Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Forsythia]

Regarding supplementation, I don’t think Ray has ever encouraged oral retinol supplementation. He uses it topically, and it’s been my experience that retinol in mct oil, rubbed on the skin, as needed (mostly in summer) is safe and more effective, you may want to try that instead.

If it is true that Ray drinks regular 1% milk from the grocery store, then that milk has vitamin A & D added. Since he drinks about a gallon of milk a day (as reported by him) then he is ingesting a lot of supplemental vitamin A every day in the form of vitamin A palmitate.

 

[Pet Peeve]

Much of what you explain is taken care of by eating liver + oysters. But since you can’t stand liver, it makes things very complicated. Just recently with increased sun exposure, I began getting acne. I hadn’t been eating liver for about 2 months (eat a lot less of it in winter), so I ate about half a slice, poof acne gone, and smooth facial skin with no redness for the first time in week. As you mention, there is a clear relationship with vitamin D.

Regarding supplementation, I don’t think Ray has ever encouraged oral retinol supplementation. He uses it topically, and it’s been my experience that retinol in mct oil, rubbed on the skin, as needed (mostly in summer) is safe and more effective, you may want to try that instead.

I don't understand what you mean, I don't want more vitamin A. 100 g of beef liver contains 31 700 iu of retinol.

 

[julcreutz]

Does sun or vitamin D make your skin better?

I like being in the sun and I am getting sunlight as much as I can, but I don't think it helps my skin per se. When I have the odd small breakout they heal within a day or two anyways. I like being tan tho

 

[Anders86]

- Efficacy of Folic Acid and Vitamin B12 Replacement Therapies in the Reduction of Adverse Effects of Isotretinoin: A Randomized Controlled Trial
- Depression, isotretinoin, and folic acid: A practical review
- Severe aphthous stomatitis secondary to vitamin B12 deficiency with isotretinoin therapy

 

[mrchibbs]

I don't understand what you mean, I don't want more vitamin A. 100 g of beef liver contains 31 700 iu of retinol.

Yeah I get that, I was only saying that oral vitamin A (retinol) supplements aren't safe, and that a small portion of beef liver yields much better results without the negative side-effects you experienced. (because it contains many other minerals and cofactors including many b-vitamins). And the extra zinc/copper/selenium in oysters are all involved the metabolism of vitamin A. I know you don't like liver but you shouldn't evaluate the effects of vitamin A based on oral supplementation, as there are several problems with it.

My personal experience has been very positive with topical retinol as needed, and liver 1x/month, as opposed to some people here who eat it weekly or even daily. Those massive doses of vitamin A are unphysiological, and suppress thyroid function, allowing vitamin A to accumulate and cause problems. In general, supplementation is like fool's gold because there are so many nutrients in real food which we haven't even discovered, and taking vitamins/minerals in isolation doesn't come close to the real thing, and there is also a massive problem of impurities and excipients.

That's why sourcing the most nutrient-dense foods or even the powder (pure) form of supplements when necessary and/or applying topicals in mct is more prudent and less likely to cause problems.

 

[mrchibbs]

If it is true that Ray drinks regular 1% milk from the grocery store, then that milk has vitamin A & D added. Since he drinks about a gallon of milk a day (as reported by him) then he is ingesting a lot of supplemental vitamin A every day in the form of vitamin A palmitate.

And I don't think he views it as ideal, in fact he's spoken against it (mass supplementation of A,D, and even iron) in many interviews. I think at some point he was able to source milk from local producers, but maybe not nowadays. This is the same reason why he eats just 1 egg a day or maybe less, because they're of very poor quality in the US. But he probably has less trouble with it because he's optimized his metabolism so much that his body is probably able to consume vitamin A very quickly.

 

[mrchibbs]

I cannot bother to read all 315 pages, but I still thought I'd chime in.

I discovered Genereux's low VA diet/theory when I was carnivore. I always noticed that eating liver doesn't help in any way (skin, energy and whatnot), it usually resulted in breakouts especially on my chest. I played a lot with my liver intake (some weeks even the PKD-advised 400g per week) but I always did better on low VA.

Not being on a higher carb diet again I notice too that VA causes problems. The last time I ate liver my skin got extremely dry the next day, and it wasn't even a big portion (it was lower than 20g).
Also, carrots (especially cooked ones) seem to cause the same breakout issues for me.

I also took isotretinoin for I think 1 1/2 years (maybe even 2, too long ago).

Am I just VA saturated? Is this why VA causes problems for me?

Is your thyroid low (i.e. body temperature), if so, yeah all the liver you've eaten has probably led to an accumulation of it in your tissues, and it may be oxidizing. If thyroid/cholesterol/selenium-zinc-copper-mg aren't present in adequate amount, vitamin A can't be consumed to make the hormones. Maybe taking vitamin E would help to prevent oxidation of A. And your thyroid maybe chronically suppressed by high stores of vitamin A. It's a delicate balance.

 

[julcreutz]

Is your thyroid low (i.e. body temperature), if so, yeah all the liver you've eaten has probably led to an accumulation of it in your tissues, and it may be oxidizing. If thyroid/cholesterol/selenium-zinc-copper-mg aren't present in adequate amount, vitamin A can't be consumed to make the hormones. Maybe taking vitamin E would help to prevent oxidation of A. And your thyroid maybe chronically suppressed by high stores of vitamin A. It's a delicate balance.

