Keto Diet Craze May Lead To Reduced Bone Health: Research

[GreekDemiGod]

May I ask, were you eating grain- fed beef or grass- fed beef?

60% grain-fed and 40% grass-fed

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

60% grain-fed and 40% grass-fed

Thanks.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

TBH I'm not even sure about whether recommended daily intake for calcium should be as high as it is now. There was an interesting theory proposed by some guy that noticed that osteoporosis is much more prevalent in the dairy-consuming West than in the not-so-dairy-consuming East. Essentially bone mineral density is much higher in middle aged Western adults than in middle aged Eastern adults whereas the opposite is true for the older populations. His theory is that excessive calcium intake throughout a lifetime leads to your osteoblasts overproducing bone matter and you essentially "wear them out" by the time you reach old age. It's an interesting theory which I'd rather wasn't true because I tolerate dairy really well and I'd go mad just eating eggs to get my nutrients..... If you want to see more about this theory check out his webpage Excessive Calcium Causes Osteoporosis

I've also heard that, hereditarily, Westerners have, for hundreds of years, had more calcium in their diets and, thus, they require more calcium in their diets. That would make more sense than yet another theory based on the idea that we're just made of parts that wear out like in cars. With each each passing decade, more and more of the things that "we only have a limited supply of" like brain cells are shown to be synthesized by the body. We made it before, why can't we make it again?

Was his name Hansel Keys? Did he happen to look like Ancel Keys wearing a handlebar mustache?

Good one, love it.

 

[baccheion]

Orange juice is definitely acidic and can damage the teeth (anything under 5.5 pH can), although when I get freshly squeezed it doesn't taste sour so I imagine the pH is closer to 7 than the generic stuff (which I am sure they add acid to). I follow my orange juice with a little piece of cheese or I rinse my mouth out with water or I sprinkle some baking soda in my mouth. Even though cheese is slightly acidic, it seems to increase the saliva pH to basic and keeps it there for a while. It also has the potential to mineralize the teeth on the same level as CCP-ACP.

Sugar isn't directly bad for the teeth as it's not acidic. If your mouth is 'sterile' then sugar posses no threat to the teeth.

I guess if you ate a cup of cooked collards for every 100g of steak then you'd have a 1 to 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. I have never seen bone broth analyzed for calcium content or mineral content generally.

Calcium bioavailability from collards is 2x what's typical. That is, 1 cup (cooked) can handle ~400-500 mg phosphorus.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Calcium bioavailability from collards is 2x what's typical. That is, 1 cup (cooked) can handle ~400-500 mg phosphorus.

Do you have any source for this? I remember reading that in a paleo site years ago, but never really seen any evidence of that.

 

[milkbasedvegan]

This low calcium approach to dieting makes no sense

Quoting Ray...

Calcium, magnesium, vitamin A, vitamin B6- , vitamin K, and vitamin D are important for the development and maintenance of bones. For example, a vitamin A deficiency limits the synthesis of progesterone and proteins. In calcium deficiency, parathyroid hormone is increased, and tends to cause the typical changes of aging, shifting calcium from hard tissues to soft, and decreasing the ratio of extracellular to intracellular (excitatory) calcium.

Polyunsaturated fats are converted to prostaglandins (especially under the influence of estrogen), and several prostaglandins have toxic effects on bone. Those fats also suppress the formation of thyroid hormone and progesterone. The increased use of the unsaturated oils has coincided with the increase of osteoporosis.

The oxidation of proteins caused by free radicals is increased with aging and by the use of unsaturated fats, and it contributes to tissue atrophy, including the age-related shrinkage of the bones. In animal studies, “adequate” dietary protein, 13.8% of the diet (equivalent to about 80 grams per day for a person) is associated with more oxidative damage to tissue proteins than the very high protein diets, 25.7% or 51.3%, that would be equivalent to about 150 or 300 grams of protein daily for a person.[27] Yet, many physicians recommend a low protein diet to protect against osteoporosis.

Stop blaming the wrong guys for disease, and eat that calcium (and magnesium!)

ROS and intracellular calcium are the root cause of all modern disease. Dietary calcium (and magnesium!) prevent intracellular calcium accumulation.

Reactive oxygen species, nutrition, hypoxia and diseases: Problems solved?

 

[milkbasedvegan]

TBH I'm not even sure about whether recommended daily intake for calcium should be as high as it is now. There was an interesting theory proposed by some guy that noticed that osteoporosis is much more prevalent in the dairy-consuming West than in the not-so-dairy-consuming East. Essentially bone mineral density is much higher in middle aged Western adults than in middle aged Eastern adults whereas the opposite is true for the older populations. His theory is that excessive calcium intake throughout a lifetime leads to your osteoblasts overproducing bone matter and you essentially "wear them out" by the time you reach old age. It's an interesting theory which I'd rather wasn't true because I tolerate dairy really well and I'd go mad just eating eggs to get my nutrients..... If you want to see more about this theory check out his webpage Excessive Calcium Causes Osteoporosis

don’t believe everything you read on the internet an awful lot of people have some hypothesis, cherry pick data that fits the hypothesis, and think their theory is the answer to disease. Unfortunately, it should be the other way around: you look at data and evidence AND THEN you start thinking and writing a solid hypothesis, factoring in what’s refuting this hypothesis. That’s why I don’t have a blog and I refuse to have one until I’m feeling like I’ve clearly read it all. And there is a lot to read!

just look at this:
The Magnesium-calcium ratio Hypothesis

What the science says:
Hypertension, Diabetes Mellitus, and Insulin Resistance: The Role of Intracellular Magnesium

Of course magnesium is crucial. This website is therefore disqualified - quackery with preemptive jumping to conclusions combined with ignorance of the opposing side : C-

 

[berk]

Found this in the local paper. I was listening to the Danny Roddy podcast with Haidut about Osteoporosis for the last 2 weeks and had to chuckle when i saw it.

https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/he...ced-bone-health-research-20200204-p53xkd.html



Ray Peat wins again......

not really... reduce of bone health on low carb diet mostly come from low pottasium intake.
Low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets that restrict potassium-rich fruits and vegetables promote calciuria

 

[milkbasedvegan]

Eventually people are going to realize that potassium, Calcium, magnesium, vitamins ABCDEK are ALL important and that micro nutrient deficiencies drive disease. People always talk in terms of macros tho... as if that mattered