Anxiety off the scale. Please can you help?

[mostlylurking]

Thank you. I was just posting off to Young Sinatre when your so helpful reply arrived. At least three of you here have now suggested thiamine deficiency. I am totally convinced and thank you all for alerting me. I do not think my GP would understand if I asked for a B1 injection but I shall now most definitely persevere with getting my daily intake up to what you suggest, 300 mg, even if it does cause me headaches. Perhaps slowly upping my intake each day, will bring relief to some of my symptoms and, thereby, relief to my frazzled and anxious mind! Such a vicious circle. I can hardly believe that I have become this crazy being, when I set out to help myself. I do hope that I can reverse all this. May I please ask if you still take thiamine in supplement form (perhaps with a balance of other Bs) or whether you rely totally on food? And if the latter, how do you do that?

You misunderstood me; I didn't make myself clear, sorry. I said I was able to discern that my problem was with thiamine deficiency by taking 300mg of thiamine hcl. But that was NOT a large enough dose for me to regain my health.

Have you had prior issues of headaches when taking thiamine hcl?

I have been thiamine deficient for many years, I think because I carry a load of heavy metals internally, including mercury from amalgam fillings and aluminum from aluminum cookware. I have lead poisoning I got from renovating old houses and from cleaning out my brother's house after his death. This very long term problem was exacerbated last year when I took Bactrim antibiotic which blocks thiamine function. The Bactrim nearly finished me off. I recovered via high dose thiamine hcl. It took several months.

I spent from October of 2020 through January of 2021 increasing my thiamine hcl dose and have been taking my maintenance dose of 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl since the first of February 2021. When I finally got up to 2 grams/day, within 2 days of that dose, I experienced major improvements with my digestive tract. That 2 gram dose has continued to work very well for me.

I follow Dr. Costantini's protocol on his website here: HDT Therapy He said at this link that 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl for 7 days is equal to the benefit of one 100mg injection of thiamine hcl per week. Thiamine hcl does not absorb efficiently through the gut.

I was not able to tolerate the TTFD type of thiamine. Apparently, it requires glutathione to work and I was low in glutathione. TTFD gave me a headache; thiamine hcl caused no negative side effects. However, lower doses of thiamine hcl would stop working after about a week which I interpreted to mean I needed a higher dose. High dose thiamine hcl resolved my brain issues just fine; it gets through the blood brain barrier if you flood your system with high doses.

I also take magnesium glycinate, but there are other good magnesiums available if you prefer; just avoid magnesium citrate. I also take a good b-complex. I drink orange juice for the potassium. I take additional niacinamide (90mg/3Xday), and some extra riboflavin and a little biotin. I also take pregnenolone and about 40mg progesterone/day. I also take D3 (sublingual drops), vitamin A (transdermal), and K2 (sublingual). I eat a lot of dairy. I drink a quart of OJ/day. I put a little maple syrup in my milk and a little honey in my home made salad dressing. I can't tolerate any coffee; it blocks thiamine as does tea. I'm hypothyroid and take prescription natural desiccated thyriod.

I've noticed that I need to drink more water to keep from getting dehydrated and I need to drink some OJ in the afternoon to avoid low blood sugar. I have the stamina now to work in my garden again; I'm planting rose bushes and reworking the soil with a turning fork. I'm female, almost 72.

Hang in there; you can most certainly reverse the problem and regain your health. Here's a link to some videos of Dr. Costantini's patients for inspiration, before and after treatment with thiamine hcl: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu

 

[Tilly-J]

I’m very sorry for your suffering, @Tilly-J. My heart goes out to you. If it’s not too personal a question, have you sought professional help? I won’t pretend to know the nature of your eating disorder, and this is just my non-professional opinion, but I believe for many people, EDs are more than just a metabolic disorder, there’s a soul/emotional component to them and what seems to me, fear and a need for control due to life experiences, oftentimes traumatic in nature, and without getting to the root cause, like a shape-shifter, the need for control can take on new forms—for example, going from anorexia to orthorexia—keeping the painful cycle going.

As much as I respect the members on this forum, they don’t know your personal context. You deserve to have someone you can confide in who knows your history and triggers and can help with navigating your fears and old patterns of thinking as they surface, especially when you feel like utter rubbish and start to doubt yourself, something likely to happen during recovery as you’re discovering a new way of being and your body is readjusting to match you. I’m not sure if this will be of any help to you, but one thing I have found helpful while overcoming disempowering beliefs and patterns is to care for myself like I’m my daughter, speaking to myself kindly, feeding myself nourishing foods that I crave and surrounding myself with love and that which makes me feel alive.

It can be terrifying letting go, even of the things that are hurting us, but I believe there’s beauty in the process. The way I see it, you’re finding yourself and I believe it’s your birthright to discover who you are and love who you discover. It’s your right to nourish your body the way you see fit, to consume the foods you enjoy, to honor your uniqueness, something I believe is your gift to the world and a loss for it if not expressed. You have a right to be your own authority and to know your personal power—the only one you need permission from to be you is you. Please don’t feel ashamed of your experiences—for being human. Be in awe of the gift that is you and your life and if you can, fill yourself up with so much love there’s no room left for the ED.

