Think I've Found The Cause Of My Premature Ejaculation!

[Steve123]

Okay so after finding this world of ‘kegels’ ‘Reverse kegels’ ‘Pelvic floor’ ‘Hard Flacid’ etc etc for the first time in 7 years of having issues with erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation i’m finally getting somewhere.. (If you read my last post i basically masturbated a lot when i was 13 and a sharp pain came on with it, since then i’ve had Erection quality issues etc..)


Now i’ve always (without realising) masturbated and kegel’d or clenched to increase sensation and keep erection hard, really all i was doing was compensating for erectile dysfunction..Now the last few times i’ve been masturbating i’ve just been completely relaxing my pelvic floor, keeping everything super relaxed and deep breaths if need be.. and premature ejaculation has improved massively (I barely even feel anything like i’m kind of numb), but i’m left with weak erections now.. it takes a lot to keep it up when i’m in this relaxed pelvic state with no clenching.


So in my last post i explained that since i had that penile trauma back when i was 13, i’ve had mild hard flacid, erection pain, pain upon getting erection, erection quality, penile shrinkage etc.. really is all this pain i’ve experienced just from me excessively clenching while masturbating? I feel pain has been less since i’ve stopped clenching.


I always been on and off in the gym, in particular the last 2 years doing squats/deadlifts all big movements that require clenching.


Urologists always said everything's fine.


So great that i’ve finally got somewhere with the PE but what can i now do about my apparent erectile dysfunction? ? Is my erectile dysfunction now down to an overtrained pelvic floor and when i resolve that i’ll be better or Is it really now about looking at things like nofap etc? I think hormonally i am okay, testosterone is all good.

 

[Steve123]

@Jib

 

[Jib]

@Steve123

I've been experimenting with "reverse kegels." Basically it's all about relaxing the muscles that fire off during orgasm/ejaculation. It's like intense psychological training; the urge to ejaculate is so strong, it feels almost impossible to relax. But it does work. I've noticed that doing it successfully, I go from the brink of ejaculation to almost a numb feeling, but with a full erection, and feel I can last a lot longer. It's like the urge to orgasm "recedes."

I'm getting better at feeling the sensations. And am still convinced that changing masturbation habits and getting very familiar with how your ejaculation reflex feels can go a long way in correcting this problem. One idea I have is to change our brain's response to the urge to ejaculate: to recognize it as a sign to relax the muscles involved with ejacuation. A signal to relax and back off, instead of a signal to tense up and ejaculate.

For anyone struggling with severe PE, this is a pretty intense exercise and it's surprising how hard it is in heat of the moment to deliberately subdue your urge to ejaculate.

Haven't had sex in a while. So it's hard to tell how effective this is. Obviously I would prefer actual sex, but that's not an option right now.

FWIW, I didn't have such severe issues with premature ejaculation until after I started and stopped Rexulti, which affects 5-HT1A, 5-HT2C, and dopamine D2 receptors in the brain (and more). I had minor/moderate PE issues before, like I noticed if I really started going hard during sex, it was difficult for me to avoid ejaculating. Very difficult. But after the medication, I can't even penetrate without ejaculation. The last 7 times or so that I tried, it was ejaculation immediately upon penetration, mostly barely even halfway in. I never had that before starting this medication and it hasn't gone away since stopping it several months ago.

But I was on it for several months. So I'm hoping that several months off will have cleared out the negative effects from my system. Though I read about PSSD (Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction) and it scares me. I was not on an SSRI, but it was an atypical antipsychotic that affects serotonergic receptors in the brain pretty severely.

Glad you're finding success. I empathize with you a lot. This issue has gotten so bad for me I've become suicidal over it. So I know how serious it is. It is actually that bad. So you finding some success/results here is tremendous. I'm going to take this post to heart and try to practice more and see how much I can work towards overcoming this problem.

The idea of excessive tension makes complete sense to me. You'll notice when you get close to ejaculating, and feel the urge coming on, your pelvic floor will be very tight. The PC muscle. And it pulses repeatedly during orgasm/ejaculation. But before that happens, it tightens up. Paying close attention to this and training yourself to relax it certainly will go a long way. I'm hoping the same will apply for me.

