Alcohol "addiction" Driven By Endotoxin (TLR4)

[Wagner83]

Both Plato and especially Socrates have unattractive faces relative to Aristotle.

I disagree on Plato, I think he's more attractive/manly than Aristotle. Socrates is a pig though.

 

[jaa]

"A diet that consists predominantly of rice leads to the use of opium and narcotics, just as a diet that consists predominantly of potatoes leads to the use of liquor."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

That has to be a joke, right? If not, it's one of the dumbest connections I've ever seen made. That's not how causality works and that statement is easy to disprove, especially in modern times. I've lived in Thailand and have visited much of Asia I did not see much of an opium or narcotic problem compared to living in the west where much less rice is consumed. The Thai's do drink a lot though. Same for the Japanese and Koreans.

 

[DaveFoster]

That has to be a joke, right? If not, it's one of the dumbest connections I've ever seen made. That's not how causality works and that statement is easy to disprove, especially in modern times. I've lived in Thailand and have visited much of Asia I did not see much of an opium or narcotic problem compared to living in the west where much less rice is consumed. The Thai's do drink a lot though. Same for the Japanese and Koreans.

It was a bit of joke, but Nietzsche believed it to be true. If you read the quote in context, he talks about the use of vegetarian diets by religion and other power structures to dampen the vital force of the individual and weaken his resolve. He might be referring to protein, but as a fairly inflammatory and unhappy person, Nietzsche hardly models ideal behavior.

"A diet that consists predominantly of rice leads to the use of opium and narcotics, just as a diet that consists predominantly of potatoes leads to the use of alcohol. But it also has subtler effects that include ways of thinking and feeling that have narcotic effects. This agrees with the fact that those who promote narcotic ways of thinking and feeling, like some Indian Gurus, promote a diet that is entirely vegetarian and would like to impose that as a law upon the masses. In this way they want to create and strengthen a need that they are in a position to satisfy." (Nietzsche, The Gay Science, entry 145)
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South Germany/Swiss is where heads get very broad, and unsurprisingly this is where you get high IQs and the crazy spatial indexing mechanisms. High IQ, spatially oriented soulless people, who are great at manufacturing and literally eat dog to this very day. Sound familiar?

It's always entertaining to look through the directory of math professors at major universities, as it's always dominated by Central and Eastern European surnames, and of course John von Neumann, as well as Paul Eros (Jewish), and even further back the inventive monster Johann Gauss.

 

[lvysaur]

It was a bit of joke, but Nietzsche believed it to be true.

I think the only speck of truth there is that being deprived of something you crave (animal protein) causes you to seek dopaminergic substances. Anything regarding the specifics is irrelevant.

 

[jaa]

It was a bit of joke, but Nietzsche believed it to be true. If you read the quote in context, he talks about the use of vegetarian diets by religion and other power structures to dampen the vital force of the individual and weaken his resolve. He might be referring to protein, but as a fairly inflammatory and unhappy person, Nietzsche hardly models ideal behavior.

"A diet that consists predominantly of rice leads to the use of opium and narcotics, just as a diet that consists predominantly of potatoes leads to the use of alcohol. But it also has subtler effects that include ways of thinking and feeling that have narcotic effects. This agrees with the fact that those who promote narcotic ways of thinking and feeling, like some Indian Gurus, promote a diet that is entirely vegetarian and would like to impose that as a law upon the masses. In this way they want to create and strengthen a need that they are in a position to satisfy." (Nietzsche, The Gay Science, entry 145)
​

Yeah it is amusing. Still a specious observation. It seems like Neitzsche is doing little more than matching stereotypes to food type. Thanks for the context, I'll quit nitting about the reality of your joke

 

[haidut]

@haidut any clues about substances to combine with naltrexone? I mean theoretically - based on the action of the substance - what would you try if you were on LDN?

I guess if you are trying to block TLR4 then glycine could be safe addition. I think trying it with one of the anesthetics like procaine may potentiate its effects, assuming they don't have a bad interaction (which a pharmacist would know about).

