Jordan Peterson Post-Recovery Interview

[MatheusPN]

President Trump about NAFTA: “worst trade deal … maybe ever,” citing U.S. job losses and a growing trade deficit.

Imagine what can happen when in a free trade world, the billionaires buy and monopolize the resources of countries, principally the poor countries.
We don't need to imagine, there're countries that the billionaires from another, control their economy, control the land price and tariff

And Jordan Peterson misleads people about, post-modernism, Marxism and about the left

 

[kyle]

Who funded communism? Down to the present day, why does every single corporation support every leftist cause?

What do they have in common? Why would both "sides" want to tear down statues?

Why is Jordan Peterson an ardent individualist? Why is the leftist mantra "make the personal political"?

 

[Soren]

what improvements from free market capitalism have decreased infant mortality? Why does saving the heart beat of an infant trump improving the health of that person? Is living 3 months on life support equivalent to an increase in vitality? Where are the stats for healthier children sans diseases (not talking about illness that can be cured with antibiotics)

You've missed my point here a bit. If child mortality is down it means that on the whole less people are dying both in child birth and shortly after.

There are plenty of stats of children with less diseases.
Some Historical Perspective for Anxious Parents
"Before the age of five, 35 out of every 45 Victorian children had experienced either smallpox, measles, scarlet fever, diphtheria, whooping cough, typhus or enteric fever — or some combination of those illnesses — and many of them did not survive."

"As late as 1899, more than 16 percent of children died before their first birthday; today in the United Kingdom that figure is 0.35 percent."

The rapid improvement we have seen is principally due to better sanitation, better supply's chain, food supply, technology improvements basically the advances that are only possible under a capitalist system.

 

[LUH 3417]

You've missed my point here a bit. If child mortality is down it means that on the whole less people are dying both in child birth and shortly after.

There are plenty of stats of children with less diseases.
Some Historical Perspective for Anxious Parents
"Before the age of five, 35 out of every 45 Victorian children had experienced either smallpox, measles, scarlet fever, diphtheria, whooping cough, typhus or enteric fever — or some combination of those illnesses — and many of them did not survive."

You repeatedly deny my point. Surviving past child birth has much to do with NICU interventions, those statistics don’t account for death at 3months 6months 9 months etc. perhaps children are not dying from typhus but they are clinically disabled and autistic, incapable of communicating, and in need of social services for the rest of their lives. Not the most hopeful trade off.

 

[LUH 3417]

Who funded communism? Down to the present day, why does every single corporation support every leftist cause?

What do they have in common? Why would both "sides" want to tear down statues?

Why is Jordan Peterson an ardent individualist? Why is the leftist mantra "make the personal political"?

Globalist liberal identity politics are not leftism or communism. You clearly have not even given the time to read through the thread.

 

[Soren]

You repeatedly deny my point. Surviving past child birth has much to do with NICU interventions, those statistics don’t account for death at 3months 6months 9 months etc. perhaps children are not dying from typhus but they are clinically disabled and autistic, incapable of communicating, and in need of social services for the rest of their lives. Not the most hopeful trade off.

Infant mortality means death up to 1 year after childbirth so that would include 3, 6 and 9 months! There is no question that globally deaths of infants at 3, 6 and 9 months are down massively!

It seems to me you're looking only at one country the US. Which I don't deny has a lot of issues with increases in autism and other health issues in children but this is not down to Capitalism.

 

[kyle]

@raysputin Who financed Lenin and Trotsky?

 

[MatheusPN]

@kyle
State Communism is an oxymoron, Maoism, Leninism and Trotskyism isn't communism and don't confuse an authority controlling all the state with socialism, self-worker management

 

[LUH 3417]

Infant mortality means death up to 1 year after childbirth so that would include 3, 6 and 9 months! There is no question that globally deaths of infants at 3, 6 and 9 months are down massively!

It seems to me you're looking only at one country the US. Which I don't deny has a lot of issues with increases in autism and other health issues in children but this is not down to Capitalism.