For you :


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqcNwKkL0GY

Hello Jennifer,
I am so pleased to have your message. I was really hoping you might pop up. I intended to reply straight away but I have not been feeling well. As I said in my original post, I have read your logs several times and, in a strange way, feel I know you a little bit. I hope it is okay for me to say that. It is certainly not too personal a question and, yes, I am currently working with a therapist and feel so fortunate to be doing so. I feel so very comfortable and safe with him. We are working with the affirmation: 'I am reclaiming my life', which is probably what prompted to come to this forum with all my confusions and doubts.

I suppose it is normal to feel worse before one feels better but I feel so stuck in the place between soul and metabolism. My soul longs to soar and to dance and to hike, as yours does now, I think, but I am living in a weak, and getting weaker, body. I am so scared that I shall not be able to save myself and that some physical crisis is about to happen - from osteoporotic fracture to a heart attack from living with constant anxiety and panic. I simply want to find a way of eating enough food on a daily basis for weight gain and healing.

You are right, I must learn to care for myself as I would a daughter and feed her nourishing foods. But I do not know any longer, having tried to follow some of Dr. Peat's suggestions, what nourishing foods are. Having actually enjoyed following the Peatish diet which I listed above, I can no longer deny that I am feeling more sick than ever. I now find that I have made myself deficient in B1 which others here have kindly brought to my attention. I cannot therefore go on eating as I was and my whole eating regime has gone out of the window and I am left doubting all food. I try to avoid possible culprit foods and am left with less and less choice, which makes me feel more and more ill, which makes me hate myself more and more. I am close to breakdown. Of course, I know there are no culprit foods, only my shattered metabolism

I should love to eat as you do - fruit and dairy (and at one point a little chocolate?). The simplicity and purity of it draws me so much. But something happens when I eat dairy - I get more and more taut in my muscles and my chest (heart) feels tight and a little painful. I have tried to cut out milk but then find my calorie intake drops significantly (I have histamine issues and oxalate issues so juice and other protein sources are very limited and SIBO which makes starch almost impossible) and I find myself craving it so much that I begin drinking milk and eating cheese again and the symptoms get worse. And then I become so worried that my calcium levels are approaching 3,000 mg, with all that Dr. Peat says about intracellular and extracellular calcium fluxes, I do wonder how you have been able to reconcile a high level of calcium with your body, soul and mind. And where do you get enough thiamine from to prevent you falling prey to deficiency symptoms.

I must stop asking you these questions because of course I know that you eat spiritually, just as you live spiritually. You trust in your body's wisdom to balance things out and, most importantly, you listen to your body. There is indeed beauty in the process of healing, I do believe that. I have met some wonderful people on my life's journey and I am here writing to you and others, which is so soul-lifting. I am sorry to sound often despairing. It is just that I long to find the courage to be me and to know how to feed me. Thank you so much for your wisdom words and for reaching out and for gifting me this piece of music which I so much needed to hear. I have never heard of Dresage x AG before and am going to go listen to some more now before I go sleep. And tomorrow, I shall try to 'smile with the rising sun'. I am so pleased to know you a little.
Thank you.

 

[Jennifer]

I’m really sorry to hear you haven’t been feeling well, @Tilly-J. Please don’t ever feel pressure to respond to me, okay? I’ve been coming on the forum lately just to respond to private messages, but saw your thread and had this feeling that I should read it. I don’t mind it at all that you say you feel you know me. I’ve blabbered enough on the forum that it’s probably not a stretch to say you do. lol

I can understand your fears. When I was at my worst and unaware of my thyroid disorder, I had a not so stellar experience involving friends trying to have me committed because they believed I was “killing myself and would die from heart failure” and as a result, I began fearing my heart would stop. Anyhow, I think you and I have quite a few angels in the outfield protecting us given what we’ve been through and the fact that we’re still alive, however, I can understand feeling like you’ll die. Anxiety symptoms do feel like dying, but it seems to me that if your body was going to give out on you, it would have done so in the last 40+ years it was starving, not now when it’s being nourished. It may not feel like it, but I think you’re doing a really good job taking care of yourself.

I’m sorry to hear about your thiamine deficiency diagnosis. I’ve been tested and thankfully I’m not deficient in it, since I react poorly to B supplements. I, and my mum, have had the same symptoms as you but in our case, they were caused by adrenaline. At one point, while experiencing the daily adrenaline attacks/convulsions and syncope, I thought I was having a stroke—I couldn’t feel my face or the left side of my body—and my mum’s chest hurt so much during her attacks that she swore she was having a heart attack. In regards to calcium, my bone density improved greatly while consuming 4+ liters worth of dairy daily—I went from a score of -6.7 to -3.6—so if anything, I’m cautious of not getting enough calcium. I’m not consuming dairy currently, but I am supplementing with eggshell powder.

