If You Don't Eat Meat, Liver Or Organ Meats What Can You Be Missing?

[cyclops]

Sure I agree with the oysters... And yes just my opinion, however I'd be willing to bet it would go for the majority

May be the majority in certain areas or populations and the minority in others. Could also be the quality and freshness of the liver many people have access to. Maybe its a food to only eat when you crave it and then it would taste good to you because your craving it.

 

[Ritchie]

May be the majority in certain areas or populations and the minority in others. Could also be the quality and freshness of the liver many people have access to. Maybe its a food to only eat when you crave it and then it would taste good to you because your craving it.

Some people love liver with just a little salt.

Maybe, but I was simply addressing a point that tara made, quoted below. And about the intuitive feel of most foods.. Don't think this much effort or attempts at palatability falls under that.. Personally I don't know anyone that loves eating liver with just some salt, but you may be living in a different area or population to me

I figure that trying repeatedly to find tasty ways to eat it, using several different recipes, and not over doing it, comes before rejecting it. Eg trying a different liver recipe once a week or once a fortnight or once a month at least 10 times. Because that's how long it can take to acquire a taste for a new food.

 

[Ritchie]

I've heard him say he eats muscle meat sometimes. Though I forget where. I think getting enough protein is more important than avoiding iron. And not everyone has high iron levels. Also good nutrition (especially good vitamin A status) makes iron more safe. In one study giving teens vitamin A and iron induced puberty and growth almost as well as testosterone. But bottom line I think it is more important to get enough nutrients and macros in the diet than to avoid unhealthy things (though you should of course try your best).
If people do decide to eat muscle meats always eat grass fed, grain fed meat is very unhealthy. Grass fed milk is great as well.

Iron isn't the only reason Peat advises against the consumption of muscle meat, although it is a pretty significant one if you are eating it consistently due to it being accumulative. He also writes and speaks extensively of the dangers of high tryptophan consumption, among other poor amino acid ratios that contribute significantly to the negative health impacts of eating muscle meats.

 

[Constatine]

Iron isn't the only reason Peat advises against the consumption of muscle meat, although it is a pretty significant one if you are eating it consistently due to it being accumulative. He also writes and speaks extensively of the dangers of high tryptophan consumption, among other poor amino acid ratios that contribute significantly to the negative health impacts of eating muscle meats.

I think collagen at least partially negates a poor amino acid profile.

 

[marcar72]

...poor amino acid profile.

Milk has even poorer BCAA/tryptophan profile and a lot more phosphorus than meat does per gram of protein. Gelatin has been known to have too much endotoxin. If I consume too much in a certain time frame it gives me flu like symptoms.
I feel I've found a good balance between all three with some pork rinds to boot!

Ohhh, forgot about the 4 daily eggs w/ cheese. Those are pretty awesome as well.

 

[mt_dreams]

@marcar72
i believe ray has said that the tryptophan in liquid milk converts to b3, but not in dry milk. not sure which category cheese would fall into.

 

[Ritchie]

i believe ray has said that the tryptophan in liquid milk converts to b3, but not in dry milk.

Never heard that before, have you got a source?

 

[tara]

I agree with this, but there is a vast difference between something like liver, and foods that are simple to cook and taste good regardless of technique, where then technique adds to the flavours and creativeness in a myriad of ways. For example, basic boiling of potatoes with some salt is still going to be delicious. But then you can step this up and prepare potatoes in so many different ways that adds a lot to a dish, and recipes can be mastered and passed down for generations. Fruits, jams etc don't need to much prep to taste good, but extra detail adds to the flavours and creativeness. Leafy greens, garlic, onions, mushrooms, etc all the same. Oysters, raw or slightly cooked.. delicious. Don't need much. The list goes on and on. Taste good if cooked basically with some salt or coconut oil but extra details can add a lot to the flavours, nutrition etc as you mention above. Liver, on the other hand, is in a very different category. It is not a very stomach-able food at the best of times, the smell and look of it raw is enough to make a lot of people dry reach. Simply boiling or grilling it and most people will have a hard time even keeping it down let alone getting it past the chewing stage.. It takes a very specific formula mixed with a lot of other spices/herbs etc and cooked with other ingredients in such a way as to mask out a lot of the actual liver taste to make it even palatable, let alone stomach-able. Intuitively it is a strange "food".

But which foods people like is at least partly a matter of personal taste, right? :) And I think that personal taste may be influenced by earlier environmental and cultural factors, as well as current nutritional needs.
Personally, if the liver is fresh, I can enjoy it just quickly fried and salted. Whereas onions or chard, which I enjoy in dishes with other foods, I never enjoy by themselves (not bad with some freshly cooked liver, though).

