Ejaculatory Exhaustion

TheSir

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@TheSir Maybe it's not inherent but in porn they probably use a quantity of drugs equal to a bodybuilder... can you explain to me why a woman can have continuous sexual intercourse (even with coming?) while a man needs a refractory period? I hope I haven't said something stupid
I think it has something to do with women orgasming internally and men orgasming externally. Men who learn to control the external part of their orgasm so as to orgasm without ejaculating anything will be able to have multiple orgasms in a row.
 

Logan-

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I think it has something to do with women orgasming internally and men orgasming externally. Men who learn to control the external part of their orgasm so as to orgasm without ejaculating anything will be able to have multiple orgasms in a row.
Further reading:


I think your view here is false. It has to do with something else. Injaculation doesn’t work. What causes the difference between men and women regarding post-coital problems is something I too have been wondering.
 

Logan-

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dopamineBIGa.jpg

From:Cupid's Poisoned Arrow


***“On the 7th day of abstinence, however, a clear peak of serum testosterone appeared, reaching 145.7% of the baseline ( P < 0.01). No regular fluctuation was observed following continuous abstinence after the peak.”
A research on the relationship between ejaculation and serum testosterone level in men. - PubMed - NCBI


***Even though ejaculations seemingly have no significant effects on serum testosterone levels, they can (at least according to rodent studies) alter the body’s ability to utilize testosterone. It has been seen that after multiple ejaculations a sharp decline in androgen receptors takes place inside the hypothalamus, and not only that, but a sharp increase in estrogen receptors follows as well. One rodent study also found out that 1 or 2 ejaculations in short span of time increased androgen receptor activity in the body, while 4 or more ejaculations caused a significant drop in the activity of AR, suggesting that ejaculating yourself to “sexual exhaustion” might lower your body’s ability to utilize androgens.
Ejaculation and Testosterone Levels: Masturbation Lowers T?


***Studies have shown if you masturbate more than twice in a day, there becomes a decline in androgen receptors in your brain. These are what allows your body to use testosterone by binding to it – with less of these, the less your body can use and lower your active testosterone levels will be. [7]

And to make matters worse it’s been seen to make estrogen levels increase. [8] While your androgen receptors are on the decline, estrogen receptors are on the rise, meaning they’re binding to more of the female hormone in your body and increasing your risk of lower testosterone.

[7] Romano-Torres M, Phillips-Farfan BV, Chavira R, Rodriguez-Manzo G, Fernandez-Guasti A. Relationship between sexual satiety and brain androgen receptors. Neuroendocrinology. 2007;85:16–26.
[8] Phillips-Farfan BV, Lemus AE, Fernandez-Guasti A. Increased estrogen receptor alpha immunoreactivity in the forebrain of sexually satiated rats. Horm. Behav. 2007;51:328–334.
Does Masturbating Lower Testosterone? - TestoFuel Blog


***Today, there is also a growing number of evidence that links testosterone levels with the number of times you ejaculate in a single day. This is evidenced by changes observed in your number of androgen receptors or receptors that allow you to utilize testosterone throughout your body. Hence with lower androgen receptors, you will essentially also have lower active testosterone levels.

According to a study conducted by the Universidad Veracruzana in Mexico, one to two ejaculations for a short period of time can increase androgen receptor activity. However, when ejaculations are done four or more times during a short period of time, there is a significant reduction in androgen activity. Specifically, it was observed that androgen receptors returned to its baseline level after the fourth ejaculation. (study)

This finding seems to be supported by another study done by the Centro de Investigación y Estudios Avanzados and Instituto Nacional de Ciencias Médicas y Nutrición 'Salvador Zubirán' in Mexico. Their experiment revealed that multiple ejaculations resulted in a significant decline in androgen receptors. (study)

At the same time, a study conducted by CINVESTAV in Mexico found that while androgen receptors are decreased after multiple ejaculations, there is also a significant increase in estrogen receptors. (study)
Is There a Link Between Masturbation and Testosterone?


***Dopamine is a major factor. Drugs and activities whichc change the regulation of dopamine will alter libido. Dopamine agonists (pramiprexole), dopamine reuptake inhibitors (wellbutrin, cocaine, methamphetamine) will all cause increases in reward seeking behavior including but not limited to libido. Dopamine blockers such as antipsychotics are often considered libido killers.

Dopamine is counter-regulated by prolactin which is released after male ejaculation, so increases in prolactin cause dopamine and libido to drastically fall off. The other name for dopamine is prolactin inhibiting hormone, or PIH. Males who are able to ejaculate multiple times in a row with no refractory period tend to have a reduced production of or response to prolactin.

