Can Pregnenolone Use Cause Carotenemia?

[answersfound]

Can pregnenolone use cause carotenemia? Vitamin A is no longer needed for steroid production so it becomes stored? I've had orange palms and heels for a while now, but my b12 levels always test high and I certainly don't need thyroid. I'm wondering if it is not clearing up because of the pregnenolone I took.

Thanks!

 

[Giraffe]

I wished I understood the mechanism of the conversion of beta-carotene to retinol. After heaving searched this a bit, I begin suspecting that nobody does really...

Carotenemia is mainly a problem of people with a sluggish liver and/or impaired kidney function. There have been a couple of studies looking at serum levels of both retinol and beta-carotene. Beta-carotene was highest in hypothyroid people in this study... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8475673

If you do a search you'll find a few more studies dealing with retinol and beta-carotene levels.

Did you note any other signs that pregnenolone is not doing you good?

 

[answersfound]

Interesting....what could cause liver issues? Cyproheptadine use? Aspirin use?

 

[answersfound]

Bump....can't seem to get the orange palms and heels to go away

 

[InterrogaOmnia]

Bump....can't seem to get the orange palms and heels to go away

Neither can I. In fact i think they have gotten slightly oranger over time or maybe i just have more calluses from work.

 

[marcar72]

Is it possible that the Ray Peat carrot salad is causing your problems with orange callouses and heels?

It's funny, but I used to eat carrots pretty regularly for about a year prior to "Peating". Once I started "Peating" though carrots were dropped from my regimen completely.

They probably even cause some of the G.I. problems people are complaining about here and there on this board... :2cents

 

[answersfound]

Is it possible that the Ray Peat carrot salad is causing your problems with orange callouses and heels?

It's funny, but I used to eat carrots pretty regularly for about a year prior to "Peating". Once I started "Peating" though carrots were dropped from my regimen completely.

They probably even cause some of the G.I. problems people are complaining about here and there on this board... :2cents

Haven't eaten carrots in weeks actually. I stopped supplementing vitamin A and now acne has come back. I got this from Ray:

"Vitamin B12 and thyroid will lower the carotene quickly, but the calluses take a long time to wear off."

 

[marcar72]

Is it possible that the Ray Peat carrot salad is causing your problems with orange callouses and heels?

It's funny, but I used to eat carrots pretty regularly for about a year prior to "Peating". Once I started "Peating" though carrots were dropped from my regimen completely.

They probably even cause some of the G.I. problems people are complaining about here and there on this board... :2cents

Haven't eaten carrots in weeks actually. I stopped supplementing vitamin A and now acne has come back. I got this from Ray:

"Vitamin B12 and thyroid will lower the carotene quickly, but the calluses take a long time to wear off."

Well I'd say you found your answer there probably. Just wait it out. I'd also make sure to never supplement vitamin A with a beta-carotene source. It's all about the preformed vitamin A in my book... :2cents

The reason I dropped carrots from my regimen when I first started "Peating" is because I read where Ray Peat said beta-carotene is more or less the same as PUFA. I knew I'd be getting preformed vitamin A from the liver I eat, so pretty much any beta-carotene in that situation wouldn't be converted to preformed, just stored away like PUFA... :2cents

 

[Giraffe]

The following is from Peaterian.com Email Exchanges
http://wiki.raypeatforum.com/index.php/ ... _Exchanges

Avoiding large amounts of carotene, and getting plenty of vitamin B12 to be able to convert any carotene that's in your food, helps to use vitamin A efficiently.

I found that when my need for vitamin A began to decrease I tended to accumulate carotene in my calluses; that happens when the thyroid function is lower, reducing the need for vitamin A. Since you are eating foods with carotene, the calluses on your palms or soles should serve as an indicator of when your tissues are saturated with vitamin A. About 100 i.u. of vitamin E would help to keep the vitamin A from being wasted by oxidation, and possibly could reduce your requirement for it.

f your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene.

I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same.

Yes, vitamin A and estrogen are antagonistic, and while estrogen promotes keratinization (shedding of skin cells), vitamin A opposes it. Since vitamin A is highly unsaturated, in excess it suppresses the thyroid, so it has to be balanced with the thyroid; the combination is effective for increasing progesterone and decreasing estrogen, slowing the turnover of skin cells, and making the skin cells function longer before flaking off.

 

[answersfound]

The following is from Peaterian.com Email Exchanges
http://wiki.raypeatforum.com/index.php/ ... _Exchanges

Avoiding large amounts of carotene, and getting plenty of vitamin B12 to be able to convert any carotene that's in your food, helps to use vitamin A efficiently.