Have doctors treated your SIBO (which can actually be a cause of histamine intolerance)? When I had it, practically every food was an issue for me. Dairy was the worst offender. The year and a half I refed on 6,000–10,000 cals. daily, my diet looked very different than my current one. Nourishing to me simply means eating what makes you feel good. It can take a couple weeks when reintroducing a new food for the body to digest it properly but IME, you shouldn’t feel worse much past that so if you do, chances are a food isn’t agreeing with you (possibly due to ED induced thyroid and adrenal dysfunction and SIBO) and/or stress is messing with digestion. Ray has talked about how even our thoughts can affect gut permeability, and lord knows eating is stressful for those suffering from EDs.

It’s perfectly fine to ask me questions, and even though I try to eat intuitively, I also use science. If I’m having a reaction, I’m thinking about metabolic processes just as much as I’m thinking about spiritual/energetic influences. It’s just that fear had me living too much from the mind and I miss the magic when I’m caught up in my head, something that is far too easy for me—I blame my heavily Aquarius and Libra placements. Hehe! And there’s no need to apologize for expressing your despair. You’re just being honest. I feel despair at times, too. It’s hard not to when suffering, and I don’t think it’s healthy to suppress how we feel, anyway. I’m really glad the song was timely. It came to me while going through a rough patch recently. I like to think it was my grandmother who passed away this year speaking to me. We have a thing with birds so…

It’s been a pleasure getting to chat with you, though, I wish it were under better circumstances. You seem like a lovely person and I’m rooting for you. :)

 

[Tilly-J]

I’m really sorry to hear you haven’t been feeling well, @Tilly-J. Please don’t ever feel pressure to respond to me, okay? I’ve been coming on the forum lately just to respond to private messages, but saw your thread and had this feeling that I should read it. I don’t mind it at all that you say you feel you know me. I’ve blabbered enough on the forum that it’s probably not a stretch to say you do. lol

I can understand your fears. When I was at my worst and unaware of my thyroid disorder, I had a not so stellar experience involving friends trying to have me committed because they believed I was “killing myself and would die from heart failure” and as a result, I began fearing my heart would stop. Anyhow, I think you and I have quite a few angels in the outfield protecting us given what we’ve been through and the fact that we’re still alive, however, I can understand feeling like you’ll die. Anxiety symptoms do feel like dying, but it seems to me that if your body was going to give out on you, it would have done so in the last 40+ years it was starving, not now when it’s being nourished. It may not feel like it, but I think you’re doing a really good job taking care of yourself.

I’m sorry to hear about your thiamine deficiency diagnosis. I’ve been tested and thankfully I’m not deficient in it, since I react poorly to B supplements. I, and my mum, have had the same symptoms as you but in our case, they were caused by adrenaline. At one point, while experiencing the daily adrenaline attacks/convulsions and syncope, I thought I was having a stroke—I couldn’t feel my face or the left side of my body—and my mum’s chest hurt so much during her attacks that she swore she was having a heart attack. In regards to calcium, my bone density improved greatly while consuming 4+ liters worth of dairy daily—I went from a score of -6.7 to -3.6—so if anything, I’m cautious of not getting enough calcium. I’m not consuming dairy currently, but I am supplementing with eggshell powder.

Have doctors treated your SIBO (which can actually be a cause of histamine intolerance)? When I had it, practically every food was an issue for me. Dairy was the worst offender. The year and a half I refed on 6,000–10,000 cals. daily, my diet looked very different than my current one. Nourishing to me simply means eating what makes you feel good. It can take a couple weeks when reintroducing a new food for the body to digest it properly but IME, you shouldn’t feel worse much past that so if you do, chances are a food isn’t agreeing with you (possibly due to ED induced thyroid and adrenal dysfunction and SIBO) and/or stress is messing with digestion. Ray has talked about how even our thoughts can affect gut permeability, and lord knows eating is stressful for those suffering from EDs.

It’s perfectly fine to ask me questions, and even though I try to eat intuitively, I also use science. If I’m having a reaction, I’m thinking about metabolic processes just as much as I’m thinking about spiritual/energetic influences. It’s just that fear had me living too much from the mind and I miss the magic when I’m caught up in my head, something that is far too easy for me—I blame my heavily Aquarius and Libra placements. Hehe! And there’s no need to apologize for expressing your despair. You’re just being honest. I feel despair at times, too. It’s hard not to when suffering, and I don’t think it’s healthy to suppress how we feel, anyway. I’m really glad the song was timely. It came to me while going through a rough patch recently. I like to think it was my grandmother who passed away this year speaking to me. We have a thing with birds so…

It’s been a pleasure getting to chat with you, though, I wish it were under better circumstances. You seem like a lovely person and I’m rooting for you. :)

Thank you Jennifer for your long and thoughtful reply. I am sorry to hear that you and your Mum had such dreadful times when you were dealing with high levels of adrenaline. I do know that this situation can be very scary. I wonder protocol you used to address this issue.

That was an amazing increase in bone density, but I wonder what foods you used to reach 6,000-10,000 calories. I would willing shoot for that level if I thought I might save my bones and my life. Do you remember how you did it? I assume you did not know about Peat-like ways back then. Would you do it differently now? Perhaps I should leave this forum, but it is impossible to put Dr. Peat out of one's mind when one has spent so many hours reading.

