Using Vitamin C To Treat Coronavirus - Remember, Vitamin C Can't Be Patented, So The System Will Not

[postman]

Very high doses of vit C can cause kidney damage due to formation of oxalate kristalls. There are quite a lot of publications about it , for example
Ascorbic acid-induced oxalate nephropathy: a case report and discussion of pathologic mechanisms. - PubMed - NCBI
Acute oxalate nephropathy due to high vitamin C doses and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. - PubMed - NCBI
Ascorbic Acid Supplements and Kidney Stone Incidence Among Men: A Prospective Study
Relative hyperoxaluria, crystalluria and haematuria after megadose ingestion of vitamin C. - PubMed - NCBI
Dietary influences on urinary oxalate and risk of kidney stones. - PubMed - NCBI

This won't happen if you just take it during the course of an infection. But it can happen if you megadose it for months on end.

If you keep your gut in good shape, you should be okay

Coronavirus: 81% of cases are mild, study says (not the greatest source I Know)

The biggest problems you will have to worry about are supply disruptions. Buy a couple big bags of rice/oats

"The severity of symptoms variable was categorized as mild, severe, or critical. Mild included non-pneumonia and mild pneumonia cases. Severe was characterized by dyspnea, respiratory frequency ≥30/minute, blood oxygen saturation ≤93%, PaO2/FiO2 ratio <300, and/or lung infiltrates >50% within 24–48 hours. Critical cases were those that exhibited respiratory failure, septic shock, and/or multiple organ dysfunction/failure."

You're misinterpreting that report. 20% of cases being serious is a huge amount. For the normal flu about 1% need to be hospitalized, so this is 20 times worse in that regard. And this is from communist statistics so it's probably even worse in reality.

 

[Tarmander]

You're misinterpreting that report. 20% of cases being serious is a huge amount. For the normal flu about 1% need to be hospitalized, so this is 20 times worse in that regard. And this is from communist statistics so it's probably even worse in reality.

I am not misinterpreting them. 20% is a huge amount on a population wide basis. But individually, most people are going to be fine. Their biggest problems will be from the effects of the virus on society, shipping, etc, not the virus itself.

To put it another way, would you rather get corona or ebola?

 

[Tarmander]

 

[Opioidus]

20% requiring hospitalization and 5% intensive care means a complete collapse of the health care system in a week. In the third world already most of the medical facilities and staff are overwhelmed. In Italy the system is exhausted and Italy is the world's eighth largest economy and in my opinion has a much more inclusive health care system which in these pandemics seem to be an important factor.

This place is infected with pseudoscience and conspiracy theorists who go around denying the germ theory of disease or make outragous claims with zero backing. I'm not concern trolling or pointing at anyone specific in this thread but it's painful reading some of these threads. It's also interesting reading these comments by users that go aroubd giving diet advice elsewhere.

 

[InChristAlone]

Very high doses of vit C can cause kidney damage due to formation of oxalate kristalls. There are quite a lot of publications about it , for example
Ascorbic acid-induced oxalate nephropathy: a case report and discussion of pathologic mechanisms. - PubMed - NCBI
Acute oxalate nephropathy due to high vitamin C doses and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. - PubMed - NCBI
Ascorbic Acid Supplements and Kidney Stone Incidence Among Men: A Prospective Study
Relative hyperoxaluria, crystalluria and haematuria after megadose ingestion of vitamin C. - PubMed - NCBI
Dietary influences on urinary oxalate and risk of kidney stones. - PubMed - NCBI

I love cherry pickers!! These are the most fun.

1. Case report reveals an older man who had part of his small bowel surgically removed which results in increased oxalate absorption and he also had post-renal obstruction due to a prostate problem. "The duration and dose of vitamin C intake that have been associated with oxalate nephropathy vary widely between published reports, and it is likely that underlying disease processes influence the development of acute kidney injury."

2. Again an elderly man with pre-existing conditions of hypertension, complicated by moderate chronic kidney disease and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency which causes fat malabsorption which binds calcium in the gut leaving more oxalate to be absorbed. He had been diagnosed with myalgic encephalomyelitis. He was also on all this: 10mg amlodipine, 800IU cholecalciferol, 100mg ciprofibrate, 2.5mg clonazepam, 15mg hydrocortisone, 500 μg IM hydroxocobalamin two times per week, 330mg levocarnitine, 150 μg levothyroxine, 25mg liothyronine, 12mg loperamide, 500mg mesalazine, 100mg modafinil, 4 capsules pancreatin, 40mg pantoprazole, 40mg simvastatin and a testosterone gel. They claim 1-2 grams of vitamin C a day but were unable to confirm was the cause of the hyperoxaluria as the patient refused to stay on dialysis and died.

