How can refined white sugar not be awful?

[SaltiestSardine]

Are there any other refined foods besides sugar that peaters think are super healthy?

All butter croissants if you can still find them(couple of the more boutique grocery stores in the UK do)or bake your own.

Masa Harina tortillas

"Healthy" is a loaded term i think, but i find them metabolically advantageous IME

 

[Perry Staltic]

All butter croissants if you can still find them(couple of the more boutique grocery stores in the UK do)or bake your own.

Masa Harina tortillas

"Healthy" is a loaded term i think, but i find them metabolically advantageous IME

So refined flour if prepared with real butter. I would consider Masa Harina tortillas processed, but not refined.

 

[joaquin]

All butter croissants if you can still find them(couple of the more boutique grocery stores in the UK do)or bake your own.

Masa Harina tortillas

"Healthy" is a loaded term i think, but i find them metabolically advantageous IME

Do you make masa harina tortillas? If so, please tell me how to make them. I have tried using instruction off the web but they never turn out right.

 

[SaltiestSardine]

Do you make masa harina tortillas? If so, please tell me how to make them. I have tried using instruction off the web but they never turn out right.

I do sometimes. Tend to alternate

I doubt i could tell you anything that you couldn't already have found out from watching Youtube tutorials etc. Perhaps it's the flour? Not sure, but i buy the PAN stuff as that is apparently what they use in proper Mexican restaurants. I really haven't had much issue and it's mostly my ADD that prevents me from cooking them consistently and buying them premade now and then

 

[tankasnowgod]

Hi guys, thanks for all your replies. No. I’m not trolling.

I dont think that a good argument can be made in favor of sugar if, in order to make use of sugar, you need to be super healthy and not deficient in key nutrients.

Peat in his article suggested that about 8oz of pure sugar added to the regular diet of diabetics improved their condition. I don't think diabetics would qualify as "super healthy."

Haidut posted this study showing that eating a pound a day of sugar can have strikingly positive effects on male fertility. Infertility is a sign of poor health, not robust-

Eating 1 lb of sugar daily has strikingly positive effects on (male) fertility – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

And sugar can lower stress-

Sugar (sucrose) lowers stress-induced cortisol – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

 

[joaquin]

Peat in his article suggested that about 8oz of pure sugar added to the regular diet of diabetics improved their condition. I don't think diabetics would qualify as "super healthy."

Haidut posted this study showing that eating a pound a day of sugar can have strikingly positive effects on male fertility. Infertility is a sign of poor health, not robust-

Eating 1 lb of sugar daily has strikingly positive effects on (male) fertility – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

And sugar can lower stress-

Sugar (sucrose) lowers stress-induced cortisol – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

Can you produce a list of many people, not just a small handful, that have seen remarkable results from introducing large amounts of table sugar? Many being the keyword to focus on.

 

[Vanset]

It's definitely terrible for my teeth.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

C'mon, they're just trying to find out what works best for them. So much misinformation out there, and even now if you google sugar there's so much out there that demonizes it. This is one of the only communities that helps people and it is easy to get doubt when there's so much convincing information out there that paints all that we now know as bad as a hero superfood.

Remember a time when you first found Peat's work and how confused you were. Maybe instead of jumping to a conspiracy it's really just a guy trying his best.

I didn’t jump to one I asked questions as in possibilities. But you’re right though. I also quickly skimmed the OPs posting history cause it’s short and he seems genuine.

 

[nomoreketones]

And what's the alternative? Trying to produce energy out of other macros is deleterious in a way carbohydrates aren't, and that is they weren't meant to be regularly used as energy, hence all the adaptive, secondary mechanisms attributed to them (GNG) etc.

I should have clarified that I have problems with fructose not glucose. When I say "sugar" I mean table sugar (sucrose) or HFCS both of which are high in fructose.

 

[I'm.No.One]

As anyone gotten over serious health issues by following Peat teachings? Or are they just a way to enhance performance when you are already mostly healthy?

