Pregnenolone Is As Potent As Progesterone As An (irreversible) Aromatase Inhibitor

[Frankdee20]

I’m curious, can you clearly attribute those effects to pregnenolone—you had no other influences, and they went away after discontinuation? Using the perspective of this study, it would seem that one could use these larger doses short term, as the results were “irreversible”, and help shift a person out of an estrogen state—as @Spartan300 suggests above.

EDIT: @Frankdee20 I found some of you experiences here .

When I first began, those experiences were different. As I slowly acclimated, and added lots of fuel, I could tolerate a lot of Pregnenalone. Toward the end, after a decent stretch of two months, using 50 mg a day, started getting depersonalization. It effects the NMDA receptor, it actually activates it. Perhaps that can cause such feelings

 

[Spartan300]

Not sure how relevant this might be but I shot two of my best golf scores of the year after my 3 day 100mg experiment this week

 

[member 6316]

I think high dose pregnenolone would be better as it should be less sedating. The French study I mentioned said 250mg pregnenolone partially blocked estrogen's effects and 500mg fully blocked them.

pardon my ignorance but isn't it bad to fully block estrogen? aren't you supposed to have a little? does estrogen have no benefits I think i recall reading somewhere estradiol main active ingredient from estrogen has cognitive benefits and estrogen itself increase bone strength and dopamine.

 

[Tenacity]

"Perhaps more interestingly, the study shows that a treatment of several days is needed before estrogen synthesis is inhibited. For the first 3 days of exposure, the cells actually produced more estrogen than cells not exposed to pregnenolone/progesterone. And in cells with activated aromatase exposed to lower concentrations of progesterone there was much less aromatase inhbition. This may explain the pro-estrogenic effects some people have reported when using progesterone in lower doses or for shorter periods of time. It also suggests that for people with strong estrogen dominance that has continued for some time, higher doses progesterone and longer usage may be needed in order to block aromatase activity."

@haidut I asked Peat about this and he said that this info isn't relevant because this was an in vitro study, and that progesterone has no estrogenic effects at any dose. He seems to think that any perceived worsening in symptoms is due to nocebo or coincidence. What do you make of this?

 

[Mossy]

When I first began, those experiences were different. As I slowly acclimated, and added lots of fuel, I could tolerate a lot of Pregnenalone. Toward the end, after a decent stretch of two months, using 50 mg a day, started getting depersonalization. It effects the NMDA receptor, it actually activates it. Perhaps that can cause such feelings

I appreciate the additional info. I’ll keep the fuel aspect in mind, should I try this. If I understand the study correctly, one could take the larger doses for a short period—so, shorter than your two month stint, which may help to avoid those negative effects. It would be great to get a irreversible anti-estrogen boost—should the reaults of the study be reproducible.

 

[Mossy]

Not sure how relevant this might be but I shot two of my best golf scores of the year after my 3 day 100mg experiment this week

That is funny, but it makes sense to me. I remember my first dose of preg was 50mg, about 5 years ago, and I felt like the clock had turned back—I felt renewed.

 

[haidut]

"Perhaps more interestingly, the study shows that a treatment of several days is needed before estrogen synthesis is inhibited. For the first 3 days of exposure, the cells actually produced more estrogen than cells not exposed to pregnenolone/progesterone. And in cells with activated aromatase exposed to lower concentrations of progesterone there was much less aromatase inhbition. This may explain the pro-estrogenic effects some people have reported when using progesterone in lower doses or for shorter periods of time. It also suggests that for people with strong estrogen dominance that has continued for some time, higher doses progesterone and longer usage may be needed in order to block aromatase activity."

@haidut I asked Peat about this and he said that this info isn't relevant because this was an in vitro study, and that progesterone has no estrogenic effects at any dose. He seems to think that any perceived worsening in symptoms is due to nocebo or coincidence. What do you make of this?

I did not say progesterone has estrogenic effects. The study simply said that when lower doses of progesterone are used, for the first several days the exposed cells respond with producing more estrogen and then that subsides after 3 days. The comment on lower doses sometimes producing exacerbation of estrogenic symptoms actually come from Peat himself and he recommended using the higher doses until symptoms subside. I think @Blossom and/or @tara asked him about this and that was part of his response. I think he also said that if the higher doses do not help either then it suggests the liver is dysfunctional and needs to be supported with amino acids, sugar, aspirin, vitamin B1/B2, etc. Maybe others can provide his specific response on the lower vs. higher doses progesterone as it was not me who asked him.

 

[haidut]

pardon my ignorance but isn't it bad to fully block estrogen? aren't you supposed to have a little? does estrogen have no benefits I think i recall reading somewhere estradiol main active ingredient from estrogen has cognitive benefits and estrogen itself increase bone strength and dopamine.

I don't think it is possible to fully get rid of estrogen, and it is very rare for a person to have too little of it. The vast majority of people have too much, not too little. Fat tissue synthesizes primarily estrogen and since fat tissue grows with age while muscle one declines, you can imagine how "low" most people's estrogen really is.

 

[Blossom]

Peat himself and he recommended using the higher doses until symptoms subside. I think @Blossom and/or @tara asked him about this and that was part of his response.