 

[docall18]

Is the alcohol helping sterilise the gut; reducing bacteria, endotoxin & cortisol?

 

[jb116]

I guess if you are trying to block TLR4 then glycine could be safe addition. I think trying it with one of the anesthetics like procaine may potentiate its effects, assuming they don't have a bad interaction (which a pharmacist would know about).

Haidut didn't you also mention cholesterol such as lanosterol modulates TLR4, so that could be effective, no?

 

[EIRE24]

Is the alcohol helping sterilise the gut; reducing bacteria, endotoxin & cortisol?

I always wonder this myself. I always see improvements in my acne when I have a couple drinks of vodka

 

[Frankdee20]

I mostly use alcohol these days as a social lubricant, it definitely opens me up more, I’m more engaged in dialogue with others. It messes up my gut the next day if I have too much, vodka is easier on me than bourbon.

 

[EIRE24]

I mostly use alcohol these days as a social lubricant, it definitely opens me up more, I’m more engaged in dialogue with others. It messes up my gut the next day if I have too much, vodka is easier on me than bourbon.

Me and you are similar in that regard

 

[Frankdee20]

Me and you are similar in that regard

Yeah, if only I could learn to understand that it isn’t necessary to finish an entire 375 ml bottle, then on those occasions, I’d be fine. It really only takes roughly 1-200 ML to be okay in that scenario. My tolerance is high, I end up finishing the bottle when I get home. Unnecessary

 

[EIRE24]

Yeah, if only I could learn to understand that it isn’t necessary to finish an entire 375 ml bottle, then on those occasions, I’d be fine. It really only takes roughly 1-200 ML to be okay in that scenario. My tolerance is high, I end up finishing the bottle when I get home. Unnecessary

Wow, we are really alike in that regard then haha

 

[Frankdee20]

Wow, we are really alike in that regard then haha

Lol,

 

[Wagner83]

I mostly use alcohol these days as a social lubricant, it definitely opens me up more[...]

 

[Frankdee20]

Yeah, could you imagine

 

[sladerunner69]

"It is disgusting to notice the increase in the quantity of coffee used by my subjects, and the amount of money that goes out of the country as a consequence. Everybody is using coffee; this must be prevented. His Majesty was brought up on beer, and so were both his ancestors and officers. Many battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer, and the King does not believe that coffee-drinking soldiers can be relied upon to endure hardships in case of another war."

Frederick the Great

Food quotes from historical figures are always interesting ( not necessarily promoting this one btw ).

The beer before the 19th century had a very low alcohol percentage, usually around 0.5-1%. Also the starch in beer is so heavily fermented it becomes easier to digest, and it has B vitamins. The hops are estrogenic (and so is the ethanol) but Old World beers did not large amounts of hops to create a "bitter" flavor, that's a recent development. Hops used to be used sparingly, sort of like a spice, the bitterness units of classic ales and lagers is typically under 10ibus, whereas nowadays it's around 50 with some IPA's reaching for the triple digits...

That said, I don't care for beer, it's a poor man's beverage. In every sense. It's just liquefied, fermented bread, and has a flavor only a sailor could love.

 

[sladerunner69]

Wouldn't Middle-eastern cultures be both religious and authoritarian, and wouldn't Central Europeans (Germans mostly) historically be both oriented toward logic, religion, authoritarian governments, engineering and manufacturing?

I think he's talking about south-east asia with the dali's. Those cultures don't have a history of alcohol consumption like is found in Europe and the middle-east. I think food scarcity in general plays an important factor in the development of the cultural/ideological traits you're talking about.

 

[Frankdee20]

I love Stolychnaya. It’s Latvian milk.

 

[haidut]

Haidut didn't you also mention cholesterol such as lanosterol modulates TLR4, so that could be effective, no?

Yes, but I have not seen many studies on doses needed in humans. I think a few hundred milligrams should be enough for routine protection, with several grams likely needed to stop an acute endotoxin attack.