Jordan Peterson Post-Recovery Interview

[thomas00]

Peterson is an absolute hack.

I have absolutely no idea what need he was filling in some young men, aside from insecure reactionary type whos weren't so sure of their intelligence, and found some degree of validation in seeing somebody in academia regurgitate their views. Specifically a modern version of 'reds under beds'. There are a few things I am in agreement with him about but these are petty social gripes and fashionable politics for the most part and they are best ignored rather than turned into a culture war by means of taking an opposing position and keeping the 'issues' alive.

As for the rest of his gobbledygook he's been jetsetting around the world spreading on those big patreon bucks, what can you say? It's just pure creativity for the most part with absolutely no utility, as far as I can see. It obviously didn't help him much.

To the people in the thread bemoaning the supposed hostility towards him- this man has done harm. He's been a propagandist for the establishment while fashioning himself as anti-establishment character. Whether it was making ham-fisted attempts at biological arguments for hierarchy or ruthless domination ,or just ignoring all the harms our economic system inflicts on people. All this in an era of bank bailouts, huge government and corporate fraud, increased suicide, poor health, poor job prospects and massive consolidation of capital.

I'll be generous put his lack of empathy down to SSRIs.

His daughter is a grifter.

 

[Kvothe]

So, his content is spam and his lectures are useless? You would prefer he was de-platformed or otherwise censored? Isn't this exactly the authoritarian mindset?

It seems you're the one with the authoritarian mindset, as you immediately assume I want to censor someone just because I call them stupid. I think Peterson's work has zero value, and I think he is a hypocrite and an authoritarian. That doesn't mean that I want him to be banned or censored, and I didn't say anything in that direction. Everyone should have the right to voice their opinion, even angry, depressed authoritarians like Peterson.

 

[Soren]

My biggest disagreement with regards to Ray Peat is his views in support of some form of socialism/communism and it amazes me that there are so many apologists for socialism and communism on this forum. I think the reason for that is the current system with all its many flaws is erroneously labeled as a capitalist, people see the cronyism the corruption etc and think well what is the opposite of this "capitalist" system that produces so much corruption and gravitate to communism. The problem is the current system we have is not really free market capitalism, it is much more akin to Corporatism.

If people don't understand the conspiracy to smear Stalin, to smear communism in general, especially in the West, and have bought into the propaganda, how can they possibly understand communism?

Energizer, no disrespect but if you believe that Stalin was not really a bad guy and that all the evils of him and communism were down to some western conspiracy I would submit that you are the one who has bought the propaganda and does not really understand communism.

Tell me was the Dekulakization that took place under Stalin where he announced the "liquidation of the kulaks as a class" and caused the death of up to 5,000,000 people from mass executions, hunger and disease part of the western propaganda campaign?

Dekulakization - Wikipedia
"Now we have the opportunity to carry out a resolute offensive against the kulaks, break their resistance, eliminate them as a class and replace their production with the production of kolkhozes and sovkhozes."[9] The Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party formalized the decision in a resolution titled "On measures for the elimination of kulak households in districts of comprehensive collectivization" on 30 January 1930. All kulaks were assigned to one of three categories:[4]

1. Those to be shot or imprisoned as decided by the local secret political police
2. Those to be sent to Siberia, the North, the Urals or Kazakhstan, after confiscation of their property
3. Those to be evicted from their houses and used in labor colonies within their own districts"

What about this photo taken at a parade in the Soviet Union with a banners that read "We will liquidate the kulaks as a class" and "All to the struggle against the wreckers of agriculture" Is this some fake photo put together by the evil capitalists to bring down communism?

Link to Photo

What about the famine in Ukraine as a result of the murder of the Kulaks where 3-12 million people died of starvation! Nothing to do with Stalin or communism I guess?
And why is it that every single place where communism has been tried you get the same result; poverty, tyranny, starvation and death?

China: 70 million dead
Soviet Union: 20 million dead
Cambodia: Nearly 1 in 3 people

But I guess that didn't work because it wasn't "real communism" whatever that is. Or because the evil capitalists conspired to stop it? Don't worry though we'll get it right next time, hope we don't kill another 100 million people, worth giving it another shot I guess.

