Iron

judi

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I know this thread isn't exactly current but I thought I'd reply anyway, in case it's worth something.

I asked RP about my ferritin in 2009 as it was out of range (upwards), although not as high as yours, narouz.

He said:
High ferritin suggests that there's continuing inflammation. Iron and calcium interact, so it might be worth having your parathyroid hormone tested. Despite your good vitamin D, you might not be getting enough calcium in relation to phosphate, and elevated PTH can cause generalized inflammation. Safe antiinflammatory things would be aspirin, calcium carbonate, coffee especially when taken with meat or eggs, salt or baking soda, and sugar.
In the US and Canada, I have noticed that the "normal range" for prolactin has been expanded upward, after a period in the '80s when it was lowered. I think this reflects a change in the population, from estrogen and PUFA, for example, and that the lower range was better for judging health.
(a couple of studies' abstracts followed)

In my case it really must have been inflammation as my CRP was also elevated at the time (about 3.9mg/L instead of below 1mg/L, which is ideal). I started drinking more coffee and supplemented with aspirin and over the next several months, my ferritin dropped by about 250 ug/L (would have to check my records for a precise number).
 
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narouz

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judi said:
I know this thread isn't exactly current but I thought I'd reply anyway, in case it's worth something.

I asked RP about my ferritin in 2009 as it was out of range (upwards), although not as high as yours, narouz.

He said:
High ferritin suggests that there's continuing inflammation. Iron and calcium interact, so it might be worth having your parathyroid hormone tested. Despite your good vitamin D, you might not be getting enough calcium in relation to phosphate, and elevated PTH can cause generalized inflammation. Safe antiinflammatory things would be aspirin, calcium carbonate, coffee especially when taken with meat or eggs, salt or baking soda, and sugar.
In the US and Canada, I have noticed that the "normal range" for prolactin has been expanded upward, after a period in the '80s when it was lowered. I think this reflects a change in the population, from estrogen and PUFA, for example, and that the lower range was better for judging health.
(a couple of studies' abstracts followed)
In my case it really must have been inflammation as my CRP was also elevated at the time (about 3.9mg/L instead of below 1mg/L, which is ideal). I started drinking more coffee and supplemented with aspirin and over the next several months, my ferritin dropped by about 250 ug/L (would have to check my records for a precise number).

Thanks, judi!
Interesting that he suggested having your PTH checked.
I haven't heard him recommend a lot of labs generally,
nor PTH specifically.
I wonder how that might influence diagnosis/treatment?
Seems like the treatment would still be the same anti-infammatory foods and supps
he generally recommends--at least I haven't heard Peat make specific recommendations
oriented toward high PTH.
Did you ever have yours checked.

What were your symptoms during that time?
Are you hypothyroid?
 

judi

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I did have my PTH tested and it came back fine, although RP said it wouldn't hurt to keep it even lower (by getting about 2000 mg of calcium daily).

Other tests he recommended at that time were FFAs and a serum interleukin-18.

RP:
Although I think knowing your PTH and free fatty acids will be useful (in judging use of calcium, sugar, aspirin, niacinamide, etc.), another test that could help to clarify the nature of the inflammation would be the serum interleukin-18, since it's associated with liver damage and increased ferritin, and symptoms of inflammation. Since TSH increases IL-18, finding it elevated would be another argument for keeping your TSH very low.

Yes, I'm hypo but been on thyroid supplement for years.

Hope you get to the bottom of this, narouz. Please let us know if you do (and what helped). RP suggested to me 300-500mg of aspirin to make a difference, which is what I took to get my ferritin down.
 
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narouz

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judi said:
I did have my PTH tested and it came back fine, although RP said it wouldn't hurt to keep it even lower (by getting about 2000 mg of calcium daily).

Other tests he recommended at that time were FFAs and a serum interleukin-18.

RP:
Although I think knowing your PTH and free fatty acids will be useful (in judging use of calcium, sugar, aspirin, niacinamide, etc.), another test that could help to clarify the nature of the inflammation would be the serum interleukin-18, since it's associated with liver damage and increased ferritin, and symptoms of inflammation. Since TSH increases IL-18, finding it elevated would be another argument for keeping your TSH very low.

Yes, I'm hypo but been on thyroid supplement for years.

Hope you get to the bottom of this, narouz. Please let us know if you do (and what helped). RP suggested to me 300-500mg of aspirin to make a difference, which is what I took to get my ferritin down.

Thank you, Judy.
Did you do any blood donation?
And on the calcium:
were you also drinking milk at the time?
Or did you need the supplement because you weren't drinking much milk?
 

judi

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You're welcome, narouz.

I don't think I was drinking enough milk at the time and I believe it took me a while to get used to drinking the appropriate amount. So I don't think my milk consumption was what eventually got the ferritin down. As far as I remember, it was the extra caffeine and aspirin that did the trick.

No blood donation; my blood is not wanted here because I used to live in the UK during the BSE/CJD scare.
 

jyb

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Blood donation is around 470mL, which is a good deal since typical volume is 5-6L. That's an iron reduction of almost 40% in a year assuming 4 donations and no absorption from food. However, since iron stores can be mobilized from storage at first, I'm not sure whether serum iron is reduced the first times.

I laugh when they tell me to get like 1/2 liter water before and another 1/2 after the donation, and make sure to eat iron rich food possibly by supplement and vitamin C to increase absorption. I make sure to do the exact opposite.
 

jyb

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I just wrote nonsense, let me correct with what I understand so far:

- A typical donation is 470mL blood (total volume is 5-6L depending on your bmi), so a bit less than 10% of total blood.
- 220-250mg of iron is lost http://www.redcrossblood.org/iron/frequent-donors
- Men lose 1mg iron per day, whereas 0.66mg is typically absorbed from a steak meal (20%).
- A typical body iron store may be 4-5g. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_iron_metabolism#Body_iron_stores) Rate of iron absorption from food is influenced by amount stored, so the 0.66mg figure above might change.

So, on a RP diet with only occasional meat/shellfish, in addition to calcium and coffee for reduces absorption, iron is lost progressively? But lets say iron still gets absorbed at 2mg per week (instead of a "healthy" diet providing 6-7mg I think, as 1mg per day is said to be replaced on such diet - but 1mg seems like a lot given that steak only gives 0.66mg and other sources are even less absorbed). That's 96mg per year, when 336mg is lost (50-100% more for women, but that's if we believe Wikipedia) - so that's 5% of iron stores reduction. With 4 donations that year, less than 20% is reduced from donations alone so donation is a lot more helpful. After a while though the body might increase rate of iron absorption as stores deplete, so the total of 25% might be off...

On another note, it seems like that if one wants to get more iron and blood cells out of the system during a donation, one should avoid drinking water before so that the concentration of the fluid extracted is higher (which goes against recommendations to drink loads before and after).
 

jaa

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Nice post jyb.

So drinking fluids after a donation is fine, right?
 

jyb

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@jaa: Well I assume that after the donation, the usual juice, milk and salt apply. The idea of reducing fluid intake before donation in order to increase output iron concentration, is just tentative and needs to be confirmed by someone more competent.
 

Asimov

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I donate double red blood cell. They spin off the red cells, and pump your own plasma and some saline back in.
 

Luann

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IronizedYeast1.jpg
500-1933-mar-p-97-dangerous-to-be-skinny-ad-ironized-yeast-top-measurements.jpg
 

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