Ray Peat On Addiction / Alcoholism

[DaveFoster]

This is the most valuable thread on the entire forum.

The real question: How do we maximize the will and banish addiction?

What are the most effective ways to lower stress and get rid of addiction?

So physical addiction of hard drugs doesn't exist and withdrawal symptoms could be alleviated by raising our metabolism rate?

This is the key; but stress overrides any raising of the metabolic rate.

If you're stressed with a high metabolic rate, you'll want to jerk off for 8 hours straight, as you'll have the energy to do so.

Craving is caused by low dopamine levels, so if we raise dopamine by lowering serotonin, maybe this will provide something.

Specifically, sexual and entertainment addiction; food addiction goes away by providing enough sugar, salt, protein, and saturated fat as mentioned.

Metabolism is like a train; if the train is moving it has to be directed. With breaks in the tracks (stress), the train will veer off into the land of addiction.

So, we have two options. We can restore the tracks and put fuel in the train (high-metabolic lifestyle with stress reduction), or we can put fuel in with broken tracks (stimulants without lowering sympathetic hormones); eg. marijuana, amphetamines, alcohol, etc.

 

[Lisalou]

Hello Everyone..I am new to the forum and to Peating..I have been taking progesterone and pregnenolene for the last month and the results have been fantastic. have also started curving my diet towards the Peat way. I received my bottle of pansterone yeasterday and the feeling great effect has gone up a few beats..
I have been a cigarette smoker for at least 35 years and would love to hear some thoughts on why, since beeing on the preg and prog I seem to be craving more for it.. This also happened in 2 of my pregnancies.. Thoughts anybody??

Thank you in advance

 

[DaveFoster]

Hello Everyone..I am new to the forum and to Peating..I have been taking progesterone and pregnenolene for the last month and the results have been fantastic. have also started curving my diet towards the Peat way. I received my bottle of pansterone yeasterday and the feeling great effect has gone up a few beats..
I have been a cigarette smoker for at least 35 years and would love to hear some thoughts on why, since beeing on the preg and prog I seem to be craving more for it.. This also happened in 2 of my pregnancies.. Thoughts anybody??

Thank you in advance

@Dopaminergic096 Can answer your question.

 

[Dopamine]

Hello Everyone..I am new to the forum and to Peating..I have been taking progesterone and pregnenolene for the last month and the results have been fantastic. have also started curving my diet towards the Peat way. I received my bottle of pansterone yeasterday and the feeling great effect has gone up a few beats..
I have been a cigarette smoker for at least 35 years and would love to hear some thoughts on why, since beeing on the preg and prog I seem to be craving more for it.. This also happened in 2 of my pregnancies.. Thoughts anybody??

Thank you in advance

That's strange because in theory higher progesterone levels should lower nicotine cravings and studies i've looked at support this. If you were craving cigarettes when pregnant was it because you were trying to smoke less? Are you trying to smoke less now? Are you smoking as much as you usually smoke?

 

[Lisalou]

That's strange because in theory higher progesterone levels should lower nicotine cravings and studies i've looked at support this. If you were craving cigarettes when pregnant was it because you were trying to smoke less? Are you trying to smoke less now? Are you smoking as much as you usually smoke?

thank you for your reply, have also posted on the nicotine thread which i have just discovered.. I was trying to smoke less back then (over 25 years ago) but not now, its been consistant for many years. I am post menopause so probably still trying to build progesterone levals up. I was in toatal hormone wipe out last October, but didnt know that untill 6 weeks ago.

 

[jaguar43]

Hello Everyone..I am new to the forum and to Peating..I have been taking progesterone and pregnenolene for the last month and the results have been fantastic. have also started curving my diet towards the Peat way. I received my bottle of pansterone yeasterday and the feeling great effect has gone up a few beats..
I have been a cigarette smoker for at least 35 years and would love to hear some thoughts on why, since beeing on the preg and prog I seem to be craving more for it.. This also happened in 2 of my pregnancies.. Thoughts anybody??