Yes, while I still have issues I was literally close to death from adrenal crisis via extreme HPA burnout.

I was also severely underweight & although I didn't avoid sugar on an orthorexic level I certainly thought it did harm.

Adding sugars in ratio with protein/fat saved me.

Ultimately I don't spoon feed myself with white sugar, I do eat a fair amount of fruits/Maple syrup/Honey & add organic cane sugar to things I'm making as called for.

Also I may have missed it but letting us know what your wife is struggling with might be helpful. Sugar for sure won't be "the fix" more so a single piece of a larger puzzle.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Then why almost every anecdote of people that experiment with quitting sugar sees them having massive benefits, including and not just weight loss?

A rise in stress hormones will do that though.

I can't tell you how many times I've watched my mother quit sugar "because sugar addiction" & report feeling amazing/losing weight.

Then, a few months goes by & she's begging me to help her fix another issue that's been caused by blaming sugar+eating PUFA filled "health foods".

I'm talking she won't even eat fruits.

So I guess for me what I don't see is people who feel great/heal long term so much as they're riding a high from cortisol/adrenaline etc trying to keep their blood sugar from crashing.

But... It's probably just as extreme to be like the cowseatgrass blog guy & eat literal pound's of sugar a day.

Balance people, balance.

 

[Thalgo]

Also I may have missed it but letting us know what your wife is struggling with might be helpful. Sugar for sure won't be "the fix" more so a single piece of a larger puzzle.

Well, she has many symptoms, in fact if you look at most disorders she'll have between 80% and 100% of the listed symptoms. Lyme, bartonella, mycoplasma, EBV, CFS, MCAS, hypothyroidism, asperger, heavy metal poisoning, parasites, etc. We have not been vaccinated for Covid because in part she didn't want to add any more variables to her issues.

Unfortunately after coming down with covid about 2 months ago she crashed completely and became bedridden due to the high pain levels. Before she was able to get out of the house with the wheelchair.

She can walk. I mean, physically her body works fine.

Her main limiting symptom is extremely painful toe cramps, and she's unable to be touched from the ankle down. Not due to allodynia, but because touch causes cramping.

She takes gabapentin 600mg 3x a day and baclofen 20mg 3x a day.

Getting medical help has been a massive battle we've long stopped fighting. Atarax 25 mg takes the edge of the flare, sometimes.

Magnesium does basically nothing even at very high doses of 800mg elemental magnesium a day.

I believe I'll have to basically learn how to heal all disorders before learning how to heal hers, that's how many onion skins her issue has.

Because she takes so many different supplements it is really hard to pinpoint what helps/hinders her health. With a few exceptions related to the things that act quickly and reliably:

Glyteine, 1600 mg helps a lot. I'm hoping to raise this dose once I find a reliable way to import it.

Liposomal glutathione helps a tiny bit.

Liposomal melatonin helps a bit.

Adrenal cortex takes the edge of the pain sometimes.

She has high anxiety levels and several supplements calm her down ad help a little bit.

She also has ankylosing spondilitys, which high dose vitamin D was reliable helping.

She also reacts really bad to any drug, herbal, or substance with antimicrobial properties.

She was scratched by a feral cat when she was young and was also a girl scout for many years, sleeping in tents the wilderness. She had several cats and dogs and was bitten many times by fleas.

My working theory is that she has a body filled with many different infectious agents, inhabiting her nervous system and causing her most severe symptoms. Her immune system is obviously shot, as are her thyroid and adrenals. Her detox pathways must be clogged up with all sorts of parasites.

Her diagnosis are complex regional pain syndrome, cystic acne, ankylosing spondilitys* and LPR*. *not oficilaly recognized by her Doctors.

4 years and counting of trying all sort of supplements, diets, expensive machines, etc

At this point I'm looking into using adaptogens (mushrooms), the possibility of using ivermectin for parasites, and several different herbs and supplemetns to try and clean up the blood and get the detox pathways to work.

