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Vitamin K And D Reverse Muscle Aging, May Act Like Sports Doping Agents

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Jun 17, 2016.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Vitamin D and K have a primary role in bone metabolism, together with calcium and the androgenic hormones. Ray has written about the importance of these vitamins not only for bone health but also for insulin sensitivity and accelerating deactivation of estrogen. Many of these beneficial effects are due to the effects of vitamin K and D on synthesis of the hormone osteocalcin - i.e. both vitamins increase osteocalcin synthesis, but vitamin K is especially effective at doing so. Osteocalcin apparently also promotes synthesis of testosterone, which may clarify why Ray said that bone metabolism and virility are tightly correlated. It would also explain why administration of vitamin K2 (MK-4) doubles testosterone levels in rats.

    Osteoporosis, aging, tissue renewal, and product science
    "..."...While lactic acidosis causes bone loss, acidosis caused by increased carbonic acid doesn't; low bicarbonate in the body fluids seems to remove carbonate from the bone (Bushinsky, et al., 1993), and also mineral phosphates (Bushinsky, et al., 2003). The parathyroid hormone, which removes calcium from bone, causes lactic acid to be formed by bone cells (Nijweide, et al., 1981; Lafeber, et al., 1986). Lactic acid produced by intense exercise causes calcium loss from bone (Ashizawa, et al., 1997), and sodium bicarbonate increases calcium retention by bone. Vitamin K2 (Yamaguchi, et al., 2003) blocks the removal of calcium from bone caused by parathyroid hormone and prostaglandin E2, by completely blocking their stimulation of lactic acid production by bone tissues. Aspirin, which, like vitamin K, supports cell respiration and inhibits lactic acid formation, also favors bone calcification. Vitamin K2 stimulates the formation of two important bone proteins, osteocalcin and osteonectin (Bunyaratavej, et al., 2009), and reduces the activity of estrogen by oxidizing estradiol (Otsuka, et al, 2005).

    Osteocalcin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "...Osteocalcin is secreted solely by osteoblasts and thought to play a role in the body's metabolic regulation and is pro-osteoblastic, or bone-building, by nature.[4] It is also implicated in bone mineralization and calcium ion homeostasis. Osteocalcin acts as a hormone in the body, causing beta cells in the pancreas to release more insulin, and at the same time directing fat cells to release the hormone adiponectin, which increases sensitivity to insulin.[4] Osteocalcin acts on Leydig cells of the testis to stimulate testosterone biosynthesis and therefore affect male fertility."
    This study found that administration of osteocalcin to old mice completely reversed muscle aging and made their physical / exercise performance equal the one of young mice half their age. I guess the equivalent in humans would be to make an 80-year old be able to run and exercise like a 30-year old. Also, as you can see from the study, scientist fear that osteocalcin may become a doping agent for athletes given how powerfully it stimulates cellular metabolism of both glucose and fat. This anabolic possibility of osteocalcin becomes even more relevant in light of the above Wikipedia reference of osteocalcin increasing testosterone synthesis in the testicles - the one place where testosterone synthesis declines with age.

    Osteocalcin Signaling in Myofibers Is Necessary and Sufficient for Optimum Adaptation to Exercise. - PubMed - NCBI
    Hormone injection lets ageing muscles run harder and longer

    "...Now Gerard Karsenty of Columbia University and his colleagues have shown that a hormone secreted by bone – called osteocalcin – boosts the ability of muscles to burn fuel and generate energy. When they injected the hormone into old mice, the animals were able to run as far as their younger counterparts, despite being up to a year older – a long time in mouse years. Old mice that did not receive the hormone ran about half as far. “It was extremely surprising,” says Karsenty."

    "...The team found that in both mice and humans, physical exercise significantly increases the level of osteocalcin in the blood. The release of this hormone increases the availability of two primary fuels, glucose and fatty acids, to the muscles. Osteocalcin gives the muscles an extra kick by promoting fuel uptake as well as boosting the muscles’ ability to break down that fuel to use as energy, making it easier to run longer and harder, says Karsenty. They found that osteocalcin levels gradually decrease in men and women as they age, flatlining at ages 50 and 30, respectively. “If you look backwards during evolution, men were much more active than women – for example, in hunting and fishing. That may be an explanation for why the decrease in circulating osteocalcin occurs later in men than in women,” Karsenty suggests."

