Causes of Hypochlorhydria

[Korven]

I've revisited the testimonials of hormonesmatter group about metronidazole induced thiamine defficiency. Some of those people's thiamine status got severely messed up just from something like 10 tablets orally. I had it administered IV for a week along with omeprazole and then I took metronidazole for a month. Thiamine hcl must not be nearly enough fill what I presume is a deep deep defficiency. TTFD is not available to me so I'm starting up on benfothiamine. I'l have to buy other supplements too to prevent giving myself an imbalance. I hope this is the answer because the betaine hcl, histidine hcl, niacin, zinc and thiamine hcl regimen would cost me something like 200 bucks a month, I simply cannot afford spending this much to compensate for my broken stomach

Oh and I'm testing my serum gastrin next, when I can afford it.

Make sure to take a B-complex with both folate and B12 if you megadose thiamine. My blood folate levels were super low after months of 100-300 mg TTFD.

 

[Nomane Euger]

I've revisited the testimonials of hormonesmatter group about metronidazole induced thiamine defficiency. Some of those people's thiamine status got severely messed up just from something like 10 tablets orally. I had it administered IV for a week along with omeprazole and then I took metronidazole for a month. Thiamine hcl must not be nearly enough fill what I presume is a deep deep defficiency. TTFD is not available to me so I'm starting up on benfothiamine. I'l have to buy other supplements too to prevent giving myself an imbalance. I hope this is the answer because the betaine hcl, histidine hcl, niacin, zinc and thiamine hcl regimen would cost me something like 200 bucks a month, I simply cannot afford spending this much to compensate for my broken stomach

Oh and I'm testing my serum gastrin next, when I can afford it.

I can’t explain it as I need to repeat the experiment,but as someone that alternate between dreadful digestion and excellent digestion,the other day I got an tremendous digestion,i was a furnace,my body was warm as hell 5 minutes after I finished my 400 grammes smelly ground beef,50 grammes of lamb kidneys,like crazy,0 burp,0 gas,I could do muscles up 2 hours after it was already digested,I slept 10 hours,wonderful.this day at the morning I did drink a whole 250ml mapple syrup bottle and a bunch of honey like 500 grammes and only 2 or 3 oranges,and took energinin,and I had high histamines symptoms also.those days my digestion is not to good,i wonder if it was the b1 from energinin plus the manganese form the maple syrup as from what I have read these are co factors.last days I took energinin and did’t Drink maple syrup,and ate a bunch of oranges my digestion was very bad

 

[ursidae]

Make sure to take a B-complex with both folate and B12 if you megadose thiamine. My blood folate levels were super low after months of 100-300 mg TTFD.

As far as I've read there's a lot of things I'll have to emphasize- copper (due to the sulfur), manganese, molybdenum, magnesium, B2, selenium...

 

[ursidae]

Not using anything at the moment (besides NDT) but oregano oil worked well for me personally. Though I'm quite sure that just taking antimicrobials is not what fixed my skin issues. I have experimented with various antibiotics, RX and natural, in the past with no long-term gains. In fact they just made everything worse. When I finally nailed down my diet and had a few safe foods that didn't cause gut irritation/inflammation and allergies, and fed the bacterial overgrowth, I started noticing improvements pretty much immediately. Antimicrobials accelerated the progress. The decrease in gut irritation, and likely higher cholesterol, is what allowed me to add in NDT and see all the amazing benefits people here report from thyroid. I've doubted the Peat framework so many times but now I'm starting to think this old guy actually knows what he's talking about.

Just speculating here, but couldn't it be a situation of stress(ors) causing the hypochlorhydria = SIBO = hypothyroidism = more hypochlorhydria... and so on? I.e a vicious cycle that perpetuates low stomach acid. Do you have any symptoms of hypothyroidism? Ray has mentioned that this is what causes low stomach acid and SIBO. I think it might be worth pursuing if you temps are below 37-37.2 C and pulse below 85, cold hands and feet, etc. High metabolism produces more CO2 which is needed for parietal cells to secrete stomach acid.

Yeah, finding foods that you tolerate is a ******* pain in the **** and it's contextual/individual. Don't have any advice except for doing an elimination diet which is how I discovered the things that make me sick.

What are the safe foods for you? Beef and milk?

 

[Korven]

What are the safe foods for you? Beef and milk?

Mainly beef and milk. Honey seems to be fine as well. Couple of veggies such as mushrooms, onions, etc. Slowly, slowly reintroducing things for more variety.

