Gbolduev Q And A - Non Peat

[gbolduev]

"Lower cortisol levels + compromised cortisol receptor sensitivity accounts for much of the symptom load exhibited by fibromyalgia patients"
When it lowers, why doesn't it increase receptors?
When I feel more pain, I think it means my cortisol lowers, but that sensitivity is not restored.

I am sure the answer has been given, if someone remembers... I am mixed, as fasting increases cortisol, so what blocks it during a fast, so that it will increase receptor sensitivity?

Anything that increases its requirement will increase its sensitivity . fasting increases requirement for cortisol . thus increases its sensitivity

If you block receptors with something body increases receptors.

 

[mattyb]

but I would not "block cortisol" I want to be more cortisol sensitive. so that I need less. I have been blocking fibro for 10 years, but it has become more difficult.

i do have some allergies issues and a bit high eosinophils. But I have no idea about my serotonine and do not want to take any drug unless vital.

Sorry, what? I'm having a hard time understanding what you are looking for.

Yeah but that is what we wanted right? To raise cortisol receptor sensitivity...the opposite of sugar. If you already have low serotonin though, it raises serotonin on snap back right?

Yes.

Hard to say if there would be a compensatory response in serotonin after ceasing cypro. One would think so, after ending cypro in the past I would often feel sick, sort of flu-like, for a day or two afterwards - but then I would be fine afterwards. You have to understand this is all in the territory of "never been studied so not definitely known".

I think one problem with much of the chronic high-sugar intake from the Peat diet is not just downregulation of cortisol receptor sensitivity, but primarily downregulation of cortisol secretion itself. Entrainment is an overlooked factor, the body becomes conditioned to it's circumstances. If every time you get stressed you immediately go for some sugar, and all throughout the day you eat sugar, your body will naturally downregulate cortisol response, both on receptor and secretion ends. Why would the body react to something properly when it never had to prior?

That's why excessive cortisol secretion is seen in starving people and cortisol increases over days to reach a peak, it doesn't immediately peak and then decline. They get entrained to the fasting state rather quickly. These people are in the opposite state. They do not respond to the dexamethasone suppression test. Their bodies just pump out more cortisol because it's needed. Cells don't downregulate sensitivity because it's needed. Cortisol half life increases, 24-h serum cortisol increases, and rate and duration of secretory responses increases. After re-feeding cortisol levels go back to normal or a bit lower, indicating that receptor sensitivity likely never changed much or improved. People also regain normal responses to dexamethasone after re-feeding. This makes me think that insufficient cortisol secretion is a greater problem than receptor sensitivity - although both likely play their part.

 

[mattyb]

Anything that increases its requirement will increase its sensitivity . fasting increases requirement for cortisol . thus increases its sensitivity

If you block receptors with something body increases receptors.

Exactly! This is not an issue about high hormone levels = low receptor levels. This is an issue about need and entrainment. When the body needs something it increases secretion, sensitivity, the whole nine yards.

 

[Amber]

Would you recommend magnesium supplements for slow oxidizers?

- When are you posting the recommendations for slow oxidizers/fast oxidizers?

 

[Stramonium]

How do you explain or fix decreasing steroid hormones such as Progesterone or Testosterone that comes inherently with aging? over estrogen dominance

 

[Xisca]

What I did after diagnosis of fibro included 1st some work on the nervous system. Then I did.a 4 days fast, some detox/purgating plants with 3 liters of water to vomit. Felt like new but had to keep away from stress. Then I felt so invincible that I was not careful enough....
7 years after, I have to do something again!

I not any more feel better with B12, and organic test did not show methylation problem (was taking B12 at this moment...)
3 days with some betaine HCl and it burns, and I had stange symptoms. From betain, or not from betain, that is the question!

chronic high-sugar intake = downregulation of cortisol receptor sensitivity, downregulation of cortisol secretion your body will naturally downregulate cortisol response, both on receptor and secretion ends.