3. They were unable to confirm how much vitamin C was taken.

4. The calcium oxalate excreted by the subject was not high and his crystals were probably formed by low citraturia or by abnormally low concentrations of crystalization inhibitors. But the passage of the crystals caused some damage and the study stopped after just several days. They conclude he was a rare subject. (it is likely he was passing crystals that were already there, thanks vitamin C for helping out!)

5. "Three epidemiological studies have reported no association of supplemental ascorbate use or serum ascorbate levels with increased risk of kidney stones in the population as a whole."

For every study you find saying vitamin C causes kidney stones you can find another that says it doesn't.
Here is a large study which concluded: "These data do not support an association between a high daily intake of vitamin C or vitamin B6 and the risk of stone formation, even when consumed in large doses."

And a study in women that concluded: "Vitamin C intake was not associated with risk. The multivariate relative risk for women in the highest category of vitamin C intake (> or =1500 mg/d) compared with the lowest category (<250 mg/d) was 1.06 (95% confidence interval, 0.69 to 1.64). Large doses of vitamin B6 may reduce the risk of kidney stone formation in women. Routine restriction of vitamin C to prevent stone formation appears unwarranted."

The concern is unwarranted. Basically don't dehydrate yourself while also using ascorbic acid. At most 1% could turn into oxalate. Furthermore doctors have reported no kidney problems with very high doses of ascorbic acid. Dr. Robert Cathcart says out of 25,000 patients he put on high doses he had never seen kidney stones. Only two showed kidney stones after decreasing dose to only 500 mg, after increasing it back up high again and adding mag and B6 the stones disappeared. Ascorbate increases urinary flow and thus crystals will not form. A squeeze of lemon with your vitamin C if you are stone former is prescribed by doctors to prevent stones. If you have very low kidney filtration then use caution.

 

[Summer]

Does it need to be ascorbic acid or will other forms do the same thing?

 

[postman]

Does it need to be ascorbic acid or will other forms do the same thing?

Ascorbate salts are fine, in fact I think what they usually use for IVs is sodium ascorbate.

 

[Summer]

Ascorbate salts are fine, in fact I think what they usually use for IVs is sodium ascorbate.

Cool. Thanks! I remember reading that Ray isn’t a fan of ascorbic acid due to impurities in its production.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

I love cherry pickers!! These are the most fun.

1. Case report reveals an older man who had part of his small bowel surgically removed which results in increased oxalate absorption and he also had post-renal obstruction due to a prostate problem. "The duration and dose of vitamin C intake that have been associated with oxalate nephropathy vary widely between published reports, and it is likely that underlying disease processes influence the development of acute kidney injury."

2. Again an elderly man with pre-existing conditions of hypertension, complicated by moderate chronic kidney disease and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency which causes fat malabsorption which binds calcium in the gut leaving more oxalate to be absorbed. He had been diagnosed with myalgic encephalomyelitis. He was also on all this: 10mg amlodipine, 800IU cholecalciferol, 100mg ciprofibrate, 2.5mg clonazepam, 15mg hydrocortisone, 500 μg IM hydroxocobalamin two times per week, 330mg levocarnitine, 150 μg levothyroxine, 25mg liothyronine, 12mg loperamide, 500mg mesalazine, 100mg modafinil, 4 capsules pancreatin, 40mg pantoprazole, 40mg simvastatin and a testosterone gel. They claim 1-2 grams of vitamin C a day but were unable to confirm was the cause of the hyperoxaluria as the patient refused to stay on dialysis and died.

3. They were unable to confirm how much vitamin C was taken.

4. The calcium oxalate excreted by the subject was not high and his crystals were probably formed by low citraturia or by abnormally low concentrations of crystalization inhibitors. But the passage of the crystals caused some damage and the study stopped after just several days. They conclude he was a rare subject. (it is likely he was passing crystals that were already there, thanks vitamin C for helping out!)

5. "Three epidemiological studies have reported no association of supplemental ascorbate use or serum ascorbate levels with increased risk of kidney stones in the population as a whole."

For every study you find saying vitamin C causes kidney stones you can find another that says it doesn't.
Here is a large study which concluded: "These data do not support an association between a high daily intake of vitamin C or vitamin B6 and the risk of stone formation, even when consumed in large doses."

And a study in women that concluded: "Vitamin C intake was not associated with risk. The multivariate relative risk for women in the highest category of vitamin C intake (> or =1500 mg/d) compared with the lowest category (<250 mg/d) was 1.06 (95% confidence interval, 0.69 to 1.64). Large doses of vitamin B6 may reduce the risk of kidney stone formation in women. Routine restriction of vitamin C to prevent stone formation appears unwarranted."

