GenericName86
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- Jun 30, 2018
- Messages
- 338
Also with Vitamin C being more and more talked about I've seen more "experts" come out saying it's no good because high doses stops kidneys from clearing properly?
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S.Seneff
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A recent Chinese survey revealed that the median duration of viral shedding was 20.0 days
(IQR 17.0–24.0) in survivors, but SARS-CoV-2 was detectable until death in non-survivors.
The shortest observed duration of viral shedding among survivors was eight days, whereas the
longest was 37 days (18). Therefore, a treatment enabling the viral carriage to be cleared and
COVID-patients to be clinically cured at an early stage would help limit the transmission of
the virus.
COVID treatment
Patients with no contraindications (Supplementary document 1) were offered a combination
of 200 mg of oral hydroxychloroquine sulfate, three times per day for ten days combined with
azithromycin (500mg on D1 followed by 250mg per day for the next four days). For patients
with pneumonia and NEWS score≥5, a broad spectrum antibiotic (ceftriaxone) was added to
hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. Twelve-lead electrocardiograms (ECG) were
performed on each patient before treatment and two days after treatment began. All ECGs
were reviewed by senior cardiologists. The treatment was either not started or discontinued
when the QTc (Bazett’s formula) was > 500 ms and the risk-benefit ratio was estimated to be
between 460 and 500 ms. The treatment was not started when the ECG showed patterns
suggesting a channelopathy and the risk-benefit ratio was discussed when it showed other
significant abnormalities (i.e., pathological Q waves, left ventricular hypertrophy, left bundle
branch block). In addition, any drug potentially prolonging the QT interval was discontinued
during treatment. Symptomatic treatments, including oxygen, were added when needed. An
ionogram and verification of serum potassium levels in particular, was systematically
performed upon admission. When needed, standard blood chemistry was checked.
Criteria for discharge
Criteria for discharge changed over the course of the study. Initially, patients with two
successive negative nasopharyngeal samples resulting from PCR assay (CT value ≥35) were
discharged. From 18 March, patients with a single nasopharyngeal sample with a PCR CT
value ≥34 were discharged to their homes or transferred to other units for continuing
treatment, Ultimately, because of a crucial need to admit new, untreated inpatients, inpatients
already receiving treatment with a PCR CT value <34, with good clinical outcome and good
adherence to treatment were also discharged. When possible, further follow-up was continued
in other units or through out-patient consultations.
Contagiousness as assessed by PCR Ct value and culture (Figures 1 and 2)
A rapid fall of nasopharyngeal viral load tested by qPCR was noted, with 83% negative at
was observed after six days of treatment. After ten days, two patients only were still
presumably contagious with Ct values of 32 and 29 respectively. The proportion of patients
with a Ct value >34 significantly decreased overtime (R2 = 0.9). Virus cultures from patient
respiratory samples were negative in 97.5% patients at Day5. The number of contagious
patients (with positive culture) early decreased after three days of treatment (Figure 2). After
five days of treatment, two patients only were contagious. On Day8 post-treatment only one
of these two patients was contagious and ceased to be contagious on Day9. The proportion of
negative culture significantly decreased overtime (R
2 = 0.8).
Day7, and 93% at Day8. The number of patients presumably contagious (with a PCR Ct value
<34) steadily decreased overtime and reached zero on Day12 (Figure 1). A marked decrease
These data are important to compare with that of
the literature which shows that the viral RNA load can remain high for about three weeks in
most patients in the absence of specific treatment (18;22)
The second challenge is the rapid spread of the disease in the population through contagious
individuals. The elimination of viral carriage in the human reservoir of the virus has recently
been recognised as a priority (25).
Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are extremely well-known drugs which have already
been prescribed to billions of people. Because of anecdotical reports of heart complications
with such drugs in patients with underlying conditions, it would be useful to perform an ECG
before or at the very beginning of the treatment (26). This problem is solved by hospitalising
patients at risk with multiples pathogens in continuing care units with ECG monitoring
allowing for the early detection and treatment of these rare but possible cardiac side-effects.
Azithromycin is the drug that has been the most widely prescribed against respiratory
infections and a recent (2010) study showed that one in eight American out-patients, has been
prescribed azithromycin (27). Indeed, there have probably been more than a billion
azithromycin prescriptions around the world since it was first discovered. The toxicity of each
of these two drugs does not, therefore, pose a major problem. Their possible toxicity in
combination has been suggested in a few anecdotal reports but, to our knowledge, has never
been demonstrated.