    "...The results are exciting, but there are many “big ifs”, says Graham Kemp at the University of Liverpool. “Notably, if osteocalcin has the same effect in humans, and if there are any side effects.” There is also the risk that osteocalcin could be used as a doping agent in sport, Kemp says. “Anything, especially a natural endocrine factor, with these potential effects in humans, couldn’t fail to attract interest from would-be dopers.”


    Now, all you have to do is add some vitamin A to the D and K and you have a doping agent flying under the radar of IOC :)
    Vitamin A Stimulates Testosterone Production

    Edit: February 28, 2017:
    When I posted that study above a few months ago, I was just guessing about the possible ergogenic effects of vitamin K2 and D3 in combination since the study above was about osteocalcin, which vitamin K2 and D3 should raise. But since then I stumbled upon another, unrelated, study making the same claim specifically about vitamin K2 and D3. So, here it is below, for the people who are interested. The authors of this study below think a combination vitamin D3 in doses of at least 5,000 IU daily and vitamin K2 in doses of high microgam to low milligram doses should improve athletic performance, greatly speed muscle recovery, and have a very trophic effect on muscle growth. And all of that with virtually no toxicity.
    Plausible ergogenic effects of vitamin D on athletic performance and recovery
    "...In summary, an interesting theme has emerged from animal studies that supraphysiological dosages of vitamin D3 have potential ergogenic effects on the human metabolic system and lead to multiple physiological enhancements. These dosages could increase aerobic capacity, muscle growth, force and power production, and a decreased recovery time from exercise. These dosages could also improve bone density. However, both deficiency (12.5 to 50 nmol/L) and high levels of vitamin D (>125 nmol/L) can have negative side effects, with the potential for an increased mortality [121]. Thus, maintenance of optimal serum levels between 75 to 100 nmol/L [11, 86] and ensuring adequate amounts of other essential nutrients including vitamin K are consumed, is key to health and performance. Coaches, medical practitioners, and athletic personnel should recommend their patients and athletes to have their plasma 25(OH)D measured, in order to determine if supplementation is needed. Based on the research presented on recovery, force and power production, 4000-5000 IU/day of vitamin D3 in conjunction with a mixture of 50 mcg/day to 1000 mcg/day of vitamin K1 and K2 seems to be a safe dose and has the potential to aid athletic performance. Lastly, no study in the athletic population has increased serum 25(OH)D levels past 100 nmol/L, (the optimal range for skeletal muscle function) using doses of 1000 to 5000 IU/day. Thus, future studies should test the physiological effects of higher dosages (5000 IU to 10,000 IU/day or more) of vitamin D3 in combination with varying dosages of vitamin K1 and vitamin K2 in the athletic population to determine optimal dosages needed to maximize performance."
     
  2. bzmazu

    bzmazu Member

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    At 71, I have certainly felt the muscle aging coming on...Have had a growing fear of sarcopenia...it's scary, all of a sudden going from strong to weak.... this probably also was sped up by my stroke.
    But the news is good... since I started K....currently 12 mg taken daily...I have noticed a possible reversal and an increase in my strength?!!...also taking A an D three times a week. I believe I've also had a good rise in T recently, which was probably non existent 6 months ago...will check my prolactin soon. Feeling lots of improvements in my health and well being recently.

    Unfortunately am pretty disabled in my walking (walk like Capt Ahab)...and looking for anything that might help...am very fearful of getting weaker. I work out for 20 min once a week ala "Body by Science" and am stronger now (and look better) than in years...thank you Dr. Ray and Mr Giorgi.
     