Testosterone is a huge factor in libido for men and women. Testosterone acts as a neuromodulator and potentiates dopamineric activation of the sex drive.
ELI5: What causes libido, and why does it vary so much between people? : explainlikeimfive


***It not only helps regulate testosterone production in men, but also helps to regulate immune functions, salt and water balances, metabolic functions, endocrine system, brain and behavior, and growth and development. Prolactin is what tells your body that it’s satisfied after sex, and lets the arousal mechanisms (aka dopamine) know they can settle down for a bit.
...
Because higher levels of prolactin are found in fathers of young children and in expectant fathers, as compared to un-mated males, according to a large-scale study in the Phillipines, behavioral endocrinologists have theorized that a modest rise in prolactin helps prepare men for the task of fatherhood. It quiets the sex drive, they figure, and along with oxytocin—with its weird reputation for being both the “cuddle” hormone as well as a byproduct of stress—helps dads of young children bond to and empathize with their offspring.

Elevated levels prolactin in the blood signals the gonads to make less testosterone (hypogonadism).

Sometimes levels also go up during periods of stress, even briefly.
...
It can be helpful to look at prolactin levels next to testosterone levels, because ongoing high prolactin secretion will signal the body to lower testosterone production.
Prolactinemia | Causes of Male Infertility


this is what 'YOU' can achieve after 'X' amount of days!
renderTimingPixel.png

  • 5 minutes - heart rate returns to normal.

  • 2-3 days - guilt and shame seems to decrease.

  • 7 days - brain fog lifts.

  • 14 days - prolactin starts to drop.

  • 14 - 21 days - due to drop in prolactin, dopamine sensitivity increases, you can start to enjoy the little things in life again, no longer emotionally numb, energy levels start to increase big time, confidence also increases.

  • 30 days - cravings and flashbacks noticeably reduce.

  • 30-60 days - PIED symptoms disappear or improve. Erections become rock solid, unless you're PIED symptoms are severe. Confidence keeps rising

  • 42 days - ΔFosB (DeltaFosB) that has accumulated around the nucleus accumbens starts to remove itself. This makes it possible for the neurons in the porn-addicted pathways to now start to slowly break up over time without use.

  • 90 days - considered a full reboot for most people, however people with severe PIED will need longer. Confidence still rising

  • 120 - 150 days - symptoms of severe PIED disappear or improve.
this is what 'YOU' can achieve after 'X' amount of days! : NoFap

This image shows some of the hormonal changes in men before, during, and after orgasm.

43RWkMg.png


The above image was taken from this article: Specificity of the neuroendocrine response to orgasm during sexual arousal in men. (2003)

Source: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
 

Logan-

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I get terrible migraines after orgasm (with or without ejaculation). I have been battling with this problem for a long time.
 

Logan-

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Logan-

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Regarding POIS

Gbolduev: "Trust me guys I tried every thing. I did B3 when this forum did not even exist. I realized that quercetin worked by increasing copper that is why prostaglandin D2 and E2 got controlled."

Gbolduev: "Basically the problem of POIS is as electrical as chemical. I agree than there are many reasons why the cortisol gets effected , but in 90% cases , it is the problem with copper."

Gbolduev: For people who are deficient in copper , POIS will be gone in 1 week/ It will lower your cortisol levels, your thyroid will start working, your dopamine serotonin ratio wil be fixed"

Show Posts - slavrs | Naked Science Forum
 

TheSir

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I think your view here is false. It has to do with something else. Injaculation doesn’t work. What causes the difference between men and women regarding post-coital problems is something I too have been wondering.
I'm unsure on what basis you're disagreeing. I hope it's not too much to ask you to elaborate. Stopping ejaculation with one technique or another allows one to skip the refractory period. This is the only way I know of. Even then, I think it's better to commit to either sex or abstinence instead of trying to somehow have the best of both worlds.
 
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@TheSir It's one of the reasons why I don't believe in love even with marriage and children 😅 a woman will always be insatiable...
 
OP
O

Orius

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I am aware of Pravda’s work, I have crohn's. I wish a similar theory for crohns was created, a theory that could lead to a similar advancement in treatment. It’s very good that yours is in remission, I hope that continues forever. I also am in remission but things can always change, and that uncertainty takes a toll on me.

Have you tried oral dhea? That’s what Ray Peat preferred. I don’t want to scare you, but read as much as possible about trt, as Ray Peat thought there were important negative aspects to consider with it, at least for general population. It’s good that your doctor does tests for you. Ray’s approach was to find what causes low T, and work on those causes to become healthier and normalise the T level. Thyroid, sugar, bone broth, calcium, vitamin d, dhea, eggs, saturated fat are some of the basic and most important things that can help with low T. Antibiotics can also help a lot.

I was on DHEA for years. Didn't fix my problems. I think the fears about TRT are overstated and mostly come from the 1990s. There are ways to do it safely now. Of course nothing is 100%, but being low T also comes with risks.