As I write to you here, I am so desperate. I wish I never had to eat again - simply because I do not know what to eat. I really want to end my life, right now. I have just finished my lunch which was just ground beef and mango and, of course, I am starving, but have so many rules flooding my mind:

can't have more fruit because too many carbs making B1 deficiency even worse (want very much)
can't have OJ or pineapple juice ditto and re histamine (want juice very much)
can't have starch - SIBO (don't want, but not sure)
can't have dairy - too much calcium (want VERY VERY much)
can't have nuts or seeds - PUFAs (don't want anyway)

What is left? Just this stage of paralysis whilst I am flooded with adrenaline and cortisol and then I am flooded even more because I know the first flood is damaging me so much. And I am denying my precious body the food it wants - only because I don't know what it wants, no other reason than that.

I don't know how to get on with my day because I am hungry and totally distracted.

The pains and tightness in my muscles, especially my legs - I do not know whether this is lactic acid or too much calcium. And all the other symptoms, especially with my eyes and my heart.

I am so sorry, I should not be here off-loading like this. It is just so hard, when I am willing to eat anything and any quantity if someone would tell me. I truly want to die, I mean just give my life to someone else who could do a better and more courageous job of living it than I can do. What a wicked thing to say: I want to die because I do not know what to eat. And there are millions of people dying because they do not have enough to eat. I think I must be insane.

I am surprised to hear you say that you are off dairy. May I ask you what you are eating? But only if you feel comfortable. Only if you do.

Thank you for 'rooting for me' Jennifer. I am not sure what time of day it is for you. Whatever is left of it, I hope you enjoy it and if it is close to bedtime, I hope you sleep well.

 

[laleto12]

Thank you Jennifer for your long and thoughtful reply. I am sorry to hear that you and your Mum had such dreadful times when you were dealing with high levels of adrenaline. I do know that this situation can be very scary. I wonder protocol you used to address this issue.

That was an amazing increase in bone density, but I wonder what foods you used to reach 6,000-10,000 calories. I would willing shoot for that level if I thought I might save my bones and my life. Do you remember how you did it? I assume you did not know about Peat-like ways back then. Would you do it differently now? Perhaps I should leave this forum, but it is impossible to put Dr. Peat out of one's mind when one has spent so many hours reading.

As I write to you here, I am so desperate. I wish I never had to eat again - simply because I do not know what to eat. I really want to end my life, right now. I have just finished my lunch which was just ground beef and mango and, of course, I am starving, but have so many rules flooding my mind:

can't have more fruit because too many carbs making B1 deficiency even worse (want very much)
can't have OJ or pineapple juice ditto and re histamine (want juice very much)
can't have starch - SIBO (don't want, but not sure)
can't have dairy - too much calcium (want VERY VERY much)
can't have nuts or seeds - PUFAs (don't want anyway)

What is left? Just this stage of paralysis whilst I am flooded with adrenaline and cortisol and then I am flooded even more because I know the first flood is damaging me so much. And I am denying my precious body the food it wants - only because I don't know what it wants, no other reason than that.

I don't know how to get on with my day because I am hungry and totally distracted.

The pains and tightness in my muscles, especially my legs - I do not know whether this is lactic acid or too much calcium. And all the other symptoms, especially with my eyes and my heart.

I am so sorry, I should not be here off-loading like this. It is just so hard, when I am willing to eat anything and any quantity if someone would tell me. I truly want to die, I mean just give my life to someone else who could do a better and more courageous job of living it than I can do. What a wicked thing to say: I want to die because I do not know what to eat. And there are millions of people dying because they do not have enough to eat. I think I must be insane.

I am surprised to hear you say that you are off dairy. May I ask you what you are eating? But only if you feel comfortable. Only if you do.

Thank you for 'rooting for me' Jennifer. I am not sure what time of day it is for you. Whatever is left of it, I hope you enjoy it and if it is close to bedtime, I hope you sleep well.

Damn this resonated with me so much. I wish I never had to eat again to be honest. I am sick of anxiety, stress responses and gut problems so much. I feel like I am over flowed with adrenaline.

 

[Tilly-J]

Damn this resonated with me so much. I wish I never had to eat again to be honest. I am sick of anxiety, stress responses and gut problems so much. I feel like I am over flowed with adrenaline.

Hello Laleto12,
I am sorry that you are suffering also. It is so hard when one simply wants to get on with life, look outwards and help others. I hate myself for being so self-obsessed.

Do you eat sugar or starch? Do you find you are shaky after one more than the other? Do you drink milk?

Something (one of many things) I don't understand: should one eat oneself out of a panic/adrenaline attack, i.e. when adrenaline is coursing through my body having just had a large mug of milk with 1/2 tsp sugar and some sweetened stewed apple and I am shaky and dizzy, should I eat sugar, in the form of juice or more fruit or more milk, because that is what I am craving and some honey or white chocolate? My body just wants more and more. Or should I starve myself (which I don't want to do because I am trying to get 3000 calories per day and am doing abysmally)? Will I just get more and more dizzy and shaky and be damaging my metabolism even more if I satisfy that need for sweetness. I long to feel settled and satiated.

