Is A Full Stool Analysis Test Worth It?

[Josh]

Sorry everyone i know i post here a lot, i just really value your opinions and a lot of the time you can guys can really save me a lot of time.

As you may have seen i've posted about the issues i have faced: Eczema, Dry skin, I potentially have acne/fungal acne on my face, it gets red and itchy in the t-zone area, Hair loss, Dandruff, Anxiousness, Brain fog, Struggle to gain muscle mass despite high testosterone, Fatigue, Fatigue after eating food, Gas, bloating, gas, Gut/eczema issues after consuming probiotics or foods with probiotics eg raw milk like gas/rumbling etc/..

i've taken anti biotics like 15 times in my lifetime (Only 21yo) So if i can avoid taking more anti biotics i'd be happy but if i have no choice i would. I was considering getting a SIBO breath test to rule out SIBO but i know these are not 100% accurate and don't obviously give a full picture of the gut..

I've been thinking of paying for a full stool analysis, Now this is really out of my price range but if it's REALLY worth it then i'd be prepared to pay for it. How accurate and beneficial can these analaysis' be to help determine my issues?? Obviously with the info it gives me i can structure a proper plan to recover the gut in anyway i need.

I was thinking one like this: GI EcologiX™ - Invivo Healthcare or if you guys have better suggestions for the uk.

I appreciate your responses as always.

 

[Momentum]

I don't know about a stool test, but I recently did the following test (minus the dna) and found it helpful. Since implementing my deficiencies I'm feeling better. https://www.gdx.net/product/nutreval-fmv-nutritional-test-blood-urine
My thoughts lately have been you can throw all the pre and probiotics, bone broth etc at your gut, but if you have nutritional deficiencies you won't fix your gut. Is it the chicken or the egg? I'm not sure, but what I do know is that friends and myself have tried the leaky gut protocols for years and they didn't seem to help.

What has helped me (and I think this is individual) is:
dramatically reducing oxalates (big improvement in health)
increasing my silica (because I have collagen issues and collagen is huge) more improvement
increasing EFA's - improvement again, but I'm working on getting more specific
addressing nutrient deficiencies - pretty big improvement

 

[Josh]

I don't know about a stool test, but I recently did the following test (minus the dna) and found it helpful. Since implementing my deficiencies I'm feeling better. https://www.gdx.net/product/nutreval-fmv-nutritional-test-blood-urine
My thoughts lately have been you can throw all the pre and probiotics, bone broth etc at your gut, but if you have nutritional deficiencies you won't fix your gut. Is it the chicken or the egg? I'm not sure, but what I do know is that friends and myself have tried the leaky gut protocols for years and they didn't seem to help.

What has helped me (and I think this is individual) is:
dramatically reducing oxalates (big improvement in health)
increasing my silica (because I have collagen issues and collagen is huge) more improvement
increasing EFA's - improvement again, but I'm working on getting more specific
addressing nutrient deficiencies - pretty big improvement

Interesting thanks for the Reply!

 

[Josh]

Suprised nobody else has chimed in here.. Has no one ever carried out a comprehensive stool test like the one in OP or know anything about them?

 

[Josh]

@haidut @charlie @tara @Blossom @Such_Saturation


does anyone have an opinion of Stool tests/breath tests here???

 

[scoobydoo]

I think they can be very insightful
However many tests out there are not very telling and you also need to have the knowledge of what to do with the information. The gut is complicated

 

[charlie]

@haidut @charlie @tara @Blossom @Such_Saturation


does anyone have an opinion of Stool tests/breath tests here???

I do not have any experience with them or have researched them at all.

 

[charlie]

@haidut @charlie @tara @Blossom @Such_Saturation


does anyone have an opinion of Stool tests/breath tests here???

I think @Tarmander has experience with them.

 

[Jennifer]

I've done two comprehensive stool tests through Genova Diagnostics and two hydrogen breath tests and they only told me what I already knew given my symptoms — I had a bacterial overgrowth. I took the prescribed antibiotics and they cleared most of my symptoms (replace the eczema and acne with a facial rash and I had all the same symptoms as you) while I was on them, but my symptoms always returned, and with a vengeance, after the course was over.