Thank you in advance

Ray Peat has said that progesterone doesn't do much to overcome cigarette addiction. He actually says that it's one of the hardest addictions to overcome.

Smoking is probably the hardest addiction to break, but careful use of nicotine gum with belladonna (to block some of the circulatory effects of nicotine) can allow a person to avoid the worst toxins of the smoke while overcoming the behavioral habit of handling cigarettes,without having to simultaneously modify the chemical addiction. Caffeine and vitamin A are very protective against cancer, including those induced by smoke. Progesterone and pregenelone both have anti-toxic (or "catatoxic") effects, though their effects on nicotine craving are slight.

-Ray Peat

 

[Lisalou]

Ray Peat has said that progesterone doesn't do much to overcome cigarette addiction. He actually says that it's one of the hardest addictions to overcome.

Smoking is probably the hardest addiction to break, but careful use of nicotine gum with belladonna (to block some of the circulatory effects of nicotine) can allow a person to avoid the worst toxins of the smoke while overcoming the behavioral habit of handling cigarettes,without having to simultaneously modify the chemical addiction. Caffeine and vitamin A are very protective against cancer, including those induced by smoke. Progesterone and pregenelone both have anti-toxic (or "catatoxic") effects, though their effects on nicotine craving are slight.

-Ray Peat

Thankyou Jag2594

 

[natedawggh]

Haidut, what do you think about tolerance to the effect of a molecule like let's say caffeine? When I started drinking coffee the effects where really strong and now I'm drinking more and the effects are quite low. And if I spend one day without drinking coffee I get headaches and nausea as it is said from caffeine withdrawal?

Coffee is different than drugs and alcohol because it doesn't force physiological changes, but facilitates them much like a vitamin. If a person has a strong reaction initially it is because the conditions that coffee improves are functioning less well in that individual. As you drink more and improve overall health the effect of coffee is less pronounced because there is less to improve. I drink about 3 venti starvucks a day (often as red-eyes which is + 1 espresso shot). And if I accidentally forget coffee one day (let's say I sleep in very late on a Saturday and get up and go hiking and forgot coffee) I do not get withdrawal headaches. The headaches are specifically the rebound of serotonin and swelling in the brain (which coffee lowers) and after prolonged coffee use plus improvements in general health, the body itself prevents the rebound in serotonin. That being said, the continued use of coffee consumption even after health has been achieved helps fortify the body against regular stress and aging.

One important note: many people drink coffee on an empty stomach. This is extremely unwise, since coffee always raises metabolism. If there is not adequate blood sugar to fuel the rise in metabolism, then cortisol will spike to provide sugar by catabolism of your tissues. Coffee jitters are caused by inadequate blood sugar. Coffee muscle weakness is from inadequate protein.

 

[Drareg]

Coffee is different than drugs and alcohol because it doesn't force physiological changes, but facilitates them much like a vitamin. If a person has a strong reaction initially it is because the conditions that coffee improves are functioning less well in that individual. As you drink more and improve overall health the effect of coffee is less pronounced because there is less to improve. I drink about 3 venti starvucks a day (often as red-eyes which is + 1 espresso shot). And if I accidentally forget coffee one day (let's say I sleep in very late on a Saturday and get up and go hiking and forgot coffee) I do not get withdrawal headaches. The headaches are specifically the rebound of serotonin and swelling in the brain (which coffee lowers) and after prolonged coffee use plus improvements in general health, the body itself prevents the rebound in serotonin. That being said, the continued use of coffee consumption even after health has been achieved helps fortify the body against regular stress and aging.

One important note: many people drink coffee on an empty stomach. This is extremely unwise, since coffee always raises metabolism. If there is not adequate blood sugar to fuel the rise in metabolism, then cortisol will spike to provide sugar by catabolism of your tissues. Coffee jitters are caused by inadequate blood sugar. Coffee muscle weakness is from inadequate protein.

Great post.
I think it's important to also note too much water can increase prolactin adding to negative effects some may experience, espresso made well can counter this if your sensitive.