So, I wrecked my long time low sugar / high veggies diet?
Even with only fruits?
I don't even have sugar at home. Well, honey...

 

[mattyb]

What I did after diagnosis of fibro included 1st some work on the nervous system. Then I did.a 4 days fast, some detox/purgating plants with 3 liters of water to vomit. Felt like new but had to keep away from stress. Then I felt so invincible that I was not careful enough....
7 years after, I have to do something again!

I not any more feel better with B12, and organic test did not show methylation problem (was taking B12 at this moment...)
3 days with some betaine HCl and it burns, and I had stange symptoms. From betain, or not from betain, that is the question!

So, I wrecked my long time low sugar / high veggies diet?
Even with only fruits?
I don't even have sugar at home. Well, honey...

I have no clue what you're issues are, or really anything about you. I can't give advice specific to your situation. I wasn't speaking directly to your situation.

Why are you worried about cortisol/cortisol receptors? Do you lab work indicating a dysfunction?

Stop trying to apply the concepts in this thread to you specifically, they are general concepts, not specific individualized treatments for you. There is a difference.

 

[Tarmander]

Yes.

Hard to say if there would be a compensatory response in serotonin after ceasing cypro. One would think so, after ending cypro in the past I would often feel sick, sort of flu-like, for a day or two afterwards - but then I would be fine afterwards. You have to understand this is all in the territory of "never been studied so not definitely known".

I think one problem with much of the chronic high-sugar intake from the Peat diet is not just downregulation of cortisol receptor sensitivity, but primarily downregulation of cortisol secretion itself. Entrainment is an overlooked factor, the body becomes conditioned to it's circumstances. If every time you get stressed you immediately go for some sugar, and all throughout the day you eat sugar, your body will naturally downregulate cortisol response, both on receptor and secretion ends. Why would the body react to something properly when it never had to prior?

That's why excessive cortisol secretion is seen in starving people and cortisol increases over days to reach a peak, it doesn't immediately peak and then decline. They get entrained to the fasting state rather quickly. These people are in the opposite state. They do not respond to the dexamethasone suppression test. Their bodies just pump out more cortisol because it's needed. Cells don't downregulate sensitivity because it's needed. Cortisol half life increases, 24-h serum cortisol increases, and rate and duration of secretory responses increases. After re-feeding cortisol levels go back to normal or a bit lower, indicating that receptor sensitivity likely never changed much or improved. People also regain normal responses to dexamethasone after re-feeding. This makes me think that insufficient cortisol secretion is a greater problem than receptor sensitivity - although both likely play their part.

The thing is, if we had both lowering of secretion and receptors, then according to Gbold, would not one cancel out the other? In other words, if you lower secretion, won't that up-regulate receptors? gbold says block cortisol and receptors will go up. So if Sugar really lowered secretion, then receptors should go up....which would lead us to believe that the down regulation in receptors is more acute then the down regulation in secretion.

I am not totally convinced of gbold's assertions about sugar, although I can see their reasoning, and even the results in people. He has said numerous times that Cortisol=sugar, which to me means feeding on sugar is basically similar to taking cortisol exogenously, although maybe not as significant. Lo and behold, some people who eat lots of sugar actually get cushing like symptoms; buffalo hump, pot belly, etc. So there is something there that sugar and cortisol are equivalent. And if so, then yes sugar should lower cortisol synthesis and receptors as it is basically standing in its stead. But then...why isn't that just great? Why would that lead some to type 2 diabetes and Cushing like symptoms? Really interesting though.

 

[TubZy]

@gbolduev

What is your take on MSM?

 

[Xisca]

Why are you worried about cortisol/cortisol receptors? Do you lab work indicating a dysfunction?

Stop trying to apply the concepts in this thread to you specifically, they are general concepts, not specific individualized treatments for you. There is a difference.