Putting profit over people, and making a medical cartel out of vaccines and SSRIs and unnecessary obstetric interventions IS down to capitalism. No matter which way you try to twist it.
And fair enough about infants living longer, old people are living longer too - with diabetes, hypertension, autoimmunity, sh***ing themselves in nursing homes, dying alone, happy capitalist McWorld we live in.

 

[LUH 3417]

Infant mortality means death up to 1 year after childbirth so that would include 3, 6 and 9 months! There is no question that globally deaths of infants at 3, 6 and 9 months are down massively!

It seems to me you're looking only at one country the US. Which I don't deny has a lot of issues with increases in autism and other health issues in children but this is not down to Capitalism.

So Russia, China etc and other communist countries have better health because they are actually capitalist and people are dying in capitalist USA because it’s actually communist?

 

[kyle]

@MatheusPN are you referring to anarchism then? You seem to be confused here.

 

[MatheusPN]

@MatheusPN are you referring to anarchism then? You seem to be confused here.

Negative, you think I am because you distorts communism, anarchy is a type of communism, the anarco-kraterocrats are anti-anarchist. Do you know Council Communism?

Communism, dissolution of the state, socialist community
As I said don't confuse an authority controlling all the state with socialism, self-worker management

 

[Soren]

Communism, dissolution of the state, socialist community
As I said don't confuse an authority controlling all the state with socialism, self-worker management

Is this you're definition of communism? If so you're presenting a contradictory framework that is impossible to achieve due to basic human nature. How can you have both a dissolution of the state and a socialist community? If by socialist community you mean a system where everyone contributes and receives according to their ability and needs, common ownership etc, how do you enforce that socialist community without the state to determine what everyone's needs and abilities are? How do you stop people taking too much or not contributing enough?

Communism/socialism will always do harm or fail because it ignores fundamental aspects of human nature principally that people will by and large pursue their own individual interests over the interests of the whole.

 

[Soren]

anarchy is a type of communism

That is your opinion, there are many anarchists who would argue strongly against this statement. Michael Malice for example.

 

[LUH 3417]

Is this you're definition of communism? If so you're presenting a contradictory framework that is impossible to achieve due to basic human nature. How can you have both a dissolution of the state and a socialist community? If by socialist community you mean a system where everyone contributes and receives according to their ability and needs, common ownership etc, how do you enforce that socialist community without the state to determine what everyone's needs and abilities are? How do you stop people taking too much or not contributing enough?

Communism/socialism will always do harm or fail because it ignores fundamental aspects of human nature principally that people will by and large pursue their own individual interests over the interests of the whole.

That fundamental aspect of human nature is steeped in capitalist lore about the selfish nature of human beings in a scarcity model of resources. If you study indigenous cultures plenty of them were not organized around production nor were they sustenance economies on the constant search for food. In fact most tribal cultures had a fair amount of leisure time and a surplus of plants like tobacco for enjoyment during rituals and celebrations, with no slaves or hierarchical organization as we know it now today. Of course these were small groups of people with a much different form of technology and organization but your premise of there being an inbred deterministic human nature is a fallacy.

 

[Kvothe]

That is your opinion, there are many anarchists who would argue strongly against this statement. Michael Malice for example.

Maybe you should concern yourself more with the opinions of the intellectual founders of anarchy (anarchist communism), people like Bakunin or Kropotkin, instead of Ex-Merill Lynch, Ex-Goldmann Sachs Hipsters that like to call themselves malice.

 

[MatheusPN]

Is this you're definition of communism? If so you're presenting a contradictory framework that is impossible to achieve due to basic human nature. How can you have both a dissolution of the state and a socialist community? If by socialist community you mean a system where everyone contributes and receives according to their ability and needs, common ownership etc, how do you enforce that socialist community without the state to determine what everyone's needs and abilities are? How do you stop people taking too much or not contributing enough?

Communism/socialism will always do harm or fail because it ignores fundamental aspects of human nature principally that people will by and large pursue their own individual interests over the interests of the whole.

How can you abolish the Feudalism or the kingdom and install some type of capitalism? The land pertains to the lords! They own it.

