How can refined white sugar not be awful?

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Thalgo

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May 28, 2022
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There's a lot here so I'm jumping back in beyond the gaba stimulants question.

So this happened after covid or before?

It's actually really hard to absorb magnesium unless your other minerals are in balance.

Have you checked her copper levels? Done an HTMA test?

The amount of supplements she's on, in all honesty, might be a huge factor in how unwell she is because it's REALLY easy to throw our system out of balance with this kind of approach.

In all honesty, and not to be harsh, but the fact that you came here with the belief that sugar is bad tells me you need to lean how the human body genuinely works (metabolism etc) before you begin attempting to solve all diseases/disorders she's potentially facing.


Again, I think this is actually a possibility of what's at least partially wrong.

High dose vitamin D can really throw a lot of systems out of balance, remember it's a hormone not a "vitamin".

Have you done a stool test to see what's happening in her gut?

Could be die off.

Unless she actually got sick then those things likely gave her a stronger immune system.

Have you checked her liver function? I'm honestly a little worried with how many things she's been taking if you go any harder there could be real damage done.

That's psychosomatic.

You know human beings need sunlight to survive right?

Without it we become horrendously depressed, we use it for ATP. That mean sunshine= mitochondrial energy.

Doing any physical work to support her vegas nerve?

Could be her nervous system needs a lot of toning, could also be when she zones out, she's not paying attention to whatever thoughts might be generating the symptoms.

It's all nerve related rather it's self created or an imbalance.

At this point I'd guess it's both & is a vicious cycle.

Her serotonin levels are probably sky high with very little dopamine.

No one wants to even leave a bedroom when they feel like that, she sounds like she's more than likely agoraphobic to some degree.

I would look around the form here to find better options for blood test and mineral status tests.

Most of what the doctor's order are useless and you will want to order your own testing.

That is literally her body screaming for glucose.

The irony of not eating sugar but being willing to eat bread is strong here.

What happened after she sprained her ankle?

Like what medications are supplements did she begin to take?


I'd buy a nice grounding mat, make her look at the sun morning/night.

Cut out as many supplements as possible.

Look into protracted withdrawal symptom for benzodiazepine type medications and then look into amanita mushroom if she's needing to get off of those.

I'd look into some real mental health help not to say that she's not experiencing this, but you have to wonder how much of this you are enabling?

Again, I would get an HTMA test and genuinely look at what is going on inside of her body before you throw anything else at her supplement wise.

I'm guessing she's also probably horrendously depleted in all vitamin B's, including B1.

Just to say it sounds like you love her very much and you attempting to help her is a very kind thing, just remember, it does eventually become a hindrance if it's blocking her from facing things that she may need to sort out emotionally for the sake of recovering.

It's really easy to overlook the emotional/mental health aspect of illness.
I appreciate you taking interest in the situation, I'll try to adress the points you raised:

To give a general timeline:


She has had toe cramps ever since she can remember, but the flare ups were sporadic, like once or twice a month. When they happened she used to walk around until they stopped. Doctors prescribed her magnesium and she took deflazacort for the spine pain.


She fell in March/2018, at first the foot would become really hot and she need to do ice to get relief. She was prescribed paracetamol with a muscle relaxant, which she took 3g a day. Then it begun to get cold and cramping. So she used a electric blanket to reduce the spasms.


In time, they symptoms spread to the other foot and to the legs. This is characteristic of complex regional pain syndrome. Hence the diagnosis.


During this time we were mostly vegetarian to see if it would help her autoimmune condition.


She begun gabapentin in April/2019, the baclofen was started by her Doctor when the cramping progressed -- possible in November 2019(?). We went to Italy, so she could be seen at the European Hospital in Rome in May/2019.


She got became fully bedridden until December 2019.


Then she decided to try and walk as little as she could each day and by the time covid hit and we went into confinement here in Portugal, she was able to walk about 3000 steps per day. Her father gave a smart watch so she could gauge her progress and remain motivated.


Curiously, during this time we had no particular diet, as vegetarianism had failed us greatly. She ate a lot of Macdonalds too.


