High-intelligence Not Unique To Humans, Is Due To Extended Childhood

haidut

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A great new study that confirms many of Peat's writings on the subject. Namely, that it is the brain to body mass ratio that largely determines the intelligence of an organism. Moreover, good nutrition and extended childhood are the main factors in determining the intellectual development of an organism. The latter contributes to intelligence by allowing the organism to spend more of its lifetime in an unrestricted, playful, stimulating environment where things are done because they are fun and not because they are "profitable" or "practical". As one of the study author says, if we judge animals by those criteria of extended childhood and brain/body ratio we discover that quite a few other species, and especially some birds, can probably match our intelligence. All the more so considering ours is on the decline due to the current toxic environments we live in.

The study also underscores another factor crucial for intelligence - that extended childhood is only possible through good parenting and parental investment in the lives of the offspring. This statement is sacrilegious to utter in a modern society. It is considered oppressive, patriarchal, and incompatible with the "career development" of any young person (especially a female). The message young people get these days from all directions is quite uniform and clear - children are a toxic drag on a parent's progress and should be "disposed off" as soon as possible to the care of an evil, inhumane, expensive, damaging, and incompetent day-care and education industry. In light of the treatment children have been getting from their parents for the last 2-3 decades, it is hardly surprising the world is awash with imbecilic, twisted, creatures that hate both the world around them and themselves.

Like humans, these big-brained birds may owe their smarts to long childhoods
Like humans, these big-brained birds may owe their smarts to long childhoods
"...Human beings typically don’t leave the nest until well into our teenage years—a relatively rare strategy among animals. But corvids—a group of birds that includes jays, ravens, and crows—also spend a lot of time under their parents’ wings. Now, in a parallel to humans, researchers have found that ongoing tutelage by patient parents may explain how corvids have managed to achieve their smarts. Corvids are large, big-brained birds that often live in intimate social groups of related and unrelated individuals. They are known to be intelligent—capable of using tools, recognizing human faces, and even understanding physics—and some researchers believe crows may rival apes for smarts. Meanwhile, humans continue to grow their big brains and build up their cognitive abilities during childhood, as their parents feed and protect them. “Humans are characterized by this extended childhood that affects our intelligence, but we can’t be the only ones,” says Natalie Uomini, a cognitive scientist at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History. But few researchers have studied the impact of parenting throughout the juvenile years on intelligence in nonhumans."

"...To study the link between parental care and intelligence in birds, Uomini and her team created a database detailing the life history of thousands of species, including more than 120 corvids. Compared with other birds, they found corvids spend more time in the nest before fledging, more days feeding their offspring as adults, and more of their life living among family. The results, reported last week in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, also confirm corvids have unusually large brains compared with many other birds. Birds need to be light for flight, but a raven’s brain accounts for almost 2% of its body mass, a value similar to humans. The researchers next took to the field to study how easily wild birds can solve novel tasks, a more direct measurement of cognition. Uomini and her colleagues have spent years studying Siberian jays and New Caledonian crows, two corvid species with extended childhoods that are known to be smart: The crows use sticks to fish grubs from logs (see video, above), while jays can solve food puzzles and recognize rare predators."

"...Young birds learned these tasks more quickly by watching their parents, the team found. Adults were quite tolerant, allowing juveniles to practice and supplementing their food while they learned. Young crows and jays often remained with their parents for up to 4 years—the equivalent of about 2 decades in human years—growing more skilled at mentally challenging tasks all the while. The experiments strongly suggest parenting helps shape bigger brains, says study co-author Michael Griesser, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Konstanz. It’s costly to grow a large brain—our own requires 20% of our daily calories—and juveniles start their learning early. “The only way you can do that is through parental investment”—providing an example and feeding juveniles as their brains grow, he says."