What is the way out of an adrenaline rush? I know people have here suggested niacinamide, but I don't do vitamins very well at all (headaches), my body has become so ridiculously sensitive when it never used to be. What I really want to know is how to eat (or not eat) when one is experiencing these episodes (which is almost constantly to be honest). If I could only find the answer, I would be on my way to recovery and what a relief and a delight that would be.

In the meantime, please know that I do know how bad it is for you and I am very sorry.

 

[youngsinatra]

@Tilly-J
do you know your current vitamin D level ?

 

[Jennifer]

@Tilly-J, I’m going to respond to your post in full tonight. Family just arrived to celebrate Thanksgiving, but I wanted to quickly tell you I totally get it, even wanting to end your life, but I promise you it will get better. Hopefully this isn’t taken the wrong way—you’re special, but not so special that you can’t heal like others have, it just may take some major courage letting go of the rules and science you’ve adopted. I don’t know if this will be helpful to you but something that has worked well for my mum and I when we’ve had adrenaline attacks is salt (well dissolved in water or coconut water) and an aspirin (starch removed). And to give you an idea of what I consumed while refeeding, here’s what I posted to sugarbabe some time ago:

“I made most of my food from scratch and used sprouted flours for digestibility. Some of the things I consumed — fruit/juice, soups like creamy butternut squash, French onion and New England clam chowder, French bread veggie grinders, mashed creamer potatoes with jam, grass-fed hotdogs, tourtière with maple syrup, poutine, quiche, scrambled eggs with crab and potato hash browns, egg croissant sandwiches with fig jam, crêpes with butter and cinnamon sugar, brioche French toast with maple syrup, oatmeal with coconut cream and maple syrup, whole milk goat yogurt with raw honey, ice cream with fruit compotes etc. and occasionally a piece of raspberry zinger cake from a local bakery and gelato, EVOO marinated buffalo mozzarella, sun dried tomato and roasted garlic and an EVOO honey poppy seed fusilli salad with pineapple from a little Italian shop.”

Trouble Breathing/ Shortness Of Breath

I am SO happy to read this, I’ve thought of you often! I am wondering if you have pinned down which foods were really causing the breathing issues? And thrilled to hear that fruit is not only safe but healing for you!

raypeatforum.com

Talk with you later!

 

[Cooper]

Increase GABA. Take supplements for that. And meditate daily.

 

[mostlylurking]

Something (one of many things) I don't understand: should one eat oneself out of a panic/adrenaline attack, i.e. when adrenaline is coursing through my body having just had a large mug of milk with 1/2 tsp sugar and some sweetened stewed apple and I am shaky and dizzy, should I eat sugar, in the form of juice or more fruit or more milk, because that is what I am craving and some honey or white chocolate? My body just wants more and more. Or should I starve myself (which I don't want to do because I am trying to get 3000 calories per day and am doing abysmally)? Will I just get more and more dizzy and shaky and be damaging my metabolism even more if I satisfy that need for sweetness. I long to feel settled and satiated.

Ray Peat says that eating some sugar (like having some orange juice) is good because it stabilizes the blood sugar and lowers adrenaline. The blood sugar (aka glucose) goes into the cells and gets burned for energy, resulting in carbon dioxide, if things are working as they should. However, thiamine is required to burn that glucose. So if you are deficient in thiamine, you can't burn the glucose, so you will crave more sugar because your cells are still hungry because they can't burn it.

Ray talks about the problem of free fatty acids blocking the body's ability to burn sugar and that is a similar problem. According to the Randle Cycle concept, if free fatty acids are high they block sugar metabolism. A small dose (90mg) of niacinamide 3-4 times a day can really help because it keeps fatty acids parked in the fat cells where they don't interfere with sugar metabolism.

The thiamine problem is a little more complicated because a high sugar or high starch intake actually depletes thiamine and makes the thiamine deficiency worse. So it is helpful to evaluate one's diet. Peat has said that the sugar in 2 quarts of milk plus the sugar in one quart of orange juice is a healthy daily amount. He has also said that if you are going to consume more sugar than this then you will need to supplement some thiamine. I think that if you are having problems like you described, it would be a good idea to stop consuming additional sugars and stick with what Peat has suggested. Adding a thiamine supplement would be helpful.

Some people have greater requirements for thiamine than others. Some of the things that affect the requirement for thiamine are: heavy metals load, the type of bacteria in the gut, exposure to thiaminase in the diet. Thiaminase destroys thiamine; common ones include coffee and tea. A search for "thiaminase" will lead to some others. Some gut bacteria manufacture thiamine and some gut bacteria use it up; there are studies that show that supplementing thiamine improves gut bacteria balance. Lead poisoning uses up thiamine; thiamine supplementation counteracts the symptoms of lead poisoning.

Hypothyroidism enters into the blood sugar issue too. Briefly, hypothyroid people have more tendency to hypoglycemia which makes you shaky and crave sugar.

 

[Tilly-J]

@Tilly-J
do you know your current vitamin D level ?

Six months ago it was 68 nmol/L. I am having it retested in two weeks' time.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Six months ago it was 68 nmol/L. I am having it retested in two weeks' time.

For those used to the more common ng/ml that is 27.5 ng/ml.