During this whole time, any sort of greater stress would put her into "cramping mode", so we got her a psychologist and she begun to learn about TMS (Dr. Sarno work).


This was the peak of the best she ever was since April 2019 until now.


In the winter of 2020 (about October 2020) she became increasingly worse again -- all her family on the father side have ankylosing spondilitys, and they get worse with weather changes -- so she resorted to deflazacort (a corticosteroid).


She spent a really bad time: mostly bedridden during the days, with the exception of her short morning walk, which she did until the cramping begun, then she would come home screaming every time she had to put whatever foot was cramping on the floor.


When Summer 2021 came she become gradually got better again. When she got tonsillitis she was prescribed an antibiotic called amoxicillin, She had to do 2 rounds.


This was when her health took a massive dive and she had to use the wheelchair for anything beyond a short walk.


This was what prompted me to research more. That's when I leaned about Lyme and how antibiotics make things worse (herxheimer) and it would also explain why deflazacort (shutting down the immune system) would be related to her getting worse in the winter.


She hasn't done any other drugs, besides the pill because the cramps get much worse during her period without it.


If my memory serves me right, we begun heavy supplementation around the beggining of 2022, with something called the Cowden Protocol, she begun getting a little better but after getting covid, she spiked a high fever, had massive headaches, and it was from that moment on that her health took a really big turn for the worse.


After Covid she begun to spasm and cramp for no reason, every little kind of stimulation would get her cramping.


That's roughly the timeline.

Now I'll try to adress the questions:

-- Have you checked her copper levels? Done an HTMA test?

No. When she tried copper the cramps flared up a lot.

- The amount of supplements she's on, in all honesty, might be a huge factor in how unwell she is because it's REALLY easy to throw our system out of balance with this kind of approach.

Yes, I recognize that.

- In all honesty, and not to be harsh, but the fact that you came here with the belief that sugar is bad tells me you need to lean how the human body genuinely works (metabolism etc) before you begin attempting to solve all diseases/disorders she's potentially facing.

Well, what I don't know yet could fill most of the libraries of the world. But I'm more worried about what I think I know that is actually wrong.

-- Have you done a stool test to see what's happening in her gut?

What kind of test would that be? I don't thing such tests are available here.

-- Unless she actually got sick then those things likely gave her a stronger immune system.

From what I've read, once infected, getting your immunity low - or taking cortisone - could percepitate symptoms.

As it seems, these bacteria love to indulge in collagen and they tend to migrate to areas of injury and stimulate our white blood cells to keep producing inflammatory cytokines in order to keep the eating frenzy ongoing.

-- Have you checked her liver function? I'm honestly a little worried with how many things she's been taking if you go any harder there could be real damage done.

Only with the basic enzyme tests, but the last test was before the pandemic I believe.

-- You know human beings need sunlight to survive right?

Yes.

-- Doing any physical work to support her vegas nerve?

She tries to move her arms, and sometimes lifts 1 kg weights.

-- Her serotonin levels are probably sky high with very little dopamine.

How could we address that?

-- That is literally her body screaming for glucose. The irony of not eating sugar but being willing to eat bread is strong here.

Now that you mentioned it... ._.

-- What happened after she sprained her ankle? Like what medications are supplements did she begin to take?

See timeline above.

-- I'd buy a nice grounding mat, make her look at the sun morning/night.

We have a grounding kit, which she did use for a time. Probably in 2019, when we also used a PEMF machine.

-- Cut out as many supplements as possible.

She's currently taking glycine, TMG, Glyteine (a glutamine-cysteine compound) that promotes glutathione production, magnesium malate, B-Right (Jarrow Formulas), Glutathione, Melatonin, Vitamin D, Boron. Sometimes Iodine, adrenal cortex, vitamin K2, probably a couple more.

-- Look into protracted withdrawal symptom for benzodiazepine type medications and then look into amanita mushroom if she's needing to get off of those.

I don't think she has ever taken benzodiazepines. But will look into it.

-- I'd look into some real mental health help not to say that she's not experiencing this, but you have to wonder how much of this you are enabling?

