Hormonal Profile Causes A Man To Be Very Fat Yet Very Muscular And Strong?

[Cdmiller2939]

I'm a 17 year old male and about 5'11''. I'm 285 pounds right now and have always been a very physically strong guy(stronger than all in my grade) even though i've also had a lot of estrogenic fat(large gyno, large hips). I was just reading Han's post about the hormones involved in muscle growth and their antagonists and was wondering what kind of hormonal profile one has to achieve to end up like me.

 

[olive]

High IGF-1. Potential risk factor for diabetes.

 

[Cdmiller2939]

Do you know possible causes of high igf-1 and ways to lower it?

 

[Ron J]

You wont know how much of that is actual muscle until you lose body fat. Also, fat helps me lift more. Although I've never been high enough body fat to have a large belly, even those small amounts of core fat helped me stabilize and lift more, specially lower body lifts. When I became leaner, despite being lighter and not losing muscle, I immediately noticed an instability when deadlifting, which was due to less fat helping me stabilize, so my core muscles had to stabilize that weight.

 

[Ron J]

Also the environment we live in is very estrogenic and the low quality, highly processed foods don't help, so you could have high androgens that may be turning to estrogen, which is why you may show more estrogenic side effects than other lower androgen males.
Within your age group it may be more problematic to cut weight, but perhaps it wont affect you much if it's fast, followed by some lifting to change muscle mass to fat ratio. You should ask a qualified specialist.
Edit: By "fast" I don't mean dropping the most weight in the shortest time possible, I mean just a short cut of several pounds only.

 

[olive]

Do you know possible causes of high igf-1 and ways to lower it?

Exogenous IGF-1 can be obtained via foods, namely dairy. Especially if you live in the US, or elsewhere, in which rBGH is commonly injected into dairy cows - shown to increase IGF-1 levels 400x.

Endogenous IGF-1 is produced after large doses of glucose in a small time period.

If I were you I would eliminate dairy from my diet and spread sugar consumption throughout the day.
I’d also do max effort sprinting for 10 seconds, rest for 50 seconds then repeat for a total of 3 sprints - twice a week.

Try to avoid lowering your caloric intake too drastically as it may damper your development; ie height.

Instead focus on being more active and look at natural ways to lower excessive estrogen - vitamin e/k/zinc:copper/etc.

 

[baccheion]

A comprehensive hormone panel would reveal your profile. You can order one from Life Extension's website if your doctor won't approve.

 

[xeliex]

Exogenous IGF-1 can be obtained via foods, namely dairy. Especially if you live in the US, or elsewhere, in which rBGH is commonly injected into dairy cows - shown to increase IGF-1 levels 400x.

Endogenous IGF-1 is produced after large doses of glucose in a small time period.

If I were you I would eliminate dairy from my diet and spread sugar consumption throughout the day.
I’d also do max effort sprinting for 10 seconds, rest for 50 seconds then repeat for a total of 3 sprints - twice a week.

Try to avoid lowering your caloric intake too drastically as it may damper your development; ie height.

Instead focus on being more active and look at natural ways to lower excessive estrogen - vitamin e/k/zinc:copper/etc.

All organic milk in the US have milk from cows that are were never injected with rbGH.

Moreover, the majority of non-organic milk farms also do not use it. Few farms still do.

Even in the milk of those that were injected with rbGH, it won't elevate your IGF-1 like it does in the cow. By the time the molecule is pasteurized the majority of any trace hormone is deactivated. If not, the HCl will render it useless.

Dairy is an affordable source of nutrients and while it's not perfect, let's not spread phobias around it.

Thanks.

 

[olive]

All organic milk in the US have milk from cows that are were never injected with rbGH.

Moreover, the majority of non-organic milk farms also do not use it. Few farms still do.

Even in the milk of those that were injected with rbGH, it won't elevate your IGF-1 like it does in the cow. By the time the molecule is pasteurized the majority of any trace hormone is deactivated. If not, the HCl will render it useless.

Dairy is an affordable source of nutrients and while it's not perfect, let's not spread phobias around it.

Thanks.

Dairy is also high in methionine, a powerful growth factor. It also increases prolactin via the opioid receptor. And low fat dairy reliably increases estrogen in studies on humans. All pointing to dairy being one of the most important foods to avoid (after gluten and PUFA) for optimal health - and especially for weight loss.

 

[Pufas Shmoofas]

Dairy is also high in methionine, a powerful growth factor. It also increases prolactin via the opioid receptor. And low fat dairy reliably increases estrogen in studies on humans. All pointing to dairy being one of the most important foods to avoid (after gluten and PUFA) for optimal health - and especially for weight loss.

Ray has said Dairy is one of the best foods for weight loss and management. He noticed places with good dairy, all the people were slim. Best Calcium. Good Protein. Peat loves Dairy and hates estrogen.

 

[MatheusPN]

Ray has said Dairy is one of the best foods for weight loss and management. He noticed places with good dairy, all the people were slim. Best Calcium. Good Protein. Peat loves Dairy and hates estrogen.

Yes he noticed that people were taller and something on the hip in women, just as he said that whole milk can be fattening, he uses low or skimmed milk, in many recent interviews said
About dairy Ray saying it's something good I do not understand why, calcium/ phosphate ratio, minerals etc? Only those things?? I believe it to be a lack of a better or easy and cheap calcium food
I am very curious in what Peat has to say about the studies showing that dairy elevates the estrogen/ progesterone ratio

Edit: Dairy also lowered testosterone in children and in men in one study, I still think it is one of or the best food to achieve a good intake of calcium, that deservers a thread

 

[Pufas Shmoofas]

I think he said other things in dairy compensate for the little estrogen it has. If you only look at certain aspects of dairy, I'm sure you can make a biased case that it is a bad food, but Ray has looked at it in it's entirety and says its one of the best foods we can consume. Not perfect, but real good for most.