"...Other researchers studying cognition also welcome the results. Ben Ashton, a behavioral ecologist at the University of Western Australia, Perth, says members of the field have “often been at loggerheads” as they seek to identify the most important drivers of cognitive evolution. “What’s interesting about this study is that it’s compatible with other existing ideas,” Ashton says, including the hypothesis that the cognitive demands of group living helped spur larger brains in humans. For her part, Uomini thinks too much credit has been given to humans “as the pinnacle of evolution and intelligence.” Animals such as corvids have evolved independently to be both intelligent and attentive caregivers, suggesting the human condition is not so unique. By studying other animals, she says, we can gain “insights into the evolutionary conditions that helped our big brains and our intelligence to evolve.”
 

lvysaur

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The biggest lie in evolution and anthropology is that humans are uniquely smart.

Rather, humans dominate the world because of precise language communication, which immortalizes ideas. Writing immortalizes them even further.

So a group of lucky and smart whales might impart some innovations (bubble net feeding) to their podmates, in similar fashion to a human. But, a human can impart this knowledge on his own, and much faster and more actively, rather than relying on chance to have all the other whales positioned in the correct way.

The truly human quality is precise language, which almost acts as a "silver bullet" all on its own. Plenty of other animals are smart, have long memories, larger brains, etc. Birds in particular have far more efficient brain architecture, we may be obsolete compared to them. However our "built up" power and capability prevents them from proceeding further. In a mass extinction, I would say birds would end up taking over the world, just like mammals did from reptiles, and humans did from Laurasian mammals.

Of course, the brain-enhancing benefits of neoteny and delayed maturation are well known.
 

lvysaur

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My view of evolution is one of "efficiency" vs. "privilege".

Certain organisms are dominant or "privileged". IE: Dinosaurs during Cretaceous, Laurasian mammals recently, Humans now.
These "privileged" animals have, by virtue of their dominance, grown accustomed to and evolved higher energy expenditures. (genetically or epigenetically whatever you prefer) The peak of privilege is to have a big body and many offspring (these are obviously related traits, one begets the other). Related , though not identical to "r selection"

"Efficiency" is the opposite. Shrinking smaller to cope with a lower calorie diet. Developing tiny neurons to pack more computing power in the same brain size (like a raven/bird). Investing more care in your child because you need to for survival. Similar but still different from "K selection".

You'll notice over time that the dominant organisms have become smaller bodied, with larger brains. Start with dinosaurs, biggest land animals known. Replaced by small bodied, large brained, parental investment mammals, (bison/tigers). These mammals were recently replaced by even smaller bodied, larger brained, more parental humans.

Energy expenditure via large brain, or offspring investment, or really any energy that is not invested into maximizing reproductive number, can be considered an "efficiency".

Animals become successively more "efficient" to cope with harsh conditions. After extinction events, these animals become "the new norm", and inherit the earth, eventually transitioning into "privileged" animals themselves. But because they are already large-brained, they never get the opportunity to grow quite as big as the extinct predecessors--because they would be outcompeted by smaller bodied, larger brained members of their own species.

A small, smart, caring mammal is inferior to a big dinosaur only so long as the dinosaur is big. If a comet hits earth and food plummets, and the T-rexes/Brontosauri die, the small caring mammal is superior to the small selfish dinosaur.
 
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LeeLemonoil

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Regarding „metabolism and extended youth“: It was for a time hypothesized in scientific circles that T3 was the Human analog to insect „youth hormone“ (that prevents metamorphosis)
Maybe there is something to it.
 

cjm

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Animals become successively more "efficient" to cope with harsh conditions. After extinction events, these animals become "the new norm", and inherit the earth, eventually transitioning into "privileged" animals themselves. But because they are already large-brained, they never get the opportunity to grow quite as big as the extinct predecessors--because they would be outcompeted by smaller bodied, larger brained members of their own species.

Love these thoughts. Maybe you can help me pursue an angle I've been thinking about the past few years, namely, are you keen on any of the theories of recent catastrophes on Earth? The names of the researchers are escaping me now, some of them have been suspected to be controlled opposition and therefore taken with a grain of salt, but I'm talking about the capture of the inner solar system planets by Saturn.

I posted earlier today in response to a comment about the millennia-long tradition of robber baronship (robber baronhood?) and have always wondered if our predecessors that survived those catastrophic events are evolved to be parasitic, either through natural selection and/or privilege, to borrow your term. Can parasitism, if you accept my notion that so many people in positions of power are parasites, be considered evolved if it can be argued it is efficient? I guess I want to try and explain to myself using your evolution paradigm why humanity is in the state it is these days.