To both replies.
Deliberation Makes People Consistently Selfish
Kibbutz, anarchy/ communism.
Some yellow "anarco"-kraterocrats: "Let capitalism control politics and life, great!"
Yeah great for the elite, who have lots of capital/ destructive power (missiles).

The system this guy is talking is oligopolist and hierarchical, totally against anarchism. Oligopoly of what? Money and resources in an ancapistan

No @ruprmurdoch, "liberals", SJW and democrats party followers aren't leftists

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Your posts are refreshing. This is an ongoing conversation on this forum - Leftists! Liberals! Snowflakes! Transgender rights communists!!! They’re all lumped into one.

No, left today is mainstream, it's not underground. Just understand that capitalism and communism are two sides of the same coin. Just strat your economic interestings in freiburg economic school, maybe this will enligten you.

 

[Soren]

That fundamental aspect of human nature is steeped in capitalist lore about the selfish nature of human beings in a scarcity model of resources.

I'm not sure what you mean by capitalist lore but I know of no major proponent of capitalism that ascribes to such a view. Quite the contrary the great captialist proponents such as Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell, Hayek etc all made the argument that capitalism increased the number of resources rather than led to a scarcity. Look at oil for example, before someone figured out that we could drill into the ground and use the oil to power things the world for all intensive purposes had zero oil. It is irrelevant that it was in the ground, it was a dead resource that no one could use because no one new how to get it or use it. When people realized that they could make a profit from mining and selling oil all of a sudden we had open to us an energy producing resource that amplified the wealth and well being of the world on an unimaginable scale. That discovery was done by individuals pursuing their own interests, by pursuing their individual interests there was mutual gain. Capitalism leads to an increase of resources not a scarcity. The "capitalist lore" you speak of is nothing of the sort and sounds like the type of criticism that is often put at the foot of capitalism whereby capitalism is painted as being for something that it is in fact against. Same way people attack "trickle down economics" this is a non-existent theory that is constantly being attacked. No economist on the left or right has ever been in favour of trickle down economics. Thomas Sowell put out a challenge for someone to present to him the economist who came up with this theory. A completely erroneous attack which actually originated from the left.



I didn't say there was an inbred deterministic human nature. Everyone pursues their own individual interests, and that can be anything including seeking to create a socialist and communist society, but those interests will never be uniform there will always be variance just by nature of that fact means that in order to have a socialist society on any kind of scale you will need a state, governing body, whatever you want to call it to enforce it.

If you study indigenous cultures plenty of them were not organized around production nor were they sustenance economies on the constant search for food. In fact most tribal cultures had a fair amount of leisure time and a surplus of plants like tobacco for enjoyment during rituals and celebrations, with no slaves or hierarchical organization as we know it now today.

I have done some study of indigenous cultures specifically with regards to native Americans which contrary to popular belief there was a great deal of war, murder and enslavement among them. There were very very few indigenous cultures that were largely peaceful, this utopia that many like to paint is largely based on wishful thinking rather than fact.

For example in America we know from archaeological finds that on a per-capita basis the most violent place in history may have been in Mesa Verde of southwest Colorado.

"Writing in the journal American Antiquity, Washington State University archaeologist Tim Kohler and colleagues document how nearly 90 percent of human remains from that period had trauma from blows to either their heads or parts of their arms."

Slavery is unfortunately endemic in human history, it goes back so far that it is believed that humans had slaves before we had even learnt to read or write. Yes you can find incidents where it was not the case but they are exceedingly rare

 

[LUH 3417]

No, left today is mainstream, it's not underground. Just understand that capitalism and communism are two sides of the same coin. Just strat your economic interestings in freiburg economic school, maybe this will enligten you.

Please elaborate how the “liberal mainstream left” has promoted a society where men and women are in control of the means and activity of production and how they are producing only for themselves, instead of for others, with exchange and with reciprocity. How does main stream society constitute the “civil code” of the society, with the activity of production aimed at satisfying the needs of individuals, rather than an arrangement where the order of exchange gives way to the terror of debt.