Covid 19 pneumonia

[AndrewGesell]

Hey,

New Ray Peat forum user, big Generative Energy fan.

My brother, Ben, came down with Covid last Monday. He went through the progression of the disease and his o2 dropped to 90 yesterday morning. We had him brought to the hospital where his vitals were checked. Thankfully was able to convince my parents to get o2 machine instead of leaving him there. Checked on him all last night - o2 fluctuating between 91 and 94. HIs fever went away and the pneumonia diagnosis was thankfully minimal (still bad).

Ben is 29 years old, 450 lbs, with no other major co-morbidities. We started him on ivermectin on Monday (day 7) 12 mg, far below the recommended dose of .6 per pound of body weight (digital doctor prescribed 42 mg daily). He took Gericare 325mg aspirin two days, but yesterday took 6mg of dexamethasone. I was able to get some doxycycline as well. Zinc 50 mg daily, probably 2000mg Vitamin C daily and 10k it’s Vitamin D now.

Some of you already responded to my profile post - thank you, Blossom and others for the useful information. I am faced with many questions on how to proceed. Continue Ivermectin regiment? Employ doxycycline? Aspirin or Dexamethasone? Alternative treatments like added coq10, cordyceps? None the doctor endorses - she has only suggested he wait until ICU for dexamethasone... His fever has started rising again to 101, he’s feeling nauseous and although his oxygen remains fine I don’t know what this will bring later tonight.

I feel my brother may be fighting for his life soon and I don’t want to wait until he’s in critical care to make decisions. Even then I would want a last ditch effort like Methylene blue (on hand) to be ready. Thoughts?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Sounds like you're on top of things. If it was me, I would do doxycycline because it has anti-inflammatory, antiviral and pro-ionophoric properties.

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Definitely aspirin. Pepcid (famotidine) is another option. HCQ + bromhexine/ambroxol (the former metabolizes to the latter) was very effective in Iran (but not quickly gotten in the US). Melatonin is a good antioxidant. If you haven't seen it already, but it looks like you have, look at the Frontline Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance treatment protocols.

Don't know where you live, but try to find a hospital that does everything it can to avoid mechanically ventilating patients. They exist, but this would be the time to find one.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Your doctor sounds worthless. Consider contacting SpeakwithanMD. They can diagnose, advise and prescribe. They might be able to tell you of a hospital near you that isn't quick on the trigger to intubate.

SpeakwithanMD.com | Your Trusted Source for Virtual Consultations - SpeakWithAnMD.com

speakwithanmd.com

 

[Mito]

https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/65b794a1-6ca1-4b57-bf6c-a75892966032-jpeg.21033/

Cyproheptadine For COVID-19

COVID-19 Role of Serotonin Toxicity on Neurologic and Cerebral Manifestations Proposed Role of Cyproheptadine Farid Jalali MD - Aug 2020 https://t.co/HgjcANDWmD

raypeatforum.com

 

[Perry Staltic]

Forgot about serotonin. Does your brother take any meds, supplements, OTC besides the ones you mentioned?

 

[David PS]

Hey,

New Ray Peat forum user, big Generative Energy fan.

My brother, Ben, came down with Covid last Monday. He went through the progression of the disease and his o2 dropped to 90 yesterday morning. We had him brought to the hospital where his vitals were checked. Thankfully was able to convince my parents to get o2 machine instead of leaving him there. Checked on him all last night - o2 fluctuating between 91 and 94. HIs fever went away and the pneumonia diagnosis was thankfully minimal (still bad).

Ben is 29 years old, 450 lbs, with no other major co-morbidities. We started him on ivermectin on Monday (day 7) 12 mg, far below the recommended dose of .6 per pound of body weight (digital doctor prescribed 42 mg daily). He took Gericare 325mg aspirin two days, but yesterday took 6mg of dexamethasone. I was able to get some doxycycline as well. Zinc 50 mg daily, probably 2000mg Vitamin C daily and 10k it’s Vitamin D now.

Some of you already responded to my profile post - thank you, Blossom and others for the useful information. I am faced with many questions on how to proceed. Continue Ivermectin regiment? Employ doxycycline? Aspirin or Dexamethasone? Alternative treatments like added coq10, cordyceps? None the doctor endorses - she has only suggested he wait until ICU for dexamethasone... His fever has started rising again to 101, he’s feeling nauseous and although his oxygen remains fine I don’t know what this will bring later tonight.

