Ejaculatory Exhaustion

[Collden]

Abstaining from orgasm acts like a stimulant. If you need a stimulant to function the problem is likely that you are overtaxing yourself or not recovering enough in other areas of your life and using the stimulant action of abstention to cover it up. How much do you eat a day? Do you have at least three regular meals? How much and how well do you sleep? How hard and how long do you work out in the gym? Maybe you need to take a break from weight lifting? How stressful is your job?

You say when you ejaculate your body becomes sore all over and all you wanna do is sleep, that sounds more like symptoms of chronic overexercising.

 

[Jing]

Abstaining from orgasm acts like a stimulant. If you need a stimulant to function the problem is likely that you are overtaxing yourself or not recovering enough in other areas of your life and using the stimulant action of abstention to cover it up. How much do you eat a day? Do you have at least three regular meals? How much and how well do you sleep? How hard and how long do you work out in the gym? Maybe you need to take a break from weight lifting? How stressful is your job?

You say when you ejaculate your body becomes sore all over and all you wanna do is sleep, that sounds more like symptoms of chronic overexercising.

I eat 5 times a day sometimes more with drinking orange juice in between meals, changing my diet hasn't made a difference to this .. sleep isn't the best but I do get around 8 hours but ejaculation also makes my sleep worse I sleep better when I have been abstaining for a week . I have done weight lifting from teenage years but I have only just started up again last month from a year and a half break so lifting weights isn't the problem, I have a fair bit of stress In my life which abstaining makes easier to deal with.

 

[Collden]

Ah sorry, just realized you are not the OP.

I'll say this, abstaining for a short while is always going to raise your dopamine which will invariably make you feel better and more energized in the moment, which can be useful sometimes, but just because doing something makes you feel good temporarily doesnt mean that it is good for you in the long run, see cocaine or fasting. Especially not when you come to get dependent on that feeling and cannot accept feeling any other way. Part of living a good and healthy life is learning to accept that you will not feel great all the time, but finding a balance between good/bad and accepting all your feelings, realize that you cannot feel alert without feeling fatigued sometimes, you cant feel motivated and energized without sometimes feeling unmotivated and lethargic.

But since you have chronic prostatitis you may have different good reasons to avoid ejaculation.

 

[Luk3]

Yh 231 mu/l so about 12 this was the day after ejaculation

Getting close to the top end, then. I think I read that Peat thinks about 5 is optimal for men.

 

[xetawaves]

Also lots of ejaculating gives me hard flaccid.

Update?

 

[Jam]

Well, dopamine is also a stress hormone

 

[Orius]

Just an update. I fixed the problem by getting on TRT. My life is completely different now. I can ejaculate pretty much as often as I want and not feel tired, within reason.

 

[Highserotonin90]

@Orius Check your estrogen and prolactin, and this time too it could be an acute response and as the weeks go by, if you don't change your therapy, you could find yourself back to square one.

 

[Logan-]

Just an update. I fixed the problem by getting on TRT. My life is completely different now. I can ejaculate pretty much as often as I want and not feel tired, within reason.

Interesting. I second the below member’s advice. Tests are important. Let us know.

 

[Orius]

I've been on TRT for months and my prolactin and estrogen are stable, along with my other biomarkers. My doctor has been extremely comprehensive. My protocol is fully dialed in. This is the best therapy I have ever done. Even my autoimmune condition has gone into remission. The only downside I'm experiencing is male pattern hair loss, but I'll take it over all the other health problems I had.

 

[Logan-]

I've been on TRT for months and my prolactin and estrogen are stable, along with my other biomarkers. My doctor has been extremely comprehensive. My protocol is fully dialed in. This is the best therapy I have ever done. Even my autoimmune condition has gone into remission. The only downside I'm experiencing is male pattern hair loss, but I'll take it over all the other health problems I had.

Very interesting. What led you to decide to use TRT? How do you take, and how much? Could you share the autoimmune condition? I also have one. Diet helped me a lot in putting it into remission. Thanks for sharing your experience with the forum. I am surprised others haven’t replied to it yet.

