Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Cirion]

Waking temp and pulses are by far the most important. I have noticed that when I feel rested (rarely these days, still working on this aspect) my temps and pulses are good but beyond that, I also have noticed that my energy throughout the rest of the day (as well as temps and pulses) are also more stable, and I really believe being well rested improves so many markers of health like insulin sensitivity (need less food to maintain temps/pulses/mood).

This is why now I almost argue that sleep is the most important aspect of all health markers to get perfect. I am not really exaggerating. Fix sleep, fix literally everything else. As a result, sleep is now my #1 focus to get perfect.

 

[Makrosky]

@Orion and @Tarmander might I ask for your temps ?

This is not to judge or scrutinize anyone. I'm just curious for the ones that are feeling much better, how that correlates with temps.

 

[Makrosky]

38.6 that's 101.5F. I think I have achieved that temperature once or twice through nutrition but that's definitely not a normal temperature I ever get lol. The only way I've achieved that was a heavily salted, hot starch meal heavily buttered plus hot tea (or it may have been hot coffee).

Sorry!!! A typo. I meant 36.8

 

[Cirion]

@Orion and @Tarmander might I ask for your temps ?

This is not to judge or scrutinize anyone. I'm just curious for the ones that are feeling much better, how that correlates with temps.

I know @tankasnowgod is one user who has perfect sleep and always wakes up at a temp of 98.6F.

@ilikecats consistently gets very high temps of 99-100F as well and he says he is doing great.

 

[Makrosky]

This is why now I almost argue that sleep is the most important aspect of all health markers to get perfect. I am not really exaggerating. Fix sleep, fix literally everything else. As a result, sleep is now my #1 focus to get perfect.

Absolutely! Sometimes it is the other way around though : You have to fix something else so you finally sleep really well.

 

[Cirion]

Absolutely! Sometimes it is the other way around though : You have to fix something else so you finally sleep really well.

Ugh, yeah, that's why it's so hard to get perfect. It's a huge catch 22. Need better sleep to improve insulin sensitivity and whatnot. But you need better insulin sensitivity and all that to get better sleep. sighhhhh LOL

 

[InChristAlone]

Like was mentioned feeling good is subjective. I've had high temps and pulses and it was adrenaline. The warmth of our hands and feet matter, and also the ability to relax is a thyroid thing as well, but also a nervous system regulation thing. The sole focus on temps or thyroid is misguided. If the nervous system is dysregulated you won't sleep well. You don't necessarily want to stay up really high all the time. I believe life is more like a wave. Our ability to ride the wave matters greatly for the health of our mind and body.

 

[somuch4food]

Let's not forget though, that one can feel good and not be healthy. Stress hormones feel great. So some people on keto for example, might feel good, but actually be poor health and have low HR and/or low temp to go along with it.

feeling good =/= healthy

I'm beyond healthy. I'm looking for a lifestyle/diet that fits me and gives me the energy I need to do what I want.

If somebody wants to enjoy food as much as he wants, nobody is stopping him. He might perform poorly at work and die early, but that's the life he chose. I am not looking at longevity, but at quality of life.

For me, tracking just feels cumbersome and feeds my perfectionism. I then go crazy on plans and I crash when they don't work and the cycle repeats. I'm finding intuition more useful in my case.

I agree on stress hormones, I was there this summer and I'm not going back. I felt ok, but my body was breaking down before my eyes.

 

[Makrosky]

I don't use cronometer. But here two different average day of eating. One in the period 2009-2012, and the other 2013-2019:

2009-2012: half quart of low-fat milk (500ml), but the milk had no added vitamin A or D. 2 cups of white rice with 150 gram of beef (steak or roast)
2 pounds of potatoes, 200 grams of chicken breast without skin, 100 gram dark chocolate (54% cocoa), coffee with 30 grams of sugar.

