Causes of Hypochlorhydria

redsun

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So how long did you take histidine for? I’ve been taking 2 grams per day for about a week and liking the results (much deeper sleep, digestion), but I’m not sure how much longer it might be a good idea to keep taking it.
Try taking it for up to a month with zinc. The idea being you should have enough histidine and zinc for the carbonic anhydrase enzyme in the stomach (which makes H+ ions for HCL) and more histamine to activate H2 receptors in the stomach properly.

If you start getting problems before then... immediately stop and take zinc (15-20mg) at night for awhile while also eating copper foods and red meat/dairy (for zinc and iron) during the day. Zinc in food will not antagonize copper absorption. As long as zinc is not too high and you have the supplement at night away from copper foods you will get the copper and the zinc, both of which you need.
 

Nebula

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Try taking it for up to a month with zinc. The idea being you should have enough histidine and zinc for the carbonic anhydrase enzyme in the stomach (which makes H+ ions for HCL) and more histamine to activate H2 receptors in the stomach properly.

If you start getting problems before then... immediately stop and take zinc (15-20mg) at night for awhile while also eating copper foods and red meat/dairy (for zinc and iron) during the day. Zinc in food will not antagonize copper absorption. As long as zinc is not too high and you have the supplement at night away from copper foods you will get the copper and the zinc, both of which you need.
Alright, that’s what I was thinking I would try. I must have really needed the histidine and zinc. It’s been a dramatic improvement. I wonder how I became deficient. Can anti histamines like cypro deplete histidine or interfere with it in some way? I took quite a bit a few years ago, maybe 4 mg per day for a few months.
 

redsun

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Alright, that’s what I was thinking I would try. I must have really needed the histidine and zinc. It’s been a dramatic improvement. I wonder how I became deficient. Can anti histamines like cypro deplete histidine or interfere with it in some way? I took quite a bit a few years ago, maybe 4 mg per day for a few months.

Any inflammatory processes (stress, illness, inflammatory diseases, injury, gut problems, muscle growth, overtraining, etc) will deplete histidine since histamine is heavily involved in these as well as tissue repair. Most people don't get much of it as is. Also zinc can be depleted due to similar reasons but most often is due to barely adequate intake in combination with other factors increasing zinc requirement.
 
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I may try this histidine supplementation strategy. The improvement I had in digestion from niacin( nicotinic acid) was great, especially combined with t3. Very clear increase in stomach acid. I get that hollow stomach feeling after taking a 250 mg capusle of niacin( even though I'm still bloated). Would be really cool if histidine increased my stomach acid even more.
 

redsun

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I may try this histidine supplementation strategy. The improvement I had in digestion from niacin( nicotinic acid) was great, especially combined with t3. Very clear increase in stomach acid. I get that hollow stomach feeling after taking a 250 mg capusle of niacin( even though I'm still bloated). Would be really cool if histidine increased my stomach acid even more.
Just be aware of the same instructions I gave to nebula about zinc and copper and it will increase stomach acid substantially. This helps you tolerate all foods better but especially helps you digest proteins better.
 
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Just be aware of the same instructions I gave to nebula about zinc and copper and it will increase stomach acid substantially. This helps you tolerate all foods better but especially helps you digest proteins better.
Will do. Thanks!
 
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ursidae

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Any inflammatory processes (stress, illness, inflammatory diseases, injury, gut problems, muscle growth, overtraining, etc) will deplete histidine since histamine is heavily involved in these as well as tissue repair. Most people don't get much of it as is. Also zinc can be depleted due to similar reasons but most often is due to barely adequate intake in combination with other factors increasing zinc requirement.

have you ever gotten excess emotionality/tearfullness form histidine
 

redsun

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have you ever gotten excess emotionality/tearfullness form histidine

Yes it will do that and women will be more easily affected by it because of estrogen increasing signalling of NTs involved in emotion which histidine seems to amplify (probably via histamine, as there is also a connection between histamine and estrogen). Also by chelating zinc (taking zinc is effective for those with excess emotionality, so chelating it will have the opposite effect).