She used to be followed by a regular psychologist in person and a pain psychologist over skype (at the time). It was helpful also she has a really supportive family and friend structure. She also used a notebook only she was allowed to read for journaling her thoughts, as part of therapy. It helped a lot in keeping her head above water while dealing with suddenly becoming disable, as she was very active.

-- it does eventually become a hindrance if it's blocking her from facing things that she may need to sort out emotionally for the sake of recovering. It's really easy to overlook the emotional/mental health aspect of illness.

I agree. We've focused on that as part of our approach. She's also very strong emotionally and psychologically.

Perhaps I've painted a picture in your mind of a young woman hiding in the darkness of her bedroom not wanting to see anyone, lest her feet not spasm. While everyone around tries to walk on eggshells so as to enable her fear of cramps. When I wrote "at the moment" it has been literally this week that this agoraphobic behaviour emerged.

People with CRPS with her specific type of foot issues have limb amputation as part of the medical approach when opioid therapy fails. It's really that bad. That's why I stopped following the CRPS community and begun looking elsewhere. It got me all the way to Ray Peat, the crazy guy that thinks evil sugar is a staple.

I do believe we are dealing with a vicious infectious agent(s).

Obviously everything that can be done to support metabolism will help. From what I have read elsewhere pathogens can only survive in a low metabolic environment / so called "acid" or "low oxygen".

So increasing metabolism can only help. I guess there's no shortcut beside reading Ray Peat articles, right?
 

Perry Staltic

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
8,186
When Summer 2021 came she become gradually got better again. When she got tonsillitis she was prescribed an antibiotic called amoxicillin, She had to do 2 rounds.


This was when her health took a massive dive and she had to use the wheelchair for anything beyond a short walk.

Perhaps her gut microbiome got screwed up with the antibiotic. Has she tried warm foot baths with epsom salts?
 

I'm.No.One

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Joined
Dec 4, 2021
Messages
747
Location
Oregon
I appreciate you taking interest in the situation, I'll try to adress the points you raised:

To give a general timeline:


She has had toe cramps ever since she can remember, but the flare ups were sporadic, like once or twice a month. When they happened she used to walk around until they stopped. Doctors prescribed her magnesium and she took deflazacort for the spine pain.
Our bodies need a fair amount of calcium/vitamin D to convert magnesium well it would probably be worth some research in regards of how to best use magnesium.
She fell in March/2018, at first the foot would become really hot and she need to do ice to get relief. She was prescribed paracetamol with a muscle relaxant, which she took 3g a day. Then it begun to get cold and cramping. So she used a electric blanket to reduce the spasms.
Have you looked into what vitamins/minerals this medicine might potentially deplete?
In time, they symptoms spread to the other foot and to the legs. This is characteristic of complex regional pain syndrome. Hence the diagnosis.


During this time we were mostly vegetarian to see if it would help her autoimmune condition.
So, any deficiency she may have had was likely made worse here.
She begun gabapentin in April/2019, the baclofen was started by her Doctor when the cramping progressed -- possible in November 2019(?). We went to Italy, so she could be seen at the European Hospital in Rome in May/2019.
While not a benzo it basically does the same thing in regards to flooding the brain 24/7 with gaba acid. Believe me when I say that no good ever comes of this long term & the symptoms of protracted withdrawal are not only brutal, varied, & can last an extremely long time.
She got became fully bedridden until December 2019.


Then she decided to try and walk as little as she could each day and by the time covid hit and we went into confinement here in Portugal, she was able to walk about 3000 steps per day. Her father gave a smart watch so she could gauge her progress and remain motivated.


Curiously, during this time we had no particular diet, as vegetarianism had failed us greatly. She ate a lot of Macdonalds too.


During this whole time, any sort of greater stress would put her into "cramping mode", so we got her a psychologist and she begun to learn about TMS (Dr. Sarno work).
Her nervous system is... probably incredibly dysregulated so while it can be psychological it's all connected.

Have you done a spit based cortisol test to see her levels throughout the day?

This was the peak of the best she ever was since April 2019 until now.


In the winter of 2020 (about October 2020) she became increasingly worse again -- all her family on the father side have ankylosing spondilitys, and they get worse with weather changes -- so she resorted to deflazacort (a corticosteroid).


