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Dopaminergic Drugs Like Bromocriptine May Treat Alcoholilsm

haidut

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Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
18,832
Location
USA / Europe
This study is interesting for several reasons. On one hand, it combines well with previous studies on addiction I posted about - i.e. that "addiction" is a physiological state in which a person attempts to mitigate the effects of "inescapable stress" as animal studies commonly call the issue.
Addiction Linked To High Stress Hormones
Blocking cortisol may treat alcohol "addiction"
The Real Cause Of Addiction - Loneliness / Desperation
Adrenergic dysfunction may be the cause of all "addictions"

On the other hand, the study presents a bit of a contradiction to established "science" on "addiction" as up until now it was considered that dopamine was the culprit in the development of addiction and many unfortunate souls endured treatments with SSRI and dopamine antagonist drugs, usually with abysmal results. This study points out that activation of the dopamine receptors can actually treat alcohol addiction, and possible many other addictions. While the study carefully dances around the issue by saying that maybe activating D1 receptors may determine is a person becomes addicted (whatever that means) activation of the D2 receptors is likely therapeutic. Long story short - another big theory legacy of the 20th century dogma is likely to go down the drain and we may soon see Pfizer & Co. silently getting bromocriptine (powerful D2 agonist) approved for addiction treatments just like they are currently doing with terguride (a lisuride derivative) for fibrosis. It is also worth noting that activation of the dopamine receptors leads to blockage of the CRH signal and the entire cascade of stress including cortisol synthesis. Thanks to @tyw for so extensively explaining how bromocriptine does that! Not surprisingly, drugs like bromocriptine are well know to lower cortisol and are approved in some countries as treatments for Cushing disease. Thus, another strong piece of evidence points to "addiction" to being nothing more than a desperate attempt at medicating/controlling the chronic and inescapable stress that so many people are currently living in.

Want To Stop Drinking? Scientists Pinpoint Neurons That Could Prevent Alcoholism
Activation of D2 neurons may help decrease alcohol consumption, research shows

"...Researchers said D1 neurons are informally part of a "go" pathway in the brain. On the other hand, D2 neurons are part of the opposite or the "no-go" pathway. This means that when these neurons are activated, they can discourage a person's action, telling you to stop, to wait or to do nothing. Jun Wang, an assistant professor at the university and the corresponding author of the study, says D2 neurons are considered "good" from the perspective of addiction. When these neurons are turned on, they can inhibit drinking behavior. "Therefore, activating them is important for preventing problem drinking behavior," says Wang."

"...The research team manipulated the activity of D1 and D2 neurons in animal trials and were able to change the alcohol-drinking behavior of the animal models. By turning on the D2 neurons, the alcohol consumption was decreased. The more D2 neurons were activated, the stronger the effect."
 

natedawggh

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
649
This study is interesting for several reasons. On one hand, it combines well with previous studies on addiction I posted about - i.e. that "addiction" is a physiological state in which a person attempts to mitigate the effects of "inescapable stress" as animal studies commonly call the issue.
Addiction Linked To High Stress Hormones
Blocking cortisol may treat alcohol "addiction"
The Real Cause Of Addiction - Loneliness / Desperation
Adrenergic dysfunction may be the cause of all "addictions"

On the other hand, the study presents a bit of a contradiction to established "science" on "addiction" as up until now it was considered that dopamine was the culprit in the development of addiction and many unfortunate souls endured treatments with SSRI and dopamine antagonist drugs, usually with abysmal results. This study points out that activation of the dopamine receptors can actually treat alcohol addiction, and possible many other addictions. While the study carefully dances around the issue by saying that maybe activating D1 receptors may determine is a person becomes addicted (whatever that means) activation of the D2 receptors is likely therapeutic. Long story short - another big theory legacy of the 20th century dogma is likely to go down the drain and we may soon see Pfizer & Co. silently getting bromocriptine (powerful D2 agonist) approved for addiction treatments just like they are currently doing with terguride (a lisuride derivative) for fibrosis. It is also worth noting that activation of the dopamine receptors leads to blockage of the CRH signal and the entire cascade of stress including cortisol synthesis. Thanks to @tyw for so extensively explaining how bromocriptine does that! Not surprisingly, drugs like bromocriptine are well know to lower cortisol and are approved in some countries as treatments for Cushing disease. Thus, another strong piece of evidence points to "addiction" to being nothing more than a desperate attempt at medicating/controlling the chronic and inescapable stress that so many people are currently living in.

