Iron

Discussion in 'Minerals' started by narouz, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. narouz

    narouz Member

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    --Dr. Ray Peat
    from "Iron's Dangers"
    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/iron-dangers.shtml

    I think iron is an overlooked, major "bad guy" in PeatWorld.
    Personally, I have extremely high Ferritin levels,
    which could reflect high iron stores in my tissues,
    although it could also reflect high zinc.
    And it, high ferritin, might point also to "over-medication" on thyroid supplement.

    In any case, I've become very iron-conscious.

    Obvious sources:
    -meats, especially red meats
    -cooking with an iron skillet

    Some sorta surprising, "Peat-friendly" sources:
    -oysters
    -cocoa
     
  2. j.

    j. Guest

    I mix chocolate powder with coffee and milk. I hardly ever consume milk with just chocolate.
     
  3. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Narouz, could that test have been wrong? That was a pretty big jump you mentioned. Are you going to cut back on red meat? Also, its very interesting about taking too much thyroid will cause high iron! :(
     
  4. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    Sorry guys--I tried to upload this as a...well, chart.
    It came from a PDF file,
    and I can seem to get it to display like that.
    But I believe you can still open it and view it.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    Oh yeah: another potential source of iron
    pertinent to us Peatatarians:

    Bone Broth, if it is made with marrow bones.
    This would seem to be an argument for the use of beef feet
    (and other no- or low-marrow bones) for beef bone broth.
     
  6. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Uggggh. :(
     
  7. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    Charlie-
    Yeah...
    now bear in mind that I'm mostly focusing on Ferritin
    when I talk about Iron.

    And that gets complicated.
    Ferritin is not iron itself.
    It is just one lab test--the most common, I guess,
    that is used as a marker to estimate iron stores in the tissue.

    Dr. Peat said in an email that high Zinc stores can cause a high ferritin lab value.
    I've been taking a copper(3mg)/zinc(20mg) supplement
    to see if it would help lower my iron.
    I've also been eating quite a lot of oyster for the same reason.
    Again, Peat said to bear in mind that oysters have a lot of iron.
    Also a lot of zinc.
    In short, my sky-high ferritin level might not accurately reflect my stored iron.
    It might be reflecting my zinc, or zinc and iron.

    There are a couple of other lab tests
    my doctor did on me to check my iron:
    Serum Iron (mine was 164)
    Iron Binding Capacity (mine was 268)
    Apparently there's some kind of a formula using those two values
    which can tell one something about one's iron stores.
    Those two values are out of range,
    but not as astoundingly out of range as my ferritin (997) :shock:

    I don't eat much meat, especially red meat.
    I might have it twice or three times a week in smallish amounts,
    and I drink Coke with it (and do not drink OJ with it).
    Don't cook with an iron skillet....

    It would seem to be related to my thyroid supplement level,
    which I've been carefully raising the last several months
    from 2&1/2 grains Armour to 3&1/2.
    My TSH was .005. (extremely low).

    High ferritin levels are associated with hyperthyroidism (I'm hypo, sans meds),
    so it does seem likely that I induced myself into hyperthyroidism,
    and that why my ferritin is high.

    I know this is pretty abstruse stuff,
    and some of it belongs more properly I guess in the thyroid supplement thread.
    But...related to Iron,
    so I thought I put this here.
     
  8. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    I hadn't heard of blocking or mitigating iron with calcium.
    If it works, that would be cool.
    I usually make oyster stew with half&half to get my oysters.

    Has anyone heard of Peat saying calcium reduces iron when eaten in conjunction?
    (I've heard of coffee, from Peat, but not calcium.)
     
  9. Rachel

    Rachel Member

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    I heard of that from Danny Roddy, as well. Here's a little blurb from this site: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... nt&dbid=70

    There are references available.

    I'll have a coffee milk Mexicoke to go with that rib eye, thank you very much. :lol:
     
  10. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    I think we might need to look at iron from another angle.

    Iron, as we can see is in so many (If not practically all) of our foods so some restriction of the foods with higher content is a good idea BUT mitigation of iron absorbtion and its effects is our main defence in my opinion.

    Looking at it from that approach:

    - Caffeine reduces absorbtion and should be used often daily
    - Copper displaces iron so copper rich foods should be used often
    - Red light fixes the copper in our cells (A kind of reset) which as we know stimulates the oxidative metabolism
    - Vitamin E taken frequently reduces the oxidation of iron dramatically hindering its negative effects
    - Bag breathing/Butyeko method/Acetazolamide/Bicarbonate of soda - Increase CO2 in the blood and when the concentration is high enough it completely stops free radical oxidation (Oxygen blocked from oxidising iron/fatty acids/proteins etc)
    - Giving blood to reduce iron content
    - All of the alkaline nutrients (Magnesium, potassium, sodium, calcium) in our diets also increase the oxidative metabolism (Sugar too) increasing blood carbonic acid which again stops oxidation of iron

    I am probably missing other tools but this was just off the top of my head.