She spent a really bad time: mostly bedridden during the days, with the exception of her short morning walk, which she did until the cramping begun, then she would come home screaming every time she had to put whatever foot was cramping on the floor.


When Summer 2021 came she become gradually got better again. When she got tonsillitis she was prescribed an antibiotic called amoxicillin, She had to do 2 rounds.


This was when her health took a massive dive and she had to use the wheelchair for anything beyond a short walk.


This was what prompted me to research more. That's when I leaned about Lyme and how antibiotics make things worse (herxheimer) and it would also explain why deflazacort (shutting down the immune system) would be related to her getting worse in the winter.
Seems related especially since amoxicillin is such a gentle antibiotic.
She hasn't done any other drugs, besides the pill because the cramps get much worse during her period without it.
So she's in synthetic hormones.

This is likely a huge contribution, she's probably extremely estrogen dominant.

Please look into how horrendously damaging this is for women.

Also, she no longer has a period she has a hormonal forced bleed.
If my memory serves me right, we begun heavy supplementation around the beggining of 2022, with something called the Cowden Protocol, she begun getting a little better but after getting covid, she spiked a high fever, had massive headaches, and it was from that moment on that her health took a really big turn for the worse.
Supplements can be really metabolically taxing, they likey brought her mineral status even lower.

Consider learning about the root cause protocol just in regards of building her mineral status back up.
After Covid she begun to spasm and cramp for no reason, every little kind of stimulation would get her cramping.


That's roughly the timeline.

Now I'll try to adress the questions:

-- Have you checked her copper levels? Done an HTMA test?

No. When she tried copper the cramps flared up a lot.
Copper needs co-factors to be used by the body & from food sources is best.
- The amount of supplements she's on, in all honesty, might be a huge factor in how unwell she is because it's REALLY easy to throw our system out of balance with this kind of approach.

Yes, I recognize that.

- In all honesty, and not to be harsh, but the fact that you came here with the belief that sugar is bad tells me you need to lean how the human body genuinely works (metabolism etc) before you begin attempting to solve all diseases/disorders she's potentially facing.

Well, what I don't know yet could fill most of the libraries of the world. But I'm more worried about what I think I know that is actually wrong.
I hear you, I guess I just meant go to the beginning in regards to learning how the human metabolism works that way when you go forward into research you'll better be able to a.) understand what you're reading b.)be able to spot if false information.
-- Have you done a stool test to see what's happening in her gut?

What kind of test would that be? I don't thing such tests are available here.
Something like this:

Shop around though as that's just one I found that's in the EU, could be cheaper ones.
-- Unless she actually got sick then those things likely gave her a stronger immune system.

From what I've read, once infected, getting your immunity low - or taking cortisone - could percepitate symptoms.
Yeah many pathogens are like that but typically after an infection took hold. Like having EBV for example, people typically need to have contracted mono first.
As it seems, these bacteria love to indulge in collagen and they tend to migrate to areas of injury and stimulate our white blood cells to keep producing inflammatory cytokines in order to keep the eating frenzy ongoing.

-- Have you checked her liver function? I'm honestly a little worried with how many things she's been taking if you go any harder there could be real damage done.

Only with the basic enzyme tests, but the last test was before the pandemic I believe.

-- You know human beings need sunlight to survive right?

Yes.
I brought this up because sunlight can be an amazing tool for healing, you'll not be able to find a special combination of anything that will get around this.

This is a nice podcast to listen to in regards of how light can help us.


-- Doing any physical work to support her vegas nerve?

She tries to move her arms, and sometimes lifts 1 kg weights.
That's not really doing anything for the vagus nerve, here check this book out:
Amazon product ASIN 1623170249View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1623170249/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_HE83W6G3ZDV97YJ5SHXS?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


-- Her serotonin levels are probably sky high with very little dopamine.

How could we address that?
For sure search the forum, lots of info to take in on this subject.
-- That is literally her body screaming for glucose. The irony of not eating sugar but being willing to eat bread is strong here.

Now that you mentioned it... ._.
Maybe try getting her to eat more we'll ripened fruit alongside a protein. It doesn't have to be full on sugar at first.
-- What happened after she sprained her ankle? Like what medications are supplements did she begin to take?