In conclusion, we confirm the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine associated with azithromycin
in the treatment of COVID-19 and its potential effectiveness in the early impairment of
contagiousness. Given the urgent therapeutic need to manage this disease with effective and
safe drugs and given the negligible cost of both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, we
believe that other teams should urgently evaluate this therapeutic strategy both to avoid the
spread of the disease and to treat patients before severe irreversible respiratory complications
take hold.
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf
(IQR 17.0–24.0) in survivors, but SARS-CoV-2 was detectable until death in non-survivors.
The shortest observed duration of viral shedding among survivors was eight days, whereas the
longest was 37 days (18). Therefore, a treatment enabling the viral carriage to be cleared and
COVID-patients to be clinically cured at an early stage would help limit the transmission of
the virus.
COVID treatment
Patients with no contraindications (Supplementary document 1) were offered a combination
of 200 mg of oral hydroxychloroquine sulfate, three times per day for ten days combined with
azithromycin (500mg on D1 followed by 250mg per day for the next four days). For patients
with pneumonia and NEWS score≥5, a broad spectrum antibiotic (ceftriaxone) was added to
hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. Twelve-lead electrocardiograms (ECG) were
performed on each patient before treatment and two days after treatment began. All ECGs
were reviewed by senior cardiologists. The treatment was either not started or discontinued
when the QTc (Bazett’s formula) was > 500 ms and the risk-benefit ratio was estimated to be
between 460 and 500 ms. The treatment was not started when the ECG showed patterns
suggesting a channelopathy and the risk-benefit ratio was discussed when it showed other
significant abnormalities (i.e., pathological Q waves, left ventricular hypertrophy, left bundle
branch block). In addition, any drug potentially prolonging the QT interval was discontinued
during treatment. Symptomatic treatments, including oxygen, were added when needed. An
ionogram and verification of serum potassium levels in particular, was systematically
performed upon admission. When needed, standard blood chemistry was checked.
Criteria for discharge
Criteria for discharge changed over the course of the study. Initially, patients with two
successive negative nasopharyngeal samples resulting from PCR assay (CT value ≥35) were
discharged. From 18 March, patients with a single nasopharyngeal sample with a PCR CT
value ≥34 were discharged to their homes or transferred to other units for continuing
treatment, Ultimately, because of a crucial need to admit new, untreated inpatients, inpatients
already receiving treatment with a PCR CT value <34, with good clinical outcome and good
adherence to treatment were also discharged. When possible, further follow-up was continued
in other units or through out-patient consultations.
Contagiousness as assessed by PCR Ct value and culture (Figures 1 and 2)
A rapid fall of nasopharyngeal viral load tested by qPCR was noted, with 83% negative at
was observed after six days of treatment. After ten days, two patients only were still
presumably contagious with Ct values of 32 and 29 respectively. The proportion of patients
with a Ct value >34 significantly decreased overtime (R2 = 0.9). Virus cultures from patient
respiratory samples were negative in 97.5% patients at Day5. The number of contagious
patients (with positive culture) early decreased after three days of treatment (Figure 2). After
five days of treatment, two patients only were contagious. On Day8 post-treatment only one
of these two patients was contagious and ceased to be contagious on Day9. The proportion of
negative culture significantly decreased overtime (R
2 = 0.8).
Day7, and 93% at Day8. The number of patients presumably contagious (with a PCR Ct value
<34) steadily decreased overtime and reached zero on Day12 (Figure 1). A marked decrease
These data are important to compare with that of
the literature which shows that the viral RNA load can remain high for about three weeks in
most patients in the absence of specific treatment (18;22)
The second challenge is the rapid spread of the disease in the population through contagious
individuals. The elimination of viral carriage in the human reservoir of the virus has recently
been recognised as a priority (25).
Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are extremely well-known drugs which have already
been prescribed to billions of people. Because of anecdotical reports of heart complications
with such drugs in patients with underlying conditions, it would be useful to perform an ECG
before or at the very beginning of the treatment (26). This problem is solved by hospitalising
patients at risk with multiples pathogens in continuing care units with ECG monitoring
allowing for the early detection and treatment of these rare but possible cardiac side-effects.
