Hormonal Profile Causes A Man To Be Very Fat Yet Very Muscular And Strong?

[olive]

Skim/low fat milk actually increases estrogen more than high fat despite what Ray claims.

Exposure to exogenous estrogen through intake of commercial milk produced from pregnant cows. - PubMed - NCBI
“...After the intake of cow milk, serum estrone (E1) and progesterone concentrations significantly increased, and serum luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone and testosterone significantly decreased in men. Urine concentrations of E1, estradiol, estriol and pregnanediol significantly increased in all adults and children.”
“... estrogens in milk were absorbed, and gonadotropin secretion was suppressed, followed by a decrease in testosterone secretion. Sexual maturation of prepubertal children could be affected by the ordinary intake of cow milk.”


Urinary excretion of sex steroid hormone metabolites after consumption of cow milk: a randomized crossover intervention trial
“... Although a very high proportion of the estrogens were conjugated, only small proportions of the androgens and progesterone were conjugated. Milk consumption resulted in a significant increase in urinary estrone (E1) excretion, whereas estradiol (E2), estriol (E3), and 16ketoE2 excretion only increased after semiskimmed milk consumption.“

 

[Risingfire]

My guess is you consume too much fat

 

[TeaRex14]

I didn't see anywhere where the first study specified they used lowfat milk. It just said commercial milk or cow milk. Also I'm highly skeptical of using urine analysis to determine a increase in estrogen. Even serum blood estrogen levels isn't the be all and end all when it comes to measuring estrogen levels. We saw this same exact topic brought up when people were allegedly having their estrogen levels rise from using pregnenolone. Estrogen has to be liberated into the serum for proper excretion from the body.

 

[olive]

Ray has said Dairy is one of the best foods for weight loss and management. He noticed places with good dairy, all the people were slim. Best Calcium. Good Protein. Peat loves Dairy and hates estrogen.

That’s strange because the two countries who suffer the most from obesity Per Capita - Australia and America - consume tons of dairy. I don’t know how well traveled you are but have you spent any time in Thailand? Or Japan? Morocco? Milk is almost impossible to find in these countries, and so are the obese - tourists omitted.

Now I’m not suggesting that it’s as simple as dairy=obesity, I don’t think things in such black and white terms as Ray but if I was overweight I certainly would make avoiding dairy at the top of my priority list. Well maybe third, behind gluten and PUFA.

 

[olive]

I didn't see anywhere where the first study specified they used lowfat milk. It just said commercial milk or cow milk. Also I'm highly skeptical of using urine analysis to determine a increase in estrogen. Even serum blood estrogen levels isn't the be all and end all when it comes to measuring estrogen levels. We saw this same exact topic brought up when people were allegedly having their estrogen levels rise from using pregnenolone. Estrogen has to be liberated into the serum for proper excretion from the body.

Quantitative measurement of endogenous estrogen metabolites, risk-factors for development of breast cancer, in commercial milk products by LC-MS/MS. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[MatheusPN]

I didn't see anywhere where the first study specified they used lowfat milk. It just said commercial milk or cow milk. Also I'm highly skeptical of using urine analysis to determine a increase in estrogen. Even serum blood estrogen levels isn't the be all and end all when it comes to measuring estrogen levels. We saw this same exact topic brought up when people were allegedly having their estrogen levels rise from using pregnenolone. Estrogen has to be liberated into the serum for proper excretion from the body.

Well said! I thought they have done the blood or was another study, now I see they did urine, even if it was the blood test, It would be a fragile study, there is a weak relationship between mainly estrone in the blood and actual levels, it should be at least prolactin test
@tca300 will like it! Dairy is a great food just problematic in quality

 

[Pufas Shmoofas]

Bodybuilders who get freaky lean usually have dairy as part of their diet, with all the protein powders and usually greek yogurt and milk -- usually low fat or skim, they know what's good. Dairy is good and you can get real lean on it.

 

[olive]

Bodybuilders who get freaky lean usually have dairy as part of their diet, with all the protein powders and usually greek yogurt and milk -- usually low fat or skim, they know what's good. Dairy is good and you can get real lean on it.