Histidine needs to be taken with zinc to be effective for digestion as histidine will chelate it. You may need to take more zinc with it. If you arent taking zinc with it you need to.
 

Nehring

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I've been experiencing drastic improvements in digestion through zinc and histidine supplementation as well and I want to thank you @redsun for your insight into this topic. I became curious when you mentioned the connection of dry mouth with low histamine in another post which I am suffering from.

I ordered some blood values to clarify copper status though I suspect that this imbalance is probably hard to be picked up in serum. In order to get a better picture I will also assess ceruloplasmin status.

What in your point of view initiates this pattern of low histamine / low zinc / high copper? Stress induced inhibition of digestive enzyme production via suppressed thyroid function leading the organism into a downward spiral of poor digestion --> low nutrient assimilation --> poorer digestion....?

Also, in terms of preventing a copper deficiency by tipping the scale too much in the other direction, should I predominantly watch out for fatigue, grey hair, or other symptoms?

Again, really appreciate your insight into this topic and the nuanced information on histamine!
 

Nebula

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Histidine needs to be taken with zinc to be effective for digestion as histidine will chelate it. You may need to take more zinc with it. If you arent taking zinc with it you need to.
Is there a form of zinc that you think works best with histidine? I’m currently using zinc gluconate and it seems to be working decently well.
 
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ursidae

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Yes it will do that and women will be more easily affected by it because of estrogen increasing signalling of NTs involved in emotion which histidine seems to amplify (probably via histamine, as there is also a connection between histamine and estrogen). Also by chelating zinc (taking zinc is effective for those with excess emotionality, so chelating it will have the opposite effect).

Histidine needs to be taken with zinc to be effective for digestion as histidine will chelate it. You may need to take more zinc with it. If you arent taking zinc with it you need to.
yeah i take zinc
 

redsun

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Is there a form of zinc that you think works best with histidine? I’m currently using zinc gluconate and it seems to be working decently well.

Gluconate is fine. Whats important is absorption rate of the compound which you can find online.

I've been experiencing drastic improvements in digestion through zinc and histidine supplementation as well and I want to thank you @redsun for your insight into this topic. I became curious when you mentioned the connection of dry mouth with low histamine in another post which I am suffering from.

I ordered some blood values to clarify copper status though I suspect that this imbalance is probably hard to be picked up in serum. In order to get a better picture I will also assess ceruloplasmin status.

What in your point of view initiates this pattern of low histamine / low zinc / high copper? Stress induced inhibition of digestive enzyme production via suppressed thyroid function leading the organism into a downward spiral of poor digestion --> low nutrient assimilation --> poorer digestion....?

Also, in terms of preventing a copper deficiency by tipping the scale too much in the other direction, should I predominantly watch out for fatigue, grey hair, or other symptoms?

Again, really appreciate your insight into this topic and the nuanced information on histamine!
As I posted to nebula:

Any inflammatory processes (stress, illness, inflammatory diseases, injury, gut problems, muscle growth, overtraining, etc) will deplete histidine since histamine as well as histidine itself is heavily involved in these as well as tissue repair. Most people don't get much of it as is due to low protein intake. Also zinc can be depleted due to similar reasons but most often is due to barely adequate intake in combination with other factors increasing zinc requirement.

Also folate deficiency seems to increase histidine loss in urine. It would take a very long while to get copper deficient but mainly you will get insane fatigue from low catecholamines, low energy production. You should consume copper in foods anyways. What is really the main issue is lack of histidine and zinc, not that there is too much copper. But because this combo does chelate copper you need to be wary to still consume it.
 
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ursidae

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I’ve been experimenting with niacin. It’s not making a difference for this problem. But I’m wondering about something else. For some reason I used to get a very strong flush with warmth, tingling, uplifted mood that lasted almost an hour in February last year. right now I’m not feeling anything. What could this indicate?
 