The only thing that truly worked was targeting the cause — weak thyroid and adrenal glands — via NDT, herbs, a change in diet and relaxation techniques. Thankfully, my insurance covered the breath tests, but the stool tests cost me $1,000 that could have been put to better use like on a slow juicer (to reduce the fiber in my diet because it can fuel SIBO), quality fruit and animal proteins, and weekly massages and other self-care tools to relax my nervous system.

 

[Tarmander]

I think @Tarmander has experience with them.

Gut Protocol For Insulin Resistance, Metabolism, And Energy

Using AI To Alter Your Gut Microbiome (Quax Interview)

I have one out right now waiting on results

It is a moving target. I am not sure how useful just one is. It would give you some recommendations but after doing those recommendations for a month or two, things would change and you'd want a new test. So kind of a commitment but it has paid off for me with better sleep and exercise

 

[Josh]

I've done two comprehensive stool tests through Genova Diagnostics and two hydrogen breath tests and they only told me what I already knew given my symptoms — I had a bacterial overgrowth. I took the prescribed antibiotics and they cleared most of my symptoms (replace the eczema and acne with a facial rash and I had all the same symptoms as you) while I was on them, but my symptoms always returned, and with a vengeance, after the course was over.

The only thing that truly worked was targeting the cause — weak thyroid and adrenal glands — via NDT, herbs, a change in diet and relaxation techniques. Thankfully, my insurance covered the breath tests, but the stool tests cost me $1,000 that could have been put to better use like on a slow juicer (to reduce the fiber in my diet because it can fuel SIBO), quality fruit and animal proteins, and weekly massages and other self-care tools to relax my nervous system.

Hmm yeah thats my worry, i know i've got gut issues already, i was just more thinking that with the tests, i'll get a definite so that i can be confident about how i will attack them, as opposed to just taking anti biotics or lots of natural antimicrobials and MAYBE i didn't have to? I mean could i maybe find out something else about my gut that may not warrant the use of anti biotics? Or is that all there is?

What kind of facial rash did you get? thats not good..

I've been considering the NDT for a long time, i just wanted to make that my last thing to try..

 

[Josh]

Gut Protocol For Insulin Resistance, Metabolism, And Energy

Using AI To Alter Your Gut Microbiome (Quax Interview)

I have one out right now waiting on results

It is a moving target. I am not sure how useful just one is. It would give you some recommendations but after doing those recommendations for a month or two, things would change and you'd want a new test. So kind of a commitment but it has paid off for me with better sleep and exercise

........

Yeah thats what i've been thinking about, how one sample is just not enough data as the microbiome is always changing.. but i reallly cant afford to do these continuously like the one i linked costs about £339 ! Do you think it's worth me doing one at all??

 

[Jib]

I've had one done. Didn't have an action plan so I never did anything about it. I got tested just about exactly one year ago.

Agree about it being a moving target. No way for me to know that the results I got last year have any validity this year. The results are pretty extensive, but unless you're prepared to do a ton of your own research and speculation, the practical takeaway is virtually zero.

NutrEval might be more worth it IMO. I've had that done as well, and it is at least easier to address issues. If you're low in CoQ10, or alpha-lipoic acid, magnesium, etc. Just a lot more straightforward. Even then I think it has a pretty limited application, but the results would be easier to interpret and act on than results from a stool test.

I had high amounts of a ton of bacteria, but was completely missing a few very common and prevalent strains. No recommendations were given, though, just the info. I'm not a research scientist so it ended up just being me going, "Hm, that's interesting," doing a little cursory research, but ultimately doing nothing with it.

That's not to say you can't do anything with it. But you have to be prepared to interpret the results and develop a course of action based on them. Personally I have no idea how to do that.

It can be interesting, but for something you're unsure about developing a specific plan of action for, I would definitely hold off. If you can't really afford it, and it would be a stretch for you, I'd say hold on to your money and think carefully about other ways to address your current health problems.

 

[Momentum]

........