Maybe amauters. Most top bodybuilders avoid dairy like the plague simply for the sake of digestion - not to mention the estrogen surges which would throw off their anti-aromatase schedule. Pea protein powder is the protein powder of choice in those circles and they’d laugh at the idea of eating yogurt. Rice, meat and fruit/veg is all they eat.

 

[ShotTrue]

Olive is hugely anti milk meanwhile I did GOMAD which is a gallon of whole milk a day and never got fat

 

[Hans]

I'm a 17 year old male and about 5'11''. I'm 285 pounds right now and have always been a very physically strong guy(stronger than all in my grade) even though i've also had a lot of estrogenic fat(large gyno, large hips). I was just reading Han's post about the hormones involved in muscle growth and their antagonists and was wondering what kind of hormonal profile one has to achieve to end up like me.

Big and strong muscles are from androgens and hormones such as IGF-1. The fat is most likely from overeating in general, and the extra fat will promote the aromatase and increase estrogen and prolactin. As you're going through puberty now and might be overeating, your T is probably very high which will result in very high E as well.

Testing your hormones, like already suggested, would actually give you the best idea what's going on and if you want to lower anything or not.
You can also calculate how much calories you are currently consuming to at least know a number. Then you can either reduce it so that your surplus is smaller, note here that I'm not suggesting a deficit.

Next, the quality of your diet is also very important for optimal metabolism and growth.

 

[olive]

Olive is hugely anti milk meanwhile I did GOMAD which is a gallon of whole milk a day and never got fat

I did the same thing a few years back and I never got fat either. But I look and feel significantly better/stronger/leaner after cutting dairy and replacing the calories with kiwi, pineapple, sweet potato, spinach, liver and fish.

 

[BigChad]

Somehow I doubt IGF-1 is the problem here, since bodybuilders inject it to lower bodyfat.
I would focus on lowering estrogen but really you need hormone tests to diagnose

bodybuilders inject insulin as well, i think there are certain things you can take or do that affect whether things like insulin and igf1 go towards muscle growth or fat growth.

Yes he noticed that people were taller and something on the hip in women, just as he said that whole milk can be fattening, he uses low or skimmed milk, in many recent interviews said
About dairy Ray saying it's something good I do not understand why, calcium/ phosphate ratio, minerals etc? Only those things?? I believe it to be a lack of a better or easy and cheap calcium food
I am very curious in what Peat has to say about the studies showing that dairy elevates the estrogen/ progesterone ratio

Edit: Dairy also lowered testosterone in children and in men in one study, I still think it is one of or the best food to achieve a good intake of calcium, that deservers a thread

he mentioned calcium phosphate ratio, aminos, minerals, b vitamins, progesterone, decreases cancer risk for many cancers, possibly increases cancer risk for prostate.

@Ron J @MatheusPN Yeah sorry, I wasn't meaning to hijack the thread or anything. I just saw the topic heading towards dairy's legitimacy as a useful food. I think much of the hype over milk's estrogen content is not properly vetted. The only concern in my opinion would be the added calories from fat. So in case you're trying to lose weight, or you're trying to keep serum free fatty acids to a minimum, you should probably opt for either 1% milk or skim milk. I would still think soy is far more detrimental in terms of estrogens than milk.

Measurement of estrogens in cow's milk, human milk, and dairy products. - PubMed - NCBI
"Equilibrium dialysis of skim milk with hydrogen 3 labeled estrogens showed that 84 to 85% of estrone and estradiol and 61 to 66% of estriol were protein bound. Whey proteins demonstrated a greater binding capacity than casein. This result was confirmed by radioimmunoassay of dry curd cottage cheese and whey. The concentrations in curd were 35, 11, and 6 pg/g. In whey they were 4, 2, and 3 pg/ml. The quantity of active estrogens in dairy products is too low to demonstrate biological activity. Butter was highest with concentrations of 539, 82, and 87 pg/g."