See timeline above.

-- I'd buy a nice grounding mat, make her look at the sun morning/night.

We have a grounding kit, which she did use for a time. Probably in 2019, when we also used a PEMF machine.
If it's not an actual sheet or mat she lays on I'd get that, so she's grounding constantly as she's in bed to reduce as much inflammation as possible.
-- Cut out as many supplements as possible.

She's currently taking glycine
Start making gummies from gelatin & juice, adding collagen to foods.

Not that we can't use isolated forms but when we eat gelatinous cuts of meat. We are not just getting glycine.

Plus, this will up her protein levels & cut a supplement out.
, TMG, Glyteine (a glutamine-cysteine compound) that promotes glutathione production,

magnesium malate
Maybe try different forms of magnesium, making sure to use it topically as well. There are others more specific to the nervous system with the capacity to cross the blood brain barrier.

Shoot, even magnesium bicarbonate might make a bigger difference here.
, B-Right (Jarrow Formulas)
Speaking of vitamin B's search the forum here about thiamine deficiency & how to properly test for that.
Glutathione,

Melatonin
This is a hormone that our body only produces in minuscule amounts, even the smallest amount in pill form is a mega dose. Actually, the podcast I shared about light goes into this issue with using melatonin. Fun fact, simply watching the sun go down triggers our body to make it naturally.
, Vitamin D , Boron. Sometimes Iodine, adrenal cortex, vitamin K2, probably a couple more.

-- Look into protracted withdrawal symptom for benzodiazepine type medications and then look into amanita mushroom if she's needing to get off of those.

I don't think she has ever taken benzodiazepines. But will look into it.

-- I'd look into some real mental health help not to say that she's not experiencing this, but you have to wonder how much of this you are enabling?

She used to be followed by a regular psychologist in person and a pain psychologist over skype (at the time). It was helpful also she has a really supportive family and friend structure. She also used a notebook only she was allowed to read for journaling her thoughts, as part of therapy. It helped a lot in keeping her head above water while dealing with suddenly becoming disable, as she was very active.

-- it does eventually become a hindrance if it's blocking her from facing things that she may need to sort out emotionally for the sake of recovering. It's really easy to overlook the emotional/mental health aspect of illness.

I agree. We've focused on that as part of our approach. She's also very strong emotionally and psychologically.

Perhaps I've painted a picture in your mind of a young woman hiding in the darkness of her bedroom not wanting to see anyone, lest her feet not spasm. While everyone around tries to walk on eggshells so as to enable her fear of cramps. When I wrote "at the moment" it has been literally this week that this agoraphobic behaviour emerged.
It's hard to convey situations over text sometimes.
People with CRPS with her specific type of foot issues have limb amputation as part of the medical approach when opioid therapy fails. It's really that bad. That's why I stopped following the CRPS community and begun looking elsewhere. It got me all the way to Ray Peat, the crazy guy that thinks evil sugar is a staple.

I do believe we are dealing with a vicious infectious agent(s).
Have you done any research on methylene blue or the the controversial miracle mineral cure in regards of getting rid of infections?

Search the forum for information on methylene blue.

Here's some info on MMS:
Obviously everything that can be done to support metabolism will help. From what I have read elsewhere pathogens can only survive in a low metabolic environment / so called "acid" or "low oxygen".
Dig into all things CO2 here as well.
So increasing metabolism can only help. I guess there's no shortcut beside reading Ray Peat articles, right?
Nope, just slowly beginning reading articles, listening to podcasts/ interviews with him, and use Google to search this form because the search function here sucks.
 
Joined
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I guess there's no shortcut beside reading Ray Peat articles, right?
This is more of a supplement than a shortcut, but Bioenergetic Search can search Peat interviews (and some with just Haidut and Danny) on youtube in case you weren't aware.
The search engine relies on the auto-generated transcripts from YouTube. The speech-to-text is far from perfect, but it's good enough to be useful.
The source material comes from Danny Roddy's YouTube channel, as well as various interviews that Ray has done over the years.
 

