Estrogen in Tea for Stronger Bones

[AlphaCog]

There's Something to Be Said for Having 'Tea Bones'​

Written by Jeanie Lerche Davis

April 13, 2000 (Atlanta) -- Ladies, start your teapots! A new study from England shows that tea may build and strengthen bones -- protecting women against osteoporosis. If milk is added to the tea, the benefit is boosted even more.

Although several studies have cited caffeine intake a risk factor for osteoporosis and hip fracture in women, at least two European studies have reported that tea drinking protected against hip breaks.

The current study shows that "the magnitude of the effects of drinking tea was notable," writes lead author Verona M. Hegarty, PhD, a gerontology researcher at England's University of Cambridge School of Medicine. Older women who drank tea had higher bone mineral density measurements, an indicator of bone health, than those who did not drink tea. "Nutrients found in tea ... [may] protect against osteoporosis in older women," concludes Hegarty.

Her study, which involved over 1,200 women living in Cambridge, is published in this month's issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
The women completed questionnaires regarding their health and lifestyle that included questions on daily tea and coffee consumption, smoking habits, physical activity, alcohol intake, whether they drank caffeinated or decaffeinated coffee, whether coffee was instant or ground, whether they used hormone replacement therapy, if they added milk to tea, and so on. Each also had their bone mineral density measured, which showed bone strength in the spine and the area where hip breaks most often occur.

Among the women, there were over 1,100 tea drinkers and just about 120 non-tea drinkers, all between the ages of 65 and 76.

Tea drinkers had significantly greater bone mineral density measurements. Among coffee drinkers, those who also drank tea had significantly higher measurements as well.

"These findings were independent of smoking status, use of hormone replacement therapy, coffee drinking, and whether milk was added to tea," says Hegarty. Also, number of cups of tea per day did not seem to play a role, and women who added milk to their tea had much higher bone mineral density in the hip area.

Though more study is needed, Hegarty suggests that tea has components that weakly mimic the effect of the female hormone, estrogen -- documented by other researchers -- and may be important in maintaining bone mineral density in postmenopausal women. Hegarty writes that tea's attributes may have little effect in younger women and men but may be important in keeping bones healthy in older women.

"This research presents some interesting findings," Pamela Meyers, PhD, tells WebMD. "Most research on teas, especially on green tea, has looked at its ability to lower risks of cancer and heart disease. This is the first I have seen that has researched the effects of tea on BMD." Meyers is a clinical nutritionist and assistant professor at Kennesaw State University near Atlanta.
However, says Meyers, she would like to see more complete data on intake of animal protein, calcium, caffeinated sodas and exercise -- all factors that can affect bone density. She reminds women that high consumption of protein and sodas may increase risk of osteoporosis, whereas extra calcium and exercise can improve bone density. "I would like to see more studies into the [estrogen effects] of tea, both green and black," she says.

Vital Information:​

• Scientific research has shown that caffeine consumption increases the risk of osteoporosis, but a new study shows that tea may actually offer a protective effect against the disease.
• In a British study, women who consumed tea had significantly greater bone mineral density when compared to non-tea drinkers.
• Researchers suspect that substances in tea can mimic the effects of estrogen in protecting bones.

Tea for Stronger Bones?

A new study from England shows that tea may build and strengthen bones -- protecting women against osteoporosis. If milk is added to the tea, the benefit is boosted even more.

www.webmd.com

 

[Limon9]

Lol.

 

[Mister]

Well some teas are anti androgenic.

 

[Christopher R.]

Has anyone here experienced health benefits from drinking tea?

 

[GTW]

Brit tea drinking also associated with high fluoride.

 

[EustaceBagge]

How do you know 100% sure that it is the estrogen causing the benefits of tea and not some other substance which might be unidentified or not credited accordingly?

 

[DoctorBackwards]

i don't mean to insult any of the old ladies who drink the tea, but i would imagine all that extra bone density comes from the stress of carrying a big, dumpy, mottled estrogenic body around and the accumulation of flouride in the bones, particularly the long bones. The English get few things right, as a general rule, and the other large group of people who love their tea are the Chinese, so...