I found that when my need for vitamin A began to decrease I tended to accumulate carotene in my calluses; that happens when the thyroid function is lower, reducing the need for vitamin A. Since you are eating foods with carotene, the calluses on your palms or soles should serve as an indicator of when your tissues are saturated with vitamin A. About 100 i.u. of vitamin E would help to keep the vitamin A from being wasted by oxidation, and possibly could reduce your requirement for it.

f your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene.

I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same.

Yes, vitamin A and estrogen are antagonistic, and while estrogen promotes keratinization (shedding of skin cells), vitamin A opposes it. Since vitamin A is highly unsaturated, in excess it suppresses the thyroid, so it has to be balanced with the thyroid; the combination is effective for increasing progesterone and decreasing estrogen, slowing the turnover of skin cells, and making the skin cells function longer before flaking off.

Thank you Giraffe! You are a kind soul!

 

[Such_Saturation]

You need vitamin E also.

 

[answersfound]

You need vitamin E also.

Why? Wouldn't that preserve the beta carotene that I'm trying to get rid of

 

[tara]

What tine frame are you talking? I would expect it to take months to replace callouses. Only my thicker calloused skin is still orange.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Carotene cleavage needs an antioxidant. Also animal vitamin A isn't turned into carotene.

 

[mujuro]

I got severe carotenemia, dry skin, seborrhea, flaking, hair loss and dandruff when I used retinyl palmitate. I believe some of us are incredibly sensitive to vitamin A in its active form. I had about 150,000iu over 7 days. Took about 3 or 4 months for everything to clear up. Skin was always ashy and flaky, but at the same time obscenely oily. Palms and soles were yellow. I could never find an answer to whether or not they add vitamins to low fat or skim milk in my country, but I believe it may have begun there. Symptoms of retinol excess had already begun emerging before I used the retinyl palmitate, but as we know, deficiency and excess can mimic one another.

 

[marcar72]

I got severe carotenemia, dry skin, seborrhea, flaking, hair loss and dandruff when I used retinyl palmitate. I believe some of us are incredibly sensitive to vitamin A in its active form.

Carotenemia is from too much beta carotene, not preformed vitamin A in the direct sense. From what I understand ample preformed vitamin A consumption could induce Carotenemia indirectly in that the body knows better to convert the beta carotene into more preformed vitamin A to avoid toxicity. I'm not sure how accurate that is though.

There are other variables that have to be present in the gut to convert beta carotene to preformed vitamin A. It's not a very efficient or reliable way to get vitamin A. One could still consume some beta carotene a bit I suppose and use callous color as a vitamin A indicator I guess... :2cents

I believe some of us are incredibly sensitive to vitamin A in its active form. I had about 150,000iu over 7 days. Took about 3 or 4 months for everything to clear up.

Where you taking micellized vitamin A (water soluble)? If so just know that supposedly it's 10 times more potent that normal, fat soluble vitamin A... :2cents

I could never find an answer to whether or not they add vitamins to low fat or skim milk in my country, but I believe it may have begun there.

I would imagine they do as they do here in the USA in all milks except whole milk for the most part. It's probably micellized vitamin A across the board if they're adding it into the milk. I was in another state a couple weeks ago and came across some whole milk that had vitamin A added to it even, how stupid is that? I figured it out when the RDA per cup on the label was 10% more than the milk I get from home.

Food can be soo screwy anymore...

 

[answersfound]

The carotenemia is definitely clearing up! It's amazing how it is such a significant block to metabolism. My temps are up and the orange color is not as significant. I attribute the improvement to avoiding carrots, obviously, and drinking two red bulls today. Taurine and caffeine are helpful to the liver and the b12 helps convert the carotene to retinol.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I doubt a callosity could change in response to such a thing, especially in this timeframe. Did you switch to different shoes?

 

[proteome]

The following is from Peaterian.com Email Exchanges
http://wiki.raypeatforum.com/index.php/ ... _Exchanges

@Giraffe, do you know why Beta-carotene would interfere with Thyroid hormone or function?

Where could I read more about that?

A naive search on Google Scholar suggests that they are linked, and that correcting for deficiencies will help Thyroid function.

But it seems like a dose response relationship at high levels might take more experience to suss out:

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

From the first response to this search:

 

[Giraffe]

@Giraffe, do you know why Beta-carotene would interfere with Thyroid hormone or function?

Where could I read more about that?

A naive search on Google Scholar suggests that they are linked, and that correcting for deficiencies will help Thyroid function.

But it seems like a dose response relationship at high levels might take more experience to suss out:

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

From the first response to this search:

Correcting a vitamin A deficiency will go a long way. Too much vitamin A in Ray Peat's view becomes detrimental. How much you need depends on your thyroid function (the better the thyroid, the more vitamin A you need). How much carotene you can actually convert to vitamin A depends on your thyroid and liver function, Ray Peat also has mentioned that too much carotene interferes with steroid production and digestion.

Mittir has a good understanding of Ray Peat's ideas. Please see this post. Ray briefly discussed it here.