Yeah thats what i've been thinking about, how one sample is just not enough data as the microbiome is always changing.. but i reallly cant afford to do these continuously like the one i linked costs about £339 ! Do you think it's worth me doing one at all??

So, Josh, are you just looking to find out the strains of bad biotics and the amounts? For instance, that you have too much candida and you want to kill it off?
If I were to do a stool analysis I'd be looking to see if I have the more of the good guys like the probiotic that helps digest oxalates and the one that helps with B's especially if you have the MTHFR variant. (I can't remember the name of either one, but the oxalate one is listed in a thread on this site and the MRHFR one can be found by listening to Dr Ben Lynch's youtubes on MTHFR gut videos).
Could you be lactose intolerant? Have you tried a digestive enzyme for lactose?

Skin issues aren't my problem so I haven't done much research in that area. But gut issues can also be related to histamine and mast cell activation. A good way to test this is to take an H2 blocker such as Pepsin or if you can get ranitidine (sp?) that is the best. If gut symptoms clear, you'll know it's more MCAS than just leaky gut type stuff. (These meds are sold for heart burn as a proton pump inhibitor, but they are also a histamine 2 blocker.) For me, I have some type of collagen deficiency which leaves me with some loose joints, poor arteries and veins, and most likely weak gut. I have found silica helps with restoring collagen. Which, for me, needed to happen before the rest of gut repair.

If I were you, I'd be very curious about inability to build muscle even though your T is fine. You may want to define this further. You are saying that your muscles are not increasing in size, but are you also weak in addition to fatigue? Do you get more tired after exercise? Are certain muscles weaker than others - like your thighs?

 

[Josh]

I've had one done. Didn't have an action plan so I never did anything about it. I got tested just about exactly one year ago.

Agree about it being a moving target. No way for me to know that the results I got last year have any validity this year. The results are pretty extensive, but unless you're prepared to do a ton of your own research and speculation, the practical takeaway is virtually zero.

NutrEval might be more worth it IMO. I've had that done as well, and it is at least easier to address issues. If you're low in CoQ10, or alpha-lipoic acid, magnesium, etc. Just a lot more straightforward. Even then I think it has a pretty limited application, but the results would be easier to interpret and act on than results from a stool test.

I had high amounts of a ton of bacteria, but was completely missing a few very common and prevalent strains. No recommendations were given, though, just the info. I'm not a research scientist so it ended up just being me going, "Hm, that's interesting," doing a little cursory research, but ultimately doing nothing with it.

That's not to say you can't do anything with it. But you have to be prepared to interpret the results and develop a course of action based on them. Personally I have no idea how to do that.

It can be interesting, but for something you're unsure about developing a specific plan of action for, I would definitely hold off. If you can't really afford it, and it would be a stretch for you, I'd say hold on to your money and think carefully about other ways to address your current health problems.

Thanks for the reply!.. Yeah if i did get it done i'd get someone in that field to interpret it for me for sure, and then create a plan to attack it! ..

 

[Josh]

So, Josh, are you just looking to find out the strains of bad biotics and the amounts? For instance, that you have too much candida and you want to kill it off?
If I were to do a stool analysis I'd be looking to see if I have the more of the good guys like the probiotic that helps digest oxalates and the one that helps with B's especially if you have the MTHFR variant. (I can't remember the name of either one, but the oxalate one is listed in a thread on this site and the MRHFR one can be found by listening to Dr Ben Lynch's youtubes on MTHFR gut videos).
Could you be lactose intolerant? Have you tried a digestive enzyme for lactose?

Skin issues aren't my problem so I haven't done much research in that area. But gut issues can also be related to histamine and mast cell activation. A good way to test this is to take an H2 blocker such as Pepsin or if you can get ranitidine (sp?) that is the best. If gut symptoms clear, you'll know it's more MCAS than just leaky gut type stuff. (These meds are sold for heart burn as a proton pump inhibitor, but they are also a histamine 2 blocker.) For me, I have some type of collagen deficiency which leaves me with some loose joints, poor arteries and veins, and most likely weak gut. I have found silica helps with restoring collagen. Which, for me, needed to happen before the rest of gut repair.