S.Holmes

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Messages
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Location
Oklahoma, USA
Every cell in your body requires glucose, cancer is your cells mutated. Stop eating sugar & your cells will begin sourcing glucose from your muscles.

Great way to make cancer spread is to make it seek out glucose from surrounding tissue.

Yeah?

Maybe it's poor gut health, horrible mineral status of your body, chemical ridden tooth paste, poor oral hygiene, chlorinated tap water, not enough calcium/magnesium/vit D?


How are your kidneys doing? Cardiovascular?

You mean your livers not doing great so it's not able to store glucose well?

Can't tell if this is just a post to bait people, I'm killing time so kinda just jumping in.

So, ya set on sugar being the primary driver of obesity & not the rancid industrialized PUFA oils they put in basically everything?

Sure it's the sugar and not the other crap that's typically present with sugar?

Define bad bacteria because that's kinda a blanket statement.

Humans have been doing anything & everything possible to source carbohydrates throughout our entire existence.

They were just out there taking liquids from trees & turning it into refined sugars.

Getting stung by bees for honey.

Growing swaths of sugar cane.

Learned to extract sugar from tons of varying root vegetables.

Simple sugars have been a part of the human diet for a very long time.

Sure, in the way that a body that's saturated with rancid seed oils has a hard time utilizing the glucose it desperately needs to function.

Yeah, but you're seemingly just seeing the words sugar in labels.

You've got the sugar blindness 😂

That's where you can't see the other ingredients that are actually causing the problems.

Welcome. Take it one step at a time.

Eat some sugar, will make it easier for you to take all of this in.



Seriously though everything you've been taught about sugar from mainstream health is pretty much a lie.

Like many can/will tell you here it can take time to repair your metabolism/health etc enough that you can properly utilize sugar.
Well said! For me the best way to calm down stress hormones/anxiety is a little Mexi-Cola.
 

Atman

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Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
393
This thread should get a "Noob - Hasn't read a single book/article by Ray"-tag.

Sugar being the main driver of the obesity epidemic was the most ridiculous point of them all.
Try eating a diet of mainly fruits (you can also add plenty of the evil, refined sugar to it) and see how obese you get.

But I have to admit that you get drowned in the anti-sugar narrative if you consume any mass media, which includes Youtube nowadays, at all.
 

Chad_Catholic

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Algonquin, Illinois
This thread should get a "Noob - Hasn't read a single book/article by Ray"-tag.

Sugar being the main driver of the obesity epidemic was the most ridiculous point of them all.
Try eating a diet of mainly fruits (you can also add plenty of the evil, refined sugar to it) and see how obese you get.

But I have to admit that you get drowned in the anti-sugar narrative if you consume any mass media, which includes Youtube nowadays, at all.
LMAO true
"noobs discover ray peat forum, one year later discover Ray Peat"
 
OP
T

Thalgo

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So far I feel more like "Noob gets ratioed by Ray Peat fans on a Ray Peat forum".

Life would be much easier and pleasent if Ray Peat is right.

I do miss ice cream A LOT. It was like my favorite thing ever for dealing with anxiety. But it exarcebates my arthritic pain like clockwork. Not that I feel significantly better.

So coke is healthy too? 33g of sugar, and all the other additives?
 

I'm.No.One

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Messages
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So far I feel more like "Noob gets ratioed by Ray Peat fans on a Ray Peat forum".
Yeah, I knew as soon as I saw your question you were gana get lobbed into 😂
Life would be much easier and pleasent if Ray Peat is right.

I do miss ice cream A LOT. It was like my favorite thing ever for dealing with anxiety. But it exarcebates my arthritic pain like clockwork. Not that I feel significantly better.
Consider it's not the sugar/milk/cream/egg but the nasty "food grade" antifreeze & various other chemicals.

Find a good clean brand that has nothing in it but food.
So coke is healthy too? 33g of sugar, and all the other additives?
Most people are drinking Mexican coke, far less damaging in comparison to what's sold in America.

Not sure about what's available in Portugal.
 

RealNeat

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HI
Cane sugar is the only safe part about coke.
And the caffeine, distilled water, Co2, small amount of potassium and anti inflammatory oils used in the flavoring...
 
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