There perhaps is nothing more Ironic then arguing against an Authoritarian mindset but then simultaneously defending possibly the most authoritarian philosophy in human history as well as some of the worst authoritarians such as Stalin.

Churchill said it best;

“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.”

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”

 

[LUH 3417]

My biggest disagreement with regards to Ray Peat is his views in support of some form of socialism/communism and it amazes me that there are so many apologists for socialism and communism on this forum. I think the reason for that is the current system with all its many flaws is erroneously labeled as a capitalist, people see the cronyism the corruption etc and think well what is the opposite of this "capitalist" system that produces so much corruption and gravitate to communism. The problem is the current system we have is not really free market capitalism, it is much more akin to Corporatism.



Energizer, no disrespect but if you believe that Stalin was not really a bad guy and that all the evils of him and communism were down to some western conspiracy I would submit that you are the one who has bought the propaganda and does not really understand communism.

Tell me was the Dekulakization that took place under Stalin where he announced the "liquidation of the kulaks as a class" and caused the death of up to 5,000,000 people from mass executions, hunger and disease part of the western propaganda campaign?

Dekulakization - Wikipedia
"Now we have the opportunity to carry out a resolute offensive against the kulaks, break their resistance, eliminate them as a class and replace their production with the production of kolkhozes and sovkhozes."[9] The Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party formalized the decision in a resolution titled "On measures for the elimination of kulak households in districts of comprehensive collectivization" on 30 January 1930. All kulaks were assigned to one of three categories:[4]

1. Those to be shot or imprisoned as decided by the local secret political police
2. Those to be sent to Siberia, the North, the Urals or Kazakhstan, after confiscation of their property
3. Those to be evicted from their houses and used in labor colonies within their own districts"

What about this photo taken at a parade in the Soviet Union with a banners that read "We will liquidate the kulaks as a class" and "All to the struggle against the wreckers of agriculture" Is this some fake photo put together by the evil capitalists to bring down communism?

Link to Photo

What about the famine in Ukraine as a result of the murder of the Kulaks where 3-12 million people died of starvation! Nothing to do with Stalin or communism I guess?
And why is it that every single place where communism has been tried you get the same result; poverty, tyranny, starvation and death?

China: 70 million dead
Soviet Union: 20 million dead
Cambodia: Nearly 1 in 3 people

But I guess that didn't work because it wasn't "real communism" whatever that is. Or because the evil capitalists conspired to stop it? Don't worry though we'll get it right next time, hope we don't kill another 100 million people, worth giving it another shot I guess.

There perhaps is nothing more Ironic then arguing against an Authoritarian mindset but then simultaneously defending possibly the most authoritarian philosophy in human history as well as some of the worst authoritarians such as Stalin.

Churchill said it best;

“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.”

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”

That ever shifting supposed victims group, zero evidence "famine kulaks/christian ethnic ukrainians who actually lived within borders of Poland at the time" big lie was debunked long ago as Nazi Germany propaganda disinformation, hyped and rehashed while hiding the source by a British bad poet and self described prankster mi6 agent named Robert Conquest in the 1970s.

Furthermore, capitalism is corporate fascism.

It is just the division of society into property owners and propertyless people which lies at the root of the crisis of the capitalist world.

Millions of workers, miners, quarrymen, agriculturists, and so forth, together extract raw material from the earth. They own neither the land nor the machinery they use, nor the products they raise. Millions of other workers manufacture the raw materials into finished products. They own neither the machinery they use nor the products they manufacture. These are the property of the capitalists and the landlords. The vast majority of people in society to-day are thus at the mercy of the private owners. They cannot organise the distribution of the wealth which they and their comrades have co-operated to produce, because they do not possess this wealth. It is the property of the private owners.