I do want to understand the concept, and as many, I do it through my feelings and issues, also because it is motivating...
I will say more about me and my cortisol and my pancreas later! And I got there through understanding the concepts.
Do not worry about advises, you can tell about concepts and I like it.

gbold says block cortisol and receptors will go up. So if Sugar really lowered secretion, then receptors should go up....w

I think I understand this one...
If you block cortisol from outside, it means you need it, thus the receptors will upregulate.
If secretion lowers because it is not needed, then receptors have no motivation to go up.
The need of the hormone is what has to fit inside the reasoning of the relationship between the hormone and the receptor.

 

[haidut]

Lo and behold, some people who eat lots of sugar actually get cushing like symptoms; buffalo hump, pot belly, etc. So there is something there that sugar and cortisol are equivalent. And if so, then yes sugar should lower cortisol synthesis and receptors as it is basically standing in its stead. But then...why isn't that just great? Why would that lead some to type 2 diabetes and Cushing like symptoms? Really interesting though.

Simple - insulin resistance due to excessive lipolysis so when there people eat sugar insulin rises a lot and cortisol always rises with insulin to protect from potential hypoglycemia. Lipolysis should be normalized before sugar can be properly metabolized without triggering an excessive insulin/cortisol response. All the people who suspect they have high cortisol should check insulin as well.

 

[moringa]

try to take different forms of b12 and see which one you react best to. I have no idea. I usually recommend shots to the sports people. Everyone who runs cycles so forth, take shots of b12. I just assumed that this could be your problem, Since the problem arose this quickly

my liver is acting up, its a bit swollen, its like if i touch the liver area its very sensitive, especially one small point is very sensitive just with light touch... should i get immediately a Sodiumthiosulphate or magnesium sulphate dose to cleanse the liver? or a castor oil pack, take some milk thistle?? or both?

and the small white spots that appeared on my abdominals are joining together forming larger white patches and around them are large brown patches...what the hell is this? is this B12 deficiency as well?

 

[Xisca]

my liver is acting up, its a bit swollen, its like if i touch the liver area its very sensitive, especially one small point is very sensitive just with light touch... should i get immediately a Sodiumthiosulphate or magnesium sulphate dose to cleanse the liver? or a castor oil pack, take some milk thistle?? or both?

and the small white spots that appeared on my abdominals are joining together forming larger white patches and around them are large brown patches...what the hell is this? is this B12 deficiency as well?

Go to the doctor!
With all this, they cannot say it is in your head.
There is a topic about liver leanse, and it has to be prepared, not just take the flush.

 

[moringa]

Go to the doctor!
With all this, they cannot say it is in your head.
There is a topic about liver leanse, and it has to be prepared, not just take the flush.

what can doctors do? make things worse

 

[Xisca]

You Kiding, they are not bad for everything! You have obvious symptoms! They can touch you, they can see your patches and colors, they can look for parasites in your liver etc! They will tell you if the pain is your gall bladder or not!
Do not wait for urgency! Doctors are good for urgencies, but you will be the one that will not be good!

 

[Tarmander]

I think I understand this one...
If you block cortisol from outside, it means you need it, thus the receptors will upregulate.
If secretion lowers because it is not needed, then receptors have no motivation to go up.
The need of the hormone is what has to fit inside the reasoning of the relationship between the hormone and the receptor.

That actually sounds somewhat plausible.

Simple - insulin resistance due to excessive lipolysis so when there people eat sugar insulin rises a lot and cortisol always rises with insulin to protect from potential hypoglycemia. Lipolysis should be normalized before sugar can be properly metabolized without triggering an excessive insulin/cortisol response. All the people who suspect they have high cortisol should check insulin as well.

Insulin is kind of a mystery though right? I have heard from some sources that it is in an antagonistic relationship with cortisol, and lowers lypolysis and cortisol, but obviously low blood sugar would raise adrenaline and cortisol. I wish Peat was more clear on insulin because sometimes it's great, sometimes it's terrible.