 

[Tilly-J]

@Tilly-J, I’m going to respond to your post in full tonight. Family just arrived to celebrate Thanksgiving, but I wanted to quickly tell you I totally get it, even wanting to end your life, but I promise you it will get better. Hopefully this isn’t taken the wrong way—you’re special, but not so special that you can’t heal like others have, it just may take some major courage letting go of the rules and science you’ve adopted. I don’t know if this will be helpful to you but something that has worked well for my mum and I when we’ve had adrenaline attacks is salt (well dissolved in water or coconut water) and an aspirin (starch removed). And to give you an idea of what I consumed while refeeding, here’s what I posted to sugarbabe some time ago:

“I made most of my food from scratch and used sprouted flours for digestibility. Some of the things I consumed — fruit/juice, soups like creamy butternut squash, French onion and New England clam chowder, French bread veggie grinders, mashed creamer potatoes with jam, grass-fed hotdogs, tourtière with maple syrup, poutine, quiche, scrambled eggs with crab and potato hash browns, egg croissant sandwiches with fig jam, crêpes with butter and cinnamon sugar, brioche French toast with maple syrup, oatmeal with coconut cream and maple syrup, whole milk goat yogurt with raw honey, ice cream with fruit compotes etc. and occasionally a piece of raspberry zinger cake from a local bakery and gelato, EVOO marinated buffalo mozzarella, sun dried tomato and roasted garlic and an EVOO honey poppy seed fusilli salad with pineapple from a little Italian shop.”

Trouble Breathing/ Shortness Of Breath

I am SO happy to read this, I’ve thought of you often! I am wondering if you have pinned down which foods were really causing the breathing issues? And thrilled to hear that fruit is not only safe but healing for you!

raypeatforum.com

Talk with you later!

Thank you my friend, thank you so much. I shall go back and read more of the thread you posted here. Please only get back to me when you really have time. How lovely that you are able to celebrate Thanksgiving without being overly concerned about food issues. I am sure you have planed and chosen well. May you and your family enjoy. I have plenty of ideas here to think about, even if they feel me with dread. I don't actually like cooking at all and I do not like savoury and sweet together, but I am going to make a list from yours here of things which I could do. Oatmeal soaked overnight, made into a thick porridge with goats milk, sounds very good to me. I should like to make two day's worth of foods which would meet my 3000 calories and then just follow that in repetition. It would be such enormous relief to feel that I am caring for myself. I am so ready for that and could even feel excited about it - when I have my plan. To be on the way to somewhere better would be amazing. Thank you for getting me. Thank you.

P.S. I will try the salt.

 

[Tilly-J]

Increase GABA. Take supplements for that. And meditate daily.

Please, are you able to tell which supplements raise GABA most efficiently. I do very badly indeed with sulfur things. I cannot take glutathione, or NAC or eat eggs - I get such bad headaches. I tested high for oxalates about 10 months ago.

Meditation - I so much agree. But I am caught in my vicious cycle. Until I have some idea of what I am going to eat (just a day's worth of food) to gain weight for recovery and am able to make good the symptoms of flagrant B1 deficiency symptoms, I feel unable to settle. It really is a chicken and egg situation, but I am in fact quite a spiritual person and have no idea how I have slipped into this anxious and wired state. Thank you for your suggestion.

 

[Tilly-J]

Ray Peat says that eating some sugar (like having some orange juice) is good because it stabilizes the blood sugar and lowers adrenaline. The blood sugar (aka glucose) goes into the cells and gets burned for energy, resulting in carbon dioxide, if things are working as they should. However, thiamine is required to burn that glucose. So if you are deficient in thiamine, you can't burn the glucose, so you will crave more sugar because your cells are still hungry because they can't burn it.

Ray talks about the problem of free fatty acids blocking the body's ability to burn sugar and that is a similar problem. According to the Randle Cycle concept, if free fatty acids are high they block sugar metabolism. A small dose (90mg) of niacinamide 3-4 times a day can really help because it keeps fatty acids parked in the fat cells where they don't interfere with sugar metabolism.

The thiamine problem is a little more complicated because a high sugar or high starch intake actually depletes thiamine and makes the thiamine deficiency worse. So it is helpful to evaluate one's diet. Peat has said that the sugar in 2 quarts of milk plus the sugar in one quart of orange juice is a healthy daily amount. He has also said that if you are going to consume more sugar than this then you will need to supplement some thiamine. I think that if you are having problems like you described, it would be a good idea to stop consuming additional sugars and stick with what Peat has suggested. Adding a thiamine supplement would be helpful.

Some people have greater requirements for thiamine than others. Some of the things that affect the requirement for thiamine are: heavy metals load, the type of bacteria in the gut, exposure to thiaminase in the diet. Thiaminase destroys thiamine; common ones include coffee and tea. A search for "thiaminase" will lead to some others. Some gut bacteria manufacture thiamine and some gut bacteria use it up; there are studies that show that supplementing thiamine improves gut bacteria balance. Lead poisoning uses up thiamine; thiamine supplementation counteracts the symptoms of lead poisoning.