2013-2019: quart of orange juice, half quart of low-fat milk, 200 grams of low-fat cheese (with added beta carotene), 1 large carrot, kale 100 grams, 2 cups of white rice, 50 grams of dark chocolate, 2 pounds of potatoes, 2 whole eggs, coffee with 60 grams of sugar, beef liver 100 grams every two weeks, shrimp 100 gram two times a week, chicken breast two times a week 200 gram. I also used Estroban everyday for around 4 months out of 12 months a year (which has 5000 IU per day). I have also used Retinil 2 whole bottles over the years, and one nutrisorb-A bottle a few years ago.


Something like this. I also added butter or coconut oil and drank coke when I felt like it.

I made it approximate. I created a fake account just for this with default settings like age and weight so don't pay attention to recommendations.

2009-2012 (Definitely extremely low A):

2013-2019 (Definitely extremely high A, not counting the liver and the supplements) :

 

[Cirion]

I'm beyond healthy. I'm looking for a lifestyle/diet that fits me and gives me the energy I need to do what I want.

If somebody wants to enjoy food as much as he wants, nobody is stopping him. He might perform poorly at work and die early, but that's the life he chose. I am not looking at longevity, but at quality of life.

For me, tracking just feels cumbersome and feeds my perfectionism. I then go crazy on plans and I crash when they don't work and the cycle repeats. I'm finding intuition more useful in my case.

I agree on stress hormones, I was there this summer and I'm not going back. I felt ok, but my body was breaking down before my eyes.

I actually agree with you, I also want quality of life. However, quality of life virtually always corresponds to longevity. They are not virtually exclusive, in most cases. It is only the healthy people with high QoL that tend to live to be 100+. But yes. If I had to choose between QoL or longevity, absolutely, I would choose QoL any day. Healthy to me means QoL. I used to think healthy means things like being the body weight I want to be, but I no longer consider that healthy (and it isn't).

I don't plan to track for the rest of my life, but it's necessary while I achieve healing. I have to track because otherwise I can't remember what works and what doesn't. But, of course, that's just what I do, not everyone necessarily needs or wants to take that approach.

 

[Amazoniac]

The first two studies showed fairly opposite effects. Causing the rats to become deficient showed that caused biochemical hyperthyroidism (I thought it was hard to make them deficient?). Whereas the human study on patients with cirrhosis showed giving them vitamin A increased their thyroid levels. Which is it???

Either way I think Peat is right, 5,000IUs is more than enough for most people. And yet people are regularly eating liver on this forum and other paleo type ways of eating which usually puts someone over 10,000 IU's for that day. Another case popped up on here with a guy taking 50,000! His thyroid test revealed antibodies. And still he thought this was necessary because he had some night blindness. The insanity continues.

If the people doing the low vitamin A see symptoms pop up all they would have to do is eat a big source of it. Wham bam done. If for some reason I start seeing high temps and pulse again I will have some gosh darn liver!

I was thinking about those modern day blindness cases from eating a strange diet of only processed foods, sure they may have been missing vitamin A but they were probably also missing riboflavin and ascorbic acid and other nutrients.

Noelle,

The conflicting part is instead the cirrhoptic group that was less toxic not hasing higher circulating levels of the hormones as the other experiment. However! An average of 21 mcg/100 ml is low but not extreme (if I'm not wrong, the acceptable range is about 20 to 60 mcg/100 ml); it takes a more marked deficiency for those abnormalities to occur. Given that there was no difference in the weight of deficient and control animals, they was likely beginning to enter that stage, but weren't quite there yet. When it's frank and prolonged, apparently the typhoid enlarges (in excess it shrinks) and it makes animals experience the hyperthyroidism that precedes hypo.

Symptoms of what if the clearer you are of a poison, the better? How do you think the body primes itself for a meal that you perceive having something harmful in it? Won't it be a canary having in your cerebra to decide between letting go of your progress so far to fix other issues that eventually appear or insisting on it? There are circulating lists now on how to be meticulous about it.

--
Tarmandor, I didn't miss you message. My reply is going to need more elaboration than I imagin'd, I don't want to rehash the previous points.