Unfortunately at this moment she's really down and even my presence in the same room cause her feet to enter spasms. She'll stay laying down with the windows closed because she says not seeing the sun makes time fly faster. The spasms/cramps only subside when she's completely zoned out (she can achieve this state watching TV), or upon awaking, literally the first 10 minutes upon awaking.

She says the feet are dormant for a few minutes and she's convinced that detail somehow holds an important piece of the puzzle.

We are in Portugal so sourcing certain supplements (DHEA, pregnalone), Doctors (LLMDs), and tests is not possible.
She's also incredible limited in what concerns ability to move and ability to interact with other people.

Blood tests, brain CT scans, foot MRI, and the many other exams she made when she was better didn't add anything of value to our knowledge pool. We did Scrambler Therapy in Italy in 2019, but she got worse.

We've also explored the possibility of it being of psychosomatic origin, she actually got a little better and became able to use a wheelchair. But all was lost after covid.

She's 25.

She eats meat, lots of pasta (a craving of hers), bread (another craving), grapes, eggs, a cookie made with coconout cashews and coconout sugar for breakfast, some sea salt (many salt cravings), and water. Occasionally she'll eat fish and other things. She doesn't eat milk, sugar (beyond the coconout sugar in the cookie), other fruits beyond an occasional orange.

Edit: This was precipitated after a sprained ankle in March 2018

 

[MarcelZD]

Then why almost every anecdote of people that experiment with quitting sugar sees them having massive benefits, including and not just weight loss?

I would like to know what these massive benefits are? Granted it is a stupid idea to have white sugar a staple but its negative effects are pretty straightfoward and linear - they deplete the micronutrients required for energy metabolism, especially thiamine and magnesium.

This is pretty bad (and for some individuals very bad), but I wouldn't say that makes sugar a causative factor in many disease unless your diet is just terrible.

 

[aniciete]

I would like to know what these massive benefits are? Granted it is a stupid idea to have white sugar a staple but its negative effects are pretty straightfoward and linear - they deplete the micronutrients required for energy metabolism, especially thiamine and magnesium.

This is pretty bad (and for some individuals very bad), but I wouldn't say that makes sugar a causative factor in many disease unless your diet is just terrible.

it’s a staple for Roddy and people hold him to a pretty high standard around here. He doesn’t supplement magnesium and thiamine either, says he gets them from coffee lol

 

[I'm.No.One]

Well, she has many symptoms, in fact if you look at most disorders she'll have between 80% and 100% of the listed symptoms. Lyme, bartonella, mycoplasma, EBV, CFS, MCAS, hypothyroidism, asperger, heavy metal poisoning, parasites, etc. We have not been vaccinated for Covid because in part she didn't want to add any more variables to her issues.

Unfortunately after coming down with covid about 2 months ago she crashed completely and became bedridden due to the high pain levels. Before she was able to get out of the house with the wheelchair.

She can walk. I mean, physically her body works fine.

Her main limiting symptom is extremely painful toe cramps, and she's unable to be touched from the ankle down. Not due to allodynia, but because touch causes cramping.

She takes gabapentin 600mg 3x a day and baclofen 20mg 3x a day.

Getting medical help has been a massive battle we've long stopped fighting. Atarax 25 mg takes the edge of the flare, sometimes.

Magnesium does basically nothing even at very high doses of 800mg elemental magnesium a day.

I believe I'll have to basically learn how to heal all disorders before learning how to heal hers, that's how many onion skins her issue has.

Because she takes so many different supplements it is really hard to pinpoint what helps/hinders her health. With a few exceptions related to the things that act quickly and reliably:

Glyteine, 1600 mg helps a lot. I'm hoping to raise this dose once I find a reliable way to import it.

Liposomal glutathione helps a tiny bit.

Liposomal melatonin helps a bit.