Here is to be found the fundamental reason why the socially necessary goods are obtainable only in the market-place as commodities. The private property owners have no other means for the disposal of the goods others have made for them. They cannot givethe goods to society, for that would be an abandonment of the right of private property to extract profit. They cannot distribute the goods according to the needs of the people, however vast and urgent those needs may be, because private property production is governed by the law of production for profit irrespective of the needs of the people. The criterion of all capitalist enterprise is—does it make a profit? When it ceases to make a profit it goes bankrupt—it is finished and the workers are cast on to the scrapheap of unemployment.

For the capitalist there is no other way of disposing of the goods produced other than through the exchange market, the laws of which are not need nor beauty, nor quality. It is a transaction between individuals exchanging property, however repeated, however multiplied, however varied. One can have exactly according to his means to pay. If you have £1 or its equivalent you can have £1’s worth of goods. If you have nothing, then you can exchange nothing.

 

[Terma]

He was trying to give students sense of value: Jordan Peterson Explains What Draws People to Socialism
but doing that within his frameworks you can only get philosophy of self-sacrifice. The suicide video tip he gives is the same. I see positive in his interviews because he's more like working from a cage and correctly identifies problems of people that age but takes focus from education and health as stated.

I tell my audiences very clearly that their life is going to be difficult and sometimes difficult beyond both imagining and tolerance. That is definitely in your future, if it isn't in your present, and for many people it's in their present.

That can be unbearable enough to turn you against life itself. To corrupt you, to drive you to nihilism, to drive you to suicide, and worse, to drive you to thoughts of vengefulness of infinite scope. To not only be turned against yourself and your fellow men but to be turned against being itself because of its intrinsically brutal, in some sense, nature. That it's worse than that actually because it's not only that we suffer and that that will necessarily occur, but that we all make our suffering worse because of our ignorance and our malevolence and everyone knows that to be true.

Still look around for popular idols, he had a brain and I'm curious where he takes this because I know he just got a new take on "intrinsically brutal".

 

[michael94]

Churchill said it best;

“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.”

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”

Think of it this way, Capitalism as we know it today is less about keeping what you earn and more about enabling a financial/banking class that produces nothing. Someone who is pro free market might say that it's a moral hazard to give people free things but are hypocritical when these free things come in the form of neverending interest payments.

The idea that Capitalism is about earning your place whereas Socialism is just free stuff, is more a product of how broken a country America is and how beholden our democracy has become to money interests. I guess some Capitalists would say it is part of "free market competition" to use deception to con and coerce people. I think people who are fiscally conservative and those who are more progressive have a common enemy in the banking/media class.

 

[CoconutEffect]

+ 1 !!

I'm surprised by how aggressive and negative all the are comments about JP. It strikes me that most people have not watched the entirety of the interview, he is quite contrite in it and openly states that he should have known better when it comes to the medication he was on.

He is clearly wrong when it comes to Serotonin and his all meat diet is not good but it was the result of him trying to find a solution to his crushing autoimmune issues. Anyone here who claims that they have always got everything with diet right the whole way is full of ***t. I know for myself before I discovered Ray Peat I made some horrible diet choices I believed to be healthy because I felt like it was doing me good and recommend others to do the same.

The attacks on him by some in this thread are really quite abhorrent;



This is really twisted in my opinion, the guy is not evil, he has helped thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of people turn their lives around, to get out of that learnt helpless state, that endless cycle of misery. He has probably saved thousands from suicide and misery. Is he perfect? No. Does he get some things wrong? Yes. But he doesn't claim to be the final authority on the topics he discusses and in my opinion he has done a lot more good then harm.

Watch the video below and then tell me you experience a little "schadenfreude" from seeing this man suffer.



By the way the audience member who asked him that question came up to him after the show when he was getting photos and told him he was the one who asked the question. He tells the story in another interview.

Saved the man's life and God knows how many people just from those who listened to this video and his other lectures. But yea go ahead and take pleasure in his suffering I would submit to you that anyone who does is the one who is in poor health.

 

[Soren]

I think people who are fiscally conservative and those who are more progressive have a common enemy in the banking/media class.