    We have a lots in our tool kit to stop the damage being done + displace the iron (Replace it with copper and get rid of it in the faeces).

    We will always get iron, I think we just have to be switched on in how to deal with and get rid of it as much as possible while minimising the risk of it damaging us in the process. Its something that needs to be done on an ongoing basis, permanently.
     
  11. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Kettlebell, :goodpost
     
  12. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    Thanks Charlie :): :thankyou
     
  13. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    Yeah, me too!
    Thanks, Rachel.
     
  14. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    I was thinking about this general angle too, kettlebell.
    That's why my recent lab, showing Ferritin 997 :shock: ,
    came as such a shock.
    I'm doing/eating those Peatian things you note pretty well.
    (Well...I'm not much of a bag-breather yet, he sheepishly acknowledged. :oops: )

    Then again, as I said, I think Ferritin may be a misinterpreted test.
    Dr. Peat sent me a study (I was so honored! :geek: , like Viggo Mortensen gave me girl advice)
    showing that zinc is also reflected in the ferritin value.

    I don't think you're hypothyroid, kettlebell,
    so...this is a kinduv specialized issue I need to pursue mostly in the thyroid thread.

    But I guess, as it stands, I think my experience serves maybe as a bit of a cautionary tale
    for those of us hypos and others who are trying to raise our metabolism
    by (and in addition to the other Peat principles) gradually raising thyroid supplementation.
    There is a link between hyperthyroidism and ferritin,
    and thus, maybe, to iron.
    997.
    WTF! :eek:
     
  15. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    Hi Narouz,

    I haven't had my iron levels tested but I am keen to get it done now.

    Apart from limiting iron rich foods and mitigating them when we eat them as discussed I suppose there is little else we can do. Is there any possibility that the result was mistaken?

    From what I have read of Peat the associations with various diseases he talks about are because of the iron doing the bad stuff - Oxidising etc. So if we are vigilant (From talking to you here I am certain you are) we can likely stop the iron from doing its damage.

    Ray speaks about it taking up to 4 years to heal. Maybe he was talking not just about getting rid of PUFA but getting rid of iron too?
     
  16. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    Yes, kettlebell,
    it would make sense.
    If you consider the part of the Peat quote that tops the thread...

    ...it would seem that,
    as PUFA goes,
    so goes Iron.

    I haven't heard Peat say that.
    But it would seem to follow, wouldn't it.
     
  17. fat4thought

    fat4thought Member

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    Those were some great suggestions by kettlebell.

    In addition, I would add blood donation *every two months* as long as one is eligible. However, with a diagnosis of hemochromatosis, one can get a prescription for even more frequent donations. Besides menstruation and inducing bleeding ulcers with aspirin, or taking phytate (IP6) in a supplemental fashion (and perhaps oxalic acid), there are no other known ways to lower body stores of iron.

    If you are really interested in this topic, I would highly recommend the book by E. D. Weinberg, Exposing the Hidden Dangers of Iron: What Every Medical Professional Should Know About the Impact of Iron on the Disease Process.

    http://www.amazon.com/Exposing-Hidden-D ... 1581823363

    Also, there is a lot of information in the Iron Disorders Institute website:

    http://www.irondisorders.org/

    One of the most helpful pages on that site is the one for medical professionals on interpreting iron tests:

    http://www.irondisorders.org/tests-to-d ... on-levels/

    Amy
     
  18. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Amy, so causing bleeding with aspirin isn't really that bad and actually probably quite good? If you do cause an ulcer, it will most likely heal up after you stop aspirin?
     
  19. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    Charlie, please.
    Don't. Go. There. :shock:
     
  20. WilltoBelieve

    WilltoBelieve Member

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    Eur J Clin Nutr. 2008 Mar;62(3):336-41. Epub 2007 Apr 18.
    Oxalic acid does not influence nonhaem iron absorption in humans: a comparison of kale and spinach meals.

    METHODS:

    Iron absorption was measured based on erythrocyte incorporation of (57)Fe or (58)Fe 14 days after the administration of labelled meals. In study I, test meals consisted of two wheat bread rolls (100 g) and either 150 g spinach with a native OA content of 1.27 g (reference meal) or 150 g kale with a native OA content of 0.01 g. In study II, 150 g kale given with a potassium oxalate drink to obtain a total OA content of 1.27 g was compared to the spinach meal.
    RESULTS:

    After normalization for the spinach reference meal absorption, geometric mean iron absorption from wheat bread rolls with kale (10.7%) did not differ significantly from wheat rolls with kale plus 1.26 g OA added as potassium oxalate (11.5%, P=0.86). Spinach was significantly higher in calcium and polyphenols than kale and absorption from the spinach meal was 24% lower compared to the kale meal without added OA, but the difference did not reach statistical significance (P>0.16).
    CONCLUSION:

    Potassium oxalate did not influence iron absorption in humans from a kale meal and our findings strongly suggest that OA in fruits and vegetables is of minor relevance in iron nutrition.