Adrenal cortex takes the edge of the pain sometimes.

She has high anxiety levels and several supplements calm her down ad help a little bit.

She also has ankylosing spondilitys, which high dose vitamin D was reliable helping.

She also reacts really bad to any drug, herbal, or substance with antimicrobial properties.

She was scratched by a feral cat when she was young and was also a girl scout for many years, sleeping in tents the wilderness. She had several cats and dogs and was bitten many times by fleas.

My working theory is that she has a body filled with many different infectious agents, inhabiting her nervous system and causing her most severe symptoms. Her immune system is obviously shot, as are her thyroid and adrenals. Her detox pathways must be clogged up with all sorts of parasites.

Her diagnosis are complex regional pain syndrome, cystic acne, ankylosing spondilitys* and LPR*. *not oficilaly recognized by her Doctors.

4 years and counting of trying all sort of supplements, diets, expensive machines, etc

At this point I'm looking into using adaptogens (mushrooms), the possibility of using ivermectin for parasites, and several different herbs and supplemetns to try and clean up the blood and get the detox pathways to work.

Unfortunately at this moment she's really down and even my presence in the same room cause her feet to enter spasms. She'll stay laying down with the windows closed because she says not seeing the sun makes time fly faster. The spasms/cramps only subside when she's completely zoned out (she can achieve this state watching TV), or upon awaking, literally the first 10 minutes upon awaking.

She says the feet are dormant for a few minutes and she's convinced that detail somehow holds an important piece of the puzzle.

We are in Portugal so sourcing certain supplements (DHEA, pregnalone), Doctors (LLMDs), and tests is not possible.
She's also incredible limited in what concerns ability to move and ability to interact with other people.

Blood tests, brain CT scans, foot MRI, and the many other exams she made when she was better didn't add anything of value to our knowledge pool. We did Scrambler Therapy in Italy in 2019, but she got worse.

We've also explored the possibility of it being of psychosomatic origin, she actually got a little better and became able to use a wheelchair. But all was lost after covid.

She's 25.

She eats meat, lots of pasta (a craving of hers), bread (another craving), grapes, eggs, a cookie made with coconout cashews and coconout sugar for breakfast, some sea salt (many salt cravings), and water. Occasionally she'll eat fish and other things. She doesn't eat milk, sugar (beyond the coconout sugar in the cookie), other fruits beyond an occasional orange.

Edit: This was precipitated after a sprained ankle in March 2018

How long has she been on the gabapentin? Any other GABA stimulators like benzos?

Have you heard of protracted withdrawal syndrome?

It looks like a million disorders/disease all at once.

Also, is she grounding at all? I'm guessing not since it sounds like she's bed ridden.

 

[MarcelZD]

it’s a staple for Roddy and people hold him to a pretty high standard around here. He doesn’t supplement magnesium and thiamine either, says he gets them from coffee lol

Strange. It makes you wonder how good his health really is. Coffee to me doesn't seem like a good source of micronutrients (and this is something I would disagree with Peat on) and of course it destroys thiamine.

Perhaps his way of eating works for him but it doesn't seem like a great diet for the majority of people. While I think sugar isn't that bad I can't think of any good reason why someone would consume it in place of fruit or even some of the more tolerable and nutrient-dense starches

 

[I'm.No.One]

There's a lot here so I'm jumping back in beyond the gaba stimulants question.

Well, she has many symptoms, in fact if you look at most disorders she'll have between 80% and 100% of the listed symptoms. Lyme, bartonella, mycoplasma, EBV, CFS, MCAS, hypothyroidism, asperger, heavy metal poisoning, parasites, etc. We have not been vaccinated for Covid because in part she didn't want to add any more variables to her issues.

Unfortunately after coming down with covid about 2 months ago she crashed completely and became bedridden due to the high pain levels. Before she was able to get out of the house with the wheelchair.

She can walk. I mean, physically her body works fine.