Yeah, I would definitely say my thyroid function is low. I think I haven't eaten a considerable amount of iodine for over 2 years basically. I've greatly increased my consumption of lean fish and I I do feel better with it.

 

[mrchibbs]

Yeah, I would definitely say my thyroid function is low. I think I haven't eaten a considerable amount of iodine for over 2 years basically. I've greatly increased my consumption of lean fish and I I do feel better with it.

If your thyroid function is low, eating lots of liver can make things a lot worse.

I think shellfish is a better choice than fish, because it's so nutrient-rich, but lean fish is fine, I like haddock cooked in egg batter and butter for example.

 

[bistecca]

A lot of talk about the consumption of liver causing problems for people in this thread.. Is anyone considering that ruminants, even grass fed, eat a large portion of their diet as hay, which is almost systemically treated with fungicides which accumulate in the liver?

 

[mrchibbs]

A lot of talk about the consumption of liver causing problems for people in this thread.. Is anyone considering that ruminants, even grass fed, eat a large portion of their diet as hay, which is almost systemically treated with fungicides which accumulate in the liver?

Of course, but I think Ray has spoken about this before, saying that the liver is often very clean despite pesticides. I don't remember which interview it was.

 

[bistecca]

Of course, but I think Ray has spoken about this before, saying that the liver is often very clean despite pesticides. I don't remember which interview it was.

I have a reluctant ease with taking ray at his word, and I personally believe that eating liver from a sub-optimally raised animal is better than no liver at all(and i think ray is very much a realist in his recommendations) but I would bet that the practice of feeding cattle fungicide treated hay has some impact on the nutritional attributes of the liver.

This is something that came onto my radar recently after seeing hay-balers with a big vat of liquid on the back and prompting some curiosity.. this thread by Haidut certainly raises alarms. That referenced study mentions Vinclozolin as being "the most common fungicide" and the wiki for Vinclozolin labels it as anti-androgenic.

 

[mrchibbs]

I have a reluctant ease with taking ray at his word, and I personally believe that eating liver from a sub-optimally raised animal is better than no liver at all(and i think ray is very much a realist in his recommendations) but I would bet that the practice of feeding cattle fungicide treated hay has some impact on the nutritional attributes of the liver.

This is something that came onto my radar recently after seeing hay-balers with a big vat of liquid on the back and prompting some curiosity.. this thread by Haidut certainly raises alarms. That referenced study mentions Vinclozolin as being "the most common fungicide" and the wiki for Vinclozolin labels it as anti-androgenic.

Ray has never given me any reason to doubt what he says. I still buy my liver grass-fed and organic frozen because it's from a farm whose practices I want to encourage, but as I remember he seemed pretty sure that it made very little difference whether it was organic or not.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Ray has never given me any reason to doubt what he says. I still buy my liver grass-fed and organic frozen because it's from a farm whose practices I want to encourage, but as I remember he seemed pretty sure that it made very little difference whether it was organic or not.

Recent observation I made. I was sitting in the reading a book and 30-45 minutes later my vision became blurry which went away after 1 hour. It happened a few times in the last two weeks. Haven't experienced this prior to that, although sun exposure made me energized and happy. Can it be due to VA mobilization? I was hypothyroid for the last 2-3 years and was eating 150g of liver weekly and eggs everyday plus dairy. Vitamin E makes me feel great too.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Recent observation I made. I was sitting in the reading a book and 30-45 minutes later my vision became blurry which went away after 1 hour. It happened a few times in the last two weeks. Haven't experienced this prior to that, although sun exposure made me energized and happy. Can it be due to VA mobilization? I was hypothyroid for the last 2-3 years and was eating 150g of liver weekly and eggs everyday plus dairy. Vitamin E makes me feel great too.

Muscular Fatigue of the musculature which is causing accomodation?Is it possible?Sunexposure changes how contracted the eye has to be compared to an typical dim roomlight.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Muscular Fatigue of the musculature which is causing accomodation?Is it possible?Sunexposure changes how contracted the eye has to be compared to an typical dim roomlight.

I doubt - it's the first couple of times it happened and last summer I spent a lot of time in the beach. Not even during my vacation in Montenegro in 40 degrees C.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

deleted

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Recent observation I made. I was sitting in the reading a book and 30-45 minutes later my vision became blurry which went away after 1 hour. It happened a few times in the last two weeks. Haven't experienced this prior to that, although sun exposure made me energized and happy. Can it be due to VA mobilization? I was hypothyroid for the last 2-3 years and was eating 150g of liver weekly and eggs everyday plus dairy. Vitamin E makes me feel great too.

Do you have skin symptomatology?Any connection of derm to your low-High intake of VA?

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Do you have skin symptomatology?Any connection of derm to your low-High intake of VA?

I have acne on my legs and sometimes on my face, which gets better after I get sun. Body hair doesn't grow on the patches with acne. Also sebborrheic dermatitis type issues on my scalp and face, angualr chelitits. My acne started 3 years ago not long before my chronic digestive issues/ibs started. As of now digestion is pretty much fixed, only some bloating.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Do you have skin symptomatology?Any connection of derm to your low-High intake of VA?

Also dandruff and mpb which started way before, but dandruff is connected to my issues.