Couldn't agree more. We currently do not have true free market capitalism in the west and we have not for a long time. We have ever shrinking capitalism and ever growing Corporatism.

However in spite of that overall for the vast majority of the world things have been getting a lot better. People live longer, have more food, there is less poverty, less child deaths, less war, less murder, less rape etc.

The eradication of extreme poverty in the majority of the world has actually been nothing short of astonishing over the last 20 years to say we should risk all that for a system which has only ever failed to me is a very bad idea. The banking/media class would love for us to do that.

 

[LUH 3417]

Couldn't agree more. We currently do not have true free market capitalism in the west and we have not for a long time. We have ever shrinking capitalism and ever growing Corporatism.

However in spite of that overall for the vast majority of the world things have been getting a lot better. People live longer, have more food, there is less poverty, less child deaths, less war, less murder, less rape etc.

The eradication of extreme poverty in the majority of the world has actually been nothing short of astonishing over the last 20 years to say we should risk all that for a system which has only ever failed to me is a very bad idea. The banking/media class would love for us to do that.

Do you realize that communist China has led a majority of the worlds population out of poverty? And that property ownership, quality of life and personal wealth have declined in the US in the past 20 years (for the vast majority of citizens, not speaking of billionaires)

 

[michael94]

Couldn't agree more. We currently do not have true free market capitalism in the west and we have not for a long time. We have ever shrinking capitalism and ever growing Corporatism.

However in spite of that overall for the vast majority of the world things have been getting a lot better. People live longer, have more food, there is less poverty, less child deaths, less war, less murder, less rape etc.

The eradication of extreme poverty in the majority of the world has actually been nothing short of astonishing over the last 20 years to say we should risk all that for a system which has only ever failed to me is a very bad idea. The banking/media class would love for us to do that.

Quote

"The fundamental failure, the basic error, upon which this whole wrong chain of treaties, demands, and promises to the people has been constructed, is an entirely wrong attitude toward industrial capital and loan-capital. The Communist Manifesto, the Erfurt Program, Marx, Engels, Lasalle, Kautsky, have not recognized the radical difference between industrial capital and loan-capital. On this point the entire Social-Democracy must relearn; this fundamental error must be clearly recognized and frankly admitted without reservation. Then however one must also relentlessly draw the only possible conclusions. These however signify radical renunciation of the pointless, because completely 51 mistaken, rage against industry, against the employer. Worker and work-giver belong together; they have the same goal -- work, production; for without production, without work, there can be no life, no culture, no forward, and no upward. The self-evident and unavoidable oppositions that exist among humans, just because they are humans, are much less important than the great shared interest of employer and employee. These oppositions are and have been resolvable by means of wage-contracts and trade-organizations to the mutual satisfaction of both sides"

Loan Capital makes exponential demands in a finite sphere ( Humans and the Earth ). Thus to pay debts the Earth is raped for someone else's capital gain. This is not to say that Industrial Capital alone cannot abuse and misuse the Earth, but that is more of a matter of personal integrity in our leadership rather than fundamental flaw.

Do you realize that communist China has led a majority of the worlds population out of poverty? And that property ownership, quality of life and personal wealth have declined in the US in the past 20 years (for the vast majority of citizens, not speaking of billionaires)

The CCP is in charge of China, but they run a Industrial Capitalist system. The State Bank of China largely funnels money into productive projects rather then let private Banks decide where it goes ( often in America this amounts speculation in Real Estate, Stock Buybacks, etc.). Downstream in America this leads to productive activity via exchanges for places to live etc., but it is the banking oligarchy that decides the terms of the economy as well as rakes off their keep ad infinitum. And the power relation is different, if debts are primarily to the State then the State can cancel debts when they are unnecessary or counter productive. No such thing in America where debts are sacred.

 

[Soren]

That ever shifting supposed victims group, zero evidence "famine kulaks/christian ethnic ukrainians who actually lived within borders of Poland at the time" big lie was debunked long ago as Nazi Germany propaganda disinformation, hyped and rehashed while hiding the source by a British bad poet and self described prankster mi6 agent named Robert Conquest in the 1970s.