Her main limiting symptom is extremely painful toe cramps, and she's unable to be touched from the ankle down. Not due to allodynia, but because touch causes cramping.

So this happened after covid or before?

She takes gabapentin 600mg 3x a day and baclofen 20mg 3x a day.

Getting medical help has been a massive battle we've long stopped fighting. Atarax 25 mg takes the edge of the flare, sometimes.

Magnesium does basically nothing even at very high doses of 800mg elemental magnesium a day.

It's actually really hard to absorb magnesium unless your other minerals are in balance.

Have you checked her copper levels? Done an HTMA test?

The amount of supplements she's on, in all honesty, might be a huge factor in how unwell she is because it's REALLY easy to throw our system out of balance with this kind of approach.

I believe I'll have to basically learn how to heal all disorders before learning how to heal hers, that's how many onion skins her issue has.

In all honesty, and not to be harsh, but the fact that you came here with the belief that sugar is bad tells me you need to lean how the human body genuinely works (metabolism etc) before you begin attempting to solve all diseases/disorders she's potentially facing.

Because she takes so many different supplements it is really hard to pinpoint what helps/hinders her health.

Again, I think this is actually a possibility of what's at least partially wrong.

With a few exceptions related to the things that act quickly and reliably:

Glyteine, 1600 mg helps a lot. I'm hoping to raise this dose once I find a reliable way to import it.

Liposomal glutathione helps a tiny bit.

Liposomal melatonin helps a bit.

Adrenal cortex takes the edge of the pain sometimes.

She has high anxiety levels and several supplements calm her down ad help a little bit.

She also has ankylosing spondilitys, which high dose vitamin D was reliable helping.

High dose vitamin D can really throw a lot of systems out of balance, remember it's a hormone not a "vitamin".

She also reacts really bad to any drug, herbal, or substance with antimicrobial properties.

Have you done a stool test to see what's happening in her gut?

Could be die off.

She was scratched by a feral cat when she was young and was also a girl scout for many years, sleeping in tents the wilderness. She had several cats and dogs and was bitten many times by fleas.

Unless she actually got sick then those things likely gave her a stronger immune system.

My working theory is that she has a body filled with many different infectious agents, inhabiting her nervous system and causing her most severe symptoms. Her immune system is obviously shot, as are her thyroid and adrenals. Her detox pathways must be clogged up with all sorts of parasites.

Her diagnosis are complex regional pain syndrome, cystic acne, ankylosing spondilitys* and LPR*. *not oficilaly recognized by her Doctors.

4 years and counting of trying all sort of supplements, diets, expensive machines, etc

At this point I'm looking into using adaptogens (mushrooms), the possibility of using ivermectin for parasites, and several different herbs and supplemetns to try and clean up the blood and get the detox pathways to work.

Have you checked her liver function? I'm honestly a little worried with how many things she's been taking if you go any harder there could be real damage done.

Unfortunately at this moment she's really down and even my presence in the same room cause her feet to enter spasms.

That's psychosomatic.

She'll stay laying down with the windows closed because she says not seeing the sun makes time fly faster.

You know human beings need sunlight to survive right?

Without it we become horrendously depressed, we use it for ATP. That mean sunshine= mitochondrial energy.

The spasms/cramps only subside when she's completely zoned out (she can achieve this state watching TV), or upon awaking, literally the first 10 minutes upon awaking.

Doing any physical work to support her vegas nerve?

Could be her nervous system needs a lot of toning, could also be when she zones out, she's not paying attention to whatever thoughts might be generating the symptoms.

She says the feet are dormant for a few minutes and she's convinced that detail somehow holds an important piece of the puzzle.

It's all nerve related rather it's self created or an imbalance.

At this point I'd guess it's both & is a vicious cycle.

We are in Portugal so sourcing certain supplements (DHEA, pregnalone), Doctors (LLMDs), and tests is not possible.
She's also incredible limited in what concerns ability to move and ability to interact with other people.