If I were you, I'd be very curious about inability to build muscle even though your T is fine. You may want to define this further. You are saying that your muscles are not increasing in size, but are you also weak in addition to fatigue? Do you get more tired after exercise? Are certain muscles weaker than others - like your thighs?

Yes i'd be looking to see what bad bacteria etc, and yes exactly i'd be wanting to see if i have issues candida and stuff, can this test tell that?

I've had issues even when not consuming dairy for months on end.

Oh interesting stuff i'll take a look into the H2 blockers, thanks!

Well in terms of the muslce building thing, i think i worded that completely wrong.. i weigh about 70kg and i'm 5ft9 with barely any fat on me, there is muscle definition there, i really meant to say that i'm so fatigued and weak feeling sometimes that i can't do weights that i could do like when i was 15 (21 now) but this could be just to do with the build up of bad quality sleep i've had over the last 3 years, ALTHOUGH its improved drastically and literally this last week i've actually slept the best i have in so long so thats a plus.

Do you recommend the stool analysis and the breath test ?

 

[Jib]

Thanks for the reply!.. Yeah if i did get it done i'd get someone in that field to interpret it for me for sure, and then create a plan to attack it! ..

Then that would be good. That's all you need. Just a plan of action. Then it would be completely justifiable.

This is the main reason I haven't gotten my testosterone/estrogen/whatever tested. I just don't know what I would do with the results. I'm making dietary changes in line with Peat's theories about how the body works, and that's about it.

It is good as a research tool, though, and I will say that even though it was a year ago, I'm looking over my results with some interest. I had an overgrowth of "Citrobacter Freundii" for example, and knowing that gives me the ability to go on Google and do some actual research, whereas without the stool test, I would have nothing to go on. Mine found that I have absolutely zero parasites, for example, and candida is also not an issue.

I was also having chronic diarrhea at the time, and Citrobacter apparently is associated with IBS. It's been almost a complete non-issue for me these days since introducing large amounts of dairy, though my lactose digestion is not great. Just lots of bloating and gas, although strangely, no diarrhea or constipation, and actually the most regularity I've had in a long time, for months now.

The results are very extensive, but more likely than not, it'll be down to a few problematic strains of bacteria, particular strains being too high in number, or missing some other strains. So perhaps it isn't that overwhelming.

I've considered doing another NutrEval test. They are interesting. The stool test was pretty inconvenient and it felt very, very strange scooping my own **** into a test tube with a plastic spoon. It just does not feel like you're doing it right, like there is no way this is legit. Lol. But it is! Very strange experience but the results can be interesting. I personally didn't work with anyone to advise me and that perhaps is why I didn't get much out of it. In your situation it could be worthwhile to pursue. If anything, you'll have results and get that "bug" out of your head, wondering what's going on in your GI tract.

 

[Tarmander]

........

Yeah thats what i've been thinking about, how one sample is just not enough data as the microbiome is always changing.. but i reallly cant afford to do these continuously like the one i linked costs about £339 ! Do you think it's worth me doing one at all??

That is very spendy and I would not do one at that price.

I use thryve. The first one was around 120, after which I could get 3 for around 80 each. Maybe check into them for your location, although sounds like you are in Europe

 

[Momentum]

Yes i'd be looking to see what bad bacteria etc, and yes exactly i'd be wanting to see if i have issues candida and stuff, can this test tell that?

I've had issues even when not consuming dairy for months on end.

Oh interesting stuff i'll take a look into the H2 blockers, thanks!

Well in terms of the muslce building thing, i think i worded that completely wrong.. i weigh about 70kg and i'm 5ft9 with barely any fat on me, there is muscle definition there, i really meant to say that i'm so fatigued and weak feeling sometimes that i can't do weights that i could do like when i was 15 (21 now) but this could be just to do with the build up of bad quality sleep i've had over the last 3 years, ALTHOUGH its improved drastically and literally this last week i've actually slept the best i have in so long so thats a plus.

Do you recommend the stool analysis and the breath test ?