Azithromycin is the drug that has been the most widely prescribed against respiratory
infections and a recent (2010) study showed that one in eight American out-patients, has been
prescribed azithromycin (27). Indeed, there have probably been more than a billion
azithromycin prescriptions around the world since it was first discovered. The toxicity of each
of these two drugs does not, therefore, pose a major problem. Their possible toxicity in
combination has been suggested in a few anecdotal reports but, to our knowledge, has never
been demonstrated.
In conclusion, we confirm the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine associated with azithromycin
in the treatment of COVID-19 and its potential effectiveness in the early impairment of
contagiousness. Given the urgent therapeutic need to manage this disease with effective and
safe drugs and given the negligible cost of both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, we
believe that other teams should urgently evaluate this therapeutic strategy both to avoid the
spread of the disease and to treat patients before severe irreversible respiratory complications
take hold.
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf
LeeLemonoil
Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2016
- Messages
- 4,265
Olive leaf extract seems to be anti-viral „directly“, without meddling with the host immune response and tissue by attacking the viral abilities to become proteolytic. See links provided above.
I read that outbreaks in Italy and Madrid (which sees many deads) are suspected to originate in nursing homes and hospitals.
I can only square the higher death-rates there with theses circumstances.
The virus attacks a weakened host organism and has more time to proliferate. Also, old and sick patients often show a deranged immune-response a la cytokine storm. I suspect that a massive inflammatory immune response actually helps the virus to become more aggressive or mutate even, it’s a known mechanism of some viruses that humans can’t handle well.
So, in a nursing home you might find a more aggressive, infectious virus, that exists for a longer Time in the host (which probsbly also increases infectiousness, transmission)
and is surrounded by many other potential ideal hosts/victims.
Take on the other end of the spectrum populations like in Germany with relatively few severe cases.
More testing led to isolation of transmitters ave the virus doesn’t find such a vulnerable, target rich environment there.
How and why the virus set put originally in nursing homes or not and with it the subsequent development might simply be a matter of chance / bad luck
I read that outbreaks in Italy and Madrid (which sees many deads) are suspected to originate in nursing homes and hospitals.
I can only square the higher death-rates there with theses circumstances.
The virus attacks a weakened host organism and has more time to proliferate. Also, old and sick patients often show a deranged immune-response a la cytokine storm. I suspect that a massive inflammatory immune response actually helps the virus to become more aggressive or mutate even, it’s a known mechanism of some viruses that humans can’t handle well.
So, in a nursing home you might find a more aggressive, infectious virus, that exists for a longer Time in the host (which probsbly also increases infectiousness, transmission)
and is surrounded by many other potential ideal hosts/victims.
Take on the other end of the spectrum populations like in Germany with relatively few severe cases.
More testing led to isolation of transmitters ave the virus doesn’t find such a vulnerable, target rich environment there.
How and why the virus set put originally in nursing homes or not and with it the subsequent development might simply be a matter of chance / bad luck
S.Seneff
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2020
- Messages
- 215
Energy drinks : another cause of QT prolongation ?
Energy Drinks: Another Cause of QT Prolongation?
Energy Drinks: Another Cause of QT Prolongation?
How much Lysine have you taken to get that effect?
I started taking some today as I have some olive leaf extract capsule.
I actually have mild flu like symptoms for several days now.
Do you have a link to that sir? am interested to read....
M
metabolizm
Guest
If I feel an outbreak coming, I’ll usually take a 1-1.5g dose. That often stops it altogether. Otherwise I’ll usually take 500mg three times a day, or more, and that massively speeds up the healing process.
David PS
Member
I am glad that this strategy works for you. I think that it may be best to make sure that you get more lysine than arginine in your diet. You may find that you do not need to supplement everyday.
It is the ratio of the two amino acids that counts. Supplementation with lysine can change the ratio and that is one way to keep the level of the viruses low. The other way is to keep arginine low. Chronometer can show you how much of lysine and arginine is in your diet. Here is a pdf if you want to plan ahead to insure that your ratio for the day will be desirable.
http://eiwellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Lysine-and-Arginine-Food-Guide.pdf
M
metabolizm
Guest
Yes, I only really supplement lysine when I get a coldsore outbreak, which is less common now that I try to get it in my diet, and try to keep arginine in balance.
2 weak points stand out for Virus infections.