Hypothyroidism enters into the blood sugar issue too. Briefly, hypothyroid people have more tendency to hypoglycemia which makes you shaky and crave sugar.

Thank you, this is so helpful. I have read some other posts by you elsewhere. You really do know lots about thiamine. My biggest problem is that I cannot get beyond about 80 mg per day without it generating a headache. I take magnesium, but perhaps I should take more. Please would you tell me what brand you use of both thiamine and magnesium, thank you. I long to reach your level of 2g thiamine per day. I have little doubt that I am thiamine deficient. My eyes are bad, my chest feels tight and my muscles are very scarily taut and just all the autonomic nervous system dysregulation. I am so inspired by your journey.

Would you mind telling me what you eat in addition to your 2 quarts of milk and 1 quart of OJ, on an average day, quite exactly! I have bad histamine reactions so I doubt OJ will even be possible and am not sure what fruit I could use as a substitute, which would not trigger too much of a glucose surge. I will try niacinamide.

It was lovely to hear that you now have the strength to be out in your garden again and so you are obviously feeling so much better. I admire the dedication you have used to get this far. I long to be out in nature again, enjoying living in this body which has been gifted me. I feel I am taking up a great deal of your time. I hope you know how much it is appreciated.

 

[Jennifer]

Thank you Jennifer for your long and thoughtful reply. I am sorry to hear that you and your Mum had such dreadful times when you were dealing with high levels of adrenaline. I do know that this situation can be very scary. I wonder protocol you used to address this issue.

That was an amazing increase in bone density, but I wonder what foods you used to reach 6,000-10,000 calories. I would willing shoot for that level if I thought I might save my bones and my life. Do you remember how you did it? I assume you did not know about Peat-like ways back then. Would you do it differently now? Perhaps I should leave this forum, but it is impossible to put Dr. Peat out of one's mind when one has spent so many hours reading.

As I write to you here, I am so desperate. I wish I never had to eat again - simply because I do not know what to eat. I really want to end my life, right now. I have just finished my lunch which was just ground beef and mango and, of course, I am starving, but have so many rules flooding my mind:

can't have more fruit because too many carbs making B1 deficiency even worse (want very much)
can't have OJ or pineapple juice ditto and re histamine (want juice very much)
can't have starch - SIBO (don't want, but not sure)
can't have dairy - too much calcium (want VERY VERY much)
can't have nuts or seeds - PUFAs (don't want anyway)

What is left? Just this stage of paralysis whilst I am flooded with adrenaline and cortisol and then I am flooded even more because I know the first flood is damaging me so much. And I am denying my precious body the food it wants - only because I don't know what it wants, no other reason than that.

I don't know how to get on with my day because I am hungry and totally distracted.

The pains and tightness in my muscles, especially my legs - I do not know whether this is lactic acid or too much calcium. And all the other symptoms, especially with my eyes and my heart.

I am so sorry, I should not be here off-loading like this. It is just so hard, when I am willing to eat anything and any quantity if someone would tell me. I truly want to die, I mean just give my life to someone else who could do a better and more courageous job of living it than I can do. What a wicked thing to say: I want to die because I do not know what to eat. And there are millions of people dying because they do not have enough to eat. I think I must be insane.

I am surprised to hear you say that you are off dairy. May I ask you what you are eating? But only if you feel comfortable. Only if you do.

Thank you for 'rooting for me' Jennifer. I am not sure what time of day it is for you. Whatever is left of it, I hope you enjoy it and if it is close to bedtime, I hope you sleep well.

You’re welcome. And thank you. :) The adrenaline attacks were caused by hypoglycemia from an underactive thyroid so I started taking NDT and did an elimination diet to figure out which foods were crashing my blood sugar—all animal protein except for milk—and how many carbs to get in relation to protein—at the time I needed 4 or more grams of carbs for every gram of protein.

That increase in bone density was prior to refeeding, while I was following a WAPF inspired diet. I had already discovered Ray’s work prior to refeeding. Keep in mind that I wasn’t coming from a history of calorie restriction, but if I had it to do all over again, I wouldn’t join health forums or refeed, at least not forcing a minimum of calories on myself, and definitely not following Youreatopia guidelines. I’ve talked about it on the forum before so I won’t litter your thread with that nightmarish stroll down memory lane.

When your thiamine level was last checked, how many carbs did your doctor say you can safely have without worsening your deficiency?

You mentioned OJ and pineapple juice—you don’t like any other juices besides those two?

Have you tried regular, non-strained yogurt and if so, did it exacerbate your symptoms more than milk?

You said you can’t have nuts or seeds but how about coconut fat, cocoa butter, dairy butter and tallow—do you tolerate any of those? I found fat to be a great way to pack in calories without the discomfort of having too much volume.

You are not insane. I’ve had similar thought’s as you, wanted to end my life, almost went through with it, felt I didn’t have a right to feel the way I did because other people suffer, even felt guilty because I wanted to get better when there are people who never get better, it’s like guilt was the only thing that held me together and it was nothing more than a distraction from facing the real issue. Even food was never the issue, it was just another distraction, a way to channel my anxiety. It gave me a sense of control when faced with things outside of my control, a way to cope, and this goes all the way back to my childhood. There are metabolic influences at play with my anxiety, for example low blood sugar, but childhood traumas such as the molestation and bullying, family dynamics/imprinting and even my highly empathic nature have been the most influential.