 

[DavidGardner]

GABA is another factor worth mentioning. GABA increases ATP and mitigates the effects of high serotonin. Progesterone and niacin increase GABA just like a benzodiazapene, but without compromising health. I use both of these to this end, but after years of alcohol abuse, I find them inadequate to stop muscle tremors and anxiety. I have ordered picamilon, tenoten, and validol to experiment with.

 

[kaybb]

I

Coffee is different than drugs and alcohol because it doesn't force physiological changes, but facilitates them much like a vitamin. If a person has a strong reaction initially it is because the conditions that coffee improves are functioning less well in that individual. As you drink more and improve overall health the effect of coffee is less pronounced because there is less to improve. I drink about 3 venti starvucks a day (often as red-eyes which is + 1 espresso shot). And if I accidentally forget coffee one day (let's say I sleep in very late on a Saturday and get up and go hiking and forgot coffee) I do not get withdrawal headaches. The headaches are specifically the rebound of serotonin and swelling in the brain (which coffee lowers) and after prolonged coffee use plus improvements in general health, the body itself prevents the rebound in serotonin. That being said, the continued use of coffee consumption even after health has been achieved helps fortify the body against regular stress and aging.

One important note: many people drink coffee on an empty stomach. This is extremely unwise, since coffee always raises metabolism. If there is not adequate blood sugar to fuel the rise in metabolism, then cortisol will spike to provide sugar by catabolism of your tissues. Coffee jitters are caused by inadequate blood sugar. Coffee muscle weakness is from inadequate protein.

@haircut
I am actually worried coffee is exacerbating my migraines. I Started coffee slow and worked up...its been about 8 months now, average 400 mg caffeine a day from instant coffee (have it with milk and sugar and a separate OJ with gelatin). Also take Taurine and Theanine. I wake up with headache many mornings now. Peating almost 11 months. Wondering about the rebound headache theory.

 

[tara]

I am actually worried coffee is exacerbating my migraines. I Started coffee slow and worked up...its been about 8 months now, average 400 mg caffeine a day from instant coffee (have it with milk and sugar and a separate OJ with gelatin). Also take Taurine and Theanine. I wake up with headache many mornings now. Peating almost 11 months. Wondering about the rebound headache theory.

Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[kaybb]

Wouldn't surprise me.

I read a lot of your posts since we have migraines in common. You make espresso still? And if so, how much daily caffeine and any rebound migraines/headaches? I will give up the coffee asap if I need to. Sadly, it is one thing in my life I really enjoy but not worth it.

 

[tara]

You make espresso still? And if so, how much daily caffeine and any rebound migraines/headaches? I will give up the coffee asap if I need to. Sadly, it is one thing in my life I really enjoy but not worth it.

I've seen your posts referring to migraine too.

I've never made expresso.
For the last few months I've been having very little caooofee/caffeine: 0-1/2 tsp/day decaf instant. Surprisingly, I get a noticable short term positive effect from as little 1/4 -1/2 tsp. Esp. if I feel as though I've overeaten on carbs in the last hour.
I've never drunk large amounts, but for a couple of years I was having more than that - eg up to one full caffeine coffee a day, or a couple of tablespoons of decaf.
It seems to me that I am prone to having worse migraines in the rebound if I have much - eg sleep very deep and long and wake up with migraine process underway and unstoppable. The more coffee I've drunk over the previous few days, the more likely I'll have the strong drugs fail to effectively stop the pain.
I've considered trying to avoid the rebound by keeping the caffeine level up all the time, or only have it in the evening so it doesn't run out by the time I wake up. But I seem to lose my taste for the coffee if I push it, and forcing it doesn't seem to do me good.
I've read about a couple of processes that I think may be involved, but I'm not confident that I've pinned down why it happens.

I may well experiment with a bit more again having more at some stage, and see if I can get it working better for me.

I also use a little topical caffeine (a brew related to Haidut's solban), but I'm assuming this is systemically not big enough to make much difference, and also more even in terms of slow release into the system.