Estrone and 17beta-estradiol concentrations in pasteurized-homogenized milk and commercial dairy products. - PubMed - NCBI
"Estrone concentrations averaged 2.9, 4.2, 5.7, 7.9, 20.4, 54.1 pg/mL, and 118.9 pg/g in skim, 1%, 2%, and whole milks, half-and-half, cream, and butter samples, respectively. 17Beta-estradiol concentrations averaged 0.4, 0.6, 0.9, 1.1, 1.9, 6.0 pg/mL, and 15.8 pg/g in skim, 1%, 2%, whole milks, half-and-half, cream, and butter samples, respectively. The amount of fat in milk significantly affected E(1) and E(2) concentrations in milk. Organic and conventional dairy products did not have substantially different concentrations of E(1) and E(2). Compared with information cited in the literature, concentrations of E(1) and E(2) in bovine milk are small relative to endogenous production rates of E(1) and E(2) in humans."

so whey protein powder would be more estrogenic than whole milk even? like 100g whey protein a day?

 

[baccheion]

bodybuilders inject insulin as well, i think there are certain things you can take or do that affect whether things like insulin and igf1 go towards muscle growth or fat growth.



he mentioned calcium phosphate ratio, aminos, minerals, b vitamins, progesterone, decreases cancer risk for many cancers, possibly increases cancer risk for prostate.



so whey protein powder would be more estrogenic than whole milk even? like 100g whey protein a day?

Insulin pushes blood sugar into cells. Insulin resistance leads to fat gain. IGF-1 is associated with HGH and increased muscle mass.

Higher IGF-1 = more muscle mass (ie, blood sugar and water pushed into muscle). Some could say it's the increase in IGF-1 after lifting that shuttles nutrients into muscle.

Some taking larger amounts of DHEA or HGH enhancers notice lost fat mass and more lean mass. Leads me to somewhat believe IGF-1 goes up when insulin doesn't. Supported by HGH increasing when insulin is lower and also triggering synthesis of IGF-1. Would this mean protein + fat lead to mass gain (relying on glycogen to get cholesterol) and carbs lead to energy to maintain body temperature?

 

[BigChad]

Insulin pushes blood sugar into cells. Insulin resistance leads to fat gain. IGF-1 is associated with HGH and increased muscle mass.

Higher IGF-1 = more muscle mass (ie, blood sugar and water pushed into muscle). Some could say it's the increase in IGF-1 after lifting that shuttles nutrients into muscle.

Some taking larger amounts of DHEA or HGH enhancers notice less fat mass and more lean mass. Leads me to somewhat believe IGF-1 goes up when insulin doesn't. Supported by HGH increasing when insulin is lower and also triggering synthesis of IGF-1. Would this mean protein + fat lead to mass gain (relying on glycogen to get cholesterol) and carbs lead to energy to maintain body temperature?

so IG1 would never cause an increase in fat mass, only lean mass right.
what would be the best ways to maximize igf1 via diet and supplementation, without supplementing dhea.
high protein diet with minimal pufa, good amount of saturated fat, 1:1 calcium to phosphate ratio, magnesium, b vitamins, coconut oil?

 

[baccheion]

so IG1 would never cause an increase in fat mass, only lean mass right.
what would be the best ways to maximize igf1 via diet and supplementation, without supplementing dhea.
high protein diet with minimal pufa, good amount of saturated fat, 1:1 calcium to phosphate ratio, magnesium, b vitamins, coconut oil?

Increase IGF-1 by increasing the amplitude of HGH spikes, especially the one during sleep. Increasing IGF-1 directly can serve as negative feedback, lowering HGH.

Infrequent and strong pulses of HGH work better in males. Even if injecting HGH or using MK-677, I'd likely only do so every other day.

 

[Hgreen56]

Big and strong muscles are from androgens and hormones such as IGF-1. The fat is most likely from overeating in general, and the extra fat will promote the aromatase and increase estrogen and prolactin. As you're going through puberty now and might be overeating, your T is probably very high which will result in very high E as well.

Testing your hormones, like already suggested, would actually give you the best idea what's going on and if you want to lower anything or not.
You can also calculate how much calories you are currently consuming to at least know a number. Then you can either reduce it so that your surplus is smaller, note here that I'm not suggesting a deficit.

Next, the quality of your diet is also very important for optimal metabolism and growth.

if someone use TRT, he automatically increase estrogen to with this stuff?

 

[Hans]

if someone use TRT, he automatically increase estrogen to with this stuff?

Maybe, maybe not. Let's say aromatase converts 5% of T to E. So with low T, he'll have low E, but with high T, he'll have more E as a results. But this can differ between individuals, so it's good to have it tested.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Pathological insulin sensitivity?