As for ED, have you tried L-Citrulline?

Oral L-citrulline supplementation improves erection hardness in men with mild erectile dysfunction. - PubMed - NCBI

Oral L-citrulline supplementation improves erection hardness in men with mild erectile dysfunction.

CONCLUSIONS:
Although less effective than phosphodiesterase type-5 enzyme inhibitors, at least in the short term, L-citrulline supplementation has been proved to be safe and psychologically well accepted by patients. Its role as an alternative treatment for mild to moderate ED, particularly in patients with a psychologically fear of phosphodiesterase type-5 enzyme inhibitors, deserves further research.

 

[Steve123]

@Jib

Yeah the reverse kegel is what i'm looking into now! Honestly i've been masturbating with a clench all my life! Since i first started so it's pretty crazy that only now i have found out that one does not actually have to clench!! Yes honestly your thoughts on this really helped me a lot.. in the last few weeks i have definitely been able to see how powerful the mental aspect of it is, even though i did not believe that before. Looking at my self from a more third person view i've been able to see myself just getting overwhelmed mentally and has really helped me remind myself the importance of calming down.

Thats crazy about the rexulti.. i have never taken any sort of thing like that in my life if i am honest. I'm sure it will clear off eventually man.

Yeah man i really understand what your going through, gone through a lot of embarrassment about it the last few years. Your very right about the pulsing etc, i would have been doing this for years and just felt that it was part of the sexual act and for me it was a way to increase my erection.

Are you a member of the PEGym forum, i've found that really really helpful.

I will definitely take a look at the L-Citrulline, is there any side effects or reliance that can come about it?

Thanks a lot dude

 

[Jib]

@Steve123

Sure thing.

I'm not a member of PEgym but do lurk there once in a while. I'll have to check out some more on their info. Forums are usually the best. Tons of firsthand experience.

For the time being, I'm trying not to judge myself for my sexual performance. Crazy how I can feel shame even in complete isolation. I think this is all intertwined. The general consensus is that PE is more of a neurobiological than a psychological problem, but I think that's pretty disempowering.

Haven't done the Wim Hof method in a while. FWIW, I did that during sex once (girl on top), discretely enough, and it helped me last a lot longer. Like a lot longer. I generally don't agree with breathwork for PE but perhaps it isn't completely inappropriate to consider. Hyperventilating is a bit much, but it did work. Breath holding has not done too much for me however, and if anything, hyperventilating makes more sense. Was doing breath holding on the idea that building up CO2 might help relax me.

I think it has more to do with the psychological aspect, perhaps. I also have an extremely shy bladder. Can't go around anyone else. But I have found that speaking sentences in foreign languages in my head while trying to pee in public bathrooms actually helps me go. It distracts me or helps turn off the more anxious part of my brain somehow. At my old job I started learning a foreign language to talk with some co-workers.

And somehow quietly speaking or mouthing words in that language, and trying to think of how to construct sentences, conjugate, etc., helps me get past my shy bladder. Similarly people say things like "think about baseball" during sex to last longer.

My hope is to bypass the mental gymnastics and simply exert direct physiological control over ejaculation, with the least mental effort possible. Regular training of this reflex might be a way to achieve that. Reverse kegels (basically, the muscles you use/relax when you're trying to urinate, as opposed to normal kegels, where you tighten up as if to restrict the flow of urine)....it makes sense.

Anyway, keep us posted. Shame/fear and all sorts of psychological stuff is going on and certainly playing a role. It's all connected. I believe it's possible to beat even the most severe PE because I have to believe it's possible.

 

[Serotoninja]

I have found massaging my perineum with my fingers or a lacrosse ball to be very helpful for such issues (I used to struggle with ED but no PE though), reverse kegels work too and doing various hip stretches is always a good idea. I would also recommend to stop masturbating with your hands; if you can't have sex with a girl buy a fleshlight or a similar sextoy and f*ck it hands-free and imitate "natural" sex positions, if you have a muscular imbalance I think it's important to practice the right movements because muscles all work together. If you have an anterior pelvic tilt try to fix it. Obviously no porn and keep your thyroid function high.

