Causes of Hypochlorhydria

[redsun]

So I’ve been taking 2 grams of histidine per day along with zinc and its inducing sleep after a decent sized meal. Did you experience this? Could the gastric acid release be improving absorption of protein much more than I am used to and causing hypoglycemia? Or maybe just a cortisol drop from better digestion. Overall this seems like a positive development. Stomach acid does seem it has increased.

Stress response is going to be reduced and healing and repair will be improved when you can digest and utilize more of your food (especially proteins, since protein digestion is heavily dependent on strong acid secretion). Maybe this is why you are more tired. Or you may need more carbs in meals as the speed at which you burn carbs will be faster due to the histidine and zinc.

Histidine (when converted to histamine) excites the nervous system usually but not in the same way as stimulants like caffeine which work through catecholamines. Zinc can as well but it does raise GABA and in general zinc is recommended for those who have trouble sleeping.

Eventually you will need to consume copper foods as copper can drop too much and this can cause fatigue. If you can digest fruits and potatoes, dark chocolate and other copper foods then those are good to eat. Liver occasionally may be good too depending. It may be too much copper at the moment and reduce acid secretion again. Depends on the individual.

 

[Nomane Euger]

Stress response is going to be reduced and healing and repair will be improved when you can digest and utilize more of your food (especially proteins, since protein digestion is heavily dependent on strong acid secretion). Maybe this is why you are more tired. Or you may need more carbs in meals as the speed at which you burn carbs will be faster due to the histidine and zinc.

Histidine (when converted to histamine) excites the nervous system usually but not in the same way as stimulants like caffeine which work through catecholamines. Zinc can as well but it does raise GABA and in general zinc is recommended for those who have trouble sleeping.

Eventually you will need to consume copper foods as copper can drop too much and this can cause fatigue. If you can digest fruits and potatoes, dark chocolate and other copper foods then those are good to eat. Liver occasionally may be good too depending. It may be too much copper at the moment and reduce acid secretion again. Depends on the individual.

hi Redsun as many things can lower histamines such as vitamine C,copper,sugar,selenium,vitamine A...etc,do you try to not consume certains foods together like let’s say 3 yellow kiwis rich in vitamine c with meat as it could lower your histamine and impact your meat digestion?or insignificant?is histamine essential for meat digestion or is there others things that can mediate efficiently stomach acid with out histamine?i feel like when i eat honey my meat digestion get worsen.is there hours of the day where our meat digestion is at his best?

 

[member11823]

too much stress (psy or phsy doesn't matter)

 

[ursidae]

too much stress (psy or phsy doesn't matter)

I guess that can also be framed as low resistance to stress

 

[member11823]

If you're able to handle 10 points of stress with all the supplements/sleep and foods, you can't handle 11 points

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Stress response is going to be reduced and healing and repair will be improved when you can digest and utilize more of your food (especially proteins, since protein digestion is heavily dependent on strong acid secretion). Maybe this is why you are more tired

Interesting. I often myself fatigued after high-protein meals.

 

[redsun]

hi Redsun as many things can lower histamines such as vitamine C,copper,sugar,selenium,vitamine A...etc,do you try to not consume certains foods together like let’s say 3 yellow kiwis rich in vitamine c with meat as it could lower your histamine and impact your meat digestion?or insignificant?is histamine essential for meat digestion or is there others things that can mediate efficiently stomach acid with out histamine?i feel like when i eat honey my meat digestion get worsen.is there hours of the day where our meat digestion is at his best?

Mostly nothing you eat is going to reduce histamine enough to reduce acid secretion unless you already have it low. Vitamin C doesnt worsen it really, especially not from food. The main issue is very high copper or taking SAM-e/methionine. Those will lower histamine excessively if taken long enough or your levels are already lowish.

 

[Nomane Euger]

Mostly nothing you eat is going to reduce histamine enough to reduce acid secretion unless you already have it low. Vitamin C doesnt worsen it really, especially not from food. The main issue is very high copper or taking SAM-e/methionine. Those will lower histamine excessively if taken long enough or your levels are already lowish.

okay thanks redsun,from my experience young lamb/liver give me low histamins symptoms and cold feets.can eating to much of B vitamins and involve in methylation and not having enough glycine can cause exess methylation of histamines and cause low histamines symptoms?

 

[ursidae]

I’m a bit baffled by my situation, by making lots of changes I went from pregnant looking/bowel movements every other day to almost never being bloated despite eating kilograms of high volume food and passing 4 or more no wipe odourless bowel movements a day. I can tolerate potatoes now and eat 1kg of them a day (always organic), and am no longer losing weight on close to 3000 cal a day. But I’m also unable to gain weight at high calories despite my mediocre temperature levels (36.4 morning, 36.5 average, 36.7 highest). I did accidentally take too much cabergoline a while ago so maybe the temperature is influenced by that. I’ve since quit that drug due to other side effects

I don’t want to jinx it but for the past one month none of my acne lesions have turned into cysts. The ones on my jawline are remaining small bumps. Some of the lesions are even healing scarlessly like they used to. Again, I hope things remain that way


Yet it seems like I barely have stomach acid going on based on that test, almost every day I’ll have a pain in a random area of my torso, my tongue is coated but breath isn’t bad. I don’t know if I still have that pesky malabsorption problem but I do suffer from tingling feet and neuralgia and supplementing b12 sometimes helps.