I followed the different protocols on this forum for years and they did not make me better, sorry to say. I'm not saying they don't work for anyone, just that they didn't work for me. It's one thing to read endless studies and design protocols based on that, it's another thing to experientially figure out what your body needs.

My thyroid and adrenals are normal. I've been chasing my tail with endocrine stuff for years. At this point I don't really care what the cause of my low T is. I just wanted it fixed and now I have my life back. No guarantees that this will be the fix forever but for now it's working wonders and I'm just going to go with that.
 

Logan-

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I'm unsure on what basis you're disagreeing. I hope it's not too much to ask you to elaborate. Stopping ejaculation with one technique or another allows one to skip the refractory period. This is the only way I know of. Even then, I think it's better to commit to either sex or abstinence instead of trying to somehow have the best of both worlds.
The aforementioned problems associated with male orgasm are caused by a chain reaction inside the body that start at the point of orgasm, regardless of ejaculation. There are multiple ways of orgasming without ejaculation of any kind; the problems still occur in those scenarios; so the problems are caused by changes that occur after the orgasm itself. Somehow orgasm affect men differently than it affects women. Sensitivity to prolactin and adrenaline are some of the things at play, I presume. Histamine, prostaglandins, serotonin, androgen hormones, estrogen, thyroid, nitric oxide, endotoxin, circulation, nervous system etc. all probably play a part in the differences between the two sexes regarding post-coital problems. Ray has talked and written extensively about progesterone’s protective and differentiating effects on females. Maybe this has an explanatory power on this subject. I once asked Ray Peat about my migraines that occur after orgasm; he said he doesn’t see any reason why that could happen (not verbatim).

Although what you wrote here in reply to a member’s thesis that people who suffer from the problems associated with pmo , “the nofappers”, have all basically pois should be kept in mind, as it is important. I can (should) only speak for my own experience, and try not to use it as the sole basis for deduction.

If I have sexual activity of any kind (with a woman or through masturbation), but don’t let myself orgasm, I suffer no illness. If I orgasm with OR without ejaculation, I suffer. Even a minor orgasm with no ejaculation can cause problems.

Vitamin b complex, bag-breathing, consuming lots of sugar, high dose progesterone, high dose vitamin k2 all can help to a degree. Aspirin would help a lot, but I cannot use nsaids due to crohns.

Edit: I’m going to start taking thyroid (t3+t4) again to better my metabolism. I hypothesise this could help significantly. Time will tell.

I think the source of the problems is the intestines. That’s what Ray has always said and wrote. I also think that probably most of the pois people or nofappers have intestinal problems. Hence the issues people have discovered with serotonin, histamine, prostaglandins, adrenaline, problems with blood sugar, nitric oxide, estrogen, endotoxin etc.
 
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Logan-

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I was on DHEA for years. Didn't fix my problems. I think the fears about TRT are overstated and mostly come from the 1990s. There are ways to do it safely now. Of course nothing is 100%, but being low T also comes with risks.

I followed the different protocols on this forum for years and they did not make me better, sorry to say. I'm not saying they don't work for anyone, just that they didn't work for me. It's one thing to read endless studies and design protocols based on that, it's another thing to experientially figure out what your body needs.

My thyroid and adrenals are normal. I've been chasing my tail with endocrine stuff for years. At this point I don't really care what the cause of my low T is. I just wanted it fixed and now I have my life back. No guarantees that this will be the fix forever but for now it's working wonders and I'm just going to go with that.
Again, I didn’t intend to scare you. It’s great that you feel much better and are in a better health altogether. Ray Peat himself was using testosterone. If you haven’t yet, you may benefit from researching how much and how he was taking the hormone, and what he thought about its use. When I researched the subject for a few days (in relation to body building), the worst aspect of it that stuck in my head was informed people and doctors talking about permanent testicular damage; though it is obvious your context is different from that of my readings, and you are under the supervision of a doctor who tests your hormonal panel altogether, presumably regularly, and is trying to correct a deficiency. By the way, bone broth and bamboo shoots are great at reducing intestinal inflammation. If you feel your UC is going downhill, you may benefit from eating these every day. Good luck, and take care.
 

Mister

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I was on DHEA for years. Didn't fix my problems. I think the fears about TRT are overstated and mostly come from the 1990s. There are ways to do it safely now. Of course nothing is 100%, but being low T also comes with risks.

I followed the different protocols on this forum for years and they did not make me better, sorry to say. I'm not saying they don't work for anyone, just that they didn't work for me. It's one thing to read endless studies and design protocols based on that, it's another thing to experientially figure out what your body needs.

My thyroid and adrenals are normal. I've been chasing my tail with endocrine stuff for years. At this point I don't really care what the cause of my low T is. I just wanted it fixed and now I have my life back. No guarantees that this will be the fix forever but for now it's working wonders and I'm just going to go with that.
Agreed.

Btw you ever tried HCG?
 
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