Maybe, but I was simply addressing a point that tara made, quoted below. And about the intuitive feel of most foods.. Don't think this much effort or attempts at palatability falls under that.. Personally I don't know anyone that loves eating liver with just some salt, but you may be living in a different area or population to me

Actually, I only know a few other people round here who eat plain liver. I know lots of people who like liver pate, though, and a few who enjoy liver in other dishes. I know quite a few people who pull faces at the mention of liver, because they did not enjoy what was served to them when they were young. The standard dish then was liver (thoroughly fried) and onions with gravy. I wouldn't eat that ow by choice either. I don't know many adults who drink plain milk, or eat plain potatoes with just salt and not with other flavourful foods, etc either. But unlike some people, if I'm hungry, I can find plain butter or coconut oil palatable, and there are other posters here who say no-one would ever do that. (I don't indulge that craving very far, because it doesn't seem to do me good.) The only time I eat plain salted potatoes without other foods is when I'm too sick to stomach anything else.
Possibly we should all be cautious about viewing ourselves as the standard for 'normal', and people who differ from us as 'abnormal'.

Quite possibly one can be trained to dislike liver by only being exposed to old overcooked rubbery stuff, and in contexts where other people talk ill of it, rather than speak as though it's a treat, for instance.
Who knows, maybe if liver cost $500/kg instead of $5, with just a 1 month season, it would be treated as a valuable and coveted commodity, stored carefully, sold fresh, prepared with skill, have beautifully illustrated recipe bools dedicated to it, and attract conspicuous consumption by the rich and famous?

 

[Ritchie]

But which foods people like is at least partly a matter of personal taste, right?

Look I understand where you are coming from, however there are many factors you are not taking into account here. Have you ever killed a lamb, a calf or a bull, guttered it and pulled its liver out? Not sure how much that would appeal to most peoples personal taste?.. the origins of a food, even though we live in a world where we are conveniently distanced from it, are a significant part of that food. Further, I dare say a big reason you eat liver is because you believe it to be highly nutritious for you, if you discovered it wasn't perhaps it wouldn't be so appetising anymore? There are a lot of factors about liver that calls for caution. Peat does discuss these at length, as do many others with lots of scientific research to boot (iron, tryptophan, high levels of vitamin A, quality of the liver and the animal it came from, what it was fed, how it was raised, etc). Not telling you not to eat liver if you desire it and you feel it's doing you good, just saying it's far from being black and white, even from a strict Peat perspective.

I don't know many adults who..eat plain potatoes with just salt and not with other flavourful foods

Potato chips/french fries with some salt are quite possibly one of the most popular foods in the world..?

Possibly we should all be cautious about viewing ourselves as the standard for 'normal', and people who differ from us as 'abnormal'.

Absolutely I agree with this wholeheartedly, however I am not only talking about my own subjective experience, but rather that of pretty much everyone I know and have known, culture, etc. Sure some people love it, most don't and I'd be willing to bet that goes for most of the world over. Of course carefully crafted paté done well can be quite delicious, but that is a case where liver becomes an ingredient of a dish within which its flavour and texture is altered considerably.

 

[cyclops]

Have you ever killed a lamb, a calf or a bull, guttered it and pulled its liver out? Not sure how much that would appeal to most peoples personal taste?

I haven't, but I've heard of old hunting cultures where the liver was the most prized part. When they killed an animal the person who got to eat the raw fresh liver was considered lucky. They knew it was good.

Potato chips/french fries with some salt are quite possibly one of the most popular foods in the world..?

I think she meat meant people usually eat whole salted potatoes as part of a meal.

But, I also think potatoes are a food that makes sense to eat more often as we need a certain amount of carbs each day and potatoes can be a good carb source. Liver is something to be eaten less often when the cravings for certain vitamins and minerals that liver has hits you.

Absolutely I agree with this wholeheartedly, however I am not only talking about my own subjective experience, but rather that of pretty much everyone I know and have known, culture, etc. Sure some people love it, most don't and I'd be willing to bet that goes for most of the world over.

You've asked pretty much everyone you've ever know if they enjoy liver? How many people is that?

Where do you live? Why would you be willing to bet on something about other cultures? I live in the USA. From what I've seen people in other parts of the world seem to like foods I used to think were strange, like liver.

 

[BrianF]

I cant eat liver at this present moment due to being too hypo. I get an awful reaction to it. I think its too much Vitamin A but that doesnt mean in time when I improve thyroid status and metabolism I wont be adding it in. I think if you are metabolically in the right place then definitely try and eat liver.

If you're Irish, which im guess ing you might be from the name (Sherlock Holmes here..:).. Then maybe the iron is messing with you more than the vitamin A. I'm of Irish descent and we have evolved to be over efficient at absorbing tbe stuff. Do you drink Coke or coffee when yoy eat liver, to block the absorbtion?

 

[Ritchie]

You've asked pretty much everyone you've ever know if they enjoy liver? How many people is that?

Where do you live? Why would you be willing to bet on something about other cultures? I live in the USA. From what I've seen people in other parts of the world seem to like foods I used to think were strange, like liver.