 

[EIRE24]

I’m a bit baffled by my situation, by making lots of changes I went from pregnant looking/bowel movements every other day to almost never being bloated despite eating kilograms of high volume food and passing 4 or more no wipe odourless bowel movements a day. I can tolerate potatoes now and eat 1kg of them a day (always organic), and am no longer losing weight on close to 3000 cal a day. But I’m also unable to gain weight at high calories despite my mediocre temperature levels (36.4 morning, 36.5 average, 36.7 highest). I did accidentally take too much cabergoline a while ago so maybe the temperature is influenced by that. I’ve since quit that drug due to other side effects

I don’t want to jinx it but for the past one month none of my acne lesions have turned into cysts. The ones on my jawline are remaining small bumps. Some of the lesions are even healing scarlessly like they used to. Again, I hope things remain that way


Yet it seems like I barely have stomach acid going on based on that test, almost every day I’ll have a pain in a random area of my torso, my tongue is coated but breath isn’t bad. I don’t know if I still have that pesky malabsorption problem but I do suffer from tingling feet and neuralgia and supplementing b12 sometimes helps.

What has helped the most in improving your digestion, do you think?

 

[ursidae]

I have no idea which one of this did it for me, some of them might even be detrimental. And I still get pains

-TUDCA
-Stopped eating starch and meat together. I eat meat in my last meal with a leafy salad and an avocado, coconut oil, cocoa butter, olives
- I eat a chunk of raw ginger with all my carby fermentable meals, along with other spices
-taking low dose of lugol's iodine makes me feel more solid
-stopped eating red meat for 2 months, replaced with white fish. Reintroduced it once again when I was not ready and the pain was bad. I think the iron was giving me skin inflammation and encouraging my dysbiosis. Right now I can eat it, but I don't risk with more than 3 times a week
-completely quit gluten and dairy
-started eating mostly organic
-thiamine hcl has been huge help, keeps me regular, B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, biotin have all helped
-For gut lining I take sodium butyrate, wheatgrass juice powder, slippery elm and chlorophyll (recently), zinc carnosine, hydrolyzed beef collagen, made my own bone broth every week at one point
- in september I took metronidazole for several weeks, completely wrecked my digestion once I stopped but it did make me tolerate potatoes much better and no longer get gas from them. Potatoes are essential for me but I can tell they're making my face a bit red and inflaming the acne a bit. I don't think they're giving me comedones though
- When my tongue gets too white I take several drops of camphosal or a drop of high grade tea tree and frankincense oil and 2 drops of a mix of several oils (Wild Orange Peel, Clove Bud, Cinnamon Leaf, Cinnamon Bark, Eucalyptus Leaf, and Rosemary Leaf/Flower essential oils)
-stopped eating lentils and grains, they don't inflame my face but give me blackheads. The gas is also not a good sign. I was eating them for the folate and thiamine but both those vitamins are very heat sensitive
-made coconut milk yoghurt about 5 times using a bifido starter
-drank more water
-celery and beet juice helped me flush out the backed up waste and get things moving, improved fat digestion but I don't recommend them long term
- physical activity

 

[EIRE24]

I have no idea which one of this did it for me, some of them might even be detrimental. And I still get pains

-TUDCA
-Stopped eating starch and meat together. I eat meat in my last meal with a leafy salad and an avocado, coconut oil, cocoa butter, olives
- I eat a chunk of raw ginger with all my carby fermentable meals, along with other spices
-taking low dose of lugol's iodine makes me feel more solid
-stopped eating red meat for 2 months, replaced with white fish. Reintroduced it once again when I was not ready and the pain was bad. I think the iron was giving me skin inflammation and encouraging my dysbiosis. Right now I can eat it, but I don't risk with more than 3 times a week
-completely quit gluten and dairy
-started eating mostly organic
-thiamine hcl has been huge help, keeps me regular, B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, biotin have all helped
-For gut lining I take sodium butyrate, wheatgrass juice powder, slippery elm and chlorophyll (recently), zinc carnosine, hydrolyzed beef collagen, made my own bone broth every week at one point
- in september I took metronidazole for several weeks, completely wrecked my digestion once I stopped but it did make me tolerate potatoes much better and no longer get gas from them. Potatoes are essential for me but I can tell they're making my face a bit red and inflaming the acne a bit. I don't think they're giving me comedones though
- When my tongue gets too white I take several drops of camphosal or a drop of high grade tea tree and frankincense oil and 2 drops of a mix of several oils (Wild Orange Peel, Clove Bud, Cinnamon Leaf, Cinnamon Bark, Eucalyptus Leaf, and Rosemary Leaf/Flower essential oils)
-stopped eating lentils and grains, they don't inflame my face but give me blackheads. The gas is also not a good sign. I was eating them for the folate and thiamine but both those vitamins are very heat sensitive
-made coconut milk yoghurt about 5 times using a bifido starter
-drank more water
-celery and beet juice helped me flush out the backed up waste and get things moving, improved fat digestion but I don't recommend them long term
- physical activity

Thanks very much for the detailed and lengthy reply. This will be a fantastic help.