The idea that there is zero evidence for the mass killings of the Kulaks is absurd. In 2003 even the Russian Federation signed an international statement acknowledging the Soviets' role in the famine. There are KGB archives, eye witness testimony. Women literally ended up eating their own children to survive. This is not some wild conspiracy there is overwhelming evidence. There are Ukrainian's who still tell the stories of the horrors of the famine within their families. If you really want to make it simple you just have to look at the population records for Ukraine.

"In the 1959 Soviet census. This was compiled 14 years after the Second World War, which had robbed Ukraine of 16% of its people. So you can see a tight “waist” due to greatly reduced birthrate and increased child mortality around age 14, for males, left and females, right. There’s another constriction at age 42, coinciding with the Bolshevik revolution of 1917 and resulting civil war.

Well, look between them, at age 26, corresponding to births in 1933. That’s the Holodomor.

The constriction represents the six hundred thousand children who would have been born, and all the babies who died suffering horribly from acute malnutrition. According to Anne Applebaum’s *Red Famine*, “females born in Ukraine in that year lived, on average, to be eight years old. Males born in 1933 could expect to live to the age of five.”

But you could be right I guess all those millions of people in China, Russia, Ukraine etc who vanished just were never really there? In China some estimates say it was up to 100,000,000 dead, was that also part of some wicked disinformation campaign? Ok let's accept they exaggerated the deaths what was the real number, was it "only" 70 million, 40 million? Or was that also some well orchestrated plot. Are the testimonials from those in China who lost their family members due to starvation and purges just made up propaganda too?

This idea that there was not a purge of the Kulaks and there is zero evidence is of the famine is so absurd it is hard to know where to start.

 

[Soren]

Do you realize that communist China has led a majority of the worlds population out of poverty? And that property ownership, quality of life and personal wealth have declined in the US in the past 20 years (for the vast majority of citizens, not speaking of billionaires)

This is simply factually wrong since 2000 the average income per person has increased 29%, infant survival has increased 2% and life expectancy has increased from 76.6 to 78.5.https://humanprogress.org/ylin

Now I will admit that at present a lot of these things could rapidly reverse because our food supply is a toxic disaster and the pharmaceutical industry keep pushing toxic chemicals on us but it is simply not factually accurate to say that the quality of life and personal wealth have declined in the US in the past 20 years. At the very least it is open to interpretation.

With regards to China, the reason that a large portion of their population have been lifted out of poverty has nothing to do with communism and everything to do with capitalism. The Chinese government basically stood back and let the free market do whatever it wanted for a time and this is what resulted in the lifting of people out of poverty. The CCP basically got out of the way. Very similar to what has happened and continues to happen in India.

Unfortunately the CCP have decided to step in again and have stopped or reversed a lot of this progress and now are heavily involved in the economy and are basically propping the whole thing up through massive government spending, debt and corporatism. I have a bit of experience in China and I can tell you that the economy has some massive problems at present and these stem from huge government intervention basically reverting back to the Communist style centralized control that caused the problems in the first place.

 

[LUH 3417]

This is simply factually wrong since 2000 the average income per person has increased 29%, infant survival has increased 2% and life expectancy has increased from 76.6 to 78.5.https://humanprogress.org/ylin

Now I will admit that at present a lot of these things could rapidly reverse because our food supply is a toxic disaster and the pharmaceutical industry keep pushing toxic chemicals on us but it is simply not factually accurate to say that the quality of life and personal wealth have declined in the US in the past 20 years. At the very least it is open to interpretation.

With regards to China, the reason that a large portion of their population have been lifted out of poverty has nothing to do with communism and everything to do with capitalism. The Chinese government basically stood back and let the free market do whatever it wanted for a time and this is what resulted in the lifting of people out of poverty. The CCP basically got out of the way. Very similar to what has happened and continues to happen in India.

