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Most People Recover From "addiction" On Their Own

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    We have discussed the issue of "addiction" many times on this forum. Starting with the "Rat Park" experiment in the 1970s, there have been numerous studies showing that "addiction" is nothing but a desperate attempt at self medication as a way to limit the effects of chronic stress.
    Addiction Linked To High Stress Hormones
    Stress Leads To Lower Dopamine And More Drinking

    The article below finally raises the serious question why is "addiction" defined as a serious disease (which of course generates a massive "treatment" industry) when the evidence from the majority of studies shows that most people will grow out of their addiction with time? While it is good to finally see some people demonstrate common sense and ask the right questions, a much better question would have been why do so many people struggle with "addiction" to begin with. If recovery without treatment is the norm rather than the exception then addiction is clearly not a genetic disease. So, is something in the environment making people develop "addiction". And if the answer is yes, could this environmental aspect be deliberately manipulated in order to preserve the massive industry that caters to the "addicted"? I think answer is rather obvious. Just like the "War on Drugs" or the "War on Cancer" this yet another "war" not only a complete bust but a rather fraudulent charade. Former President George H. W. Bush was spot on when he said "...if the American people ever find out what we have done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us."
    ‘Sarah, if the American people ever find out what we have done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us.’ That is a famous 1992 quote by George H W Bush to Sarah McLendon, a Texas journalist who Bush had known for years and who was the grand dame of the White House press corps at the time. : The_Donald
    While it was meant in a different context, I find that it applies to probably every major industry on which people depend for getting by.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3644798/pdf/fpsyt-04-00031.pdf
    Probability and predictors of remission from life-time prescription drug use disorders: results from the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol a... - PubMed - NCBI
    http://geneheyman.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/heymanannrevclinpsych13quitdrugs.pdf

    https://psmag.com/social-justice/people-addiction-simply-grow-widely-denied-91605
    "...According to the American Society of Addiction Medicine, addiction is “a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory, and related circuitry.” However, that’s not what the epidemiology of the disorder suggests. By age 35, half of all people who qualified for active alcoholism or addiction diagnoses during their teens and 20s no longer do, according to a study of over 42,000 Americans in a sample designed to represent the adult population."

    "...The average cocaine addiction lasts four years, the average marijuana addiction lasts six years, and the average alcohol addiction is resolved within 15 years. Heroin addictions tend to last as long as alcoholism, but prescription opioid problems, on average, last five years. In these large samples, which are drawn from the general population, only a quarter of people who recover have ever sought assistance in doing so (including via 12-step programs). This actually makes addictions the psychiatric disorder with the highest odds of recovery."

    "...While some addictions clearly do take a chronic course, this data, which replicates earlier research, suggests that many do not. And this remains true even for people like me, who have used drugs in such high, frequent doses and in such a compulsive fashion that it is hard to argue that we “weren’t really addicted.” I don’t know many non-addicts who shoot up 40 times a day, get suspended from college for dealing, and spend several months in a methadone program."

    "...Moreover, if addiction were truly a progressive disease, the data should show that the odds of quitting get worse over time. In fact, they remain the same on an annual basis, which means that as people get older, a higher and higher percentage wind up in recovery. If your addiction really is “doing push-ups” while you sit in AA meetings, it should get harder, not easier, to quit over time. (This is not an argument in favor of relapsing; it simply means that your odds of recovery actually get better with age!)"

    "...While treatment can often support the principles of natural recovery, too often it does the opposite. For example, many programs interfere with healthy family and romantic relationships by isolating patients. Some threaten employment and education, suggesting or even requiring that people quit jobs or school to “focus on recovery,” when doing so might do more harm than good. Others pay too much attention to getting people to take on an addict identity—rather than on harm related to drug use—when, in fact, looking at other facets of the self may be more helpful."
     
