Gbolduev Q And A - Non Peat

[Tarmander]

Good post Tarmander, er I mean good post detailing how back arsewards things have suddenly become. I thought Gbold revolutionized peat hormones by emphasizing the counter nature of substance and its receptor so with counter endocrinology you had to effect the system not by raising the hormone but flipping the state of its receptor to a more sensitive value? Maddyb says this is not that circumstance . this is just - hey, we need more substance and more sensitivity. But would not peat say the same thing. But to throw out an answer to your good question regarding sugar and cortisol being the equivalents as Gbold hints, maybe to much cortisol raising to much sugar can have the same bad effects as just taking to much sugar. Which puts us right back at peat who says to eat enough but not to much sugar just the right amount to attenuate the stress reaction from cortisol. So is this what @gbolduev means when he says peat has one case correct and this is why fast oxidizers should eat peat diet?

Yeah, kind of feels like the snake eating its own tail and is tough to translate to action. "Eat the right amount of sugar to attenuate cortisol." Hmm . Great summation though of Gbold's idea of contrarian endocrinology. Definitely got the wheels spinning and lining up some experiences we have heard.

I also want to add that a big idea, propagated by Matt Stone mostly a few years ago when Peat's ideas were gaining momentum, was that increased sugar intake would increase metabolism, usually through increased CO2. Eating more sugar would make sugar easier to eat basically...which funnily enough I could imagine coming out of gbold's mouth, not that he ever said it...but that idea I think was resoundingly debunked for most of the people who tried it. Although Matt Stone said it worked for something like 15-20% of people which is also oddly the amount of fast oxidizers that Gbold says are in the population

Yes, insulin and cortisol are antagonistic. That is why they rise together - to protect from the excess of the other. Insulin drops blood sugar and cortisol raises it.

Okay that makes sense in a certain aspect, although it kind of tosses out my whole idea of what two substances being antagonistic of each other means. You are basically outlining the problem though for many people I think. Raise carb intake, raises insulin, raises cortisol, type 2 diabetes, etc....or lower carb intake because of insulin resistance, raise FFA even more, raise cortisol, type 2 diabetes, etc....

 

[haidut]

Yeah, kind of feels like the snake eating its own tail and is tough to translate to action. "Eat the right amount of sugar to attenuate cortisol." Hmm . Great summation though of Gbold's idea of contrarian endocrinology. Definitely got the wheels spinning and lining up some experiences we have heard.

I also want to add that a big idea, propagated by Matt Stone mostly a few years ago when Peat's ideas were gaining momentum, was that increased sugar intake would increase metabolism, usually through increased CO2. Eating more sugar would make sugar easier to eat basically...which funnily enough I could imagine coming out of gbold's mouth, not that he ever said it...but that idea I think was resoundingly debunked for most of the people who tried it. Although Matt Stone said it worked for something like 15-20% of people which is also oddly the amount of fast oxidizers that Gbold says are in the population



Okay that makes sense in a certain aspect, although it kind of tosses out my whole idea of what two substances being antagonistic of each other means. You are basically outlining the problem though for many people I think. Raise carb intake, raises insulin, raises cortisol, type 2 diabetes, etc....or lower carb intake because of insulin resistance, raise FFA even more, raise cortisol, type 2 diabetes, etc....

I think this is why Peat does not recommend fasting or high fat - either fasting or eating high fat will get you insulin resistant or diabetic. The goal is to keep lipolysis at bay while slowly losing weight with the proper (low-ish fat) diet.

 

[schultz]

Simple - insulin resistance due to excessive lipolysis so when there people eat sugar insulin rises a lot and cortisol always rises with insulin to protect from potential hypoglycemia. Lipolysis should be normalized before sugar can be properly metabolized without triggering an excessive insulin/cortisol response. All the people who suspect they have high cortisol should check insulin as well.

So this happens only in people with high lipolysis/insulin resistance? I was under the impression a high sugar/lowish fat diet suppresses lipolysis as well as cortisol. So would cutting the fat out of the diet normalize things eventually? And are you talking about all carbohydrates, or starch or something like granulated sugar?

Would this insulin/cortisol reaction happen more-so with straight protein? Presumably protein can raise insulin, which lowers blood sugar, but at the same time provides no sugar, so I'm guessing this could cause a compensatory rise in cortisol?