Unfortunately the CCP have decided to step in again and have stopped or reversed a lot of this progress and now are heavily involved in the economy and are basically propping the whole thing up through massive government spending, debt and corporatism. I have a bit of experience in China and I can tell you that the economy has some massive problems at present and these stem from huge government intervention basically reverting back to the Communist style centralized control that caused the problems in the first place.

These are global statistics. I said the United States.

Regarding infant mortality, there have been significant advances in the NICU, although many of those babies end up dying months later or with severe neurological issues, and those are not included in the statistics. Just because we can keep a baby alive with mechanical ventilation and feeding tubes doesn’t mean anything about actual health.

Home ownership rate in 2004 in the US was 69.2, in 2019 it was 65.1%.
U.S. homeownership rate 1990-2019 | Statista

1 in 125 children were autistic in the US in 2004, today in New Jersey 1 in 32 children are autistic. And please don’t tell me it’s because diagnostics have improved.

 

[LUH 3417]

The idea that there is zero evidence for the mass killings of the Kulaks is absurd. In 2003 even the Russian Federation signed an international statement acknowledging the Soviets' role in the famine. There are KGB archives, eye witness testimony. Women literally ended up eating their own children to survive. This is not some wild conspiracy there is overwhelming evidence. There are Ukrainian's who still tell the stories of the horrors of the famine within their families. If you really want to make it simple you just have to look at the population records for Ukraine.

"In the 1959 Soviet census. This was compiled 14 years after the Second World War, which had robbed Ukraine of 16% of its people. So you can see a tight “waist” due to greatly reduced birthrate and increased child mortality around age 14, for males, left and females, right. There’s another constriction at age 42, coinciding with the Bolshevik revolution of 1917 and resulting civil war.

Well, look between them, at age 26, corresponding to births in 1933. That’s the Holodomor.

The constriction represents the six hundred thousand children who would have been born, and all the babies who died suffering horribly from acute malnutrition. According to Anne Applebaum’s *Red Famine*, “females born in Ukraine in that year lived, on average, to be eight years old. Males born in 1933 could expect to live to the age of five.”

But you could be right I guess all those millions of people in China, Russia, Ukraine etc who vanished just were never really there? In China some estimates say it was up to 100,000,000 dead, was that also part of some wicked disinformation campaign? Ok let's accept they exaggerated the deaths what was the real number, was it "only" 70 million, 40 million? Or was that also some well orchestrated plot. Are the testimonials from those in China who lost their family members due to starvation and purges just made up propaganda too?

This idea that there was not a purge of the Kulaks and there is zero evidence is of the famine is so absurd it is hard to know where to start.

“Some estimates say”

https://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

Fake graph, and Anne appleBomb is a notorious liar and non-historian married to a right wing Poland politician. Example: she recently wrote or had ghostwritten for her that the german-soviet 1939 nonagression treaty was a "military alliance" between the USSR and nazi germany. That's outrageously false.
Anne applebaum joined the CIA at Yale and is from an elite Washington DC family of liar lawyers.

 

[Soren]

These are global statistics. I said the United States.

They're not global statistics you have to go to the link, select the country and the time period.

 

[Soren]

Regarding infant mortality, there have been significant advances in the NICU, although many of those babies end up dying months later or with severe neurological issues, and those are not included in the statistics. Just because we can keep a baby alive with mechanical ventilation and feeding tubes doesn’t mean anything about actual health.

Average lifespan is increasing worldwide and infant mortality has collapsed worldwide and it has virtually nothing to do with advances in NICU. That may be true in the western world where Child mortality is already low but for the rest of the world it is down to improvements that have come about due to an increase in free market capitalism.

I agree autism increases are not down to better testing. I think that the prevalence of SSRIs during and after pregnancy and many other factors are the main cause of this.

 

[MatheusPN]

That ever shifting supposed victims group, zero evidence "famine kulaks/christian ethnic ukrainians who actually lived within borders of Poland at the time" big lie was debunked long ago as Nazi Germany propaganda disinformation, hyped and rehashed while hiding the source by a British bad poet and self described prankster mi6 agent named Robert Conquest in the 1970s.

