Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[tankasnowgod]

It's a similar story with iron. If you're deficient, your body starts grabbing all the iron it can from your diet.​

And this begs the question the why? Why is your body trying to conserve it? As I asked before, why does vitamin A get to stay in the VIP lounge of the liver, while almost every other dangerous element accumulates elsewhere in the body? The liver's job is not to store anything, it's job is to metabolize.

Well, being deficient isn't the only time the body tries to load up on iron. In some diseases like sickle cell and thalessemia, when red blood cells can't be made right, the body absorbs extra iron to try and make more red blood cells, even when iron stores are already high. Blood transfusions can often compound this problem. There are also the genetic loading disorders, which can cause the body to continue to absorb iron, even when sufficient. And supplemental forms can also overload the normal feedback mechanisms, either through design (such as the Ferric EDTA complex), or by sheer amounts added.

 

[InChristAlone]

• Why do we convert carotinoids to retinol in the first place, if it can become such a hazard? Are accumulated carotinoids even more dangerous? If so, then why haven't we developed an aversion to high carotinoid fruits and vegetables? Why do fruits then contain carotinoids at all if they are hazardous to their symbiotic animal partners?

The way I understood it is carotenoids are a plant poison and thus converting it to retinol helps bind it and protect us. Even Chris Masterjohn states plants have many compounds that are a toxin to humans. I have an aversion to certain ones. But sometimes these compounds can create a kind of addiction to them. Haha coffee is one!! Caffeine is not a vitamin! Our bodies develop a kind of hormesis to it, forces the liver to become stronger against it. Caffeine is the plant's insecticide.

 

[InChristAlone]

I'm pretty sure Genereaux and Smith are the only ones who will argue that vitamin A is unequivocally bad. Everyone that is still commenting in this thread has settled for the interpretation of a disturbed relationship with vitamin A in developed countries.

Genereaux lists three ways:
1. Accutane, et al
2. More brightly colored plant foods, year round
3. Fortification of non-fat milk and bread products.

Smith has added another:
4. Glyphosate interferes with vitamin A breakdown (and does other stuff like chelate minerals, block glycine)

In 2018 a study was published that looks at how vancomyocin alters vitamin A metabolism in the gut, so:
5. Antibiotics

Adding on to #3, there is also the matter of context. Getting vitamin A in liver, butter, and eggs appears to be not nearly as problematic. The saturated fat is important, but as Smith says in the video I posted, there are other co-factors in those foods that keep RA from getting crazy with the RXR receptors. Dietary guidelines have been moving the population away from butter and eggs for decades, and so for many people their largest intake of vitamin A comes from non-fat milk, bread, and plants -- all of which have no fat to emulsify the A. (Ironically, all of this information comes from Genereaux and Smith, but I'm not sure they can be credited for developing this understanding. They see the world in black and white -- they deny that vitamin A has a proper context -- and that's why it's an addendum here.)

So the question for the rest of us is why does limiting A appear to help some people?

If you want to prove Genereaux and Smith wrong about the essentiality of vitamin A, that's a different deal. I think their case using scientific studies against essentiality is much stronger than a handful of observations in uncontrolled environments. More importantly, a victory will be fruitless. Let's say you prove it's essential. Then what? Just forget about the whole thing? It's short-sighted.

I'd rather deepen our understanding of vitamin A metabolism because it will help us know the proper role of vitamin A and how to troubleshoot more health issues. Arguing about essentiality is not going to accomplish that. Let's move beyond that, just like we moved beyond that in iron management.

Well said!

 

[InChristAlone]

Ha!

I like this guy. I heard him on Matt Stone. Cocky, up front about his business and interests. I am glad he is doing all this investigating. Guy cherrypicks like mad but what else are you really supposed to do.

I like him too, even though he blocked me along time ago because I was saying I do well drinking coke. Haha! I use a different account to follow him. And it's like going into a candy shop when I go to his page, I love reading his posts, it's like juicy gossip.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

There are some pretty interesting tidbits about vitamin A and choline in Amazoniac's choline thread.

For instance this post: Incomprehensive/ble Notes On Choline

 

[Steven Bussinger]

I just read the two new blog posts Grant posted. The one about protein omg!

" He then went on and told me about a study he had just headed up to test this theory. It was a large study conducted between Canadian and UK researchers. They took 7,500 people with Chronic Kidney Disease and put them on a zero protein diet. He then said that it didn’t go very well, and I quote him: “we ended up killing most of them in three months.” Clearly, their “study” did not help these people at all; instead, it accelerated them into death."

They killed nearly all 7,500 people in 3 months! I don't know why people put so much trust in scientific medical researchers, they have a long history of unethical behavior.

That is pretty incredible. Usually they pull the plug way before it gets that bad.

I need to read that post in full. My rolfer has a kidney disease and does low protein.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Protein synthesis and setbacks

Conversely, where vitamin C really shines is when taken when people are sick. It is also reported to be very protective in the context of vitamin A toxicity. So much so, that I think, scurvy might just be misdiagnosed vitamin A toxicity. The reason that vitamin C plays such a critical role is that it facilitates the formation of collagen and bone rebuilding. These are two of the first tissues affected by vitamin A toxicity.