Just wanted to toss some thoughts your way and see if they resonate.

Edit: I forgot to take into account the precise language part of your argument. Gonna spend some time thinking about that.
 

lampofred

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The biggest lie in evolution and anthropology is that humans are uniquely smart.

Rather, humans dominate the world because of precise language communication, which immortalizes ideas. Writing immortalizes them even further.

So a group of lucky and smart whales might impart some innovations (bubble net feeding) to their podmates, in similar fashion to a human. But, a human can impart this knowledge on his own, and much faster and more actively, rather than relying on chance to have all the other whales positioned in the correct way.

The truly human quality is precise language, which almost acts as a "silver bullet" all on its own. Plenty of other animals are smart, have long memories, larger brains, etc. Birds in particular have far more efficient brain architecture, we may be obsolete compared to them. However our "built up" power and capability prevents them from proceeding further. In a mass extinction, I would say birds would end up taking over the world, just like mammals did from reptiles, and humans did from Laurasian mammals.

Of course, the brain-enhancing benefits of neoteny and delayed maturation are well known.

My view of evolution is one of "efficiency" vs. "privilege".

Certain organisms are dominant or "privileged". IE: Dinosaurs during Cretaceous, Laurasian mammals recently, Humans now.
These "privileged" animals have, by virtue of their dominance, grown accustomed to and evolved higher energy expenditures. (genetically or epigenetically whatever you prefer) The peak of privilege is to have a big body and many offspring (these are obviously related traits, one begets the other). Related , though not identical to "r selection"

"Efficiency" is the opposite. Shrinking smaller to cope with a lower calorie diet. Developing tiny neurons to pack more computing power in the same brain size (like a raven/bird). Investing more care in your child because you need to for survival. Similar but still different from "K selection".

You'll notice over time that the dominant organisms have become smaller bodied, with larger brains. Start with dinosaurs, biggest land animals known. Replaced by small bodied, large brained, parental investment mammals, (bison/tigers). These mammals were recently replaced by even smaller bodied, larger brained, more parental humans.

Energy expenditure via large brain, or offspring investment, or really any energy that is not invested into maximizing reproductive number, can be considered an "efficiency".

Animals become successively more "efficient" to cope with harsh conditions. After extinction events, these animals become "the new norm", and inherit the earth, eventually transitioning into "privileged" animals themselves. But because they are already large-brained, they never get the opportunity to grow quite as big as the extinct predecessors--because they would be outcompeted by smaller bodied, larger brained members of their own species.

A small, smart, caring mammal is inferior to a big dinosaur only so long as the dinosaur is big. If a comet hits earth and food plummets, and the T-rexes/Brontosauri die, the small caring mammal is superior to the small selfish dinosaur.

Very interesting theory. Love these types of posts that find new patterns in our complex world.
 

Recoen

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Love these thoughts. Maybe you can help me pursue an angle I've been thinking about the past few years, namely, are you keen on any of the theories of recent catastrophes on Earth? The names of the researchers are escaping me now, some of them have been suspected to be controlled opposition and therefore taken with a grain of salt, but I'm talking about the capture of the inner solar system planets by Saturn.

I posted earlier today in response to a comment about the millennia-long tradition of robber baronship (robber baronhood?) and have always wondered if our predecessors that survived those catastrophic events are evolved to be parasitic, either through natural selection and/or privilege, to borrow your term. Can parasitism, if you accept my notion that so many people in positions of power are parasites, be considered evolved if it can be argued it is efficient? I guess I want to try and explain to myself using your evolution paradigm why humanity is in the state it is these days.

Just wanted to toss some thoughts your way and see if they resonate.

Edit: I forgot to take into account the precise language part of your argument. Gonna spend some time thinking about that.

Have you seen any of the suspicious observers YouTube videos discussing solar micronovas?
 

