cant fall asleep

Steveig84

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Oct 10, 2012
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46
Any ideas? Been happening on and off the past few weeks that im awake nearly the whole night and no amount of sugar,salt, fat seems to make any differnece!

Feels like my pulse is so strong i can feel my body vibrating and i can hear each beat on my pillow!

Strange thing is feel great throught the day and pulse and temp readings are greeting better and better havent had sleep problem for aleast 2-3 years!
 

Ray-Z

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Oct 16, 2012
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Some more information would be helpful. Do you feel anxious or stressed? Do you get upset or frustrated when you experience difficulty falling asleep? Is the room in which you sleep dark and quiet? Is the room at a suitable temperature for sleeping? Are you consuming caffeinated beverages or supplements in the evening that may be keeping you awake? What caused your sleep problems in the past?
 

Steveig84

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Oct 10, 2012
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Hi ray-z, thanks for your response :):

Do not feel anxious or stressed im signed off work injured so am relaxing it up.... ;-) I try my best to stay calm but i get pretty stressed when i cant sleep! Try breathing exercises and so on...but after 3 plus hours i get angry lol!

I would stay temperature in the room is fine but light and noise could be and issue even tho i normaly have no problem and until the autum started i had no problems falling asleep as soon as my head hit the pillow and it was not unusual for me to sleep 8-11hours straight through!

In the past it was diffinatly stress (physical) related as i was doing far to much physical activity...but that felt different and was andrenaline related and sugar,salt,fat, would help me go to sleep which is now not the case.

Im thinking its high blood pressure for salt and bicarb drinks...seems to be when ive consumed plenty of salt and some extra bicarb through out the day and last night got my thinking what i could do if food, treid ice cream and 2 hours later bone broth and oj where not helping....i treid drinking a load of water and going for a pee and bingo i slept after that and but pulse was no longer so strong!
Will keep an eye on salt intake and cut out bicarb for a few days and see if that helps :):

any other ideas?
 

Steveig84

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Oct 10, 2012
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Thanks ray-z,

I would say im doing all of those things already other than relaxing and turning of the computer/tv 1-2 hours before wanting to sleep...will take another look at what im doing!

The last 2 nights have been fine, after i left out the bicarb and slightly reduced my salt intake...im still having salt with everymeal just a small amount, should have access to a blood pressuer monitor later today so going to see how thats looking!

Thanks again!
 

peatarian

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Sep 18, 2012
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313
Try 1g of Aspirin half an hour before you go to bed.
It sounds like you either have too much estrogen/cortisol or too much T3.
 

Steveig84

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Oct 10, 2012
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Hi Peatarian,

Thanks for the tip, i have been using asprin anyway for my injury as i wasnt sure on the ibuproffen the doc prescribed me...
anywhere from 250-1500mg per day and often the last 500mg before bed, this does help me and my girlfriend sleep!

Things seem to be getting better again, i would guess im probably high in both estogen and cortisol right know due to the inflamation in my knee!

i would be very surpised if i have to much t3 as pulses and temps are still not optimal ;-)

Only thing that concerns me about lots of asprin is the blood thinning, as i have yet to find a vit k supp that i can get here and is within my price range for regualer use, been trying to make some bone broth and adding lots of kale for the last 1-2 hours before removing and drinking with meals.
I big pot lasts me 3-4 days hoping im getting enough Vit -k from that for the time being!

This is more of a concern once i return to my sport/hobby as brusing easily would be an issue..

any suggestions are more than welcome :):
 

peatarian

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Sep 18, 2012
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I sent you a PM about vitamin K.
Some of the things in the linked article are not correct.

Switch off the television and computer a few hours before bed.
*** You can wear orange lenses. We do. And that all day when we look a a PC or TV.

Avoid stimulants such as bright lights before bed.
*** Ray Peat advises to have bright light until you go to bed and if you can - even during sleeping.

Calmative exercises such as gentle yoga, stretching or meditation.
*** Not sure about yoga. A doctor (yeah, I know!) once told me it wasn't a good thing to be 'streched'. I never heard Peat talk about it.