  2. Fractality

    Fractality Member

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    Yes, people get socially identified and treated as "addicts" and that becomes their identity; a type of self(socially?)-fulfilling prophecy. Most of medicine is "voodoo" or a modern form of witch doctoring.
     
  3. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Interesting feed, and thanks for sharing. I recall coming across the same assertion when I was seeking alternatives to AA. I came across Rational Recovery which teaches harm reduction techniques. I did not seek treatment, and perhaps just kind of grew out of my habitual use. Regardless, conventional treatment approaches that use the addiction is a disease paradigm have a vested interest in doing so. None can bolster success rates that are outstanding, but families are desperate to save their loved ones from such perilous things, so they fork up thousands upon thousands. For what ? 28 days of being sequestered in the mountains, group therapy, and maybe medications that could have easily been obtained through cheaper means. It is all bull****, take your health into your own hands, find your truth, heal your brain.
     
  4. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    I will say, some acute states of drug abuse do ravage the brain, and quitting becomes more difficult during such states. Downregulation, endocrine disruptions, environmental cues that have not faded, etc. Time heals all wounds.
     
  5. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    Excellent post haidut, thanks.

    Not that it provides any surprising statement for anyone who really has researched the topic, but for the scaremongers, puritans and bad psychiatrists/psychologists, it is a great paper to show to them.
     
  6. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    I think if more people knew about progesterone, alcohol usage would drastically go down. Especially for the people who drink mainly to relieve stress as opposed to the people who drink to party. Alcohol is nothing but imitation progesterone if you think about it.
     
  7. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Yes, and I loved Gabor Mate's book on the subject.

    I feel like you can tell how a person is suffering, physiologically speaking, from what they are addicted to - video games might be low dopamine, porn/masturbation might be high estrogen, smoking/coffee some combination of low DHT/metabolism... But what about alcohol? What specific relief does alcohol provide? I theorize it is relief from high DHT.

    The most driven men Ive known have been alcoholics (entrepreneurs), and masculine men in general seem to seek alcohol/spirits.

    thoughts @haidut ?
     
  8. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Alcohol is an NMDA blocker (lowering excess Glutamate) and enhances GABA levels (not via specific direct binding). It has effect upon multiple systems, and that is unique among drugs of abuse. The enforcing and rewarding effect of continued intake results from interaction with endorphin systems (that is why naltrexone helps alcoholism).
     
  9. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Excellent post. This reminds me of the story I heard of a small child that had a very high appetite for salt, some might even say "the boy had an addiction to salt."

    A GREAT CRAVING FOR SALT BY A CHILD WITH CORTICO-ADRENAL INSUFFICIENCY

    The story goes that the boy kept on eating as much salt as he could, even eating it straight out of the shaker. When he was in the hospital, and put on a low sodium diet, he died in a few days, and it was then discovered that the boy could not retain adequate sodium, and was essentially self medicating (and clearly, did a better job than doctors).

    Obviously, addictions to alcohol and heavy narcotics can be very damaging. But a big thing that always seems overlooked to me is..... what BENEFIT is the addict getting from the behavior? It might be something that can be replaced with a much safer option. Consider.... a heavy alcoholic may have some sort of bacterial infection or virus that is kept in check by drinking a liter of vodka each day. If the virus could be treated with an antibiotic of some sort, maybe that alcoholic would spontaneously lower their alcohol consumption by 90% or so, maybe even stop drinking altogether. Either could be a vast improvement.

    I also think nutritional support is overlooked. Approaches like "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross, and the Orthomolecular approach, even if some of the protocols may be flawed. I think this message from Abram Hoffer is at least a much better starting point than traditional rehab-

    Treatment Protocol for Alcoholism

    "Niacin is the most important single treatment for alcoholism, and it is one of the most reliable treatments. And it is safe, much safer than any of the modern psychiatric drugs. Niacin does not work as well when alcoholics are still drinking but in a few cases it has decreased the intake of alcohol until they were abstinent. This conclusion is based on the work my colleagues and I have done since 1953.