1. Hijack the cell metabolism to be more proliferative (so that the Virus can leverage biosynthetic metabolites & proliferate itself).
2. Inflammatory response of the immune system.
So the following simple therapy would be a great start.
1. Thiamine - Glycolysis Inhibitor.
2. Cannabidiol _ Glutamine uptake inhibitor.
3. Inflammation Inhibitor - EGCG (Also inhibitor of CCR5, the primary target of the latest wonder drug candidate LeronLimab for CoronaVirus)
1. Hijack the cell metabolism to be more proliferative (so that the Virus can leverage biosynthetic metabolites & proliferate itself).
2. Inflammatory response of the immune system.
So the following simple therapy would be a great start.
1. Thiamine - Glycolysis Inhibitor.
2. Cannabidiol _ Glutamine uptake inhibitor.
3. Inflammation Inhibitor - EGCG (Also inhibitor of CCR5, the primary target of the latest wonder drug candidate LeronLimab for CoronaVirus)
S.Seneff
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2020
- Messages
- 215
Meplazumab treats COVID-19 pneumonia: an open-labelled, concurrent controlled add-on clinical trial
Abstract
: SARS-CoV-2 is a novel human coronavirus, there is no specific antiviral drugs. It has been proved that host-cell-expressed CD147 could bind spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 and involve in host cell invasion. Antibody against CD147 could block the infection of SARS-CoV-2. We aimed to assess the efficacy and safety of meplazumab, a humanized anti-CD147 antibody, as add-on therapy in patients with COVID-19 pneumonia. Methods: All patients received recommended strategy from Diagnosis and Treatment for 2019 Novel Coronavirus Diseases released by National Health Commission of China. Eligible patients were add-on administered 10 mg meplazumab intravenously at days 1, 2, and 5. Patients hospitalized in the same period were observed as concurrent control. The endpoints include virological clearance rate, case severity, chest radiographic, and laboratory test. This trial was approved by the Ethics Committee of Institution at the Tangdu hospital, and registered with ClinicalTrials.gov, NCT 04275245. Findings:17 patients were enrolled and assigned to meplazumab group between Feb 3, 2020 and Feb 10, 2020. 11 hospitalized patients served as concurrent control. Baseline characteristics were generally balanced across two groups. Compared to control group, meplazumab treatment significantly improved the discharged (p=0.006) and case severity (p=0.021) in critical and severe patients. The time to virus negative in meplazumab group was reduced than that in control group (median 3, 95%CI[1.5-4.5] vs. 13, [6.5-19.5]; p=0.014, HR=0.37, 95%CI[0.155-0.833]). The percentages of patients recovered to the normal lymphocyte count and CRP concentration were also increased remarkably and rapidly in meplazumab group. No adverse effect was found in meplazumab-treated patients. Interpretation:Meplazumab efficiently improved the recovery of patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia with a favorable safety profile. Our results support to carry out a large-scale investigation of meplazumab as a treatment for COVID-19 pneumonia. Funding:National Science and Technology Major Project.
Competing Interest Statement
PZ, ZNC, HB, and ZZ were the inventors of the patent Humanized Anti-Basigin Antibodies and the Use Thereof (PCT/CN2017/082713), and all of the above authors were not the applicant or patentee of the patent. PZ, ZNC, HB, DW, ZZ, and XMY were the inventors of patent Humanized Anti-Basigin Antibody for use of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) therapy (202010166717.9, China), and all of the above authors were not the applicant or patentee of the patent. Other authors declare no competing interests.
Meplazumab treats COVID-19 pneumonia: an open-labelled, concurrent controlled add-on clinical trial
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Opioidus
Member
- Joined
- May 22, 2019
- Messages
- 155
Update III : so I went back to the hospital for my persistent chest pain. Huge mistake as the hospital was completely overrun this time. I had to wait for three hours to be examined, this is way beyond the norm in here, last time I was examined within 15 minutes. They had no beds with those big hospital ventilators next to them, last time they immediately put me on one of those beds, instead, they had a bunch of bi-pap machines that looked like home devices next to newly made beds.