Avoid strenuous or cardiovascular exercise in the evening or before bed (workouts also raise stress hormones, deplete glycogen stores (needed to balance blood sugar whilst sleeping) and can decrease reproductive hormones that promote sleep quality).
*** Ray Peat doesn't advise exercise at all. Maybe kneecaps with dumbbells for a few minutes every now and then.


Avoid or limit alcohol intake, as alcohol disrupts blood sugar levels, causing hypoglycemia during the night.
*** Alcohol orally is never a good idea. But I recently used valerian in alcohol (few drops) when I was too nervous to sleep. Worked like a charm.

Increase body temperature before bed by taking a hot bath or shower, which will help to induce sleep, lower adrenalin and support good thyroid function (metabolism). An Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) bath can also be a wonderful sleep-inducing practice before bedtime.
*** Yes, works very well! Just go straight to bed after the bath.

Manage stress during the day with simple, unwinding activities such as listening to music, deep breathing
*** No deep breathing if it's not into a paper bag.

, gentle movement exercises, a bath (as above), reading a book etc.
*** actually reading a book would be stimulating and if you read it in poor light, it would raise stress hormones.
 

Steveig84

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Oct 10, 2012
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peatarian said:
I sent you a PM about vitamin K.
Some of the things in the linked article are not correct.

Thanks i got the PM... ;-)

Switch off the television and computer a few hours before bed.
*** You can wear orange lenses. We do. And that all day when we look a a PC or TV.

Will have to look into getting some orange lenses as at the moment im am spending alot of time infront of the computer/Tv,
Are the availiable with prescribtion? as i already wear glasses/contact lenses?

Avoid stimulants such as bright lights before bed.
*** Ray Peat advises to have bright light until you go to bed and if you can - even during sleeping.

Been trying to keep the light on up until going to sleep, but my girlfriend hates it when we are watching a film/relaxing...
Still need to get more clued up on the lighting thing!

Calmative exercises such as gentle yoga, stretching or meditation.
*** Not sure about yoga. A doctor (yeah, I know!) once told me it wasn't a good thing to be 'streched'. I never heard Peat talk about it.

I do enjoy yoga, stretching and mediation and try to fit them in when i can alot the moment not some much due to my limited movment in my injured knee!


Avoid strenuous or cardiovascular exercise in the evening or before bed (workouts also raise stress hormones, deplete glycogen stores (needed to balance blood sugar whilst sleeping) and can decrease reproductive hormones that promote sleep quality).
*** Ray Peat doesn't advise exercise at all. Maybe kneecaps with dumbbells for a few minutes every now and then.

Well luckily im not someone who like doing sports late at night or early in the morning so if and when mostly during the day time, i do how ever still work in the fitness industry and am a pastionate action sports athlete (rollerblader) something im not ready to give up as it is a big passion and part of my life, friends/traveling and good times!
Im am how ever open to suggetions and ideas how to minimis the damage done and already use oj/gelatine/salt/barcab during activity and adiquate peat nutriton before and after and have dropped most other forms of training to allow for more time between and when im not skating i only really stretch and do some yoga, slacklining ect....


Avoid or limit alcohol intake, as alcohol disrupts blood sugar levels, causing hypoglycemia during the night.
*** Alcohol orally is never a good idea. But I recently used valerian in alcohol (few drops) when I was too nervous to sleep. Worked like a charm.

I rarely drink alcohol, like a few time a year max as i dont like the taste or effect when i do now i stick to rum and coke cola and try to eat some food at the same time, will look into valerian...is that similar to baldrian?

Increase body temperature before bed by taking a hot bath or shower, which will help to induce sleep, lower adrenalin and support good thyroid function (metabolism). An Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) bath can also be a wonderful sleep-inducing practice before bedtime.
*** Yes, works very well! Just go straight to bed after the bath.

I did use to take lots of epsom salt baths a while back but as our current flat has no bath tub no can do....moving in july next year and a bath tub is on my list for the new flat! :):

Manage stress during the day with simple, unwinding activities such as listening to music, deep breathing
*** No deep breathing if it's not into a paper bag.

Just start implementing bag breath back in as i did this a few years back...need to find some good bags that dont rip after 1 use...

, gentle movement exercises, a bath (as above), reading a book etc.
*** actually reading a book would be stimulating and if you read it in poor light, it would raise stress hormones.

Im not much of a reader unless its online, never been a book person!
 