  3. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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    thanks for share,
    some articles have a theory that those osteocalcin hormone like effects on glucose metabolism and testosterone boosting effects are before it gets carboxylated by vitamin k, right after that it just has a structural role to attach calcium and co2 to bones.

    my understanding was that vitamin k doesnt stimulate OC synthesis by itself , but that reference says otherwise!
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yeah, even the Wikipedia link above says that osteocalcin synthesis is vitamin K dependent.
    "...Osteocalcin, also known as bone gamma-carboxyglutamic acid-containing protein (BGLAP), is a noncollagenous protein found in bone and dentin. Because it has gla domains, its synthesis is vitamin K dependent. In humans, the osteocalcin is encoded by the BGLAP gene.[1][2] Its receptor is GPRC6A.[3]"
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Bump. I just updated the original thread with another study, which makes the direct claim that vitamin K2 and D3 may have ergogenic effects for athletes. The suggested doses are quite reasonable - about 5,000 IU for D3 and a few milligrams for K2.
     
  6. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Hmmmm...I've recently experienced an upswing in endurance, both physical and mental, that I'd attributed mostly to eating frequent carby meals and symptomatically dosing with progesterone. But now I'm wondering if the extra K2 I also started has something to do with it. I haven't been supplementing that much vitamin D but I do get a bit of sun most every day and I do also dose with liquid D3.

    I have been doing BIG doses of K2 temporarily. Like 45mg/day to address some possible bone loss. I plan to scale that back after a couple months but I just wanted to see what effects, if any. A few years ago I increased K2 intake (although not that radically) and noticed my face, particularly jawbone, looked wider.
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Osteocalcin is very anabolic, as the first study showed. It directly increases synthesis of T in the gonads. So, I am not surprised to hear about this effect on bones or performance.
     
  8. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Everything I've read indicates that K2 is pretty safe, even at high doses like 45mg/day. @haidut, think there's any reason not to do this for a couple of months before reducing dose?
     
  9. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I would definitely make sure vitamin D blood levels are not below 35 before using that dose and still it may help to add a few thousand IU of D3 with that dose K2. Calcium intake is also important with such high doses. Also, there is a blood test for osteocalcin and carboxylated osteocalcin, which are probably good to do before/after to see effects. If vitamin K2 is working as expected, total osteocalcin should jump as well as carboxylated osteocalcin.
     
  10. encerent

    encerent Member

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    Good tips for K2 mega dosers.
     
  11. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Awesome info, @haidut. Thank you! BTW, did you ever do a non-DMSO version of K2...?
     
  12. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    You mean did we ever offer such a version? No, we did not. The DMSO version is the only one we have. And the difference between it and the other products I have tried is night and day. Just look at some of the testimonials in the Kuinone thread.
     
  13. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    I know, read the thread. I have some of your K2. I could never tell the difference between it and the oil-based. And sadly, DMSO makes me itch if I do doses of more than a few drops. :(
     
  14. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Even the new version? Using 2-3 drops Kuinone is not a small dose btw. I would do tests for osteocalcin and see what the levels are.
     
  15. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Yeah, while it sounds interesting, no funds for that right now. I haven't tried the new version. I will in the near future.

    If you can answer this quickly, in mgs, how does 2-3 drops of Kuinone compare to the standard 1mg/drop oil solution of K2? Sorry if that's in the Kuinone thread but I don't have time to re-read it all now. If you can't give quick answer I'll look a bit in the near future.
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I don't know that there is a direct equivalence formula, but 1mg Kuinone have me the same blood levels as 10mg Thorne.
     
  17. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    That sounds good. Thanks, @haidut!
     
  18. A.R

    A.R Member

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    I wonder if anyone on this forum has experimented with this formula
     
  19. mirc12354

    mirc12354 Member

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    both taken transdermally?
     
  20. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    Did anyone ever get the skinnny on exactly what kind of adverse reaction Peat was talking about between K2 and vit E taken at the same time? I've been worried about this ever since, and it's annoying because I take both E and K and like them both and would like to take both daily, but now am worried about interactions. Since there are no specifics, just a vague reference, I'm wondering if it's just a supposition.
     
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