There wasn't a special wing designed for corona patients like last time, the entire hospital had become a huge corona wing, with beds everywhere. There was one guy that was really bad and his situation was just horrible, he was very young too, younger than me for sure(I'm in my 30s). He was jumping up and down on his bed gasping for air and waving his hands frantically, fighting invisible enemies and asking for help. It looked really really horrible. I have no idea how these doctors and nurses stay sane and keep coming back to work. They couldn't do anything for him as he was able to still "breath" on his own, he wasn't hooked to a machine just oxygen.
I couldn't wait there for long and went outside to a special area they have designed with open-air that's for patients that are better, I would check back every ten minutes or so to see if the doctor had become available.
Anyway, the doctor finally came and took my bp and listened to my breathing and wrote another chest ct from my lungs and heart. The ct showed medium lung involvement but no heart enlargement. He asked whether I want to start treatment with chloroquine and be admitted or can I go home. I just wanted to gtho of there asap so I refused. He said I should immediately get back and start treatment if I get even slightly worse. He also reviewed the other doctor's recommendations and said I should stop taking vitamins c, d and e because they put a strain on my body. There was no time to ask him about other things I've started taking like reishi and b complex.
Yesterday I didn't take any vitamins but instead took around 10-15 grams of dried reishi mushroom about 5 hours before bed. Last night was the first night in two weeks that I didn't wake up gasping for air several times. Very glad about that. Also, my chest pain has become more centralized and is no longer located on the left side.
Today I had shortness of breath all day long but it wasn't as bad as say, five or six days ago. This is by far the longest I have been sick and it's definitely the strongest bug I have ever had. It is incredible that more than two weeks after the start of my symptoms I sometimes feel like the disease is making a comeback, like it's moving to another part of my body or reinfecting my vocal cords and so on..
I should also mention that I have several underlying conditions, I have psoriasis and I've struggled with fatigue, cold body and ADHD like symptoms all my life. I've been diagnosed with hypothyroidism one and was on t4 by a general practitioner for three months but then I went to a specialist who decided to discontinue, this was years ago btw. I don't get sick that often but when I do it is usually more severe than my GF or family members. For example last year I got the flu from my GF and had to go to the hospital and was off work for a whole week while she just took one day off work and was back on her feet after two days rest. My diet has been horrible these past few weeks because my GF usually does the cooking. I've been eating crappy microwave soup and pasta and fruits and chese puffs and chips!
Stay healthy folks.
There wasn't a special wing designed for corona patients like last time, the entire hospital had become a huge corona wing, with beds everywhere. There was one guy that was really bad and his situation was just horrible, he was very young too, younger than me for sure(I'm in my 30s). He was jumping up and down on his bed gasping for air and waving his hands frantically, fighting invisible enemies and asking for help. It looked really really horrible. I have no idea how these doctors and nurses stay sane and keep coming back to work. They couldn't do anything for him as he was able to still "breath" on his own, he wasn't hooked to a machine just oxygen.
I couldn't wait there for long and went outside to a special area they have designed with open-air that's for patients that are better, I would check back every ten minutes or so to see if the doctor had become available.
Anyway, the doctor finally came and took my bp and listened to my breathing and wrote another chest ct from my lungs and heart. The ct showed medium lung involvement but no heart enlargement. He asked whether I want to start treatment with chloroquine and be admitted or can I go home. I just wanted to gtho of there asap so I refused. He said I should immediately get back and start treatment if I get even slightly worse. He also reviewed the other doctor's recommendations and said I should stop taking vitamins c, d and e because they put a strain on my body. There was no time to ask him about other things I've started taking like reishi and b complex.
Yesterday I didn't take any vitamins but instead took around 10-15 grams of dried reishi mushroom about 5 hours before bed. Last night was the first night in two weeks that I didn't wake up gasping for air several times. Very glad about that. Also, my chest pain has become more centralized and is no longer located on the left side.
Today I had shortness of breath all day long but it wasn't as bad as say, five or six days ago. This is by far the longest I have been sick and it's definitely the strongest bug I have ever had. It is incredible that more than two weeks after the start of my symptoms I sometimes feel like the disease is making a comeback, like it's moving to another part of my body or reinfecting my vocal cords and so on..
I should also mention that I have several underlying conditions, I have psoriasis and I've struggled with fatigue, cold body and ADHD like symptoms all my life. I've been diagnosed with hypothyroidism one and was on t4 by a general practitioner for three months but then I went to a specialist who decided to discontinue, this was years ago btw. I don't get sick that often but when I do it is usually more severe than my GF or family members. For example last year I got the flu from my GF and had to go to the hospital and was off work for a whole week while she just took one day off work and was back on her feet after two days rest. My diet has been horrible these past few weeks because my GF usually does the cooking. I've been eating crappy microwave soup and pasta and fruits and chese puffs and chips!