Sorry for all the questions

 

[moringa]

try to take different forms of b12 and see which one you react best to. I have no idea. I usually recommend shots to the sports people. Everyone who runs cycles so forth, take shots of b12. I just assumed that this could be your problem, Since the problem arose this quickly

i found a blend of adeno and methylcobalamin...would the methyl hurt my chemistry? i also found simple adenosylcobalamin...but what dose should i take ?

what do u think about sodium-thiosulfate for detoxing/chelating... russians have lots of experience with this substance

 

[Xisca]

Regulating all the parameters of a good old camera looks like a child game, and they invented the automatic that does it all alone!

Raise carb intake, raises insulin, raises cortisol, type 2 diabetes, etc....or lower carb intake because of insulin resistance, raise FFA even more, raise cortisol, type 2 diabetes, etc....

lol, all that rises must go down, and the reverse. So whatever the solution, there will be the same result, and as closing a circle, both ends result in getting at the same place!
So, fast from time to time to change the direction of the tide, drink your pee for contrarian endocrinology, get your red light from the sun, work outside in fresh air, get away from chemicals and EMF, and you will save the money of your supps, of your analysis, of your workout place, of your red light device, and more...! You will need less money to live and save also on yoga classes, coaching and be happy!
What are people doing for hobby? Walk, hike, garden, hunt, fish, all that we were meant to be doing all the time, in groups of course, for soothing what hurts and for increasing ocytocin...

 

[gbolduev]

i found a blend of adeno and methylcobalamin...would the methyl hurt my chemistry? i also found simple adenosylcobalamin...but what dose should i take ?

what do u think about sodium-thiosulfate for detoxing/chelating... russians have lots of experience with this substance

I would not take methyl forms to start. try regular form first

 

[cyclops]

drink your pee for contrarian endocrinology

I told you this forum is bonkers.

 

[Tarmander]

lol, all that rises must go down, and the reverse. So whatever the solution, there will be the same result, and as closing a circle, both ends result in getting at the same place!
So, fast from time to time to change the direction of the tide, drink your pee for contrarian endocrinology, get your red light from the sun, work outside in fresh air, get away from chemicals and EMF, and you will save the money of your supps, of your analysis, of your workout place, of your red light device, and more...! You will need less money to live and save also on yoga classes, coaching and be happy!

"To get good health realize there is no health." "To let go of the past, become the past." "Truth in a circle becomes falsehood leading to truth."

gobbledygook.

 

[ivy]

I may be mixing thoughts here but if hcl is good for lowering venous co2, then it would also be good for all the slow oxidiser hairloss people? I think you said zinc and manganese do the same thing.

@gbolduev, could you adress this pending question?

 

[haidut]

So this happens only in people with high lipolysis/insulin resistance? I was under the impression a high sugar/lowish fat diet suppresses lipolysis as well as cortisol. So would cutting the fat out of the diet normalize things eventually? And are you talking about all carbohydrates, or starch or something like granulated sugar?

Would this insulin/cortisol reaction happen more-so with straight protein? Presumably protein can raise insulin, which lowers blood sugar, but at the same time provides no sugar, so I'm guessing this could cause a compensatory rise in cortisol?

Sorry for all the questions

Lipolysis is higher in overweight and hypothyroid people. And since there is insulin resistance, just eating sugar may not suppress it enough. I think this is why Peat recommends niacinamide as he recognizes that endogenous insulin after eating will not be enough for some people to suppress lipolysis. Meat protein tends to raise insulin/cortisol more than dairy and protein like gelatin (when consumed with some carbs) should actually lower cortisol/insulin. I posted quite a few stuides on glycine/gelatin lowering cortisol of benefiting diabetes 2 patients.
But let's move this to another thread like below. This thread is for other discussions.
Glycine May Treat Type II Diabetes In Humans

 

[schultz]

Lipolysis is higher in overweight and hypothyroid people. And since there is insulin resistance, just eating sugar may not suppress it enough. I think this is why Peat recommends niacinamide as he recognizes that endogenous insulin after eating will not be enough for some people to suppress lipolysis. Meat protein tends to raise insulin/cortisol more than dairy and protein like gelatin (when consumed with some carbs) should actually lower cortisol/insulin. I posted quite a few stuides on glycine/gelatin lowering cortisol of benefiting diabetes 2 patients.
But let's move this to another thread like below. This thread is for other discussions.
Glycine May Treat Type II Diabetes In Humans

Oh right, hard not to go over topic sometimes. My apologies to everyone!