Recoen

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A great new study that confirms many of Peat's writings on the subject. Namely, that it is the brain to body mass ratio that largely determines the intelligence of an organism. Moreover, good nutrition and extended childhood are the main factors in determining the intellectual development of an organism. The latter contributes to intelligence by allowing the organism to spend more of its lifetime in an unrestricted, playful, stimulating environment where things are done because they are fun and not because they are "profitable" or "practical". As one of the study author says, if we judge animals by those criteria of extended childhood and brain/body ratio we discover that quite a few other species, and especially some birds, can probably match our intelligence. All the more so considering ours is on the decline due to the current toxic environments we live in.

The study also underscores another factor crucial for intelligence - that extended childhood is only possible through good parenting and parental investment in the lives of the offspring. This statement is sacrilegious to utter in a modern society. It is considered oppressive, patriarchal, and incompatible with the "career development" of any young person (especially a female). The message young people get these days from all directions is quite uniform and clear - children are a toxic drag on a parent's progress and should be "disposed off" as soon as possible to the care of an evil, inhumane, expensive, damaging, and incompetent day-care and education industry. In light of the treatment children have been getting from their parents for the last 2-3 decades, it is hardly surprising the world is awash with imbecilic, twisted, creatures that hate both the world around them and themselves.

Like humans, these big-brained birds may owe their smarts to long childhoods
Like humans, these big-brained birds may owe their smarts to long childhoods
"...Human beings typically don’t leave the nest until well into our teenage years—a relatively rare strategy among animals. But corvids—a group of birds that includes jays, ravens, and crows—also spend a lot of time under their parents’ wings. Now, in a parallel to humans, researchers have found that ongoing tutelage by patient parents may explain how corvids have managed to achieve their smarts. Corvids are large, big-brained birds that often live in intimate social groups of related and unrelated individuals. They are known to be intelligent—capable of using tools, recognizing human faces, and even understanding physics—and some researchers believe crows may rival apes for smarts. Meanwhile, humans continue to grow their big brains and build up their cognitive abilities during childhood, as their parents feed and protect them. “Humans are characterized by this extended childhood that affects our intelligence, but we can’t be the only ones,” says Natalie Uomini, a cognitive scientist at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History. But few researchers have studied the impact of parenting throughout the juvenile years on intelligence in nonhumans."

"...To study the link between parental care and intelligence in birds, Uomini and her team created a database detailing the life history of thousands of species, including more than 120 corvids. Compared with other birds, they found corvids spend more time in the nest before fledging, more days feeding their offspring as adults, and more of their life living among family. The results, reported last week in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, also confirm corvids have unusually large brains compared with many other birds. Birds need to be light for flight, but a raven’s brain accounts for almost 2% of its body mass, a value similar to humans. The researchers next took to the field to study how easily wild birds can solve novel tasks, a more direct measurement of cognition. Uomini and her colleagues have spent years studying Siberian jays and New Caledonian crows, two corvid species with extended childhoods that are known to be smart: The crows use sticks to fish grubs from logs (see video, above), while jays can solve food puzzles and recognize rare predators."

"...Young birds learned these tasks more quickly by watching their parents, the team found. Adults were quite tolerant, allowing juveniles to practice and supplementing their food while they learned. Young crows and jays often remained with their parents for up to 4 years—the equivalent of about 2 decades in human years—growing more skilled at mentally challenging tasks all the while. The experiments strongly suggest parenting helps shape bigger brains, says study co-author Michael Griesser, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Konstanz. It’s costly to grow a large brain—our own requires 20% of our daily calories—and juveniles start their learning early. “The only way you can do that is through parental investment”—providing an example and feeding juveniles as their brains grow, he says."

"...Other researchers studying cognition also welcome the results. Ben Ashton, a behavioral ecologist at the University of Western Australia, Perth, says members of the field have “often been at loggerheads” as they seek to identify the most important drivers of cognitive evolution. “What’s interesting about this study is that it’s compatible with other existing ideas,” Ashton says, including the hypothesis that the cognitive demands of group living helped spur larger brains in humans. For her part, Uomini thinks too much credit has been given to humans “as the pinnacle of evolution and intelligence.” Animals such as corvids have evolved independently to be both intelligent and attentive caregivers, suggesting the human condition is not so unique. By studying other animals, she says, we can gain “insights into the evolutionary conditions that helped our big brains and our intelligence to evolve.”