 

[Frankdee20]

For me, I know it’s a serotonin deficiency... I can’t take any herbs or supplements that increase dopamine or libido enhancers give me severe agitated and anxiety... I also sleep like ***t

 

[metabolizm]

I think pelvic floor issues are the main cause of PE. As I understand it, the pelvic floor should be relatively relaxed up until the moment of orgasm. For those who suffer from PE, however, it's often "clenched" or contracting spasmodically way before the point of orgasm. The tension and swelling of the pelvic floor can have a direct stimulating impact on the prostate, causing you to ejaculate very quickly. Retraining of the pelvic floor muscles seems like the only solution. You could also try a muscle relaxant before sex.

 

[Frankdee20]

I think pelvic floor issues are the main cause of PE. As I understand it, the pelvic floor should be relatively relaxed up until the moment of orgasm. For those who suffer from PE, however, it's often "clenched" or contracting spasmodically way before the point of orgasm. The tension and swelling of the pelvic floor can have a direct stimulating impact on the prostate, causing you to ejaculate very quickly. Retraining of the pelvic floor muscles seems like the only solution. You could also try a muscle relaxant before sex.

So then reverse kegel is better than regular contraction ?

 

[Frankdee20]

@Steve123

I've been experimenting with "reverse kegels." Basically it's all about relaxing the muscles that fire off during orgasm/ejaculation. It's like intense psychological training; the urge to ejaculate is so strong, it feels almost impossible to relax. But it does work. I've noticed that doing it successfully, I go from the brink of ejaculation to almost a numb feeling, but with a full erection, and feel I can last a lot longer. It's like the urge to orgasm "recedes."

I'm getting better at feeling the sensations. And am still convinced that changing masturbation habits and getting very familiar with how your ejaculation reflex feels can go a long way in correcting this problem. One idea I have is to change our brain's response to the urge to ejaculate: to recognize it as a sign to relax the muscles involved with ejacuation. A signal to relax and back off, instead of a signal to tense up and ejaculate.

For anyone struggling with severe PE, this is a pretty intense exercise and it's surprising how hard it is in heat of the moment to deliberately subdue your urge to ejaculate.

Haven't had sex in a while. So it's hard to tell how effective this is. Obviously I would prefer actual sex, but that's not an option right now.

FWIW, I didn't have such severe issues with premature ejaculation until after I started and stopped Rexulti, which affects 5-HT1A, 5-HT2C, and dopamine D2 receptors in the brain (and more). I had minor/moderate PE issues before, like I noticed if I really started going hard during sex, it was difficult for me to avoid ejaculating. Very difficult. But after the medication, I can't even penetrate without ejaculation. The last 7 times or so that I tried, it was ejaculation immediately upon penetration, mostly barely even halfway in. I never had that before starting this medication and it hasn't gone away since stopping it several months ago.

But I was on it for several months. So I'm hoping that several months off will have cleared out the negative effects from my system. Though I read about PSSD (Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction) and it scares me. I was not on an SSRI, but it was an atypical antipsychotic that affects serotonergic receptors in the brain pretty severely.

Glad you're finding success. I empathize with you a lot. This issue has gotten so bad for me I've become suicidal over it. So I know how serious it is. It is actually that bad. So you finding some success/results here is tremendous. I'm going to take this post to heart and try to practice more and see how much I can work towards overcoming this problem.

The idea of excessive tension makes complete sense to me. You'll notice when you get close to ejaculating, and feel the urge coming on, your pelvic floor will be very tight. The PC muscle. And it pulses repeatedly during orgasm/ejaculation. But before that happens, it tightens up. Paying close attention to this and training yourself to relax it certainly will go a long way. I'm hoping the same will apply for me.

As for ED, have you tried L-Citrulline?

Oral L-citrulline supplementation improves erection hardness in men with mild erectile dysfunction. - PubMed - NCBI

Oral L-citrulline supplementation improves erection hardness in men with mild erectile dysfunction.

CONCLUSIONS:
Although less effective than phosphodiesterase type-5 enzyme inhibitors, at least in the short term, L-citrulline supplementation has been proved to be safe and psychologically well accepted by patients. Its role as an alternative treatment for mild to moderate ED, particularly in patients with a psychologically fear of phosphodiesterase type-5 enzyme inhibitors, deserves further research.