 

[gbolduev]

Lipolysis is higher in overweight and hypothyroid people. And since there is insulin resistance, just eating sugar may not suppress it enough. I think this is why Peat recommends niacinamide as he recognizes that endogenous insulin after eating will not be enough for some people to suppress lipolysis. Meat protein tends to raise insulin/cortisol more than dairy and protein like gelatin (when consumed with some carbs) should actually lower cortisol/insulin. I posted quite a few stuides on glycine/gelatin lowering cortisol of benefiting diabetes 2 patients.
But let's move this to another thread like below. This thread is for other discussions.
Glycine May Treat Type II Diabetes In Humans

Sorry not correct. insulin resistance is regulatory in these people and hypothyrodism is regulatory in these cases also. Since the body cant handle oxidative stress and cant handle any CO2 production. Usually insulin is kept low in these cases, but people raise it with eating calcium. and copper foods.

High insulin is usually in fast oxidizers , not slow. I have seen very little insulin levels in slow hypothyroid people. I see high insulin in every other case of fast oxidation.

No one is hypothyroid. unless you have a thyroid problem. hypothyroidism is regulatory and cant be forced with hormones.

You treat one problem , create another one.

Dont really want to argue Peat's approach here. Fasting does not make you insulin resistant. I fast all the time. my insulin is perfect. I have perfect oxidation balance. I don't overeat sugars and I eat according to my exercise levels. I never store any Pufas, since I don't overeat sugars. I never eat high calcium food, since I don't want my insulin levels high with slower metabolism.

Do the hairtest of those "insulin resistant" people. most of them will be fast oxidizers with the increased thyroid effect in the cell. And it is not insulin resistance at all. it is normal regulation of another problem

 

[James IV]

Sorry not correct. insulin resistance is regulatory in these people and hypothyrodism is regulatory in these cases also. Since the body cant handle oxidative stress and cant handle any CO2 production. Usually insulin is kept low in these cases, but people raise it with eating calcium. and copper foods.

High insulin is usually in fast oxidizers , not slow. I have seen very little insulin levels in slow hypothyroid people. I see high insulin in every other case of fast oxidation.

No one is hypothyroid. unless you have a thyroid problem. hypothyroidism is regulatory and cant be forced with hormones.

You treat one problem , create another one.

Dont really want to argue Peat's approach here. Fasting does not make you insulin resistant. I fast all the time. my insulin is perfect. I have perfect oxidation balance. I don't overeat sugars and I eat according to my exercise levels. I never store any Pufas, since I don't overeat sugars. I never eat high calcium food, since I don't want my insulin levels high with slower metabolism.

Do the hairtest of those "insulin resistant" people. most of them will be fast oxidizers with the increased thyroid effect in the cell. And it is not insulin resistance at all. it is normal regulation of another problem

Just adding to this. Periodic, appropriate, fasting and cyclic carbs causes me to store way more hepatic and muscle glycogen. I could not store crap on high frequency high carb feeding, I was always flat and my blood sugar would not stabilize itself.

 

[haidut]

Sorry not correct. insulin resistance is regulatory in these people and hypothyrodism is regulatory in these cases also. Since the body cant handle oxidative stress and cant handle any CO2 production. Usually insulin is kept low in these cases, but people raise it with eating calcium. and copper foods.

High insulin is usually in fast oxidizers , not slow. I have seen very little insulin levels in slow hypothyroid people. I see high insulin in every other case of fast oxidation.

No one is hypothyroid. unless you have a thyroid problem. hypothyroidism is regulatory and cant be forced with hormones.

You treat one problem , create another one.

Dont really want to argue Peat's approach here. Fasting does not make you insulin resistant. I fast all the time. my insulin is perfect. I have perfect oxidation balance. I don't overeat sugars and I eat according to my exercise levels. I never store any Pufas, since I don't overeat sugars. I never eat high calcium food, since I don't want my insulin levels high with slower metabolism.