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ursidae

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Okay so the combination of betaine hcl, niacin, zinc gluconate, histidine hcl, thiamine hcl, T3 doesn't work for me. It appears to be somewhat of a hopeless case and it makes me consider the possibility that my stomach is physically damaged.

I've been experiencing very poor short and long term memory, recall, and diminished ability to concentrate over the past weeks and it's been getting worse. I can't remember what I heard or said five seconds ago. Taking thiamine did not help and I feel like it made it worse. It could be the starch, the pufa in the fish and the avocado, the excess of carbohydrates, contamination in all the supplements so I am contemplating a drastic diet switch. I'm gonna quit most of what I'm eating/taking and keep things very very minimalistic. Hopefully this will resolve the gastritis that I suspect I have and the hypochlorhydria will improve
 
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Korven

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Okay so the combination of betaine hcl, niacin, zinc gluconate, histidine hcl, thiamine hcl, T3 doesn't work for me. It appears to be somewhat of a hopeless case and it makes me consider the possibility that my stomach is physically damaged.

I've been experiencing very poor short and long term memory, recall, and diminished ability to concentrate over the past weeks and it's been getting worse. I can't remember what I heard or said five seconds ago. Taking thiamine did not help and I feel like it made it worse. It could be the starch, the pufa in the fish and the avocado, the excess of carbohydrates, contamination in all the supplements so I am contemplating a drastic diet switch. I'm gonna quit most of what I'm eating/taking and keep things very very minimalistic. Hopefully this will resolve the gastritis that I suspect I have and the hypochlorhydria will improve

I've also realized that pretty much all oral supplements mess me up, get allergic reactions and weird symptoms. Even from "clean" and beneficial stuff like D, K2, E etc. Doing much better since stopping everything, now I only take NDT orally.

Maybe you could try user Jennifer's SIBO "protocol" and see if that helps with the low stomach acid (as well as the other "brain fog" type symptoms)?

A diet consisting of low to no fiber/starches to cut off the bacterias food supply, and instead eating whatever proteins, carbs and fats are well-tolerated (seafood seems to be pretty good for people with weak digestion). Then start NDT or other thyroid medication to improve digestion/peristalsis to prevent SIBO from showing up again. And then some sort of antibiotic/antimicrobial to take care of the existing bacterial overgrowth, for example oregano oil or Rifaximin.

This kind of approach has helped me a lot with symptoms I attribute to SIBO and leaky gut. Mystery rash/pustules on my face completely gone :) But still have to be careful with what I eat to not trigger things, still don't seem to tolerate loads of starches and not sure if I ever will.

Hope you find something that works!
 
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I’ve been experimenting with niacin. It’s not making a difference for this problem. But I’m wondering about something else. For some reason I used to get a very strong flush with warmth, tingling, uplifted mood that lasted almost an hour in February last year. right now I’m not feeling anything. What could this indicate?
Are you taking the niacin in powder form, or are you swallowing a capsule with it inside? I notice that, if open up the capsule and pour the niacin on my mouth, I seem to always get the flush. Doesn't always happen when I just swallow the capsule.
 
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ursidae

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I've also realized that pretty much all oral supplements mess me up, get allergic reactions and weird symptoms. Even from "clean" and beneficial stuff like D, K2, E etc. Doing much better since stopping everything, now I only take NDT orally.

Maybe you could try user Jennifer's SIBO "protocol" and see if that helps with the low stomach acid (as well as the other "brain fog" type symptoms)?

A diet consisting of low to no fiber/starches to cut off the bacterias food supply, and instead eating whatever proteins, carbs and fats are well-tolerated (seafood seems to be pretty good for people with weak digestion). Then start NDT or other thyroid medication to improve digestion/peristalsis to prevent SIBO from showing up again. And then some sort of antibiotic/antimicrobial to take care of the existing bacterial overgrowth, for example oregano oil or Rifaximin.