I feel my brother may be fighting for his life soon and I don’t want to wait until he’s in critical care to make decisions. Even then I would want a last ditch effort like Methylene blue (on hand) to be ready. Thoughts?

It looks like your doing a great job taking care of your brother. You might want to consider going higher in the amount of Vitamin D.

Vitamin D is powerful bullet against Covid. In the study linked below, they gave a bolus of 0.532 mg (about 20,000 iu) of vitamin D (via Calcifediol) to half the people after being admitted to the hospital. Some of the patients had pneumonia. Patients in the calcifediol treatment group continued with oral calcifediol (0.266 mg) on day 3 and 7, and then weekly until discharge or ICU admission. Of the patients treated with calcifediol, none died, and all were discharged, without complications. see

“Effect of calcifediol treatment and best available therapy versus best available therapy on intensive care unit admission and mortality among patients hospitalized for COVID-19: A pilot randomized clinical study”​

In addition, obsese people need more vitamin D than normal weight people.

Vitamin D in obesity - PubMed

Lower vitamin D in obese people is a consistent finding across age, ethnicity, and geography. This may not always reflect a clinical problem. Obese people need higher loading doses of vitamin D to achieve the same serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D as normal weight.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Decreased bioavailability of vitamin D in obesity - PubMed

Obesity-associated vitamin D insufficiency is likely due to the decreased bioavailability of vitamin D(3) from cutaneous and dietary sources because of its deposition in body fat compartments.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[AndrewGesell]

Sounds like you're on top of things. If it was me, I would do doxycycline because it has anti-inflammatory, antiviral and pro-ionophoric properties.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.

journals.sagepub.com

Definitely aspirin. Pepcid (famotidine) is another option. HCQ + bromhexine/ambroxol (the former metabolizes to the latter) was very effective in Iran (but not quickly gotten in the US). Melatonin is a good antioxidant. If you haven't seen it already, but it looks like you have, look at the Frontline Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance treatment protocols.

Don't know where you live, but try to find a hospital that does everything it can to avoid mechanically ventilating patients. They exist, but this would be the time to find one.

Thanks for the advice. If it gets to that point we definitely will advocate for all except ventilation. I don’t think my mom would buy the antiviral argument for doxy but will look into ionophorism. That URL does not work.

Not dexamathasone? The critical care alliance and others recommend either methylprednisone or Dexamethasone. How late can we wait for such a powerful steroid? Or are you saying it’s better to continue aspirin and add the respiratory steroid bromhexine?

 

[AndrewGesell]

Forgot about serotonin. Does your brother take any meds, supplements, OTC besides the ones you mentioned?

No medications. Just ivermectin, quercitin, Vit D, Zinc, musinex and that’s pretty much it. He did 6mg of dexamethasone yesterday. Not sure if that helped.

 

[gaze]

when he starts to get a little out of breath, maybe some OJ with salt? keeping blood sugars up will be important. Breathing into a bag may help for acute breathlessness. a raw grated carrot salad with some vinegar might be able to reduce a bit of the endotoxin load. Of course these are all for acute situations, those other medications are still necessary for the long term. The more he can empty his bowels the better. erythromycin is a antibiotic that stimulates the intestines and is anti inflammatory, although It may be hard to get and the rest of your family may not want to give antibiotics

 

[Perry Staltic]

Thanks for the advice. If it gets to that point we definitely will advocate for all except ventilation. I don’t think my mom would buy the antiviral argument for doxy but will look into ionophorism. That URL does not work.

Not dexamathasone? The critical care alliance and others recommend either methylprednisone or Dexamethasone. How late can we wait for such a powerful steroid? Or are you saying it’s better to continue aspirin and add the respiratory steroid bromhexine?

Link works for me (right click, open in new tab). I have an MD friend that told me about doxy's other properties, and they're described in that link.

I have no opinion on dexamethasone. I wouldn't use it myself, but if I was in a hospital I would probably say yes. However, I would definitely steer clear of methylprednisolone. It's apparently effective, but it can have some serious side effects. They used it quite a bit for SARS and lots of people got osteonecrosis (bone death) several months afterwards. I can post a video of someone who was treated with it by one of the critical care alliance doctors (Dr Varone), and got better, but then had really bad symptoms a month of two later.