 

[AlphaCog]

Estrogen and bone metabolism​

Abstract​

Estrogen plays an important role in the growth and maturation of bone as well as in the regulation of bone turnover in adult bone. During bone growth estrogen is needed for proper closure of epiphyseal growth plates both in females and in males. Also in young skeleton estrogen deficiency leads to increased osteoclast formation and enhanced bone resorption. In menopause estrogen deficiency induces cancellous as well as cortical bone loss. Highly increased bone resorption in cancellous bone leads to general bone loss and destruction of local architecture because of penetrative resorption and microfractures. In cortical bone the first response of estrogen withdrawal is enhanced endocortical resorption. Later, also intracortical porosity increases. These lead to decreased bone mass, disturbed architecture and reduced bone strength. At cellular level in bone estrogen inhibits differentiation of osteoclasts thus decreasing their number and reducing the amount of active remodeling units. This effect is probably mediated through some cytokines, IL-1 and IL-6 being strongest candidates. Estrogen regulates the expression of IL-6 in bone marrow cells by a so far unknown mechanism. It is still uncertain if the effects of estrogen on osteoblasts is direct or is due to coupling phenomenon between bone formation to resorption.

Estrogen and bone metabolism - PubMed

Estrogen plays an important role in the growth and maturation of bone as well as in the regulation of bone turnover in adult bone. During bone growth estrogen is needed for proper closure of epiphyseal growth plates both in females and in males. Also in young skeleton estrogen deficiency leads...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Estrogen and bone health in men and women​

Abstract​

Estrogen is the key regulator of bone metabolism in both men and women. Menopause and the accompanying loss of ovarian estrogens are associated with declines in bone mineral density (BMD): 10-year cumulative loss was 9.1% at the femoral neck and 10.6%, lumbar spine. Estradiol concentrations also predict fractures. Total estradiol levels, <5 pg/ml were associated with a 2.5-fold increase in hip and vertebral fractures in older women, an association that was independent of age and body weight. Similar associations were found in men. Despite the lower BMD and higher fracture risk in hypogonadal men, there is little association between circulating testosterone, fracture and bone loss. Nevertheless, the combination of any low sex steroid hormone and 25-hydroxyvitamin D was associated with an increased fracture risk. Menopausal hormone therapy has been shown to reduce hip and all fractures in the Women's Health Initiative with little difference between the estrogen-alone and the estrogen plus progestin trials. The risk reductions were attenuated in both trials post intervention; however, a significant hip fracture benefit persisted over 13 years for women assigned to the combination therapy. Clinical trials of testosterone replacement in older men give tantalizing but inconclusive results. The results suggest that testosterone treatment probably improves BMD, but the results are less conclusive in older versus younger men. The Testosterone Trial is designed to test the hypothesis that testosterone treatment of men with unequivocally low serum testosterone (<275 ng/dL) will increase volumetric BMD (vBMD) of the spine. Results of the Testosterone Trials are expected in 2015.

Estrogen and bone health in men and women - PubMed

Estrogen is the key regulator of bone metabolism in both men and women. Menopause and the accompanying loss of ovarian estrogens are associated with declines in bone mineral density (BMD): 10-year cumulative loss was 9.1% at the femoral neck and 10.6%, lumbar spine. Estradiol concentrations also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Limon9]

Would anyone like to venture what a BMD scan really scans when they do estrogen treatment? I know.

 

[EustaceBagge]

Estrogen and bone metabolism​

Abstract​

Estrogen plays an important role in the growth and maturation of bone as well as in the regulation of bone turnover in adult bone. During bone growth estrogen is needed for proper closure of epiphyseal growth plates both in females and in males. Also in young skeleton estrogen deficiency leads to increased osteoclast formation and enhanced bone resorption. In menopause estrogen deficiency induces cancellous as well as cortical bone loss. Highly increased bone resorption in cancellous bone leads to general bone loss and destruction of local architecture because of penetrative resorption and microfractures. In cortical bone the first response of estrogen withdrawal is enhanced endocortical resorption. Later, also intracortical porosity increases. These lead to decreased bone mass, disturbed architecture and reduced bone strength. At cellular level in bone estrogen inhibits differentiation of osteoclasts thus decreasing their number and reducing the amount of active remodeling units. This effect is probably mediated through some cytokines, IL-1 and IL-6 being strongest candidates. Estrogen regulates the expression of IL-6 in bone marrow cells by a so far unknown mechanism. It is still uncertain if the effects of estrogen on osteoblasts is direct or is due to coupling phenomenon between bone formation to resorption.