I really don't recommend a stool test. I've spent tens of thousands on testing over the last decade and very little was helpful - both standard labs and cash pay specialty. I do think the NutrVal was helpful as it found some deficiencies that I wasn't aware of. So I'm addressing those. I've also asked for more specific (insurance covered) labs recently and have gotten some answers. The standard blood panels are woefully lacking in detecting problems. But if you get a bit more specific, say a methylmalonic acid labs in addition to a serum B12 - you may get some answers that didn't show up in a standard serum B12 (a horrible test).

What would you do if your stool analysis showed overgrowth of bad bugs? Does a stool test even measure the presence of certain strains of good bugs like the oxalate and other one I mentioned? I think, like one person mentioned, your biome is always changing. From what I understand, not sure if it's true, is that you cannot "reseed" your gut. You either need to keep taking the missing strains or continue to feed them with prEbiotics (seems like the better answer). Add the good bugs you think you are missing, then feed them. You could also take something like olive leaf extract to kill some bad guys. You weren't even born yet during the big Candida Craze days. But back then the diet to reduce candida was insanely impossible follow and not too successful. We've learned a lot since then.
NutrVal will kind of look for gut stuff (the one I did didn't include dna or stool).

So does one address nutrient deficiencies or gut health or toxicity first? IDK. It's probably individual. From my personal experience - I'm leaning towards nutrient deficiencies first so that your body has the fuel to repair, restore and detox. I'm slowly detoxing all the time but feel I'm losing the race with our constant exposures.

 

[Jennifer]

Hmm yeah thats my worry, i know i've got gut issues already, i was just more thinking that with the tests, i'll get a definite so that i can be confident about how i will attack them, as opposed to just taking anti biotics or lots of natural antimicrobials and MAYBE i didn't have to? I mean could i maybe find out something else about my gut that may not warrant the use of anti biotics? Or is that all there is?

What kind of facial rash did you get? thats not good..

I've been considering the NDT for a long time, i just wanted to make that my last thing to try..

Yeah, I can understand wanting a definitive answer. Honestly, I'm not sure what else would be found with these types of tests and advised for treatment other than antibiotics, anti-fungals, herbs, enzymes, bile salts, and probiotics. It would likely still require dietary tweaks. I'm not sure what you've tried?

Genova's treatment options for my mum (she took the same test) and I were simple -- mine were antibiotics, both pharmaceutical and natural, and for my mum, antifungals, both pharmaceutical and natural. A more focused treatment plan came from the gastroenterologist, though, dietary was basically just the FODMAP diet. I chose minocycline, the same antibiotic Ray had suggested to me and it cleared my symptoms but like I mentioned in my previous post, I wasn't targeting the cause and all my symptoms returned once I stopped taking the mino. I started following what Ray suggested to me but with my own tweaks and I'm doing so good now -- I can't remember ever feeling this healthy. The closest I've ever come was on a raw fruitarian diet, which may not sound too impressive but I felt pretty amazing on that diet for the first couple of years.

My mum is also doing much better now since following a similar plan as me. She took the stool test twice, too -- one about 4 years ago and the other a couple months ago -- and had the same results both times. She even went vegan for 2 years during those 4 years yet still had the same results. Anyhow, the reason she took the test was because of excessive elimination/a hyper transit -- she was having at least 10 BMs a day. Her gastroenterologist made up a highly complicated supplement protocol and eating schedule, due to said supplement protocol, that would of cost her $400 (for a month supply of supplements) and her sanity (lol) so I came up with a plan for her that's pretty much the same as mine but tailored more to her likes and dislikes and within a couple of days her digestion was back to normal -- she only goes twice a day now.

The rash was a bleeding rash that would appear on my face within 15 minutes of consuming probiotics and probiotic rich food like dairy -- raw and cultured dairy was the most triggering and ultra-pasteurized the least triggering. An intolerance to probiotics is common with those who have SIBO. It makes sense to me that adding more bacteria to a pre-existing overgrowth of bacteria would only worsen things, but I happen to agree with Ray when in comes to bacteria and not the current theory out there so...