Do the hairtest of those "insulin resistant" people. most of them will be fast oxidizers with the increased thyroid effect in the cell. And it is not insulin resistance at all. it is normal regulation of another problem

This goes against established practice in emergency medicine, which you cited as the correct approach. If you go to the ER in diabetic ketoacidosis they will give you either insulin or the anti-lipolytic drug acipimox, depending on how severe the acidosis is. The FFA of diabetic (type 2) people are always elevated. The FDA has already approved a lipolysis inhibitor (bromocriptine) as treatment for diabetes 2. It also reduces cortisol and increase DHEA. The key finding below is that T4 (thyroxine) increase lipolysis, which may be why some people do not feel well on a T4/T3 combo but T3 works wonders for their insulin resistance.
Acipimox - Wikipedia
Bromocriptine - Wikipedia
Biochemical mechanisms responsible for the attenuation of diabetic and obese conditions in obob mice treated with dopaminergic agonists
"...The treatment also reduced blood glucose and free fatty acids (FFA) relative to pair fed and ad libitum fed controls. BC/SKF treatment (but not pair feeding) concurrently reduced lipolysis, lipogenic enzyme activities and hepatic gluconeogenic enzyme activities. Treatment also increased hepatic concentrations of glycogen and xylulose-5-phosphate (X-5-P), a key stimulator of glycolysis. Finally, BC/SKF, but not pair feeding, reduced the circulating concentrations of thyroxine and corticosterone, two hormones known to increase lipolysis, lipogenesis and hyperglycaemia. Drug treatment also increased serum dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) sulfate concentrations, an inhibitor of body fat store accumulation."

The role of excessive lipolysis in insulin resistance and even diabetes is well established. In diabetes 1, it is a rapid and uncontrolled release of PUFA that can damage the pancreas. Most people who get sponatenous diabetes 1 get after a very stressful and/or exhaustive event (i.e. uncontrolled lipolysis and PUFA overload) or from a toxin that destroys the beta cells in the pancreas.

 

[Ella]

b5 pantothenic acid megadose? ~10g

@noodle that is ******* crazy. Why on earth are you supplementing 10g? It not only upsets biotin but others too. Have you ever heard the saying that less is more?

 

[Progesterone]

@JonnyCraig it happened to him first hand

Yes ! It has happened to me! and quite a few others as well!

It progresses... even years later, as if it kick-started something, is this possible?

Is the 'cure' to simply supplement excess biotin?

 

[gbolduev]

This goes against established practice in emergency medicine, which you cited as the correct approach. If you go to the ER in diabetic ketoacidosis they will give you either insulin or the anti-lipolytic drug acipimox, depending on how severe the acidosis is. The FFA of diabetic (type 2) people are always elevated. The FDA has already approved a lipolysis inhibitor (bromocriptine) as treatment for diabetes 2. It also reduces cortisol and increase DHEA. The key finding below is that T4 (thyroxine) increase lipolysis, which may be why some people do not feel well on a T4/T3 combo but T3 works wonders for their insulin resistance.
Acipimox - Wikipedia
Bromocriptine - Wikipedia
Biochemical mechanisms responsible for the attenuation of diabetic and obese conditions in obob mice treated with dopaminergic agonists
"...The treatment also reduced blood glucose and free fatty acids (FFA) relative to pair fed and ad libitum fed controls. BC/SKF treatment (but not pair feeding) concurrently reduced lipolysis, lipogenic enzyme activities and hepatic gluconeogenic enzyme activities. Treatment also increased hepatic concentrations of glycogen and xylulose-5-phosphate (X-5-P), a key stimulator of glycolysis. Finally, BC/SKF, but not pair feeding, reduced the circulating concentrations of thyroxine and corticosterone, two hormones known to increase lipolysis, lipogenesis and hyperglycaemia. Drug treatment also increased serum dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) sulfate concentrations, an inhibitor of body fat store accumulation."

The role of excessive lipolysis in insulin resistance and even diabetes is well established. In diabetes 1, it is a rapid and uncontrolled release of PUFA that can damage the pancreas. Most people who get sponatenous diabetes 1 get after a very stressful and/or exhaustive event (i.e. uncontrolled lipolysis and PUFA overload) or from a toxin that destroys the beta cells in the pancreas.

they give you insulin to put potassium back into the cell

I told you what it is. You look at t3 , t4 I look at thyroid effect in the cell.
fast oxidizers are running on fats , not slow. Slow oxidizers have tons of sugar in blood. they dont need fats. They store fats.

You eat sugar, you store fats. Majority of people overeat and don't exercise , this is what stores PUFA.