Stay healthy folks.
Tristan Loscha
Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2018
- Messages
- 2,206
Update III : so I went back to the hospital for my persistent chest pain. Huge mistake as the hospital was completely overrun this time. I had to wait for three hours to be examined, this is way beyond the norm in here, last time I was examined within 15 minutes. They had no beds with those big hospital ventilators next to them, last time they immediately put me on one of those beds, instead, they had a bunch of bi-pap machines that looked like home devices next to newly made beds.
There wasn't a special wing designed for corona patients like last time, the entire hospital had become a huge corona wing, with beds everywhere. There was one guy that was really bad and his situation was just horrible, he was very young too, younger than me for sure(I'm in my 30s). He was jumping up and down on his bed gasping for air and waving his hands frantically, fighting invisible enemies and asking for help. It looked really really horrible. I have no idea how these doctors and nurses stay sane and keep coming back to work. They couldn't do anything for him as he was able to still "breath" on his own, he wasn't hooked to a machine just oxygen.
I couldn't wait there for long and went outside to a special area they have designed with open-air that's for patients that are better, I would check back every ten minutes or so to see if the doctor had become available.
Anyway, the doctor finally came and took my bp and listened to my breathing and wrote another chest ct from my lungs and heart. The ct showed medium lung involvement but no heart enlargement. He asked whether I want to start treatment with chloroquine and be admitted or can I go home. I just wanted to gtho of there asap so I refused. He said I should immediately get back and start treatment if I get even slightly worse. He also reviewed the other doctor's recommendations and said I should stop taking vitamins c, d and e because they put a strain on my body. There was no time to ask him about other things I've started taking like reishi and b complex.
Yesterday I didn't take any vitamins but instead took around 10-15 grams of dried reishi mushroom about 5 hours before bed. Last night was the first night in two weeks that I didn't wake up gasping for air several times. Very glad about that. Also, my chest pain has become more centralized and is no longer located on the left side.
Today I had shortness of breath all day long but it wasn't as bad as say, five or six days ago. This is by far the longest I have been sick and it's definitely the strongest bug I have ever had. It is incredible that more than two weeks after the start of my symptoms I sometimes feel like the disease is making a comeback, like it's moving to another part of my body or reinfecting my vocal cords and so on..
I should also mention that I have several underlying conditions, I have psoriasis and I've struggled with fatigue, cold body and ADHD like symptoms all my life. I've been diagnosed with hypothyroidism one and was on t4 by a general practitioner for three months but then I went to a specialist who decided to discontinue, this was years ago btw. I don't get sick that often but when I do it is usually more severe than my GF or family members. For example last year I got the flu from my GF and had to go to the hospital and was off work for a whole week while she just took one day off work and was back on her feet after two days rest. My diet has been horrible these past few weeks because my GF usually does the cooking. I've been eating crappy microwave soup and pasta and fruits and chese puffs and chips!
Stay healthy folks.
Try your best to eat clean like meat and potatoes.
Vitamin C E and Bs are fine.
Bad Dieting is prolonging the process.
Take care.
I wonder about this though - despite negative sides of arginine, isn't it necessary for the immune system, especially in preventing pneumonia? There's a thread a while back from a well known poster, maybe was vinero, who was taking lysine and kept getting pneumonia and believed he induced an arginine deficiency. I don't know much about this personally, just remembered the thread....
I've also read a primary way cornoviruses are contained is via nitric oxide, which is boosted by l-arginine and many of the things that seem to "work" against these viruses.
Good question.
David PS
Member
I concur. It is all about the balance of lysine and arginine. As I said above, "I think that it may be best to make sure that you get more lysine than arginine in your diet. You may find that you do not need to supplement everyday. " There is no magic ratio but a ratio of 1.1 might be a good place to start. That can be achieved with diet.