Progression to adulthood seems to be extending with many not acting like adults well into their late 20s and even 30s. I do think childhood comes to a complete stop once children go to school. Another reason to home school. At what point would you shift your child from play and self directed learning to internships, etc?
 

cjm

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Have you seen any of the suspicious observers YouTube videos discussing solar micronovas?

Ya know, I like Ben a lot and used to follow him when I was used YouTube as a source of diversion and research, but I haven't heard the mention of solar micronovas. I'll need to check it out. Miles Mathis (mentioned here) does science research that covers solar cycles and planetary alignments and their correlation with solar flares/sunspots, and has mentioned catastrophism in passing, I believe, but again, no mention of micronovas. I generally trust SO's opinions in his area of expertise. Anything of note to mention here before I dig in?
 

Recoen

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Ya know, I like Ben a lot and used to follow him when I was used YouTube as a source of diversion and research, but I haven't heard the mention of solar micronovas. I'll need to check it out. Miles Mathis (mentioned here) does science research that covers solar cycles and planetary alignments and their correlation with solar flares/sunspots, and has mentioned catastrophism in passing, I believe, but again, no mention of micronovas. I generally trust SO's opinions in his area of expertise. Anything of note to mention here before I dig in?

Mathis’ arguments are really interesting especially about fundamental physics. I have asked some of my grad profs about some. They have no clue and can’t find the error so... ‍♀️

Here is the 2020 playlist, I would start there:
Earth Catastrophe Cycle | 2020 & Beyond - YouTube
 

haidut

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Regarding „metabolism and extended youth“: It was for a time hypothesized in scientific circles that T3 was the Human analog to insect „youth hormone“ (that prevents metamorphosis)
Maybe there is something to it.

It certainly seems to be true in Bonobos - our closest non-human relatives. So, I don't see a reason why it would not be true in humans too.
Bonobos Do Not Age Due To High Thyroid Hormone
 

Regina

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A great new study that confirms many of Peat's writings on the subject. Namely, that it is the brain to body mass ratio that largely determines the intelligence of an organism. Moreover, good nutrition and extended childhood are the main factors in determining the intellectual development of an organism. The latter contributes to intelligence by allowing the organism to spend more of its lifetime in an unrestricted, playful, stimulating environment where things are done because they are fun and not because they are "profitable" or "practical". As one of the study author says, if we judge animals by those criteria of extended childhood and brain/body ratio we discover that quite a few other species, and especially some birds, can probably match our intelligence. All the more so considering ours is on the decline due to the current toxic environments we live in.

The study also underscores another factor crucial for intelligence - that extended childhood is only possible through good parenting and parental investment in the lives of the offspring. This statement is sacrilegious to utter in a modern society. It is considered oppressive, patriarchal, and incompatible with the "career development" of any young person (especially a female). The message young people get these days from all directions is quite uniform and clear - children are a toxic drag on a parent's progress and should be "disposed off" as soon as possible to the care of an evil, inhumane, expensive, damaging, and incompetent day-care and education industry. In light of the treatment children have been getting from their parents for the last 2-3 decades, it is hardly surprising the world is awash with imbecilic, twisted, creatures that hate both the world around them and themselves.

Like humans, these big-brained birds may owe their smarts to long childhoods
Like humans, these big-brained birds may owe their smarts to long childhoods
"...Human beings typically don’t leave the nest until well into our teenage years—a relatively rare strategy among animals. But corvids—a group of birds that includes jays, ravens, and crows—also spend a lot of time under their parents’ wings. Now, in a parallel to humans, researchers have found that ongoing tutelage by patient parents may explain how corvids have managed to achieve their smarts. Corvids are large, big-brained birds that often live in intimate social groups of related and unrelated individuals. They are known to be intelligent—capable of using tools, recognizing human faces, and even understanding physics—and some researchers believe crows may rival apes for smarts. Meanwhile, humans continue to grow their big brains and build up their cognitive abilities during childhood, as their parents feed and protect them. “Humans are characterized by this extended childhood that affects our intelligence, but we can’t be the only ones,” says Natalie Uomini, a cognitive scientist at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History. But few researchers have studied the impact of parenting throughout the juvenile years on intelligence in nonhumans."