Wow, "everything looks like a nail when you have a hammer" much? This just in, every disease is vitamin A toxicity. I mean, I'm sure RA can be found to have a role in nearly any disease. That's just how biology is, every disease is multi-factorial. @Janelle525 do you buy this? I know you're a big fan of vitamin C.

 

[InChristAlone]

Protein synthesis and setbacks



Wow, "everything looks like a nail when you have a hammer" much? This just in, every disease is vitamin A toxicity. I mean, I'm sure RA can be found to have a role in nearly any disease. That's just how biology is, every disease is multi-factorial. @Janelle525 do you buy this? I know you're a big fan of vitamin C.

No I wouldn't say scurvy is vitamin A toxicity.

 

[Mufasa]

I cant believe this theory is getting so much attention on this forum.

I guess many people here more interested in reading juicy conspiracy theories than actually improving their health.

 

[Amazoniac]

I'm pretty sure Genereaux and Smith are the only ones who will argue that vitamin A is unequivocally bad. Everyone that is still commenting in this thread has settled for the interpretation of a disturbed relationship with vitamin A in developed countries.

I don't think so. We can move on without getting semantics straight, but the problem in doing so is that it can orient us in different ways depending if you judge it crucial or toxic.

Here's an example:

carotenoids are a plant poison and thus converting it to retinol helps bind it and protect us.

You already posted another example above on the 'everything looks like a snail when you have a hamster' quote.

If you start with the promise that it's flare out toxic or that there's something inheritedly poisonous in poison A, the search is flawed from the beginning.

I cant believe this theory is getting so much attention on this forum.

I guess many people here more interested in reading juicy conspiracy theories than actually improving their health.

Mufasa, this thread has nothing to do with juices, it's about vitamin A. What's your opinion on the question below?

why does limiting A appear to help some people?

 

[Tarmander]

I cant believe this theory is getting so much attention on this forum.

I guess many people here more interested in reading juicy conspiracy theories than actually improving their health.

Success has its own rationality at times, even when it doesn't.

 

[Tarmander]

I like him too, even though he blocked me along time ago because I was saying I do well drinking coke. Haha! I use a different account to follow him. And it's like going into a candy shop when I go to his page, I love reading his posts, it's like juicy gossip.

Yeah he has a lot of really good info that he highlights and connects the dots on...now I watched one of his live streaming videos where he just talks and rambles about his theories...that is the opposite of good.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah he has a lot of really good info that he highlights and connects the dots on...now I watched one of his live streaming videos where he just talks and rambles about his theories...that is the opposite of good.

Are you saying when he rambles on its bad?

 

[Tarmander]

Are you saying when he rambles on its bad?

I'm not not saying it's bad.

 

[InChristAlone]

I cant believe this theory is getting so much attention on this forum.

I guess many people here more interested in reading juicy conspiracy theories than actually improving their health.

Have you had a gander around the off topic threads? Conspiracy theories are well covered on this forum. Most of us on here are very suspicious about the medical institution for good reason. I mean doctors used to advertise cigarettes! So why not go way back in time to when they were discovering vitamins?? It's been fascinating even if I was first very defensive of liver as superfood.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I mean doctors used to advertise cigarettes!

To be fair, doctors advertised for cigarettes back when they were healthy.

 

[InChristAlone]

To be fair, doctors advertised for cigarettes back when they were healthy.

When do you think they became unhealthy? My Grandma was a nurse and smoked as stress relief and she died in her 70's after a long struggle with lung problems. I mean she also ate very little so I'm sure that didn't help, but it was tough seeing her struggle for so long.

 

[tankasnowgod]

When do you think they became unhealthy? My Grandma was a nurse and smoked as stress relief and she died in her 70's after a long struggle with lung problems. I mean she also ate very little so I'm sure that didn't help, but it was tough seeing her struggle for so long.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I've always thought the campaign against cigarettes and tobacco in general was heavy handed, and think a lot of the claims were either baseless, or greatly exaggerated. Haidut posted a few links in this thread that are pretty interesting- Blocking Estrogen In Brain Strikingly Anabolic For Female Muscles / Bones

Smoking is good for you! - Lifestyle - LONGECITY (look for the comments by user nightlight)

'Doctors don't always know best:' Student claims he cured debilitating bowel disease by taking up smoking | Daily Mail Online

 

[InChristAlone]

Honestly, I'm not sure. I've always thought the campaign against cigarettes and tobacco in general was heavy handed, and think a lot of the claims were either baseless, or greatly exaggerated. Haidut posted a few links in this thread that are pretty interesting- Blocking Estrogen In Brain Strikingly Anabolic For Female Muscles / Bones

Smoking is good for you! - Lifestyle - LONGECITY (look for the comments by user nightlight)

'Doctors don't always know best:' Student claims he cured debilitating bowel disease by taking up smoking | Daily Mail Online

Do you think quitting is worse than continuing? She quit yrs before she died. But so did my Grandpa and he lived til 96. Recently passed from throat cancer. Maybe she needed to smoke! But her lungs were very very bad.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Do you think quitting is worse than continuing? She quit yrs before she died. But so did my Grandpa and he lived til 96. Recently passed from throat cancer. Maybe she needed to smoke! But her lungs were very very bad.

Not sure. I think the iron and tar in tobacco is likely always a problem. I also think the modern mass market cigarettes have a whole host of issues, aside from tobacco, that didn't exist 30-40 years ago. Probably better to quit those. But a purer tobacco product, probably not......