    "I know of many alcoholics who did not want to stop drinking, but did agree to take niacin. Over the years, they gradually were able to reduce their intake until they brought it under control. Some alcoholics can even become social drinkers on a very small scale. I have not found many who could. But I think that if started on the program very early, many more could achieve normalcy. I suspect that treatment centers using those ideas will be made available one day, and will be much more successful than the standard treatment today. This all too often still consists of dumping them into hospitals and letting them dry out, with severe pain and suffering. When they are discharged, most go right back to the alcohol, the most dangerous and widely used street drug available without a prescription."
     
  10. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    Excelent post! :clap:
     
  11. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Good point. I think low dopamine is associated with most "addictions", and mucuna pruriens powder (containing L-Dopa) could be useful
     
  12. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    A quote from Ray
     
  13. Soren

    Soren Member

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    Great post. I just posted in a thread I started about possible treatments for opioid withdrawl and recovery about red light therapy. There was a congressional hearing in the Fall of 2018 where a number of people spoke about the use of full body red light therapy for the treatment of opioid addiction.

    Seems clear to me that the reason for red light's benefits in addiction would be that it greatly relieves chronic stress on the body so the individual who may be suffering from addiction no longer feels the need to relieve this stress through other means.

    The founder of Thor Laser the creators of the NovoThor light bed and one of the oldest and biggest manufactures of laser light devices spoke in front of congress.

    I think the NovoThor and other Thor products are absurdly overpriced but it is good to see that things like red light might finally be breaking into the mainstream for treatments of things beyond cosmetic applications.

     
  14. bzmazu

    bzmazu Member

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    Another very enlightening post...thank you.
     
  15. Alex Jaramillo

    Alex Jaramillo Member

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    I would love to go back to having high DHT and having acne rather then my current state.
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    As @Frankdee20 mentioned, alcohol has powerful anti-stress and anti-depressant effects (short term). It blunts the cortisol response to stress, and alcoholics are known to have high cortisol. One of the threads I linked to in the OP talks about that. Glucocorticoid antagonists like RU486 are known to block alcoholic behavior, and other anti-cortisol chemicals like pregnenolone also do so, which suggests alcoholism is primarily a rapid-acting anti-stress measure. However, its long term effects (endotoxin and 5-HT3 agonism) are not benign even though they can be mitigated to a great degree with saturated fat and niacinamide.
    Glucocorticoid receptor antagonism decreases alcohol seeking in alcohol-dependent individuals
    Evaluation of mifepristone effects on alcohol-seeking and self-administration in baboons. - PubMed - NCBI
    Effects of the glucocorticoid antagonist, mifepristone, on the consequences of withdrawal from long term alcohol consumption. - PubMed - NCBI
    Mifepristone Pretreatment Reduces Ethanol Withdrawal Severity In Vivo
    Pregnenolone and ganaxolone reduce operant ethanol self-administration in alcohol-preferring p rats. - PubMed - NCBI
     
  17. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    I agree with this. I normally don't crave alcohol, unless I have a stressful day. I fantasize about drinking when I'm under mental stress or sleep deprived.
     
  18. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    Doesn't alcohol use increase bacterial endotoxin? I doubt you can treat a bacterial infection with a liter of vodka each day.
     
  19. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    I'm not suggesting anyone attempt to treat a bacterial infection with a liter of vodka a day. But, alcohol does have antibacterial properties. I don't know how effective it would be, but it could certainly have an effect against some types of infections or bacteria. It would certainly take a toll on a person. My point is that there is likely some benefit to "addiction," even if comes with a heavy price to other aspects of health and life.

    Anyway, people have tried more extreme measures on their own.... Man drinks gasoline for 42 years|China|chinadaily.com.cn
     
  20. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    I think alcohol would just make any bacterial or viral infection worse by increasing gut permeability. Alcohol probably just fools the body into thinking everything is ok since it raises GABA levels.
     
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