Joined
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Try taking a benadryl about 45 minutes before bed. It's probably not Peat best practices but he's recommended it to a few people.
 

peatarian

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Sep 18, 2012
Messages
313
You don't have to spend a lot of money. I use sunglasses for athletes (cycling). They are orange. But I also have some I found on amazon, special computer glasses and TV-glasses. They also have them as clip ons for your normal glasses.

I think watching TV or working at them computer with poor light is a major cause for cortisol production. It took a while to get used to the bright light but now it's normal for us.

If you must exercise - eat chocolate before you do. It will keep the cortisol low.

Valerian is the english word for Baldrian.

There are good paper bags for potatoes in Organic food stores.
 

peatarian

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Sep 18, 2012
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About the benadryl - I have been using it for a while. But it never made me sleepy. Some people are knocked out completely. But I know from a few people who tell me they always wake up feeling bad. There seems to be a difference between natural sleep and drug induced sleep.
 

Steveig84

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Oct 10, 2012
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46
ok, thanks will try it out as we have some and its has worked for me before...will see how i react!

sounds like it would be a good idea to get on the orange lense asap seeing as in my injured state im not doing much other than surfing the web...only get out to go food shopping and am away from the computer when im cooking/preparing eating food!

im starting to think that the sleep issue may have something to do with me not meeting my raising metabolic needs as my pulse and temps are getting better and better and i do feel im eating more than before, have a funny feeling by body wont let me sleep until ive met these needs!

Will keep experienting!

oh and why specifaly chocoate? i was unter the impression the cocoa has a blood sugar lowing effect? is it for magnesium?
So milk with sugar, cocoa, salt and gelatin should do the trick...i some times add a teaspoon of coconut oil also...also use this before bed as veriation to ice cream ;-)
 

Ray-Z

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Oct 16, 2012
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Peatarian: Thanks for your corrections to, and improvements on, Kate's article. I am especially embarrassed that I missed the recommendation of "deep breathing," which I try very hard to avoid. :oops:
 

peatarian

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Sep 18, 2012
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Come on, Ray-Z! You are not really embarrassed ...?
I'd never post anything again.
 

Ray-Z

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Oct 16, 2012
Messages
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peatarian said:
Come on, Ray-Z! You are not really embarrassed ...?
I'd never post anything again.
:eek

[Ray-Z performs some hasty mental arithmetic and realizes that he could never find enough T3, pregnenolone, sugar, salt, aspirin, and so forth to overcome the loss of peatarian's writing.] Why, no, peatarian, I'm not embarrassed in the least by my sloppy reading. What ever gave you that idea? :mrgreen:
 

nutritionkate

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Nov 14, 2012
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Hey guys,
Just thought I should say that my site will probably not ever be 100% "correct" for hard core peat-followers. To be honest I have no qualms about this as my intention is to get Peat's general principles and dietary strategies out there to as many people as possible. This means toning it down for the general public/average "health nut" through the blog and then choosing how far to take the specifics of Peat-style eating/living with individual clients (some may never be into the finer details but helping to balance blood sugar, reduce PUFA, reduce fear of simple CHOs and a little general education can and does go a long way with plenty of people).
That was a long-winded way of saying those already familiar with the intricacies of Peat might read my blog with this in mind! :)
I know that darkness is stressful but I personally find I cannot get to sleep without it, and yes, avoiding bright lights before bed helps. I also find that reading before bed puts me to sleep and clients in clinic have reported that gentle yoga and stretching helps them, hence why it made the list (these types of exercise I believe will be always preferable to cardio).
I would definitely try a hot bath or even an Epsom bath as mentioned to try and get your temps up immediately before bed, and just for general relaxation. My favorite bed time snack is a small bowl of slightly warm ricotta drizzled with lots of warmed honey and a pinch of salt and stewed fruit, or a bowl of jello made with strained OJ, gelatin and salt, maybe topped with ice cream. Hope that helps?
Kate :)
 

peatarian

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Sep 18, 2012
Messages
313
Kate, I don't think anybody who is not Ray Peat will ever be 100% correct about Ray Peat. We all try, right?
Lately I recommended 400.000 I.U. of vitamin E to somebody.
Imagine drowning in vitamin E.
 
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