"...To study the link between parental care and intelligence in birds, Uomini and her team created a database detailing the life history of thousands of species, including more than 120 corvids. Compared with other birds, they found corvids spend more time in the nest before fledging, more days feeding their offspring as adults, and more of their life living among family. The results, reported last week in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, also confirm corvids have unusually large brains compared with many other birds. Birds need to be light for flight, but a raven’s brain accounts for almost 2% of its body mass, a value similar to humans. The researchers next took to the field to study how easily wild birds can solve novel tasks, a more direct measurement of cognition. Uomini and her colleagues have spent years studying Siberian jays and New Caledonian crows, two corvid species with extended childhoods that are known to be smart: The crows use sticks to fish grubs from logs (see video, above), while jays can solve food puzzles and recognize rare predators."

"...Young birds learned these tasks more quickly by watching their parents, the team found. Adults were quite tolerant, allowing juveniles to practice and supplementing their food while they learned. Young crows and jays often remained with their parents for up to 4 years—the equivalent of about 2 decades in human years—growing more skilled at mentally challenging tasks all the while. The experiments strongly suggest parenting helps shape bigger brains, says study co-author Michael Griesser, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Konstanz. It’s costly to grow a large brain—our own requires 20% of our daily calories—and juveniles start their learning early. “The only way you can do that is through parental investment”—providing an example and feeding juveniles as their brains grow, he says."

"...Other researchers studying cognition also welcome the results. Ben Ashton, a behavioral ecologist at the University of Western Australia, Perth, says members of the field have “often been at loggerheads” as they seek to identify the most important drivers of cognitive evolution. “What’s interesting about this study is that it’s compatible with other existing ideas,” Ashton says, including the hypothesis that the cognitive demands of group living helped spur larger brains in humans. For her part, Uomini thinks too much credit has been given to humans “as the pinnacle of evolution and intelligence.” Animals such as corvids have evolved independently to be both intelligent and attentive caregivers, suggesting the human condition is not so unique. By studying other animals, she says, we can gain “insights into the evolutionary conditions that helped our big brains and our intelligence to evolve.”
Love these findings.

It makes me think of this man I met the other day. I took an instant quiet dislike to him while he was holding forth to some others in the room. And then when he boasted loudly that his 25 yr old daughter has already done two tours in Iraq and her squad recently had just barely escaped a bombing, it confirmed what a lousy father he was.
 

cjm

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haidut

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Love these findings.

It makes me think of this man I met the other day. I took an instant quiet dislike to him while he was holding forth to some others in the room. And then when he boasted loudly that his 25 yr old daughter has already done two tours in Iraq and her squad recently had just barely escaped a bombing, it confirmed what a lousy father he was.

I hope she comes back home safely...and he comes to his senses. Nothing sadder than the sight of a grieving father after having realized he is the reason his child signed up to perish in a pointless "war".
 

Regina

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Kram

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Mathis’ arguments are really interesting especially about fundamental physics. I have asked some of my grad profs about some. They have no clue and can’t find the error so... ‍♀️

Here is the 2020 playlist, I would start there:
Earth Catastrophe Cycle | 2020 & Beyond - YouTube
This is terrifying. I just started reading Magicians of the Gods which details a global catastrophe around 10,800 BC...seems to be in line with this video. Sigh...

"A sequel to Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods (1995), the book builds on the premise that a highly advanced "lost civilisation" operated in prehistory but was destroyed in a global catastrophe. Hancock seeks an explanation for his catastrophe in the controversial Younger Dryas impact hypothesis, suggesting that around 10,800 BC the fragments of a large comet struck the earth, causing widespread destruction, climate change, and sea-level rise. He then recounts that the survivors of this catastrophe, the titular "Magicians", dispersed across the world to pass on the knowledge of their lost civilisation. He links this to the construction of various ancient monuments, including Göbekli Tepe, Baalbek, and the Pyramids of Giza, which Hancock claims are much older than mainstream archaeologists say.[4]"
 

lvysaur

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Love these thoughts. Maybe you can help me pursue an angle I've been thinking about the past few years, namely, are you keen on any of the theories of recent catastrophes on Earth? The names of the researchers are escaping me now, some of them have been suspected to be controlled opposition and therefore taken with a grain of salt, but I'm talking about the capture of the inner solar system planets by Saturn.