Citrulline is really hit or miss and you must take it every day, not just before sex....

 

[Jib]

Citrulline is really hit or miss and you must take it every day, not just before sex....

I wouldn't have an issue with it, except that it's expensive, you need to use a lot, and I've had some GI distress (diarrhea) from it. It seems to have some benefits, but yes, very inconvenient. It actually does taste very good to me, love the malic acid taste, but the GI distress isn't worth it. L-citrulline is the main ingredient in most "pre-workout" supplements.

So then reverse kegel is better than regular contraction ?

I think so. I was trying regular kegels for a couple months. Didn't notice many improvements. It also feels pretty uncomfortably and cringey for me to do. I just don't like the bodily sensation of it, it makes me nauseous. The psychological distress I got from doing the exercise regularly forced me to stop and I feel dizzy if I even think about it. It's very strange but I've always been this way with some bodily sensations.

Reverse kegels don't induce this 'cringe' feeling in my body. I'm not sure if it's actually working muscles to do reverse kegels, though? Feels more like intentionally relaxing the muscles. I think of it as simply trying to urinate -- same feeling.

I can't imagine actively 'relaxing' during missionary/doggy style. One time, I did Wim Hof breathing when she was on top...lol. But it worked. It seriously did. I think the hyperventilation shut something in my body down and kept me from ejaculating. Normally I would hardly last 10 seconds of vigorous stimulation, but I lasted over 10 minutes with her going absolutely crazy on top of me. I managed to mix in the very odd breathing with some sexual sounds so she didn't notice, lmao. Worst thing would be the girl saying "what the hell are you doing?" as you do some weirdo breathing exercise trying not to nut...lmao.

But it did work. I think having the girl on top can make it easier to relax. When you're doing all the work, all the tension/engagement can make it hard to not ejaculate.

IMO, I'll stick with reverse kegels. It's possible normal kegels can help, but most people that recommend them seem to not have PE at all. Like the PC muscle gets stronger, and they can forcefully contract it to prevent ejaculation...but that's only useful if you don't have PE, and the urge to ejaculate only happens very, very rarely for you, outside of your control. Like a once in a blue moon thing where a strong PC muscle can save you in a pinch.

For people with actual PE, I can't see how that would help. I agree that relaxing the muscles is much more helpful.

Keep in mind: point and shoot. Point = Parasympathetic, erection. Shoot = Sympathetic, ejaculation. It's all about relaxation. That's the tricky part.

 

[Frankdee20]

I wouldn't have an issue with it, except that it's expensive, you need to use a lot, and I've had some GI distress (diarrhea) from it. It seems to have some benefits, but yes, very inconvenient. It actually does taste very good to me, love the malic acid taste, but the GI distress isn't worth it. L-citrulline is the main ingredient in most "pre-workout" supplements.



I think so. I was trying regular kegels for a couple months. Didn't notice many improvements. It also feels pretty uncomfortably and cringey for me to do. I just don't like the bodily sensation of it, it makes me nauseous. The psychological distress I got from doing the exercise regularly forced me to stop and I feel dizzy if I even think about it. It's very strange but I've always been this way with some bodily sensations.

Reverse kegels don't induce this 'cringe' feeling in my body. I'm not sure if it's actually working muscles to do reverse kegels, though? Feels more like intentionally relaxing the muscles. I think of it as simply trying to urinate -- same feeling.

I can't imagine actively 'relaxing' during missionary/doggy style. One time, I did Wim Hof breathing when she was on top...lol. But it worked. It seriously did. I think the hyperventilation shut something in my body down and kept me from ejaculating. Normally I would hardly last 10 seconds of vigorous stimulation, but I lasted over 10 minutes with her going absolutely crazy on top of me. I managed to mix in the very odd breathing with some sexual sounds so she didn't notice, lmao. Worst thing would be the girl saying "what the hell are you doing?" as you do some weirdo breathing exercise trying not to nut...lmao.

But it did work. I think having the girl on top can make it easier to relax. When you're doing all the work, all the tension/engagement can make it hard to not ejaculate.