Estrogen and bone metabolism - PubMed

Estrogen plays an important role in the growth and maturation of bone as well as in the regulation of bone turnover in adult bone. During bone growth estrogen is needed for proper closure of epiphyseal growth plates both in females and in males. Also in young skeleton estrogen deficiency leads...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Estrogen and bone health in men and women​

Abstract​

Estrogen is the key regulator of bone metabolism in both men and women. Menopause and the accompanying loss of ovarian estrogens are associated with declines in bone mineral density (BMD): 10-year cumulative loss was 9.1% at the femoral neck and 10.6%, lumbar spine. Estradiol concentrations also predict fractures. Total estradiol levels, <5 pg/ml were associated with a 2.5-fold increase in hip and vertebral fractures in older women, an association that was independent of age and body weight. Similar associations were found in men. Despite the lower BMD and higher fracture risk in hypogonadal men, there is little association between circulating testosterone, fracture and bone loss. Nevertheless, the combination of any low sex steroid hormone and 25-hydroxyvitamin D was associated with an increased fracture risk. Menopausal hormone therapy has been shown to reduce hip and all fractures in the Women's Health Initiative with little difference between the estrogen-alone and the estrogen plus progestin trials. The risk reductions were attenuated in both trials post intervention; however, a significant hip fracture benefit persisted over 13 years for women assigned to the combination therapy. Clinical trials of testosterone replacement in older men give tantalizing but inconclusive results. The results suggest that testosterone treatment probably improves BMD, but the results are less conclusive in older versus younger men. The Testosterone Trial is designed to test the hypothesis that testosterone treatment of men with unequivocally low serum testosterone (<275 ng/dL) will increase volumetric BMD (vBMD) of the spine. Results of the Testosterone Trials are expected in 2015.

Estrogen and bone health in men and women - PubMed

Estrogen is the key regulator of bone metabolism in both men and women. Menopause and the accompanying loss of ovarian estrogens are associated with declines in bone mineral density (BMD): 10-year cumulative loss was 9.1% at the femoral neck and 10.6%, lumbar spine. Estradiol concentrations also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is good and all, but in this sense all phytoestrogens would have this effect, and especially those coming from soy. But while we know soy can give you manboobs, we don't know whether it will improve bone.

And yet you have cultures where tea is consumed a lot, and yet it didn't ring any bells for estrogen problems that we could observe. The only data we have is from a few studies showing black tea might reduce dht and those studies are all low quality tbh.

I still don't believe the effects of tea are attributable to its estrogenic effects. I've yet had to encounter anyone on the internet or real life that got gyno from drinking 10+ cups of strong black tea a day. Now try the same with drinking 1l of soymilk daily.

 

[FrenchKiwi]

I drink copious cups of black tea and no other drink makes me feel so amazing. I get a huge sense of calm but with incredible clarity, energy and focus that is not manic like on coffee

 

[FrenchKiwi]

Despite all this tea drinking for the last 40 years, my estrogen levels are undetectable!

 

[GTW]

Many studies identify and correlate specific effects from caffeine, EGCG, theanine, inter alia, and synergistic, in tea.

 

[joshquintanilla]

Estrogen and Osteoporosis

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Osteoporosis, harmful calcification, and nerve/muscle malfunctions

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[AlphaCog]

On the topic, liquorice may be good for boosting cortisol(another Anti-Peat hormone).

Supplementation with licorice preserves cortisol by blocking the enzyme which breaks down cortisol.

 

[AlphaCog]

This is good and all, but in this sense all phytoestrogens would have this effect, and especially those coming from soy. But while we know soy can give you manboobs, we don't know whether it will improve bone.

And yet you have cultures where tea is consumed a lot, and yet it didn't ring any bells for estrogen problems that we could observe. The only data we have is from a few studies showing black tea might reduce dht and those studies are all low quality tbh.

I still don't believe the effects of tea are attributable to its estrogenic effects. I've yet had to encounter anyone on the internet or real life that got gyno from drinking 10+ cups of strong black tea a day. Now try the same with drinking 1l of soymilk daily.

Perhaps tea has effect on Vitamin K metabolism.