Her serotonin levels are probably sky high with very little dopamine.

No one wants to even leave a bedroom when they feel like that, she sounds like she's more than likely agoraphobic to some degree.

Blood tests, brain CT scans, foot MRI, and the many other exams she made when she was better didn't add anything of value to our knowledge pool. We did Scrambler Therapy in Italy in 2019, but she got worse.

I would look around the form here to find better options for blood test and mineral status tests.

Most of what the doctor's order are useless and you will want to order your own testing.

We've also explored the possibility of it being of psychosomatic origin, she actually got a little better and became able to use a wheelchair. But all was lost after covid.

She's 25.

She eats meat, lots of pasta (a craving of hers), bread (another craving),

That is literally her body screaming for glucose.

The irony of not eating sugar but being willing to eat bread is strong here.

grapes, eggs, a cookie made with coconout cashews and coconout sugar for breakfast, some sea salt (many salt cravings), and water. Occasionally she'll eat fish and other things. She doesn't eat milk, sugar (beyond the coconout sugar in the cookie), other fruits beyond an occasional orange.

Edit: This was precipitated after a sprained ankle in March 2018

What happened after she sprained her ankle?

Like what medications are supplements did she begin to take?


I'd buy a nice grounding mat, make her look at the sun morning/night.

Cut out as many supplements as possible.

Look into protracted withdrawal symptom for benzodiazepine type medications and then look into amanita mushroom if she's needing to get off of those.

I'd look into some real mental health help not to say that she's not experiencing this, but you have to wonder how much of this you are enabling?

Again, I would get an HTMA test and genuinely look at what is going on inside of her body before you throw anything else at her supplement wise.

I'm guessing she's also probably horrendously depleted in all vitamin B's, including B1.

Just to say it sounds like you love her very much and you attempting to help her is a very kind thing, just remember, it does eventually become a hindrance if it's blocking her from facing things that she may need to sort out emotionally for the sake of recovering.

It's really easy to overlook the emotional/mental health aspect of illness.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Strange. It makes you wonder how good his health really is. Coffee to me doesn't seem like a good source of micronutrients (and this is something I would disagree with Peat on) and of course it destroys thiamine.

Perhaps his way of eating works for him but it doesn't seem like a great diet for the majority of people. While I think sugar isn't that bad I can't think of any good reason why someone would consume it in place of fruit or even some of the more tolerable and nutrient-dense starches

Not to sidetrack the thread but I was a patreon subscriber of his for a short while, even did the live Skype option.

He's a really nice guy and I think he definitely holds a lot of valid knowledge.

However, He looks like he has an eating disorder to be honest which is likely more to do with his phobia of fat intake versus how much sugar he eats.

I say that as a person who has helped my teenage child recover from one, he even wears the exceptionally baggy clothes/shirts to hide how thin he is.

I canceled my Patreon membership with him once it became apparent that the only thing he believes that can help people for the most part is taking copious amounts of thyroid medication and more sugar. Recently vitamin D as well.

Before I canceled my membership I told him my vitamin D levels were amazing on their own, with a test that proved it, he basically said "that's not possible".

I have kinda wondered, but not brought it up here for fear of a slap to the face () if the reason they can eat lbs of sugar is because of the thyroid/caffeine they're taking in 24/7 & or if the need for sugar goes up because of the high intake.

Anyhow that's my experience with him.

 

[Vileplume]

I can't think of any good reason why someone would consume it in place of fruit or even some of the more tolerable and nutrient-dense starches

I think it's usually when for whatever reason, people can't digest those foods you mentioned.

Most grocery store fruits are underripe and hard to digest. And some people (for bacterial reasons or sluggish metabolism) struggle with starches, so they're kinda stuck on options. And by people, I mean me haha

 

[Chad_Catholic]

I started sweetening my milk and orange juice with sugar and I'm never going back