Unfortunately I know nothing about the proto-Saturn theory, I actually first heard of it from @tyw (I recommend checking his stuff out, it's interesting) Blogs

There are photos of ancient rock from South America, with "shovel markings" in it, as if someone had scooped out liquid rock. This meshes with tyw's claim that rock was much more moldable during proto-Saturn.

I've also heard about the "comet hit earth 13,000 years ago, reset human civilization" theory. Might have merit.

I also have a self-formed theory about "Australoid" colonization of the Americas several millennia before the Native Americans. There is strong genetic evidence that Amazonian Natives have Australoid admixture, and that Denisovans were extremely advanced (Australoids are the only people with Denisovan ancestry).

In addition, many of the giant myth accounts by Native Americans (huge men with red hair, but NOT white skin), point to an Australoid-like color pattern (Australoids frequently have blonde/red hair, which does NOT come from Europeans, and this also happens in the Australoid-adjacent Indians and SEAsians to a lesser extent).

The two major blonde populations (Australoids and Europeans) also share a common Y chromosome which was found in an Australoid-admixed man from Beijing 50,000 years ago, which eventually went on to father the ANE population and later Indoeuropeans (the purest Europeans lacked blonde hair, it came in from the east).

The fathers of the Indoeuropeans (ANE, Mal'ta Boy) show substantial Australoid-related admixture.

Denisovans also happened to have HUGE teeth, possibly because they were huge-bodied themselves. There are also South American ruins that predate current Natives by tens or hundreds of thousands of years. I can post evidence for any part of this theory if you want (I'll make a separate thread).
 

lvysaur

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I posted earlier today in response to a comment about the millennia-long tradition of robber baronship (robber baronhood?) and have always wondered if our predecessors that survived those catastrophic events are evolved to be parasitic, either through natural selection and/or privilege, to borrow your term. Can parasitism, if you accept my notion that so many people in positions of power are parasites, be considered evolved if it can be argued it is efficient? I guess I want to try and explain to myself using your evolution paradigm why humanity is in the state it is these days.

Just wanted to toss some thoughts your way and see if they resonate.

You seem to be my long lost twin, or else this is just extreme synchronicity. I was just thinking about making a post on this a few days ago. I'll do it now, and give you a mention.

Very interesting theory. Love these types of posts that find new patterns in our complex world.

Thanks. The problem with scientists is that they are either incapable of thinking this way, or they take it as obvious, and never bother to explain these things to the public.
 

cjm

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Unfortunately I know nothing about the proto-Saturn theory, I actually first heard of it from @tyw (I recommend checking his stuff out, it's interesting) Blogs

THAT'S where I heard about it!! I always forget the sources for information I come across, I just load them into Feedly or bookmark the page and forget about it. Man I miss that guy. I would love to just sit around, chew nicotine gum with him, and shoot the junk.

I'm going to read through your thoughts after work. Really appreciate you sharing.

You seem to be my long lost twin, or else this is just extreme synchronicity. I was just thinking about making a post on this a few days ago. I'll do it now, and give you a mention.

I have been "following" you for years. I forget why, obviously, but probably I like ya brain :) I would frickin' LOVE to see that post. I'm finally getting some dialogue out of this forum after being a mute for 7 years and it's really satisfying.

Edit: speaking of synchronicity, I finally made my way over to Rupert Sheldrake's website and learned of his simple online experiments that essentially demonstrate the existence of telepathy. I have a lot of brain waves stored up that are finally finding footing in reality so perhaps you picked up my signal :)
 

cjm

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
249
Age
34
Thanks. The problem with scientists is that they are either incapable of thinking this way, or they take it as obvious, and never bother to explain these things to the public.

+1. I think Ray provides a good model for the kind of "liaison" ("generalist" and "translator" come to mind as good descriptors but I'm still dancing around it) we need to bridge that gap.
 
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