penile tumescence and rigidity, and erectile response to visual erotic stimuli in hypogonadal and eug... - PubMed - NCBI
The effects of testosterone replacement on nocturnal penile tumescence and rigidity and erectile response to visual erotic stimuli in hypogonadal men. - PubMed - NCBI
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.1939-4640.1997.tb01967.x
Testosterone and sleep-related erections: an overview*. - PubMed - NCBI

Coincidentally recently my T was higher and my norturnal tumescense seems like increasingly usual. BTW, I started this thread after having remarkable NPT last night after having my oysters (I abnormally were 2 weeks without eating them)

 

[Jon]

This is my experience as well. Until late last year my test was in the dumps and I hadn't gotten morning wood for around 3 or more years. Fast forward to now , I am much healthier and morning erections are almost painful lol. My test levels are also dramatically improved, there's totally a correlation. Funny you mention oysters, I can't eat them anymore but when I started supplementing Zinc to assure a good copper ratio was the first time I noticed my morning erections to be improved. Although too much of it has suppressed them in the past (along with every other supplement) so I mostly just represent all nutrients with diet now.

 

[PecosRiver]

From Testosterone and sleep-related erections: an overview*. - PubMed - NCBI (the last link in the above list):

This is in turn to prevent cavernous fibrosis, the histopathological basis for corporeal venoocclusive dysfunction, which probably is the most common cause of organic erectile dysfunction.

@haidut - more questions related to fibrosis. Does it mean the same thing here as compared to say 'liver' or 'heart' fibrosis? ("You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.") Would an anti-fibrotic liquid compound with lots of methyl SFAs topically applied be efficacious? I'm being deliberately vague here so you can hopefully respond.

 

[haidut]

From Testosterone and sleep-related erections: an overview*. - PubMed - NCBI (the last link in the above list):

This is in turn to prevent cavernous fibrosis, the histopathological basis for corporeal venoocclusive dysfunction, which probably is the most common cause of organic erectile dysfunction.

@haidut - more questions related to fibrosis. Does it mean the same thing here as compared to say 'liver' or 'heart' fibrosis? ("You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.") Would an anti-fibrotic liquid compound with lots of methyl SFAs topically applied be efficacious? I'm being deliberately vague here so you can hopefully respond.

I think the etiology of fibrosis is largely the same, regardless of the organ where it manifests itself. Antagonists of 5-HT2B have been found to be therapeutic for fibrosis regardless of the location. Testosterone also has an antifibrotic effects, which may explain why it is helpful for ED even in cases where blood flow is normal. Given the high enervation of the penile tissue, I think ED has more to do with nerve damage than NO deficiency, which is consistent with ED problems in diabetes patients who have neuropathy issues everywhere. As such anti-fibrotic and anti-serotonin agents should be able to help most cases of ED, even if the official version is that they are caused by "low NO".

 

[Dobbler]

Isn't erection driven by parasympathetic nervous system? Stress = sympathetic dominance = no erection.

 

[Nicolas Noyola]

The evidence seems to indicate that morning/night wood is a good metric of T levels. However, erection response to stimuli while awake is not thought to be driven by T.
Nocturnal penile tumescence and serum testosterone levels. - PubMed - NCBI
Testosterone and erectile function, nocturnal penile tumescence and rigidity, and erectile response to visual erotic stimuli in hypogonadal and eug... - PubMed - NCBI
The effects of testosterone replacement on nocturnal penile tumescence and rigidity and erectile response to visual erotic stimuli in hypogonadal men. - PubMed - NCBI
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.1939-4640.1997.tb01967.x
Testosterone and sleep-related erections: an overview*. - PubMed - NCBI

in my experience, erections are very strongly related to bowel motility and health. more BM = better erections. If i were to speculate i would say its because of the gut's relation to serotonin and endotoxin. rapid and consistent evacuation results in low serotonin, and consequently great erections. I recall one morning after delivering a sizeable BM, my carnal regions were incredibly active. Apologies for any crudity.

 

[Nicolas Noyola]

in my experience, erections are very strongly related to bowel motility and health. more BM = better erections. If i were to speculate i would say its because of the gut's relation to serotonin and endotoxin. rapid and consistent evacuation results in low serotonin, and consequently great erections. I recall one morning after delivering a sizeable BM, my carnal regions were incredibly active. Apologies for any crudity.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I find that when I have very strong erections waking up my erections are not quite as good for sex on those days...not sure why.

 

[vulture]

I think the etiology of fibrosis is largely the same, regardless of the organ where it manifests itself. Antagonists of 5-HT2B have been found to be therapeutic for fibrosis regardless of the location. Testosterone also has an antifibrotic effects, which may explain why it is helpful for ED even in cases where blood flow is normal. Given the high enervation of the penile tissue, I think ED has more to do with nerve damage than NO deficiency, which is consistent with ED problems in diabetes patients who have neuropathy issues everywhere. As such anti-fibrotic and anti-serotonin agents should be able to help most cases of ED, even if the official version is that they are caused by "low NO".

Do you think it’s still likely nerve damage if nocturnal tumescense is good?
Do you think it’s reversible by anti-fibrotic and anti-serotonin treatments?