 

[ShotTrue]

Somehow I doubt IGF-1 is the problem here, since bodybuilders inject it to lower bodyfat.
I would focus on lowering estrogen but really you need hormone tests to diagnose

 

[ShotTrue]

It sounds like high estrogen though, I'd look for natural ways to lower it like olive mentioned with the vitamins. Also focusing on cutting bodyfat

 

[outtherebrother]

Sounds like oveating leading to fat gain leading to increased estrogen. Go on a 300-500 calorie deficit until your body fat is between 10-15%.

 

[TeaRex14]

Dairy is good, the hormones are stored in the fat. So go lowfat when wanting to avoid estrogen. However, even with whole milk, there's enough progesterone in it to counter the negative effect of estrogen. I don't think dairy is even remotely a concern for otherwise healthy people and/or people who aren't lactose intolerant. The majority of centenarian cultures around the world are dairy consumers.

 

[Ron J]

Dairy is good, the hormones are stored in the fat. So go lowfat when wanting to avoid estrogen. However, even with whole milk, there's enough progesterone in it to counter the negative effect of estrogen. I don't think dairy is even remotely a concern for otherwise healthy people and/or people who aren't lactose intolerant. The majority of centenarian cultures around the world are dairy consumers.

If I remember correctly, I think Travis mentioned that much of the estrogen is bound to the protein. And has Ray Peat discussed the opioid effect?

 

[peatforever2358]

Brother I can't tell you how you got there via hormones, granted genetics and calories are a big part of that. I can tell you how you got fat though by mixing carbohydrates and fat together, maybe even pufa in that fat would make that weight gain more possible. I want you to take take a look at my master thread, in relation to Ray Peat and the bodybuilding world particularly Stan Efferding, and other similar diets like IIFYM that focus on nutrient timing. Even vegans and keto and carnivores do this without know a damn about it and the demonize one macro nutrient of the other, but they more or less get way from fatty and carbohydrate rich foods like fast food, and take out, and going out to eat. There's a lot that has been discussed about nutrition, testosterone, thyroid disruptors and emf's, and it's preferred to read it on a laptop, zoom, with a black background plug in, in your browser like mozilla.

Bodybuilding To Vegan To Carnivore To The Vertical Diet & Ray Peat & MORE

 

[MatheusPN]

Dairy is good, the hormones are stored in the fat. So go lowfat when wanting to avoid estrogen. However, even with whole milk, there's enough progesterone in it to counter the negative effect of estrogen. I don't think dairy is even remotely a concern for otherwise healthy people and/or people who aren't lactose intolerant. The majority of centenarian cultures around the world are dairy consumers.

Fat soluble or water soluble hormones, who stays in what type? Studies showed that lowfat increases more than full
The people with the world’s healthiest hearts, Tsimane and Okinawan don't
We, including op, are hijacking, this is cool.

Edit: Tranquil and thanks @TeaRex14, very curious study
I think you already seen but: Muscle Building. All I experienced is that milk is very quality dependent

 

[TeaRex14]

@Ron J @MatheusPN Yeah sorry, I wasn't meaning to hijack the thread or anything. I just saw the topic heading towards dairy's legitimacy as a useful food. I think much of the hype over milk's estrogen content is not properly vetted. The only concern in my opinion would be the added calories from fat. So in case you're trying to lose weight, or you're trying to keep serum free fatty acids to a minimum, you should probably opt for either 1% milk or skim milk. I would still think soy is far more detrimental in terms of estrogens than milk.

Measurement of estrogens in cow's milk, human milk, and dairy products. - PubMed - NCBI
"Equilibrium dialysis of skim milk with hydrogen 3 labeled estrogens showed that 84 to 85% of estrone and estradiol and 61 to 66% of estriol were protein bound. Whey proteins demonstrated a greater binding capacity than casein. This result was confirmed by radioimmunoassay of dry curd cottage cheese and whey. The concentrations in curd were 35, 11, and 6 pg/g. In whey they were 4, 2, and 3 pg/ml. The quantity of active estrogens in dairy products is too low to demonstrate biological activity. Butter was highest with concentrations of 539, 82, and 87 pg/g."

Estrone and 17beta-estradiol concentrations in pasteurized-homogenized milk and commercial dairy products. - PubMed - NCBI
"Estrone concentrations averaged 2.9, 4.2, 5.7, 7.9, 20.4, 54.1 pg/mL, and 118.9 pg/g in skim, 1%, 2%, and whole milks, half-and-half, cream, and butter samples, respectively. 17Beta-estradiol concentrations averaged 0.4, 0.6, 0.9, 1.1, 1.9, 6.0 pg/mL, and 15.8 pg/g in skim, 1%, 2%, whole milks, half-and-half, cream, and butter samples, respectively. The amount of fat in milk significantly affected E(1) and E(2) concentrations in milk. Organic and conventional dairy products did not have substantially different concentrations of E(1) and E(2). Compared with information cited in the literature, concentrations of E(1) and E(2) in bovine milk are small relative to endogenous production rates of E(1) and E(2) in humans."