The farm where I get my goat’s milk from doesn’t milk the goats again until spring and my craving for fruit skyrockets during the fall and winter so I’ve been averaging at least 3 liters of juice daily, but I’ve consumed a fruit-based diet for at least 15 years—roughly 6 of them as a fruitarian averaging 3000+ calories daily—and never experienced a B1 deficiency—I actually overcame neuropathy symptoms with fruit—so I’m not sure my diet(s) will be useful or even safe for you to gain inspiration from. As it is, I wasn’t even aware that Ray says we need to supplement B1 if we consume a high carb diet. When I was in contact with him, he was aware I was fruitarian and knew my symptoms, but never suggested a B1 supplement so that one is news to me.

I really hope tomorrow is a much better day for you and you’re able to eat enough to feel satisfied. Take care!

 

[Kayaker]

As it is, I wasn’t even aware that Ray says we need to supplement B1 if we consume a high carb diet.

I read something similar, but not sure if that's exactly what he said.

Did you have the neurological symptoms after pushing youself too hard when hypothyroid? I heard people know when they're going to crash because they go into a manic, probably adrenalin-induced frenzy of amphetamine-like productivity before they do.

Peat said after he started treating his hypothyroidism, it was easier to pace himself and not try to do everything at once. So I suppose, having enough usable energy means you're not tense, but relaxed and can take the time to make decisions thoroughly instead of rushing.

 

[Jennifer]

@Kayaker, I developed the neuropathy symptoms when I reintroduced animal protein back in 2010, after having followed a fruitarian diet for 3 years prior. When I went fruitarian again back in 2015, the symptoms went away, and I even regained full sensation in a chronically numb toe that no amount of B12 injections or animal protein helped. The numbness returned when I reintroduced animal protein this last time around (in 2018) and cut back on fruit, and I now have full sensation again since upping my fruit intake in October. It’s bizarre.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Calcium 2,900 mg

But am I consuming too much calcium? In his article, 'Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs respiratory energy', Dr. Peat says:

'When cells are stressed or dying, they take up calcium, which tends to excite the cells at the same time that it inhibits their energy production, intensifying their stress. A cramp or a seizure is an example of uncontrolled cellular excitation. Prolonged excitation and stress contribute to tissue inflammation and fibrosis.'

I fear this is me and perhaps this explains the tightness and cramping in my body. It is fibrosis and I am putting myself at risk of a stroke.

But I also understand that excessive cortisol is associated with vascular calcification. So perhaps milk is okay but my high levels of cortisol are definitely not okay. Am I allowed to continue to drink milk for the ready completeness of nutrients and calories which it gives me? How to do I lower cortisol?

You probably aren't consuming "too much" calcium. In the very same article that you quoted, Peat states- "It is extremely important to realize that calcium deposits in soft tissues become worse when the diet is low in calcium." (emphasis from Peat).

In support of Peat's views, this study showed that serum calcium was higher on Low Calcium diets than on diets with "Normal" Calcium intake, while Bone Mass decreased-

Calcium Deficiency Increases Aromatase And Subsequent Estrogen In Male Rats

A calcium-deficient diet caused decreased bone mineral density and secondary elevation of estrogen in aged male rats-effect of menatetrenone and elcatonin. @haidut You will like this :)

raypeatforum.com

Peat has also talked about using supplemental eggshell calcium if someone has weak bones or is prone to breaks/fractures. He told the story about a baseball player who frequently got broken bones, and fixed this by eating a teaspoon (or maybe a tablespoon?) of eggshell calcium a day for months. He has also suggested up to 5 grams a day is safe, based on the Masai.

Especially if you were undereating and/or have signs of fractures or osteoporosis, you could potentially eat even more calcium for a time.

William Brown ate 5g of Calcium and 4g of Phosphourus a day......

.... during the Extremely Low Fat experiment, based on current day values for skim milk. Ever since Haidut mentioned the "Bioenergetic Burger," I've been thinking more about the importance of the Calcium to Phosphorus ratio. I realized that the Ca:P ratio in the WIlliam Brown experiment would...

raypeatforum.com

Calcium- The Forgotten Diuretic?

I've been getting more interested in the Calcium:Phosphate ratio recently. Peat suggested in a few interviews that phosphates are often used to fatten up livestock, and to add extra water weight to meat. Excess phosphate should have the same effects in humans. Doing some searching around, it...

raypeatforum.com

Some subjects in those studies took up to 17 grams of calcium carbonate a day for a few months.

 

[Gustav3Y]

If one's digestion is good, as in non-fermenting, non-loose stool type, calcium carbonate will cause hard stools in some, sometimes even constipation.
Something one might have to consider, but will have to experience that themselves, based on their gut and their food and liquid intake.
In my experience calcium carbonate in the form of a fizzy pill that you put in water with all kind of ingredients cause loose stool and has nothing to do with pure calcium carbonate powder. I would assume for those with constant constipation probably poses no issues to take those fizzy pills.