Want To Stop Drinking? Scientists Pinpoint Neurons That Could Prevent Alcoholism
Activation of D2 neurons may help decrease alcohol consumption, research shows

"...Researchers said D1 neurons are informally part of a "go" pathway in the brain. On the other hand, D2 neurons are part of the opposite or the "no-go" pathway. This means that when these neurons are activated, they can discourage a person's action, telling you to stop, to wait or to do nothing. Jun Wang, an assistant professor at the university and the corresponding author of the study, says D2 neurons are considered "good" from the perspective of addiction. When these neurons are turned on, they can inhibit drinking behavior. "Therefore, activating them is important for preventing problem drinking behavior," says Wang."

"...The research team manipulated the activity of D1 and D2 neurons in animal trials and were able to change the alcohol-drinking behavior of the animal models. By turning on the D2 neurons, the alcohol consumption was decreased. The more D2 neurons were activated, the stronger the effect."

As a recovered alcoholic I can definitively say I benefitted from dopaminergic substances--in my case high dose taurine, which is shown to elevate dopamine (I also used lysine to combat serotonin, which in doing also elevates dopamine---I'm sure you know all this haidut since I got most of the info from you) Recovering along side others who did no such therapy, mine was pretty easy and fast, while others I observed had quite a struggle and a great number of them relapsed. I continue to have an easy recovery with this kind of hormone focused diet and health regimen.
 

NathanK

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Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
678
Location
Austin, TX
This is peculiar. They are using DA to treat addiction and yet one of the most common sides with DA is compulsive and addictive behavior. Some people have even tried to have these drugs black boxed because of how serious it can get (I think people dont like telling their doctors of embarrassing behaviors like compulsive shopping, sex addiction, gambling, etc).

Anecdotally, I noticed less addictive behavior when I first tried cyproheptadine, which is a D2 antagonist.

I would think ropinirol would be a safer high D2 affinity dopamine agonist than bromocriptine since it is non ergot DA with no know serotonin or fibrosis/heart valve issues.
 

Peata

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Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
3,402
This is peculiar. They are using DA to treat addiction and yet one of the most common sides with DA is compulsive and addictive behavior. Some people have even tried to have these drugs black boxed because of how serious it can get (I think people dont like telling their doctors of embarrassing behaviors like compulsive shopping, sex addiction, gambling, etc).

Anecdotally, I noticed less addictive behavior when I first tried cyproheptadine, which is a D2 antagonist.

I would think ropinirol would be a safer high D2 affinity dopamine agonist than bromocriptine since it is non ergot DA with no know serotonin or fibrosis/heart valve issues.

I thought these compulsive behaviors were sought out because people were trying to feel dopamine? Induce "a shot" of dopamine, however you wanna say it. In other words, the activity (compulsive gambling for example) gave them the dopamine "high". I could be wrong, but maybe their bodies/brains are seeking this chemical that's out of balance. In a similar way, it's been said that drinkers are using alcohol to help make up for a thyroid deficiency or to quell stress hormones (even if they don't consciously know that's why they are seeking the drug for that).
 

Soren

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Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
1,453
What do we think would be the best supplements for the treatment of alcohol addiction.

Subject in question (not me) has all the classical symptoms of an organism trying to lower stress hormones and alcohol is the poison of choice. Clearly it is a vicious cycle for while the alcohol creates a temporary relief it makes it worse by increasing things like serotonin and cortisol and requiring a bigger dose as time goes on.

My thoughts would be supplements that lower cortisol, estrogen, serotonin and supplements that increase dopamine.

I want to use as few supplements as possible as subject in question is unlikely to want to take lots of supplements.

I believe that serotonin from poor gut health is one of the primary causes of addicition in this case.

The primary supplements I have looked at are; Lisuride, Metergoline and Ritanserin. Secondary ones are pregnenalone, dhea, and b vitamins such as thiamine and niacinamide.

My questions are if I were to pick just one of these supplements which would be the best one? I was thinking Metergoline or Lisuride, however I am worried about dopamine dependency.
 

tomisonbottom

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
907
As a recovered alcoholic I can definitively say I benefitted from dopaminergic substances--in my case high dose taurine, which is shown to elevate dopamine (I also used lysine to combat serotonin, which in doing also elevates dopamine---I'm sure you know all this haidut since I got most of the info from you).

How much Lysine and taurine did you take, and for how long?
 

Nick Borcic

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
285
Would taking dopamine agonists cause daws? Or reduced dopamine after taking the DA or would it just come back down to baseline? Assuming low dose is taking say of bromocriptine. I havent seen anything on it causing daws usually it's big doses or its ran over a course of months/years not weeks or a short time period.

In the bodybuilding world lyle McDonald wrote an entire book on bromocriptine and how it aids fat loss and I think what I got from it is that bromocriptine helps increase dopamine and regulates hunger and helps the system act normal whilst dieting. Helps keep cortisol in check, thyroid etc.
 

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