Probable antagonism of warfarin by green tea​

Abstract​

Objective: To report a case of the inhibition of the effect of warfarin by green tea.
Case summary: A 44-year-old white man was receiving warfarin for thromboembolic prophylaxis secondary to a St. Jude mechanical valve replacement in the aortic position. The patient had an international normalized ratio (INR) of 3.20 approximately one month prior to entering our clinic, and an INR of 3.79 on entering our clinic. Twenty-two days later his INR was 1.37. One month later the patient's INR was 1.14. It was subsequently discovered that the patient began drinking one-half to one gallon of green tea per day about one week prior to the INR of 1.37. On discontinuation of the green tea, the patient's INR increased to 2.55.
Discussion: Warfarin produces anticoagulation by inhibiting production of the vitamin K-dependent clotting factors (i.e., factors II, VII, IX, X). The exogenous administration of vitamin K inhibits the effect of warfarin and reduces a patient's degree of anticoagulation. Green tea can be a significant source of vitamin K and thus antagonize the effect of warfarin.
Conclusions: Warfarin is a highly effective oral anticoagulant, but it requires close monitoring to prevent complications. Patients receiving warfarin need to be routinely questioned about their intake of vitamin K-containing foods and beverages.

Probable antagonism of warfarin by green tea - PubMed

Warfarin is a highly effective oral anticoagulant, but it requires close monitoring to prevent complications. Patients receiving warfarin need to be routinely questioned about their intake of vitamin K-containing foods and beverages.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Update of green tea interactions with cardiovascular drugs and putative mechanisms

Abstract​

Many patients treated with cardiovascular (CV) drugs drink green tea (GT), either as a cultural tradition or persuaded of its putative beneficial effects for health. Yet, GT may affect the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of CV compounds. Novel GT-CV drug interactions were reported for rosuvastatin, sildenafil and tacrolimus. Putative mechanisms involve inhibitory effects of GT catechins at the intestinal level on influx transporters OATP1A2 or OATP2B1 for rosuvastatin, on CYP3A for sildenafil and on both CYP3A and the efflux transporter p-glycoprotein for tacrolimus. These interactions, which add to those previously described with simvastatin, nadolol and warfarin, might lead, in some cases, to reduced drug efficacy or risk of drug toxicity. Oddly, available data on GT interaction with CV compounds with a narrow therapeutic index, such as warfarin and tacrolimus, derive from single case reports. Conversely, GT interactions with simvastatin, rosuvastatin, nadolol and sildenafil were documented through pharmacokinetic studies. In these, the effect of GT or GT derivatives on drug exposure was mild to moderate, but a high inter-individual variability was observed. Further investigations, including studies on the effect of the dose and the time of GT intake are necessary to understand more in depth the clinical relevance of GT-CV drug interactions.
Keywords: Cardiovascular drugs; Green tea; Herb–drug interactions.

Full Text PDF

Update of green tea interactions with cardiovascular drugs and putative mechanisms

Many patients treated with cardiovascular (CV) drugs drink green tea (GT), either as a cultural tradition or persuaded of its putative beneficial effe…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[AlphaCog]

Found some Vitamin K and estrogen interaction:

Interrelationships Between Vitamin K and Estrogenic Hormones
SUMMARY
Evidence has been presented indicating a protective effect of estrogenic hormones in vitamin K deficiency. Female rats are more resistant to the development of dietary K deficiency than are male animals. This difference is most pronounced during early adulthood. Castration increases the susceptibility of the female rat and decreases that of the male rat to hypoprothrombinemia and hemorrhagic death during the feeding of vitamin K-deficient diets. In male animals fed similar diets, the injection of estrogens results in improved prothrombin levels and a lower mortality. Administration of testosterone has an opposite effect.

A single large dose of the anticoagulant, warfarin sodium, is followed by a greater mortality due to hemorrhage in male rats than in female rats of the same age. In male animals some protection against the effects of the anticoagulant is afforded by pretreatment or by simultaneous administration of estrogenic substances.

Effects considered to be characteristic of estrogenic hormones, for example, increases in the uterine weight and cornification of the vaginal epithelium in castrates, have been shown to follow the administration of both K1 and menadione. With K1, at least, paradoxical effects occur with increasing dose level or continued administration. When K1 is administered concomitantly with estradiol, uterine weights are considerably decreased in comparison to those resulting from the same dose of estradiol given alone.