Haha I haven't directly asked everyone I know, but it is fairly easy to deduce from ones culture, society, community and peers, wouldn't you say? I live in Australia.. I don't think I've ever been served it at a dinner, I can't think of one restaurant that serves it as a dish apart from in paté form (and I have frequented many restaurants), none of my friends eat it, apart from maybe a select few who pretty much force themselves in the belief that it is good for you.. I've travelled a lot and observed the same thing in many other countries.. Some of the parents of my eastern bloc friends (russian, polish) do tend to eat some in the form of liver wurst (perhaps a recipe developed in times when food was scarce and liver was the cheapest cut).. I mean surely it's logically clear that it isn't a very widely enjoyed food.. How many restaurants in the States do you know that serve liver as a dish on the menu? Lets be real about it, in general those that eat liver tend to do so in the belief that it is nutritionally good for them, and so consume it as a supplement of sorts.

 

[fradon]

if you don't eat meat, liver or organ meats what can you be missing? Other then of course b12, A, k2 D3 what else? little bit of milk ok asking for someone else.

heme iron, zinc, creatine, protein, amino acids for nuerotransmitters in brain and hormones for methylation in adrenals,

 

[cyclops]

How many restaurants in the States do you know that serve liver as a dish on the menu? Lets be real about it, in general those that eat liver tend to do so in the belief that it is nutritionally good for them, and so consume it as a supplement of sorts.

Every diner I go to has liver and onions somewhere on the menu. I also eat at lots of latin and Jamaican restaurants and they always have it. I actually see oxtail soup less often, which I think is a tastier food.

I think allot of people don't even think about liver though because they didn't really eat it growing up ( I didn't). So its not really an option for them.

I think its a food to be eaten rarely and only when craved. Maybe it should taste good to you if you need the vitamins and stuff in it and bad if you don't need it. I don't think its something you can't eat all the time, its got too much going on.

 

[tara]

Not telling you not to eat liver if you desire it and you feel it's doing you good, just saying it's far from being black and white, even from a strict Peat perspective.

Am I one to say anything is black and white? :) Certainly I agree that there can be pros and cons and that it doesn't necessarily suit all contexts - as with everything.

Have you ever killed a lamb, a calf or a bull, guttered it and pulled its liver out?

This is an argument against all meat eat eating, not liver specifically. I was vegetarian for a few years, on the basis that if I could be healthy without killing animals that would be a good thing. I didn't find a way for it to work for me, and my health improved when I resumed some meat-eating. I seem to be somewhat intolerant to dairy, had digestive difficulty with lots of pulses and grains, and I got sicker during my attempt at vegetarianism. If I could find a way that was workable for me to reduce my meat consumption and improve my health, I'd consider it. I might be keeping the liver (and gristle etc) till last, though.
From an ethical point of view, it seems to me that in my current culture the animals get killed primarily for the muscle meat, and that the offal is by products that are sold off cheap. Having killed the animal, it would be a shame to waste them if they have value.

 

[tara]

Potato chips/french fries with some salt are quite possibly one of the most popular foods in the world..?

True, and delicious. :) That is, potatoes with lots of fat and salt.
Mashed potatoes with milk and butter and salt are good too.
But how many eat boiled or baked spuds by themselves or with salt, and it's not with another more flavourful dish?

 

[tara]

Of course carefully crafted paté done well can be quite delicious, but that is a case where liver becomes an ingredient of a dish within which its flavour and texture is altered considerably.

Yes, and that kind of illustrates my original point. The liver is the essential ingredient, and the recipe is important.

 

[tara]

How many restaurants in the States do you know that serve liver as a dish on the menu? Lets be real about it, in general those that eat liver tend to do so in the belief that it is nutritionally good for them, and so consume it as a supplement of sorts.

Yeah, lots of USers, and other western-influenced cultures, favour refined foods like muscle meats.

 

[Ritchie]

True, and delicious. :) That is, potatoes with lots of fat and salt.
Mashed potatoes with milk and butter and salt are good too.
But how many eat boiled or baked spuds by themselves or with salt, and it's not with another more flavourful dish?

Wasn't the comparison simple fried liver with salt? Anyway doesn't matter, we can agree to disagree. You must really like the taste of liver, and I guess there are others like you. Although I don't think it wise of you advising those who are repulsed by the flavour etc to keep repeatedly forcing themselves to have it, and in so doing trying a myriad of different recipes in an attempt to make it stomach-able/palatable, seems strange and potentially harmful.

 

[cyclops]

Wasn't the comparison simple fried liver with salt? Anyway doesn't matter, we can agree to disagree. You must really like the taste of liver, and I guess there are others like you. Although I don't think it wise of you advising those who are repulsed by the flavour etc to keep repeatedly forcing themselves to have it, and in so doing trying a myriad of different recipes in an attempt to make it stomach-able/palatable, seems strange and potentially harmful.

This sounds reasonable to me. If someone has tried eating high-quality, fresh liver a few times, and they never want to eat it, they probably shouldn't eat it. Maybe they'll want it in the future.