 

[ursidae]

Thanks very much for the detailed and lengthy reply. This will be a fantastic help.

You’re welcome hope it’s useful. I forgot to mention before tudca I took taurine too for a long time and it was also helpful

 

[Nomane Euger]

You’re welcome hope it’s useful. I forgot to mention before tudca I took taurine too for a long time and it was also helpful

Ursidae is there a clear and unifying perspective on what cause white tongue,that is common among ray peat on felloW forums members?

 

[ursidae]

Ursidae is there a clear and unifying perspective on what cause white tongue,that is common among ray peat on felloW forums members?

I’m not an expert on anything I can only give you my anecdotal experience. I’m not sure it’s candida, I worked in a microbiology lab briefly and the doctor told me it’s a benign fungal overgrowth of some kind and indicates that digestion is off and possibly that there is dehydration. I get a coated tongue when I eat a lot of simple sugars like honey and fruit. When my tongue is consistently white I’m normally not doing well at all and simple carbs leave an acidic and sometimes bitter aftertaste in my mouth. The people I know who produce adequate amounts of stomach acid never seem to have a coated tongue and I assumed that this might indicate SIBO. If I eat a meal of just meat and fat like an avocado my tongue will be clean and pink afterwards. Rice coats my tongue, potatoes and pulses for the most part do not. When I undereat I’m more prone to this. Ive read that in Ayurveda a coated tongue indicates toxic residue from improperly digested food (ama) indicating weak or imbalanced digestive fire (agni). I’ve been to an Ayurvedic doctor and he instructed me to scrape the coating off my tongue every morning

I found this

 

[Nomane Euger]

Excellent,thanks you,did you notify a difference in coated tongue with only honey vs only fruits?

 

[ursidae]

Looking at these I’ve got
Stomach pancreas small intestine problems, Pitta imbalance and malabsorption. Looks about right

 

[ursidae]

I can't edit the OP so I'll be writing new information in the following posts:

Another test, a saliva test, that can be done: Vascular endothelial growth factor

The normal acidity of blood is about pH7, but the acidity of stomach acid can be as low as pH 2 or below. That means that hydrogen ions (which create acidity) are a 100,000 times more concentrated in the stomach than in the bloodstream. So the stomach wall has a very difficult job to do. The gastric parietal cells need quite a bit of energy from ATP to pump hydrogen ions from the inside of the parietal cell into the lumen of the stomach. The difficult bit is stopping these hydrogen ions leaking back again. This is achieved because the gastric parietal cells forming a protective barrier between each other at the cell membrane tight junction to stop hydrogen ions leaking back. Because this is extremely hard work and the body does not want to waste energy, the main regulator for the cell membrane tight junction is vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF). This is produced by the salivary glands.

What this means is that the more stomach acid is produced, the more VEGF is necessary to keep the glue going between gastric parietal cells. Therefore, one would expect salivary VEGF levels to be proportionate to the amount of stomach acid. And indeed this is the case. There is a huge amount of research that has been done with respect to VEGF, most of which is to do with high levels. However, the reverse is also true and low levels of VEGF would be a pointer towards hypochlorhydria.

Vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF)- salivary test for hypochlorhydria - DoctorMyhill

drmyhill.co.uk

 

[ursidae]

Excellent,thanks you,did you notify a difference in coated tongue with only honey vs only fruits?

honey is much worse

 

[Nebula]

Stress response is going to be reduced and healing and repair will be improved when you can digest and utilize more of your food (especially proteins, since protein digestion is heavily dependent on strong acid secretion). Maybe this is why you are more tired. Or you may need more carbs in meals as the speed at which you burn carbs will be faster due to the histidine and zinc.

Histidine (when converted to histamine) excites the nervous system usually but not in the same way as stimulants like caffeine which work through catecholamines. Zinc can as well but it does raise GABA and in general zinc is recommended for those who have trouble sleeping.

Eventually you will need to consume copper foods as copper can drop too much and this can cause fatigue. If you can digest fruits and potatoes, dark chocolate and other copper foods then those are good to eat. Liver occasionally may be good too depending. It may be too much copper at the moment and reduce acid secretion again. Depends on the individual.

So how long did you take histidine for? I’ve been taking 2 grams per day for about a week and liking the results (much deeper sleep, digestion), but I’m not sure how much longer it might be a good idea to keep taking it.