I think we all respond so differently to coffee and caffeine that there's no being confident that your experience would be similar to mine. I don't know whether to suggest experimenting with less coffee, or to assume that the fact you enjoy it so much is a sign that it's doing you more good than harm - in which case, it might be more about keeping the intake fairly regular so you don't get too deep withdrawal dips.

Someone posted about coffee enemas being one of the most effective things he knew for aborting migraine. I've not tried it.

 

[milk]

I haven't had a drink in weeks.

I don't crave it anymore. I was a big time drinker until the beginning of last year. The drinking lasted for about six years.

When I began peating I was feeling fantastic. I still craved alcohol, but not for any metabolic reasons, my body didn't ask for it. I'm pretty sure it was a self-harm thing. Putting alcohol and smoke into your body to "keep it real". Quell the neurotic thoughts with substances just as nasty.

I've been consuming a lot of OJ, milk, sugar, salt, coffee, liver, Vit D. The staples. (There's a Lewis Carroll logic exercise that includes the sentence "All teetotalers like sugar", I guess there's something to that.)

Tianeptine too. The effect of tianeptine is very much like being a little drunk without the drawbacks.

Perhaps I'll get depressed and hit the bottle again eventually, in which case I'll make sure to stick to white tequila (beats vodka and rum imo).

 

[kaybb]

I've seen your posts referring to migraine too.

I've never made expresso.
For the last few months I've been having very little caooofee/caffeine: 0-1/2 tsp/day decaf instant. Surprisingly, I get a noticable short term positive effect from as little 1/4 -1/2 tsp. Esp. if I feel as though I've overeaten on carbs in the last hour.
I've never drunk large amounts, but for a couple of years I was having more than that - eg up to one full caffeine coffee a day, or a couple of tablespoons of decaf.
It seems to me that I am prone to having worse migraines in the rebound if I have much - eg sleep very deep and long and wake up with migraine process underway and unstoppable. The more coffee I've drunk over the previous few days, the more likely I'll have the strong drugs fail to effectively stop the pain.
I've considered trying to avoid the rebound by keeping the caffeine level up all the time, or only have it in the evening so it doesn't run out by the time I wake up. But I seem to lose my taste for the coffee if I push it, and forcing it doesn't seem to do me good.
I've read about a couple of processes that I think may be involved, but I'm not confident that I've pinned down why it happens.

I may well experiment with a bit more again having more at some stage, and see if I can get it working better for me.

I also use a little topical caffeine (a brew related to Haidut's solban), but I'm assuming this is systemically not big enough to make much difference, and also more even in terms of slow release into the system.

I think we all respond so differently to coffee and caffeine that there's no being confident that your experience would be similar to mine. I don't know whether to suggest experimenting with less coffee, or to assume that the fact you enjoy it so much is a sign that it's doing you more good than harm - in which case, it might be more about keeping the intake fairly regular so you don't get too deep withdrawal dips.

Someone posted about coffee enemas being one of the most effective things he knew for aborting migraine. I've not tried it.

Oh, thank you for your response because I got it wrong on the espresso ! All along I have been saying Tara with migraines has espresso so my coffee addiction might be ok ...haha. So glad that is cleared up. The morning headaches are what I am fighting & pain meds not as effective so I need to cut back. Good idea to keep it consistent. Thanks again !! I really appreciate any info. The migraines have gotten worse lately :/. So I am searching for help.

 

[tara]

The migraines have gotten worse lately :/. So I am searching for help.

Bad luck. Mine are no less frequent, but sometimes I get away with shorter/more easily medicated ones. I'll be sure to jump up and down loudly (and post) if and when I get any major reduction in frequency. :) No doubt you will too. Good luck.

 

[kaybb]

I'll be sure to jump up and down loudly (and post) if and when I get any major reduction in frequency. :) No doubt you will too. Good luck.

Yes ! Yes ! Let do!!

 

[LUH 3417]

Does anyone know what newsletter Ray Peat dedicated to addiction? @haidut mentions it on the show with Danny roddy generative energy #15.

 

[KalosKaiAgathos]

Highly recommended, Stanton's Peele's work on addiction.