 

[ursidae]

Mainly beef and milk. Honey seems to be fine as well. Couple of veggies such as mushrooms, onions, etc. Slowly, slowly reintroducing things for more variety.

beef and milk are some of the toughest foods to break down. I'm not sure you and I have the same problem. If you're able to digest something like milk then I'm certain your digestive strength is greater than the average healthy person

 

[ecstatichamster]

I would always suggest hydrogen water in this case.

 

[ursidae]

Update for the past three days. I had reduced my betaine hcl dosage to 5 capsules once a day for the purpose of being economical and because I suspect betaine itself gives me headaches and makes me feel bad. At no point did I feel burning during taking high or low doses of betaine. Then a couple days after the reduction of my dosage, after two days of moderate stress and cardio, I woke up with severe burning and pain in my stomach. Clearly I have damaged it with the hcl salts I take even though the amount should be significantly lower than what my stomach naturally produces. For the past three days I’ve just been living on slippery elm, hydrolysed collagen, chlorophyll, L.Reuteri and zinc carnosine, and Ayurvedic concoctions to soothe the damage, egg yolks, avocado, fish and fruit juices. Tried to eat some butter for the butyrate, gave me cystic acne pretty quickly. I don’t experience brain fog and the dementia like symptoms eating like this, but the fruit juice does break me out on my cheeks, gives me coated tongue. I’ve given a stool sample to test for H Pylori

I guess it’s high time to take the rifaximin. I hope it doesn’t screw up my colon because I think that’s the one area that’s performing decent at the moment

 

[ursidae]

Apparently even my daily nightmares might be due to starch. I still had dreams on no starch but dont recall having any nightmares. I broke my no starch regimen yesterday evening with a cup of hummus and had the most horrifying, detailed and believable nightmare about human trafficking. Huh. Too bad cause chickpeas are a great source of copper, molybdenum, manganese

 

[ursidae]

H pylori stool test came back negative. Go figure. I took some benfotiamine and it gave me a three day long headache. I took p5p, riboflavin-5-phosphate, quatrefolic acid, methyl cobalamin and it got better but right now it’s worse than before and I got heart palpitations all day long. I also got a headache from doses of thiamine hcl below 1 g. Not sure if I should persevere or stop taking it

 

[Lokzo]

I just did a video on this very topic, you guys might learn a thing or two!

 

[ursidae]

Thanks for the video!

I was looking at these stool analysis descriptions and that seems to be another means of diagnosing hypochlorhydria since it's used to assess protein digestion

http://nordic-labs.com/ProductPDF/sample%20report%20CDSA_2529.pdf

Levels of putrefactive short chain fatty acids

" Valerate, iso-valerate and iso-butyrate are "putrefactive" short chain fatty acids, produced when anaerobic bacteria ferment undigested protein. Levels within the reference range suggest adequate protein digestion."

Fecal pH

"Fecal pH is below the reference range. The pH of the stool is a reflection of several factors in the GI tract, such as gastric acid, pancreatic bicarbonate, short chain fatty acids, ammonia, bile, organic acids, and acids produced by beneficial flora. Proper levels enhance colonization by beneficial flora, deter possible pathogens, promote normal digestive processes, and promote SCFA production. Beside the possible influences listed here, an acidic pH may also result from malabsorption of sugars in the intestine."

 

[ursidae]

Still having hypochlorhydria... despite taking all the supplements, zinc histidine b3 b1, sea salt not giving results. Also betaine hcl now damages my stomach and small intestine at very small doses. I take one capsule because I’m afraid of perforation if I take more. I relapsed and ate some dairy and ever since I’ve been having gas and cramping, pain in the ileum. The other vegetarian option option egg whites doesn’t work either. Maybe I’m meant to be vegan. I can’t reconcile that with the fact that I have to supplement the vitamins minerals and amino acids found in animal products to function okay but clearly my stomach acid is not appropriate for meat eating and consuming it is only doing damage. I still wouldn’t attribute this to my blood type A since the Sami people are predominantly A and all they eat is ruminant meat (reindeer). So yeah it’s probably for the best to go vegan with some protein powder and supplements

 

[ursidae]

I always feel weak if I skip meat even for a day, it doesn’t feel right, so

1) I’m examining the possibility that the histidine is not being converted to histamine

histidine carboxylase is dependent on pyridoxal-5-phosphate ( I’m supplementing it already)
I'm reading claims that b2, magnesium and iron are also needed but cannot find information to confirm


2) since stomach acid is so so crucial and you are dead without the ability to break down amino acids and minerals, there is no way the organism would sabotage itself by shutting down something so vital- it should be a high priority. Bile is alkaline (pH 8) and one of its functions is to neutralize stomach acid upon entering the duodenum. If my bile flow is impaired, my body is saving my life by downregulating stomach acid secretion.