 

[Scenes]

I think the etiology of fibrosis is largely the same, regardless of the organ where it manifests itself. Antagonists of 5-HT2B have been found to be therapeutic for fibrosis regardless of the location. Testosterone also has an antifibrotic effects, which may explain why it is helpful for ED even in cases where blood flow is normal. Given the high enervation of the penile tissue, I think ED has more to do with nerve damage than NO deficiency, which is consistent with ED problems in diabetes patients who have neuropathy issues everywhere. As such anti-fibrotic and anti-serotonin agents should be able to help most cases of ED, even if the official version is that they are caused by "low NO".

Trying to make sense of this from my experience...

Lisuride = much improved sexual functioning (libido, erections, morning wood etc) for first week or two...tapered off a bit after that but still good.

To the comment above, lisuride also gave me MUCH improved bowel movements, and I thought they were already fine. Could be a connection.

Oxidal = lowered sexual functioning by all the same parameters above. I assumed it was because nitric oxide was lowered by oxidal, but that doesn’t line up with what you’ve said here.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Do you think it’s still likely nerve damage if nocturnal tumescense is good?
Do you think it’s reversible by anti-fibrotic and anti-serotonin treatments?

I think there is evidence for middle aged or older men that long term lack of erections results in penile fibrosis.

I think using a penis pump and proteolytic enzymes and aspirin and coffee and K2 MK4 can all help reverse it. The penis pump is necessary to get blood into the caverns.

As usual, nutritional improvements such as getting rid of PUFAs and lowering endotoxin load is needed.

 

[theLaw]

I think using a penis pump and proteolytic enzymes and aspirin and coffee and K2 MK4 can all help reverse it. The penis pump is necessary to get blood into the caverns.

Always wondered if this did more harm than good to the tissue by force.

@haidut Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Elephanto]

Penile calcification is something that is frequent in hypogonadal and post-propecia people and it hinders erections. Besides low androgens, there was a study posted on propecia help where TGF-Beta was causing it.

A few agents that inhibit TGF-Beta are Taurine, Zinc, Milk Thistle, Emodin, Olive Oil, Vitamin D, Ginger, anything that is dopaminergic/anti-serotonin as 5-HT2 increases TGF-Beta, CO2 as hypoxia increases it, anti-estrogenic substances and probably any decalcifying agents like Magnesium and K2. Liver damage increases TGF-Beta. Avoiding cigarette smoke oxidation, endotoxins, excess alcohol, stress.

This is also why when one does NoFap, I think it's important to force an erection every day to allow regular blood flow if erections aren't spontaneous.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Always wondered if this did more harm than good to the tissue by force.

@haidut Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Multiple good studies show its benefits. Studies have been done following prostate surgery which often results in lack of erections.

Preservation of penile length after radical prostatectomy: early intervention with a vacuum erection device
Radical prostatectomy has been shown to have a potential negative impact on penile health. Stretched penile length (SPL), which most closely correlates with erect penile length, was significantly reduced in almost half of men undergoing surgery in several studies. The purpose of this study was to test whether early intervention after surgery with a vacuum erection device could prevent the changes in penile health, as defined by SPL, found in prior studies. Forty-two men with good preoperative sexual function undergoing nerve-sparing radical prostatectomy underwent measurement of SPL preoperative and at 3 months postoperative by a single investigator. Daily use of a vacuum erection device (VED) was begun the day after catheter removal, and continued for 90 days. Men kept a log of their compliance with daily VED use. A decrease in SPL of 1.0 cm was considered significant. Out of 42 men, 39 completed the study. In men who used the VED >50% of possible days, only 1/36 (3%) had a decrease in SPL of 1.0 cm. Of the three men with poor VED compliance, two (67%) had a reduction in SPL of 1.0 cm. When compared to prior studies where 48% of men after surgery had a significant reduction in SPL, early intervention with the daily use of a VED resulted in a significantly lower risk of loss of penile length (P<0.0001). For men wishing to preserve penile health/length after surgery, early intervention with the daily use of a VED should be strongly recommended.

 

[haidut]

Do you think it’s still likely nerve damage if nocturnal tumescense is good?
Do you think it’s reversible by anti-fibrotic and anti-serotonin treatments?

If NPT (night erections) are good then it is unlikely that nerve damage is present and any ED issues are probably psychological. After all, nocturnal erections are a proof that nothing is wrong "down there" physiologically, so what remains is the stress response in people with highly active parasympathetic system. The latter can cause a variety of symptoms like sweaty palms, social anxiety, stuttering, and of course ED. For those people, anticholinergic chemicals like cypro or Benadryl may help. Peat spoke about this in one recent in interview, making a connection between ED and premature ejaculation, and overactive parasympathetic system. He also suggested vitamin B6 may help too.

 

[haidut]

Always wondered if this did more harm than good to the tissue by force.

@haidut Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Don't know much about this technique but it does seem risky. I would try the decalcification method first. Cyproheptadine has also been shown to help with erection problems especially in people with psychologically-driven ED.

 

[theLaw]

Don't know much about this technique but it does seem risky. I would try the decalcification method first. Cyproheptadine has also been shown to help with erection problems especially in people with psychologically-driven ED.

Perhaps the positive results are just from the increased forced mechanical blood flow, which I assume is would be better than nothing. But solving the underlying problem would probably be a much better path as you said.

 

[cellboy]

Isn‘t it because of elevated ACTH at night which increase cortisol and DHEA?