 

[Orius]

Did blood work and found out I was in the lower range of normal with T. I take 100mg T every 5 days which for me is the sweet spot. I also take HCG 500IU twice weekly to prevent testicular atrophy.

My autoimmune disease is ulcerative colitis. I have one of the most severe forms doctors have ever seen. In remission now though. I also take high dose antioxidant therapy because I have poor antioxidant genes, and I feel that keeps my UC at bay.

I went with this doctor's theory to put my UC in remission:

Evidence-based pathogenesis and treatment of ulcerative colitis: A causal role for colonic epithelial hydrogen peroxide

In this comprehensive evidence-based analysis of ulcerative colitis (UC), a causal role is identified for colonic epithelial hydrogen peroxide (H[2] O[2] ) in both the pathogenesis and relapse of this debilitating inflammatory bowel disease. Studies have ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

As far as I'm concerned this guy discovered the root cause and cure of UC. Dihhydrolipoic acid, the reduced form of RLA.

 

[Explorer]

What are you describing is literally POIS post orgasmic illness syndrome

Check out r/POIS and Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.) - Index where the various root causes/cure stories are documented

This guy removed gluten, took garlic+fenugreek (don't recommend fenugreek as it's anti-DHT pro-prolactin) and his POIS cured, others got cured by antibiotics e.g. Amoxicilin


View: https://youtu.be/80wts6prt6A


When I took Amoxicilin 825mg+125mg clauvinic acid for 4 days the post-ejaculation 1-2 day decreased erection hardness improved and I could get a very hard erection even if I had ejaculated once and my POIS also improved, 500mg Aspirin daily too reduces the symptoms so it's in many cases an endotoxin/histamine/prostaglandin/inflammation issue

 

[Explorer]

Did blood work and found out I was in the lower range of normal with T. I take 100mg T every 5 days which for me is the sweet spot. I also take HCG 500IU twice weekly to prevent testicular atrophy.

My autoimmune disease is ulcerative colitis. I have one of the most severe forms doctors have ever seen. In remission now though. I also take high dose antioxidant therapy because I have poor antioxidant genes, and I feel that keeps my UC at bay.

I went with this doctor's theory to put my UC in remission:

Evidence-based pathogenesis and treatment of ulcerative colitis: A causal role for colonic epithelial hydrogen peroxide

In this comprehensive evidence-based analysis of ulcerative colitis (UC), a causal role is identified for colonic epithelial hydrogen peroxide (H[2] O[2] ) in both the pathogenesis and relapse of this debilitating inflammatory bowel disease. Studies have ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

As far as I'm concerned this guy discovered the root cause and cure of UC. Dihhydrolipoic acid, the reduced form of RLA.

You said you have an autoimmune disorder

POIS post orgasmic illness syndrome which you have but likely never heard of it's name as you may have been brainwashed by SR-nofap terms like "sexual exhaustion" or "PMO addiction" when in reality most of the SRers-nofappers who have those post-ejaculation symptoms actually have some form of POIS

In a study a guy got cured by HCG

Successful treatment of Post-orgasmic illness syndrome with human chorionic gonadotropin

Post-orgasmic illness syndrome (POIS) is an uncommon condition in which men experience debilitating symptoms following orgasm, including anxiety, weakness, and lassitude. The etiology is unknown, and treatment challenging. We present a 25y man with POIS ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Explorer]

I eat 5 times a day sometimes more with drinking orange juice in between meals, changing my diet hasn't made a difference to this .. sleep isn't the best but I do get around 8 hours but ejaculation also makes my sleep worse I sleep better when I have been abstaining for a week . I have done weight lifting from teenage years but I have only just started up again last month from a year and a half break so lifting weights isn't the problem, I have a fair bit of stress In my life which abstaining makes easier to deal with.