Furthermore, capitalism is corporate fascism.

It is just the division of society into property owners and propertyless people which lies at the root of the crisis of the capitalist world.

Millions of workers, miners, quarrymen, agriculturists, and so forth, together extract raw material from the earth. They own neither the land nor the machinery they use, nor the products they raise. Millions of other workers manufacture the raw materials into finished products. They own neither the machinery they use nor the products they manufacture. These are the property of the capitalists and the landlords. The vast majority of people in society to-day are thus at the mercy of the private owners. They cannot organise the distribution of the wealth which they and their comrades have co-operated to produce, because they do not possess this wealth. It is the property of the private owners.

Here is to be found the fundamental reason why the socially necessary goods are obtainable only in the market-place as commodities. The private property owners have no other means for the disposal of the goods others have made for them. They cannot givethe goods to society, for that would be an abandonment of the right of private property to extract profit. They cannot distribute the goods according to the needs of the people, however vast and urgent those needs may be, because private property production is governed by the law of production for profit irrespective of the needs of the people. The criterion of all capitalist enterprise is—does it make a profit? When it ceases to make a profit it goes bankrupt—it is finished and the workers are cast on to the scrapheap of unemployment.

For the capitalist there is no other way of disposing of the goods produced other than through the exchange market, the laws of which are not need nor beauty, nor quality. It is a transaction between individuals exchanging property, however repeated, however multiplied, however varied. One can have exactly according to his means to pay. If you have £1 or its equivalent you can have £1’s worth of goods. If you have nothing, then you can exchange nothing.

Great! I totally agree about capitalism.

Hey, @Soren what will happen when you implement your capitalist free-market in the era of Standard Oil?
Are you talking about, the right libertarianism or what system?

Free-market? Do you know the free-market socialism?

 

[LUH 3417]

Average lifespan is increasing worldwide and infant mortality has collapsed worldwide and it has virtually nothing to do with advances in NICU. That may be true in the western world where Child mortality is already low but for the rest of the world it is down to improvements that have come about due to an increase in free market capitalism.

I agree autism increases are not down to better testing. I think that the prevalence of SSRIs during and after pregnancy and many other factors are the main cause of this.

what improvements from free market capitalism have decreased infant mortality? Why does saving the heart beat of an infant trump improving the health of that person? Is living 3 months on life support equivalent to an increase in vitality? Where are the stats for healthier children sans diseases (not talking about illness that can be cured with antibiotics)

 

[Soren]

“Some estimates say”

https://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

Fake graph, and Anne appleBomb is a notorious liar and non-historian married to a right wing Poland politician. Example: she recently wrote or had ghostwritten for her that the german-soviet 1939 nonagression treaty was a "military alliance" between the USSR and nazi germany. That's outrageously false.
Anne applebaum joined the CIA at Yale and is from an elite Washington DC family of liar lawyers.

You have not really provided much evidence here other than saying that the people referenced have a different opinion to you so they must be liars.

But if we're going to play that game let's look at the author who you have referenced Douglas Tottle.

He was a Canadian unionist and apologist for the USSR.

Douglas Tottle – Useful Stooges
"His book came out in December 1987, and almost simultaneously the head of the Ukrainian Communist party, Volodymyr Shcherbytskyi, publicly acknowledged the reality of the Holodomor. Being a good Communist soldier (and not an objective historian, as he’d presented himself), Tottle bowed to the party line and withdrew his book."

 

[michael94]

“Some estimates say”

https://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf

Fake graph, and Anne appleBomb is a notorious liar and non-historian married to a right wing Poland politician. Example: she recently wrote or had ghostwritten for her that the german-soviet 1939 nonagression treaty was a "military alliance" between the USSR and nazi germany. That's outrageously false.
Anne applebaum joined the CIA at Yale and is from an elite Washington DC family of liar lawyers.

Well the way Tottle seems to argue is that there was a terrible famine in Ukraine but it wasn't the fault of the Soviet Union and but more due to weather conditions. Is that right? I haven't read the book in its entirety though