Bromhexine and Ambroxol are mucolytic drugs. Not available in the US, but you can order it from overseas (Thailand, Lithuania, etc). They supposedly stop virus from binding to the TMPRSS2 protein. I wouldn't worry about it at this point.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Have him flip onto his belly to see if his blood sat goes up. It's called proning and can be very effective at keeping O2 levels up.

 

[Perry Staltic]

That URL does not work

Here's that URL disabled. Just change [dot] to "." > https://journals.sagepub[dot]com/doi/full/10.1177/1753466620951053

 

[Perry Staltic]

Read this if you want to know about the bad side effects of methylprednisolone during SARS.

http://theinfectiousmyth.com/book/SARS.pdf

 

[Perry Staltic]

If your brother does have to go to the hospital be very sure to warn the doctor(s) to not give him serotonergic drugs. A common antiviral treatment they give is the antiviral combo lopinavir/ritonavir. Ritonavir is serotonergic. So are some antiemetics. Mechanical ventilation activates platelets via barotrauma, which then release serotonin into the blood. They frequently use serotonergic drugs like fentanyl to put patients into a coma when ventilating. Serotonin is elevated in all covid patients. It's vicious, deadly cycle.

Serotonin syndrome in two COVID-19 patients treated with lopinavir/ritonavir | Request PDF

Request PDF | On May 1, 2020, Miguel Mas Serrano and others published Serotonin syndrome in two COVID-19 patients treated with lopinavir/ritonavir | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[AndrewGesell]

If your brother does have to go to the hospital be very sure to warn the doctor(s) to not give him serotonergic drugs. A common antiviral treatment they give is the antiviral combo lopinavir/ritonavir. Ritonavir is serotonergic. So are some antiemetics. Mechanical ventilation activates platelets via barotrauma, which then release serotonin into the blood. They frequently use serotonergic drugs like fentanyl to put patients into a coma when ventilating. Serotonin is elevated in all covid patients. It's vicious, deadly cycle.

Serotonin syndrome in two COVID-19 patients treated with lopinavir/ritonavir | Request PDF

Request PDF | On May 1, 2020, Miguel Mas Serrano and others published Serotonin syndrome in two COVID-19 patients treated with lopinavir/ritonavir | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Beautiful. Thanks for all the info on the ventilation. I had a bad Seratonin syndrome during my own infection - best to avoid.

 

[Giraffe]

Continue Ivermectin regiment?

I read that it should be given for two days (12 mg per day). What does the package insert say?

Here is the source with some links: On the Treatment of Covid-19

yesterday took 6mg of dexamethasone

I wouldn't want to use an immunosuppresant,

Have you considered red light therapy?

Red Light, Infrared, LLLT

raypeatforum.com

 

[Perry Staltic]

Two other things to consider are nebulized budesonide and nebulized hydrogen peroxide. The former is prescription (pulmicort respules); the latter you can make yourself with food grade H2O2, and it is supposedly good against all kinds of respiratory illnesses. Dr Mercola has a good video about how to do it.

A guy I talked with the other day said his mother has covid and her doctor gave here vitamins C & D, zinc and dexamethasone, so I guess they do give dex to people early.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Losartan can be a huge help.

 

[RealNeat]

Is he on any other pharma drugs particularly diabetes or cholesterol? Also sometimes less is more. Aspirin at reasonable doses is quite a powerful drug for these things even without other things, besides antibiotics if truly needed for secondary infections. Can you be more detailed with the "usual progression of the disease," many people present in many different ways. The order of symptoms matter for proper diagnosis as I dont think sarscov2 is the root issue, the viral presence is gone after about 3 days. Depending on how bad the pollution is where you live there might be a high correlation, as outcomes seem directly tied to it.

 

[Ania]

In Poland there are several doctors who treat Covid patients with Amantadine hydrochloridum with great success. Even some people from government admitted publicly that they were cured with amantadine. It has been a hot topic here and due to pressure from society they now started a clinical trial. The testimonials are very impressive, people get better within matter of hours. Unfortunately, all materials available are in Polish only. The doctor who started amantadine has published very detailed protocol. https://przychodnia-przemysl.pl/mozna-wyleczyc-covid-19-w-48-godzin/ If you use Google translator, you can get most of it I think. Of course he best results are when used early, when pneumonia develops antibiotics are also needed to aid amantadine.