 

[Ledo]

The thing is, if we had both lowering of secretion and receptors, then according to Gbold, would not one cancel out the other? In other words, if you lower secretion, won't that up-regulate receptors? gbold says block cortisol and receptors will go up. So if Sugar really lowered secretion, then receptors should go up....which would lead us to believe that the down regulation in receptors is more acute then the down regulation in secretion.

I am not totally convinced of gbold's assertions about sugar, although I can see their reasoning, and even the results in people. He has said numerous times that Cortisol=sugar, which to me means feeding on sugar is basically similar to taking cortisol exogenously, although maybe not as significant. Lo and behold, some people who eat lots of sugar actually get cushing like symptoms; buffalo hump, pot belly, etc. So there is something there that sugar and cortisol are equivalent. And if so, then yes sugar should lower cortisol synthesis and receptors as it is basically standing in its stead. But then...why isn't that just great? Why would that lead some to type 2 diabetes and Cushing like symptoms? Really interesting though.

Good post Tarmander, er I mean good post detailing how back arsewards things have suddenly become. I thought Gbold revolutionized peat hormones by emphasizing the counter nature of substance and its receptor so with counter endocrinology you had to effect the system not by raising the hormone but flipping the state of its receptor to a more sensitive value? Maddyb says this is not that circumstance . this is just - hey, we need more substance and more sensitivity. But would not peat say the same thing. But to throw out an answer to your good question regarding sugar and cortisol being the equivalents as Gbold hints, maybe to much cortisol raising to much sugar can have the same bad effects as just taking to much sugar. Which puts us right back at peat who says to eat enough but not to much sugar just the right amount to attenuate the stress reaction from cortisol. So is this what @gbolduev means when he says peat has one case correct and this is why fast oxidizers should eat peat diet?

 

[haidut]

That actually sounds somewhat plausible.




Insulin is kind of a mystery though right? I have heard from some sources that it is in an antagonistic relationship with cortisol, and lowers lypolysis and cortisol, but obviously low blood sugar would raise adrenaline and cortisol. I wish Peat was more clear on insulin because sometimes it's great, sometimes it's terrible.

Yes, insulin and cortisol are antagonistic. That is why they rise together - to protect from the excess of the other. Insulin drops blood sugar and cortisol raises it.

 

[haidut]

Good post Tarmander, er I mean good post detailing how back arsewards things have suddenly become. I thought Gbold revolutionized peat hormones by emphasizing the counter nature of substance and its receptor so with counter endocrinology you had to effect the system not by raising the hormone but flipping the state of its receptor to a more sensitive value? Maddyb says this is not that circumstance . this is just - hey, we need more substance and more sensitivity. But would not peat say the same thing. But to throw out an answer to your good question regarding sugar and cortisol being the equivalents as Gbold hints, maybe to much cortisol raising to much sugar can have the same bad effects as just taking to much sugar. Which puts us right back at peat who says to eat enough but not to much sugar just the right amount to attenuate the stress reaction from cortisol. So is this what @gbolduev means when he says peat has one case correct and this is why fast oxidizers should eat peat diet?

The other way to achieve the same sensitization is to lower levels of those steroids that caused the downregulation in the first place. Like cortisol, prolactin, estrogen, serotonin, etc. Having fast metabolism does exactly that. I guess gbold is saying doing that is not for everybody, so I guess time will tell which approach works better.

 

[Ledo]

Simple - insulin resistance due to excessive lipolysis so when there people eat sugar insulin rises a lot and cortisol always rises with insulin to protect from potential hypoglycemia. Lipolysis should be normalized before sugar can be properly metabolized without triggering an excessive insulin/cortisol response. All the people who suspect they have high cortisol should check insulin as well.

How come excessive lipolisis wasn't a problem when the guy was younger? So the problem is demand side at the cell and not supply side (in all cases allowing for some people just start eating their head off as they get older) meaning the same fat energy balance was once okay but no longer so IR kicks in ?