Peat's diet causes you to store Pufa. And you can't not eat pufa, it is everywhere.

That is why fasting is so good. You burn all your pufa in 30 days. and then if you don't overeat, you never store it, and you don't have too much of it pouring into your blood stream during stress.

What FDA approves, I disapprove. they have no idea what they are doing.( or do they)

FDA approved finasteride also. See what happened later. They are clueless

Georgi, this is non Peat thread same as finasteride thread.
I don't really have time to fight Peat in these threads.

As I stated to you. Fast oxidizers have lower thyroid value labs. It does not mean they are hypothyroid. they are hyperthyroid. this is where all these people are confused.
I look at thyroid effect in the cell, not some thyroid hormones which you interpret not correctly

thru 1000s of hairtests and blood tests, I can assure you fast oxidizers have high insulin levels , slow oxidizer rarely have high insulin, only can get it high on PEAT's diet. Since they are forcing metabolism higher without the sympathetic nervous system. and taking calcium with copper and aspirin. this causes the body to increase insulin but they body does not need this. It does not want to increase metabolism. Sugar metabolism increases too much Co2. Sugar is kept low inside of the cell. Thyroid is kept low in a slow oxidizer ON PURPOSE. People will be losing hair getting fatter if they try to increase metabolism in slow oxidation without solving sympathetic nervous system problem. Thus if all these people don't take tons of caffeine , they are screwed. And caffeine makes them screwed over time also. Since it desensitizes their adrenaline receptors which are already low.

I explained all this in PFS and this thread. I don't really want to go over this again

As I mentioned again this is non Peat thread and you are trying to derail this and PFS thread with Peat stuff

Looking at hormone levels in blood is wrong. You need to understand how to read the metabolism. High serotonin = means fast oxidizer not slow in most of the cases. Since serotonin is the trying to slow down sympathetic nervous system effect.

Estrogen that is made inside with copper lowers serotonin . since copper increases MAO-a

You can't look at studies and say this hormone does this or that. Exogenous hormones do the opposite of what they do inside of your body. Since they are regulated by the minerals inside of the body. And if you take the hormone from the outside you chelate that mineral.
I think this is where Peat is wrong, and you are wrong also. You read studies of exogenous hormones . They do the opposite of what hormone do inside of your body.


that is why you should never take hormones. EVER. this is what creates all the problems.
Since it bypasses mineral regulation.

let's say you take progesterone, this will chelate and lower your zinc. This will create too much Co2, but will not allow zinc to convert that Co2 into bicarbonate. that is why progesterone needs to be raised only with zinc and 3 beta hsd and never progesterone from the outside since zinc in 3 beta hsd and other enzymes by raising progesterone satisfies other conditions which allows zinc to raise progesterone like increased insulin ( zinc dependent, increased CO2 bicarbonate conversion, zinc dependent , increased SODs to handle oxidative stress) You take progesterone or any other hormone or a supplement you ruin and by pass all this.
this is why you cant take anything that speeds up slow oxidizer, without actually supporting anti oxidation system. this will ruin their blood vessels. I saw people on thyroid hormones with ruined blood vessels in 5-6 years.


That is why some slow oxidizer can have severe shortness of breath on progesterone. since they need zinc not progesterone. and their progesterone levels will go up on zinc, but at the same time this will offer a support for their CA enzyme.

You can't create the solid picture of metabolism without extensive picture of the PH and mineral regulation in different compartments.

Probably next week, I will outline rules diet for certain oxidation types. I will explain why I use this or that for a certain type. And you will see that everything I will outline will match your experiences, but with different explanations to why this is happening.

Good luck, bud. I hope to see you in Bulgaria soon.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Georgi, this is non Peat thread same as finasteride thread.
I don't really have time to fight Peat in these threads.

We know it is a NPT. That doesn't mean that no one can make a counter argument. If you perceive an argument as "Peat," that is irrelevant. That is just you dodging the argument.

.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

You eat sugar, you store fats

The rice you eat daily is also sugar. It gets converted mostly by pancreatic amylase.

.

 

[gbolduev]

The rice you eat daily is also sugar. It gets converted mostly by pancreatic amylase.

.

I don't overeat it. I eat carbs according to my exercise levels. Sometimes when I don't exercise or move. I don't eat for days. I can go without food the whole day.