The concern is unwarranted. Basically don't dehydrate yourself while also using ascorbic acid. At most 1% could turn into oxalate. Furthermore doctors have reported no kidney problems with very high doses of ascorbic acid. Dr. Robert Cathcart says out of 25,000 patients he put on high doses he had never seen kidney stones. Only two showed kidney stones after decreasing dose to only 500 mg, after increasing it back up high again and adding mag and B6 the stones disappeared. Ascorbate increases urinary flow and thus crystals will not form. A squeeze of lemon with your vitamin C if you are stone former is prescribed by doctors to prevent stones. If you have very low kidney filtration then use caution.

Excellent post.

 

[shine]

Vitamin C Infusion for the Treatment of Severe 2019-nCoV Infected Pneumonia - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

 

[tara]

Cool. Thanks! I remember reading that Ray isn’t a fan of ascorbic acid due to impurities in its production.

Are the sodium/calcium/magnesium ascorbates not made from ascorbic acid, with similar risk of impurities?

 

[ddjd]

has anyone looked into using the special form of vitamin c with methylene blue which @haidut talked about a few months ago. would this be even more effective against Corona?

 

[ddjd]

Very high doses of vit C can cause kidney damage due to formation of oxalate kristalls. There are quite a lot of publications about it , for example
Ascorbic acid-induced oxalate nephropathy: a case report and discussion of pathologic mechanisms. - PubMed - NCBI
Acute oxalate nephropathy due to high vitamin C doses and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. - PubMed - NCBI
Ascorbic Acid Supplements and Kidney Stone Incidence Among Men: A Prospective Study
Relative hyperoxaluria, crystalluria and haematuria after megadose ingestion of vitamin C. - PubMed - NCBI
Dietary influences on urinary oxalate and risk of kidney stones. - PubMed - NCBI

any way to prevent this or reverse damage already done? maybe taurine or k2mk4?

 

[InChristAlone]

any way to prevent this or reverse damage already done? maybe taurine or k2mk4?

Did you not see my breakdown of that post a few comments above^^^^?
"The concern is unwarranted. Basically don't dehydrate yourself while also using ascorbic acid. At most 1% could turn into oxalate. Furthermore doctors have reported no kidney problems with very high doses of ascorbic acid. Dr. Robert Cathcart says out of 25,000 patients he put on high doses he had never seen kidney stones. Only two showed kidney stones after decreasing dose to only 500 mg, after increasing it back up high again and adding mag and B6 the stones disappeared. Ascorbate increases urinary flow and thus crystals will not form. A squeeze of lemon with your vitamin C if you are stone former is prescribed by doctors to prevent stones. If you have very low kidney filtration then use caution."

 

[JohnHafterson]

Did you not see my breakdown of that post a few comments above^^^^?
"The concern is unwarranted. Basically don't dehydrate yourself while also using ascorbic acid. At most 1% could turn into oxalate. Furthermore doctors have reported no kidney problems with very high doses of ascorbic acid. Dr. Robert Cathcart says out of 25,000 patients he put on high doses he had never seen kidney stones. Only two showed kidney stones after decreasing dose to only 500 mg, after increasing it back up high again and adding mag and B6 the stones disappeared. Ascorbate increases urinary flow and thus crystals will not form. A squeeze of lemon with your vitamin C if you are stone former is prescribed by doctors to prevent stones. If you have very low kidney filtration then use caution."

Agreed, worrying about oxalates seems ridiculous when confronting a serious case of Covid 19.

Ascorbic Acid also happens to limit binding of Angiotensin to Angiotensin 2 AT1 recpetor through competitive inhibition.

Ray Peat mentioned Vitamin D and ARBs ( Losartan ) as effective against Corona virus as they both dampen down the AT1 receptor which mediates a lot of the inflammatory damage from this virus.

Here's a nice article with images of downstream effects of an active Angiotensin 2 AT1 receptor as well as blocked or limited AT1 recpetor.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Effects-of-angiotensin-II-on-the-AT1-receptor_fig1_51240090

Anything Ray recommends or other people are trying out are either limiting AT1 binding or limit the effects after binding is already in place.

Seems like many of the Covid 19 damage are in line with AT1.

Though this may be a little reductionist.

 

[Gone Peating]

What’s the purest form of vit c available?

 

[BMW1]

COVID-19, ARDS & Cytokine Storms - The Recycling of Ascorbic Acid by Macrophages, Neutrophils and Lymphocytes - EvolutaMente.it

This is Doris Loh's latest post on the virus, how it does its damage, and Vitamin C as a proposed therapeutic agent. Some of her ideas may not be Peat friendly. Her other article from March 14th on Melatonin was also very interesting to me. I realize she speaks positively about ascorbic acid, melatonin, and nitric oxide, but I think it's all contextual. I believe extreme assault on the body may require unusual measures not necessary otherwise.