As per Ray Peat, Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
Nitric Oxide has a "dark side". In a 2015 interview with Haidut entitled "Nitric Oxide and Methylene Blue [Generative Energy #11]" , Danny Roddy left the following time stamps:
05:00 - Ray Peat’s Nitric Oxide Interviews (link: http://bit.ly/rayinterviews)
05:45 - Mainstream views of nitric oxide
06:25 - Can be thought of as an emergency substitute for carbon dioxide to dilate blood vessels (CO2)
07:14 - Nitric oxide can influence intracellular calcium levels
07:51 - Local vs. systemic release of nitric oxide
08:50 - Nitric oxide and lactate stimulate angiogenesis
09:20 - Nitric oxide irreversibly binds cytochrome c oxidase
10:28 - Infections acutely increase nitric oxide
11:05 - Good thyroid function for low levels of nitric oxide
11:30 - Caffeine, niacinamide, zinc, and magnesium can help lower nitric oxide
12:00 - The amino acid lysine can lower nitric oxide
12:27 - Health problems associated with nitric oxide (and testing it)
13:23 - Nitric oxide theory of aging (link: http://bit.ly/1WrgZuS)
14:19 - Chronic disease is associated with elevated levels of nitric oxide and contributes to the problem
15:39 - Activating cytochrome c oxidase to lower nitric oxide
16:10 - Red light and methylene blue lower nitric oxide
16:55 - Nitric oxide can lower the core temperature
In summary:
I concur. It is all about the balance of lysine and arginine. As I said above, "I think that it may be best to make sure that you get more lysine than arginine in your diet. You may find that you do not need to supplement everyday. " There is no magic ratio but a ratio of 1.1 might be a good place to start. That can be achieved with diet.
As per Ray Peat, Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
Nitric Oxide has a "dark side". In a 2015 interview with Haidut entitled "Nitric Oxide and Methylene Blue [Generative Energy #11]" , Danny Roddy left the following time stamps:
05:00 - Ray Peat’s Nitric Oxide Interviews (link: http://bit.ly/rayinterviews)
05:45 - Mainstream views of nitric oxide
06:25 - Can be thought of as an emergency substitute for carbon dioxide to dilate blood vessels (CO2)
07:14 - Nitric oxide can influence intracellular calcium levels
07:51 - Local vs. systemic release of nitric oxide
08:50 - Nitric oxide and lactate stimulate angiogenesis
09:20 - Nitric oxide irreversibly binds cytochrome c oxidase
10:28 - Infections acutely increase nitric oxide
11:05 - Good thyroid function for low levels of nitric oxide
11:30 - Caffeine, niacinamide, zinc, and magnesium can help lower nitric oxide
12:00 - The amino acid lysine can lower nitric oxide
12:27 - Health problems associated with nitric oxide (and testing it)
13:23 - Nitric oxide theory of aging (link: http://bit.ly/1WrgZuS)
14:19 - Chronic disease is associated with elevated levels of nitric oxide and contributes to the problem
15:39 - Activating cytochrome c oxidase to lower nitric oxide
16:10 - Red light and methylene blue lower nitric oxide
16:55 - Nitric oxide can lower the core temperature
In summary:
Thanks! Im aware of the dark side of nitric oxide, and Ray's views on it, but hadn't seen it all laid out so well like that.
But this is just my opinion, but... it may be worth temporarily not worrying about the long terms effects of nitric oxide, if this covid virus is sweeping through your region and that's something that concerns you. A few weeks of not worrying about lowering nitric oxide won't do anything to your long term risk of disease IMO, but who knows, may help you survive the virus if you're old, susceptible to lung problems, overweight, etc.
But really the thing that concerned me more, was that thread about the guy who kept getting pneumonia with supplementing lysine, and believed it was a arginine deficiency. Not a good thing, if the virus is indeed causing pneumonia. Seems kind of unlikely to me, that lysine would do that though.
Still, maybe a good idea to supplement some gelatin along with lysine (pretty sure that has a fair bit of arginine in it).
Yeah, it has arginine in it, but what does it matter?
For example you can eat foods high in arginine and then take some MB to lower the nitric oxide.
I can see the anti-nitric oxide effects of Lysine and MB even with grams or arginine supplemented.
I am sure this will be different on everyone depending on so many other factors.
Tristan Loscha
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2018
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- 2,206
RealNeat said: ↑
Do you have a really good study or proof of vitamin D in supplement form actually benefitting this thing or any other pneumonia related condition?
Do you have a really good study or proof of vitamin D in supplement form actually benefitting this thing or any other pneumonia related condition?
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