IMO, I'll stick with reverse kegels. It's possible normal kegels can help, but most people that recommend them seem to not have PE at all. Like the PC muscle gets stronger, and they can forcefully contract it to prevent ejaculation...but that's only useful if you don't have PE, and the urge to ejaculate only happens very, very rarely for you, outside of your control. Like a once in a blue moon thing where a strong PC muscle can save you in a pinch.

For people with actual PE, I can't see how that would help. I agree that relaxing the muscles is much more helpful.

Keep in mind: point and shoot. Point = Parasympathetic, erection. Shoot = Sympathetic, ejaculation. It's all about relaxation. That's the tricky part.

Yeah for me, the girl on top position seems to last the longest.... Doggy is the worst (and I’ve seen this mentioned too) and missionary is hit or miss, but generally miss lol... Also, the first nut of the session seems to be the most eager to escape lol

Also, Citrulline doesn’t cause as much GI issues as Arginine... I agree though, it needs at least 6 grams a day .... divided doses help to minimize low pulse rate....

 

[Dino D]

For me, I know it’s a serotonin deficiency... I can’t take any herbs or supplements that increase dopamine or libido enhancers give me severe agitated and anxiety... I also sleep like ***t

how do you know?

what about herbs that increase serotonine, or food (whey and co) how do they work on your libido?

 

[Frankdee20]

how do you know?

what about herbs that increase serotonine, or food (whey and co) how do they work on your libido?

Well I know because things like Tribulus, Ginseng, Longjack, all cause severe insomnia and physical and internal agitation.... Also, Tyrosine and or Phenylalanine all cause the same issue, severe agitation and internal tension and horrible mental rigidity.... oral DHEA does this to me as well ... it’s awful....and they do nothing for my libido except make me dwell on anxiety and make me dwell on weather they should be doing something.... I can tolerate coffee to an extent, after 4 cups it’s anxiety inducing

 

[Collden]

You ever try Wim Hof Method breathing exercises? There is one guy who claimed it completely cured his PE, and it would make sense based on the notion that PE is caused by an overactive sympathetic nervous system, which is what you learn to control using WHM.

 

[Frankdee20]

Things like oral GABA and

You ever try Wim Hof Method breathing exercises? There is one guy who claimed it completely cured his PE, and it would make sense based on the notion that PE is caused by an overactive sympathetic nervous system, which is what you learn to control using WHM.

What neurotransmitters are implicated in lowering this parasympathetic system ?

 

[redsun]

Things like oral GABA and


What neurotransmitters are implicated in lowering this parasympathetic system ?

Lowering the sympathetic you mean? Sympathetic is controlled by noradrenaline and adrenaline so these two are causing PE (i think its mostly noradrenaline). While parasympathetic is the libido and sex drive and primarily controlled by acetylcholine. So lowering noradrenaline would help PE. Hyperventilation would reduce the sympathetic because CO2 is dropping so in order to prevent too low CO2 sympathetic system is inhibited so you dont breathe to normalize CO2 again.

 

[Collden]

Things like oral GABA and


What neurotransmitters are implicated in lowering this parasympathetic system ?

Mostly adrenaline/noradrenaline. The idea is that the WHM breathing, involving voluntary hyperventilation and temporary CO2 deprivation, will induce a very strong activation of the sympathetic nervous system. Over time as you keep doing the exercises, your body becomes better and better at calming itself down from this SNS activation, as it does so you will become less susceptible to issues of runaway SNS activation like PE, otherwise called autonomic dysfunction.

I haven't really tested if it holds true for PE but WHM definitely has powerful effects on the SNS so it could work over time.

 

[metabolizm]

So then reverse kegel is better than regular contraction ?

Yes, I would say so. I don't think there's any need to contract it at any point, other than during orgasm (during which it's involuntary anyway). I hope someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Luk3]

PC muscles are definitely the dominating factor for me. Now that I’m aware of the issue, things have improved, as I consciously attempt to control them. However, they do still tighten involuntarily for me, and that causes PE at times. Reverse kegels during sex/masturbation helps a lot to delay ejaculation, and I also do stretches to relieve tension in the pelvic floor. I’d recommended searching YouTube. There are plenty of yoga stretches on there.