 

[Amazoniac]

I made it approximate. I created a fake account just for this with default settings like age and weight so don't pay attention to recommendations.

2009-2012 (Definitely extremely low A):
View attachment 12313 View attachment 12314
2013-2019 (Definitely extremely high A, not counting the liver and the supplements) :
View attachment 12315 View attachment 12316

Guru, why not detailing the forms?

 

[Makrosky]

Guru, why not detailing the forms?

What do you mean? Retinol vs betacarotene?

 

[somuch4food]

I used to think healthy means things like being the body weight I want to be, but I no longer consider that healthy (and it isn't).

Yeah, we definately agree. We are not travelling the same road, but we're headed the same way.

I'm trying not to use "healthy" anymore since it has been distorted by mainstream media and the Internet.

 

[Tarmander]

@Orion and @Tarmander might I ask for your temps ?

This is not to judge or scrutinize anyone. I'm just curious for the ones that are feeling much better, how that correlates with temps.

Sure. I havent taken my temp in forever. Actually I did about 6 months ago when I tried 20g of vitamin C in one day. My temp dropped to 94...that was interesting.

Do you just want me to do it in the morning?

 

[Christoph]

I've been loosely following a low retinoid/carotenoid diet since mid November, 4+ months in as of now, and it's been really good for me. Perhaps the most striking difference is the improvement in my vision (focus), which was never really bad but bad enough to have corrective-lens restriction on my driver's license. I am now driving at night without my glasses with a high level of confidence in my vision. I've steadily increased the distance at which I can read license plates at night. At the start, I needed to be right up on a vehicle to read the plates. Now I can read them from half a city block away. I'm looking forward to removing that DL restriction in the coming months.

At about the 1-week mark, I noticed my skin was much smoother and some very mild eczema on the outer sides of my hands was gone along with psoriasis on my elbows. Probably most importantly, I've been dealing with near hypertension for a few years now, ~130/85. After 3 months on low vitamins A, my BP is steady at ~115/70. Apparently, I don't have a deficiency in ACE inhibitors and/or diuretics.

I've read two of Grant's books, ETFOH and Poison, and the toxic label for Vitamin A seems a bit extreme. After all, retinol is hoarded in the liver. My take on it, we're probably consuming 10 - 50 times too much. Ergo, chronic hypervitaminosis A. I'm interested in hearing about those long-term animal experiments some of you are performing and personal anecdotes, both good and bad. I'm interested in a balanced picture of this whole hypervitaminosis A thing.

 

[Yi at LDT]

yes, then mental is the best part. Opportunities abound!

Fully with you here!

 

[Yi at LDT]

New videos up for anyone interested. Thanks for the support!

Charlie made a great suggestion in recommending that I gather and post some testimonials. If I contact you, please don't feel obligated to provide one. If you would like to send something through or talk feel free to contact me at [email protected] or over the forum, please include the good, bad and the ugly.

 

[CheeseTitan]

I’ve been on a low A diet for a few months. But I’m still confused about dairy. The consensus here is to avoid all dairy products on this diet. As far as I can tell, dairy has Vitamin A from two sources: fortification and that naturally present in the fat.

This means that all kinds of milk are out, since all kinds of milk are either fortified or contain fat. But what about yogurt and kefir? I can get yogurt and kefir that are both fat-free and unfortified.

I’ve considered making almond milk, but my almonds don’t have any nipples (just between you and me, I think I’ve only got male almonds, but I’m too polite to ask them).

And I still can’t find good evidence that casein has “hidden retinol/retinoic acid”. So I don’t understand franko’s reaction.

Has anyone achieved health improvements on this diet with fat-free, unfortified dairy?

 

[Makrosky]

Sure. I havent taken my temp in forever. Actually I did about 6 months ago when I tried 20g of vitamin C in one day. My temp dropped to 94...that was interesting.

Do you just want me to do it in the morning?

Yeah morning would be good or anyother time of the day you feel good.