What you have is POIS, read about it

r/POIS

r/POIS: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS) is a debilitating condition in which a person chronically experiences symptoms after orgasm including …

reddit.com

Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.) - Index

Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.) - Index

poiscenter.com

In many cases it is histamine/glutamate/inflammation release post-ejaculation
In some cases it has been a bacterial issue in prostate or somewhere else as many got 100% cured by antibiotics/antifungals

In a study a guy got cured by HCG

Successful treatment of Post-orgasmic illness syndrome with human chorionic gonadotropin

Post-orgasmic illness syndrome (POIS) is an uncommon condition in which men experience debilitating symptoms following orgasm, including anxiety, weakness, and lassitude. The etiology is unknown, and treatment challenging. We present a 25y man with POIS ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A lot of people have POIS but due to never hearing about it and seeing the root-cause perspective on it they fall into the "everyone has those symptoms and it's normal" rabbithole or the "PMO addiction" rabbithole even though for many POISers they get it by wet dreams or real sex too even if not using porn or masturbating for months or years thus invalidating the whole PMO addiction theory as many have had it since the first time as the underlying imbalance was likely always there

One guy got it after the infamous jab, /u/moviefan2222 on Reddit , his doctor discovered increased blood clotting and suggested it is a histamine receptor autoimmunity or something along those lines and he has POTS-like symptoms too since it, so it shows those type MCAS-ish conditions often go all together

 

[Explorer]

The irony is that it is actually refraining from ejaculation that can create a neurochemical dependency due to its effect of raising dopamine. Orgasm causes a surge of prolactin which potently inhibits dopamine signaling. By not getting regular sexual release you are entraining your brain to a state of chronically elevated dopamine due to the lack of prolactin release.

This is likely why people who rarely orgasm report feeling so shitty when they do occasionally get a sexual release. I find that the longer I go with regular and frequent sexual release, the less of a negative effect it has, because the brain becomes resensitized to dopamine.

Also, the average ejaculate contains like 3% of the RDI for zinc, much less of the other nutrients. Ejaculation does not cause any meaningful loss of nutrients. You'd probably increase your zinc requirements more by walking around the block than by orgasming.

Exactly - the post-ejaculation symptoms talked of in most cases got nothing to do with nutrient loss or magical chi loss or some such stuff

It's mostly glutamate/prolactin/serotonin/histamine/prostaglandin increase as indicated by many getting 100% cured and even getting nofap-like state of being even when ejaculating often e.g. by taking antibiotics or cyproheptadine

The whole basis of sr-nofap claims on the cause for the bad feelings post-ejaculation are founded on BS that derives from a lack of Peat-conscious understanding of health, hormones, sexuality and energy

 

[Explorer]

Here's a sobering thought... sex is for procreation only. Doing it for recreation is akin to doing drugs. Sobering thought, I know. Hard pill to swallow!!

That's bull**** for various reason - there's a possibility those ideas that semen/sex is this precious thing you must preserve for a very rare occasion to procreate or otherwise all ills will happen, that this idea exists due to various people historically who had POIS post orgasmic illness syndrome which in itself is a hormonal-metabolic-biological disbalance not some inherent feature everyone has due to losing their magical chi

So what likely happened was in history those with higher positions in society e.g. priests etc. if they had some form of POIS or just hormone imbalance/less vitality , they assumed the negative feelings they get post-ejaculation is what everyone has, if they never experienced a symptom-less release it would strengthen this conviction even more in their minds so they'd then go on publish those books like the importance of semen preservation, negative side effects of onanism and such

What they didn't realize is that it's not that ejaculation itself is this universally bad thing that makes them feel that way, it's just that ejaculation ACTIVATES the underlying imbalance they have that leads to such symptoms but it's not the root cause per se

It's why there are people who swear by Semen retention-nofap and talk of all those benefits (the "benefits" are one getting out of the imbalanced post-ejaculation symptoms of POIS post orgasmic illness syndrome not an accumulation per se it's more the decrease of the output of negative post-ejaculation factors involved in POIS rather than an accumulation by SR)

While others say they can fap/have sex daily with 0 issues on mental clarity/energy as those people have a better more optimized biology/hormones/etc. so they never had such symptoms in first place

This historical possibility of clusters of POISers probably lead to, leads and will continue leading to (as long as there are POIS experiencers who aren't aware it's not a normal thing that everyone has) to development of popularity of those semen retention-nofap ideas

It also shows the tendency for humans to attribute explanations to the first immediate symbolic association for a factor