Interrelationships Between Vitamin K and Estrogenic Hormones

SUMMARY. Evidence has been presented indicating a protective effect of estrogenic hormones in vitamin K deficiency. Female rats are more resistant to the develo

academic.oup.com

Relationship of Estrogen and Vitamin K.​

Summary​

Estradiol injection into male rats kept on a Vit. K-free diet was effective in lowering plasma prothrombin time to normal values in 6 hours. This Vit. K-like activity was observed even at a dosage of 20 μg/rat. Conversely, testosterone administration (1 mg/rat) to female rats significantly increased plasma prothrombin time as compared to untreated controls.
In contrast to the results observed with rats, male and female chicks were equally susceptible to dietary Vit. K deficiency, and estradiol administration, even at a dose of 1 mg/chick, did not alleviate the hypoprothrombinemia.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.3181/00379727-112-28055

 

[AlphaCog]

Can the protective effect of estrogenic hormones in vitamin K deficiency partly explain decrease in mortality for women pre-menopause?
Of course instead of taking estrogen, increase vitamin K intake. Or drink tea.

Risk Reduction By Increased Vitamin K Intake​
Condition	Vitamin K Form	Risk Reduction
All-Cause Mortality	K2	26% (Highest vs. Lowest Intake)3
All-Cause Mortality	K1	36% (Highest vs. Lowest Intake)2
Cancer	K1	46% (Highest vs. Lowest Intake)2
Cancer, Advanced Prostate	K2	63% (Highest vs. Lowest Intake)7
Cancer Death	K2	28% (Highest vs. Lowest Intake)54
Coronary Artery Calcification	K2	20% (Highest vs. Lowest Intake)30
Coronary Heart Disease	K1	21% (Highest vs. Lowest Intake)66
Coronary Heart Disease	K2	9% lower risk for each 10 microgram/d increased intake67
Coronary Heart Disease Mortality	K2	57% (Highest vs. Lowest Intake)3
Metabolic Syndrome	K1	27% for having low HDL-cholesterol* 49% for having elevated triglycerides* 82% for having high blood sugar* (All Highest vs. Lowest Intake)68
Type II Diabetes	K2	7% lower risk for each 10 microgram/d increased intake5
Type II Diabetes	K1	17% reduction for each 100 microgram/d increased intake6
Type II Diabetes	K1	51% with increased K1 intake vs. decreased or no change in intake6
*Based off of odds ratios

Does Vitamin K Help You Slow The Aging? - Life Extension

New research confirms that vitamin K can slash the risk of arterial calcification, coronary heart disease, cancer, type II diabetes, and metabolic syndrome. Most compelling is a study showing that those with the highest intakes of vitamin K are less likely to die from any cause.

www.lifeextension.com

Seems like best K1 supplement is Source Naturals Vitamin K - 500 mcg - 200 Tablets.

Source Naturals Vitamin K

Vitamin K, or phylloquinone, is a fat-soluble vitamin best known for its important function in the biological activity of several blood coagulation factors. Recent research has also shown a role for vitamin K in bone health. Vitamin K plays a key role in the synthesis of the bone proteins...

www.sourcenaturals.com

 

[EustaceBagge]

Does Vitamin K Help You Slow The Aging? - Life Extension

New research confirms that vitamin K can slash the risk of arterial calcification, coronary heart disease, cancer, type II diabetes, and metabolic syndrome. Most compelling is a study showing that those with the highest intakes of vitamin K are less likely to die from any cause.

www.lifeextension.com

Seems like best K1 supplement is Source Naturals Vitamin K - 500 mcg - 200 Tablets.

Source Naturals Vitamin K

Vitamin K, or phylloquinone, is a fat-soluble vitamin best known for its important function in the biological activity of several blood coagulation factors. Recent research has also shown a role for vitamin K in bone health. Vitamin K plays a key role in the synthesis of the bone proteins...

www.sourcenaturals.com

Why promote a very specific K1 on a Peaty board, where it is well known k2 mk4 is much preferred? And Thorne is surprisingly cheap for k2 mk4, as a normal dose of 1-3mg will last quite a long time. I would just like to know your reasoning.

 

[AlphaCog]

Why promote a very specific K1 on a Peaty board, where it is well known k2 mk4 is much preferred? And Thorne is surprisingly cheap for k2 mk4, as a normal dose of 1-3mg will last quite a long time. I would just like to know your reasoning.

As you mentioned this is a "Peaty board", peatarians probably tried all the K2. Many have side effects from insomnia to hair loss with K2 MK4.

This K1 is the highest dose per tablet I can find therefore less excepients. It can be an alternative for people who can't tolerate K2 MK4 as K1 still delivers benefits.

The Peat diet has recommended richest whole food K2 such as cheese, egg, milk, liver.

Perhaps for many K1 is better as a pill than fibrous veggie.

Ray Peat reportedly use both forms. For aspirin use both K1 and K2 can do the job.