    PMID:
    17440529

    =======
    INTERESTING THAT HERE THEY ATTRIBUTE THE ISSUE TO OXALATE AND NOT POLYPHENOLS:
    =====
    Fractional magnesium absorption is significantly lower in human subjects from a meal served with an oxalate-rich vegetable, spinach, as compared with a meal served with kale, a vegetable with a low oxalate content.
    Bohn T, Davidsson L, Walczyk T, Hurrell RF.
    Source

    Laboratory for Human Nutrition, Institute of Food Science and Nutrition, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich, Switzerland.
    Abstract

    The aim of the present study was to evaluate Mg absorption from a test meal served with an oxalate-rich vegetable, spinach, as compared with a test meal served with a vegetable with a low oxalate content, kale. Mg absorption was measured by a stable-isotope technique based on extrinsic labelling of the test meals and faecal monitoring of the excreted isotope labels. Nine healthy adults participated in the study. The test meals were based on 100 g phytate-free white bread, served with 300 g spinach (6.6 mmol oxalate; 0.7 mmol (25)Mg label added, 5.0 mmol total Mg) or 300 g kale (0.1 mmol oxalate; 1.2 mmol (26)Mg label added, 4.8 mmol total Mg). The test meals were served on days 1 and 3, at breakfast and lunch, using a cross-over design. The results from the present study demonstrated that apparent Mg absorption was significantly lower from the meal served with spinach (26.7 (sd 10.4) %) than the meal served with kale (36.5 (sd 11.8) %) (P=0.01). However, the lower fractional apparent Mg absorption from the test meal served with spinach can be assumed to be, at least partly, counterbalanced by the higher native Mg content of spinach as compared with kale. Although based on indirect evidence, i.e. not based on an evaluation of added (or removed) oxalic acid, the difference in Mg absorption observed in the present study is attributed to the difference in oxalic acid content between the two vegetables.

    =========

    Inhibition of iron absorption by polyphenols as an anti-cancer mechanism

    1. L. Mascitelli1 and
    2. M.R. Goldstein2


    1.
    QJM (2011) 104 (5): 459-461. doi: 10.1093/qjmed/hcq239 First published online: December 15, 2010

    The phenolic compounds are released from food or beverages during digestion, and can combine with iron in the intestinal lumen making it unavailable for absorption. The polyphenols are such powerful inhibitors of non-haem iron that substantial changes in the amount of iron absorbed are more likely to occur if the timing of consumption is altered, rather than the quantity.2 For example, a serving of yod kratin (leaves of the lead tree, Leucaena glauca, a vegetable with a high content of polyphenols and widely consumed in Thailand) reduced iron absorption from a composite meal of rice, fish and vegetables by almost 90%.4 Among elderly participants in the Framingham Heart Study, each cup of coffee (236 ml) consumed in a week was associated with 1% lower serum ferritin, a good measurement of body iron stores.5

    Interestingly, all major types of food polyphenols can strongly inhibit dietary non-haem iron absorption, and a dose-dependent inhibitory effect of polyphenol compounds on iron absorption has been demonstrated. In particular, it has been reported that any beverage providing 20–50 mg total polyphenols reduce iron absorption from a bread meal by 50–70%, whereas beverages containing 100–400 mg total polyphenols reduce iron absorption by 60–90%.6 It was noticed that a single serving of instant coffee contains 120 mg of polyphenols.6 Because this study used a simple bread meal, extrapolation of the results to more complex meals might be difficult. However, it should be noted that sufficiently prolonged use of polyphenol compounds has been found to cause iron depletion or iron deficiency in populations with marginal iron stores.7,8 Furthermore, the consumption of polyphenol-containing beverages has been suggested as a useful strategy to reduce iron absorption in patients with iron overload disorders.9,10

    The effect of regular tea-drinking during meals on accumulation of storage iron was evaluated in patients with genetic haemochromatosis,10 and the inhibitory effect of black tea on intestinal iron absorption was confirmed. Body iron stores were evaluated quantitatively by exhaustive phlebotomy, the assessment of body iron status being haemoglobin, saturation of serum iron binding capacity and serum ferritin. A significant reduction in iron absorption was observed when the test meal was accompanied by drinks of tea instead of water. In the tea-drinking group, the increase in storage iron was reduced by about one-third compared with that of the control group.
     
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