E.g. one feels bad by ejaculation - semen = can make offspring so the idea of the bad feeling being due to losing life force is formed

This is probably how those Semen Retention ideas appeared, in past there was way less knowledge of hormones/biology/etc. you couldn't just go to a laboratory or open up internet and read that prolactin or histamine if elevated can cause x or y symptom and ejaculation can elevate those - if one ejaculated and felt bad the first thought that would come to mind would be "I just released the fluid that can also make offspring and I feel brain fogged, more fatigued etc. (keep in mind those are hormonal-biochemical reactions not due to a loss of some magical substance in semen itself) so clearly if this fluid exits me and makes me feel bad and not letting it exit makes me feel good then it must be a literal Chi life-force

^ while on an association-basis this seems like a valid explanation there are far more factors involved in orgasm/ejaculation/sexuality that can induce various mental physical changes thus this shows how various POISers throughout the times could have contributed to the increasing of the fame of those type ideas of semen being this magical fluid that if you lose you get all those symptoms - they simply didn't have the extent of knowledge and/or the awareness of others not feeling the same, to realize

 

[TheSir]

@Explorer The existence of POIS and the existence of non-POIS detrimental consequences of sexual excess don't have to be mutually exclusive. You might not be wrong to hypothesize that POIS has influenced the popular perception of masturbation along the history of mankind -- it's a solid assumption. However, postulating that any harm to wellbeing resulting from sexual activity can be identified to be a consequence of POIS is most likely an instance of your own personal experience and lack of further knowledge enabling you to make a misguided argument.

To give a few examples from elsewhere in the animal kingdom, race horses remain celibate until they retire, otherwise they will not win any races. Bulls are often allowed to inseminate cows only for a limited amount of time, after which they start producing subpar offspring. Worms live 30-50% longer when they're prevented from reproducing.

In similar fashion, all cultures of past and present have independently discovered that sexual activity comes with a certain price, and that not even the highest degree of health will let one avoid paying this price. The price may not be as instantaneous and crippling as is the case with POIS, yet in the end it is much more fatal; POIS or not, ejaculation truly is la petite mort

 

[Logan-]

Did blood work and found out I was in the lower range of normal with T. I take 100mg T every 5 days which for me is the sweet spot. I also take HCG 500IU twice weekly to prevent testicular atrophy.

My autoimmune disease is ulcerative colitis. I have one of the most severe forms doctors have ever seen. In remission now though. I also take high dose antioxidant therapy because I have poor antioxidant genes, and I feel that keeps my UC at bay.

I went with this doctor's theory to put my UC in remission:

Evidence-based pathogenesis and treatment of ulcerative colitis: A causal role for colonic epithelial hydrogen peroxide

In this comprehensive evidence-based analysis of ulcerative colitis (UC), a causal role is identified for colonic epithelial hydrogen peroxide (H[2] O[2] ) in both the pathogenesis and relapse of this debilitating inflammatory bowel disease. Studies have ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

As far as I'm concerned this guy discovered the root cause and cure of UC. Dihhydrolipoic acid, the reduced form of RLA.

I am aware of Pravda’s work, I have crohn's. I wish a similar theory for crohns was created, a theory that could lead to a similar advancement in treatment. It’s very good that yours is in remission, I hope that continues forever. I also am in remission but things can always change, and that uncertainty takes a toll on me.

Have you tried oral dhea? That’s what Ray Peat preferred. I don’t want to scare you, but read as much as possible about trt, as Ray Peat thought there were important negative aspects to consider with it, at least for general population. It’s good that your doctor does tests for you. Ray’s approach was to find what causes low T, and work on those causes to become healthier and normalise the T level. Thyroid, sugar, bone broth, calcium, vitamin d, dhea, eggs, saturated fat are some of the basic and most important things that can help with low T. Antibiotics can also help a lot.

 

[Highserotonin90]

@TheSir Maybe it's not inherent but in porn they probably use a quantity of drugs equal to a bodybuilder... can you explain to me why a woman can have continuous sexual intercourse (even with coming?) while a man needs a refractory period? I hope I haven't said something stupid