This kind of approach has helped me a lot with symptoms I attribute to SIBO and leaky gut. Mystery rash/pustules on my face completely gone :) But still have to be careful with what I eat to not trigger things, still don't seem to tolerate loads of starches and not sure if I ever will.

Hope you find something that works!


Are you using an antimicrobial and which one? It's gonna be rifaximin for me as oregano oil damaged my gut lining. However I think hypochlorhydria causes SIBO, stomach acid looks like the root cause of most problems. My peristalsis is normal even though I do eat fiber. T3 doesn't seem to be affecting my digestion. I want to try no fibre and starch but I don't know if I have options. I absolutely cannot do milk, fruit juices mess me up (I'm still insulin resistant), I could dissolve glucose in vegetable juices but to be fair too many of those juices make me feel bad too.
 
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ursidae

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Are you taking the niacin in powder form, or are you swallowing a capsule with it inside? I notice that, if open up the capsule and pour the niacin on my mouth, I seem to always get the flush. Doesn't always happen when I just swallow the capsule.
it's a tablet. It's worked once so far when my meal was smaller
 
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ursidae

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I've revisited the testimonials of hormonesmatter group about metronidazole induced thiamine defficiency. Some of those people's thiamine status got severely messed up just from something like 10 tablets orally. I had it administered IV for a week along with omeprazole and then I took metronidazole for a month. Thiamine hcl must not be nearly enough fill what I presume is a deep deep defficiency. TTFD is not available to me so I'm starting up on benfothiamine. I'l have to buy other supplements too to prevent giving myself an imbalance. I hope this is the answer because the betaine hcl, histidine hcl, niacin, zinc and thiamine hcl regimen would cost me something like 200 bucks a month, I simply cannot afford spending this much to compensate for my broken stomach

Oh and I'm testing my serum gastrin next, when I can afford it.
 
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Korven

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Are you using an antimicrobial and which one? It's gonna be rifaximin for me as oregano oil damaged my gut lining. However I think hypochlorhydria causes SIBO, stomach acid looks like the root cause of most problems. My peristalsis is normal even though I do eat fiber. T3 doesn't seem to be affecting my digestion. I want to try no fibre and starch but I don't know if I have options. I absolutely cannot do milk, fruit juices mess me up (I'm still insulin resistant), I could dissolve glucose in vegetable juices but to be fair too many of those juices make me feel bad too.

Not using anything at the moment (besides NDT) but oregano oil worked well for me personally. Though I'm quite sure that just taking antimicrobials is not what fixed my skin issues. I have experimented with various antibiotics, RX and natural, in the past with no long-term gains. In fact they just made everything worse. When I finally nailed down my diet and had a few safe foods that didn't cause gut irritation/inflammation and allergies, and fed the bacterial overgrowth, I started noticing improvements pretty much immediately. Antimicrobials accelerated the progress. The decrease in gut irritation, and likely higher cholesterol, is what allowed me to add in NDT and see all the amazing benefits people here report from thyroid. I've doubted the Peat framework so many times but now I'm starting to think this old guy actually knows what he's talking about.

Just speculating here, but couldn't it be a situation of stress(ors) causing the hypochlorhydria = SIBO = hypothyroidism = more hypochlorhydria... and so on? I.e a vicious cycle that perpetuates low stomach acid. Do you have any symptoms of hypothyroidism? Ray has mentioned that this is what causes low stomach acid and SIBO. I think it might be worth pursuing if you temps are below 37-37.2 C and pulse below 85, cold hands and feet, etc. High metabolism produces more CO2 which is needed for parietal cells to secrete stomach acid.

Yeah, finding foods that you tolerate is a ******* pain in the **** and it's contextual/individual. Don't have any advice except for doing an elimination diet which is how I discovered the things that make me sick.
 
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