"Bile salts and acids are transported in a fluid that contains water, sodium, chloride, and bicarbonates. This fluid is produced in the liver, and it serves to neutralize hydrochloric acid passed from the stomach into the small intestine."

Bile | biochemistry

Bile, greenish yellow secretion that is produced in the liver and passed to the gallbladder for concentration, storage, or transport into the first region of the small intestine, the duodenum. Its function is to aid in the digestion of fats in the duodenum. Bile is composed of bile acids and salts,

www.britannica.com

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

If my bile flow is impaired, my body is saving my life by downregulating stomach acid secretion.

This is an interesting perspective. You said in the previous post that betaine hcl was damaging you gut, right? Would make sense that your bile production isn't good, or else it would have neutralized the acid before it did any damage.

 

[ursidae]

This is an interesting perspective. You said in the previous post that betaine hcl was damaging you gut, right? Would make sense that your bile production isn't good, or else it would have neutralized the acid before it did any damage.

Generally it damages my epigastrium but there are episodes when it damages my small intestine too. I have tudca on hand to test this
The problem is I’ve never seen even the most severe cases who take 20 pills report getting pain in the small intestine, most of them get no pain at all which is ridiculous. Sometimes they have gastritis and it hurts their stomach. But my body refuses so stubbornly to produce acid that it must be for a good reason like this

 

[Motif]

If stomach acid production is insufficient, most efforts at getting better are in vain. I’d like to a list of all the possible causes of this. I don’t have sources listed, this is me making assumptions and going off by memory. I have not yet fixed my problem.

Nutrient Deficiency:
iodine
Chloride
Zinc
B3
B1
• exocrine pancreatic insufficiency/enteritis causing limited breakdown/absorption of food, causing deficiencies despite adequate dietary intake


infection
•H. Pylori
Gastritis

Hypothyroidism

medication:
proton pump inhibitors
H2 blockers
Antacids
Antibiotic use

habits:
Chronic stress and poor posture causing sympathetic dominance
Brain inflammation causing poor vagal tone/reduced vagal activation-the vagal nerve which mediates the parasympathetic nervous system is also involved in enzyme and bile production
Lack of chewing, mastication stimulates gastric acid production
Listening to music/multitasking/staring at screens while eating
Too much water before meals
Dehydration

tests
Heidelberg pH test- most reliable
Baking soda test
Betaine HCL test- in my opinion, the flaw is that the sensation of burning is likely due to damaged gastric mucosa

Remedies:
ACV
Betaine HCL
The above will make things worse if you have gastritis

thyroid supplementation
salt

Lemon water, celery juice
ginger, dandelion, peppermint
Salted, bitter leafy green salads

for vagal tone: singing, humming, chanting; deep diaphragm breathing; sarvangasana, provoking yourself to slightly choke, gargling; L.rhamnosus

Glutathione supplementation after proton pump inhibitor use

i Heard conflicting stuff about lemon water.

How does posture affect this?

 

[ursidae]

i Heard conflicting stuff about lemon water.

How does posture affect this?

Drinking apple cider vinegar or lemon water will not substitute for stomach acid and can damage the esophagus.

My understanding is very basic I can’t guarantee it’s correct. Slouching compresses your internal organs, restricts the diaphragm. The vagus nerve runs through an opening in the diaphragm so being hunched forward can affect nerve signalling

 

[Motif]

Drinking apple cider vinegar or lemon water will not substitute for stomach acid and can damage the esophagus.

My understanding is very basic I can’t guarantee it’s correct. Slouching compresses your internal organs, restricts the diaphragm. The vagus nerve runs through an opening in the diaphragm so being hunched forward can affect nerve signalling

my whole back is chronically tight. Could really have influence on it.

what’s your opinion on chewing ginger for digestion?

 

[ursidae]

Chewing anything is stimulating and good for digestion. Ginger is antibacterial/good to clean the mouth and contains proteolytic enzymes. Maybe it’s best to chew and focus on the food you’re about to eat so the appropriate enzymes are released

my whole back is chronically tight. Could really have influence on it.

what’s your opinion on chewing ginger for digestion?