I never asked him personally I just got the impression from reading his articles/newsletters that for females a higher dose initially is often necessary as it can liberate tissue bound estrogen which results in the estrogenic symptoms. When even high doses of progesterone aren’t enough increasing thyroid dose is what has helped me personally. Peat mentions this in the instructions for progest-e and in one of the older radio interviews. Sorry I don’t have sources at the moment but I can find them by tomorrow.

 

[Antonello]

I've been taking 100mg about three times a week for about 2 years. Saved me from terrible panic attacks. Can't go anywhere without the stuff

What product are you using bro?

 

[ddjd]

What product are you using bro?

100mg Pregnenolone from Life extensions

 

[tara]

The comment on lower doses sometimes producing exacerbation of estrogenic symptoms actually come from Peat himself and he recommended using the higher doses until symptoms subside. I think @Blossom and/or @tara asked him about this and that was part of his response.

It wasn't me that asked Peat either. I recall something similar to Blossom, from instructions published along with progest-E. Not sure if they were written by Peat or someone else.

 

[haidut]

It wasn't me that asked Peat either. I recall something similar to Blossom, from instructions published along with progest-E. Not sure if they were written by Peat or someone else.

Understood. I am pretty sure somebody asked him about not feeling better from lower doses Progest-E and he responded saying for some people much higher dose may be needed to oppose estrogen.
Anyways, I will find that comment and post it here. It is probably in the Peat email advisory thread.

 

[Fllora]

Understood. I am pretty sure somebody asked him about not feeling better from lower doses Progest-E and he responded saying for some people much higher dose may be needed to oppose estrogen.
Anyways, I will find that comment and post it here. It is probably in the Peat email advisory thread.

Never found the quote?

 

[AinmAnseo]

I've been taking 100mg about three times a week for about 2 years. Saved me from terrible panic attacks. Can't go anywhere without the stuff

What product were you using?

 

[AinmAnseo]

Thanks Dave. I've tried 100mg for the last 3 nights and I slept pretty well. I'm also feeling a bit less bothered by ongoing stresses. Did you have any issues when you stopped?

The study referenced seems to reference this as a one-off course of action to facilitate a shift in estrogen status so I'm not sure where to go with this.

Somewhere on this site, I read that one should not bother buying powdered progesterone or pregnenolone, as these oral powdered steroids won't get absorbed because they do not go into solution in water.
Is that right?
Paul

 

[Evolutionarily]

If one is experimenting with such high doses of pregnenolone as 100mg or more, would it be wise to complement it with some DHEA? Say a late 30's male takes 100mg, how much DHEA should he take? Thank you.

 

[Mossy]

If one is experimenting with such high doses of pregnenolone as 100mg or more, would it be wise to complement it with some DHEA? Say a late 30's male takes 100mg, how much DHEA should he take? Thank you.

Going through my notes, I found some comments by Haidut that you may find helpful:

He wrote:
"Most human studies show that pregnenolone converts almost entirely into progesterone and allopregnanolone, not much into DHEA. However, taking 500mg pregnenolone for 8 weeks did increase DHEA in humans but not by much. So, for people who want to increase DHEA direct supplementation may be needed. A dose of 5mg taken 2-3 times a day should be more than enough, according to Peat and the studies I have seen."

He also wrote (on that same thread):
"Some people get a highly androgenic effect from a combination of pregnenolone and DHEA. DHEA increases 5-AR and if pregnenolone does the same it would explain the big spikes in DHT people get with this combination."

And this (same thread):
"Pregnenolone on its own does not have androgenic effect in the vast majority of people. On the contrary - due to the increase in progesterone it is somewhat feminizing. However, combined with DHEA it seems to amplify the conversion of DHEA into T and DHT and reduce its conversion into estrogen (due to the increase in progesterone which keeps estrogen under control).
There is a clinical trial in Russia with pregnenolone + DHEA for andropause. I think the dose is 30mg pregnenolone and 10mg DHEA per pill but the optimal dose is not yet known. The trial should be able to find that out."

 

[learnedhelpless]

Going through my notes, I found some comments by Haidut that you may find helpful:

He wrote:
"Most human studies show that pregnenolone converts almost entirely into progesterone and allopregnanolone, not much into DHEA. However, taking 500mg pregnenolone for 8 weeks did increase DHEA in humans but not by much. So, for people who want to increase DHEA direct supplementation may be needed. A dose of 5mg taken 2-3 times a day should be more than enough, according to Peat and the studies I have seen."

He also wrote (on that same thread):
"Some people get a highly androgenic effect from a combination of pregnenolone and DHEA. DHEA increases 5-AR and if pregnenolone does the same it would explain the big spikes in DHT people get with this combination."

And this (same thread):
"Pregnenolone on its own does not have androgenic effect in the vast majority of people. On the contrary - due to the increase in progesterone it is somewhat feminizing. However, combined with DHEA it seems to amplify the conversion of DHEA into T and DHT and reduce its conversion into estrogen (due to the increase in progesterone which keeps estrogen under control).
There is a clinical trial in Russia with pregnenolone + DHEA for andropause. I think the dose is 30mg pregnenolone and 10mg DHEA per pill but the optimal dose is not yet known. The trial should be able to find that out."

Thanks for this, Haidut has a wealth of information.

 

[Mossy]

Thanks for this, Haidut has a wealth of information.

You're welcome. Yes, his contribution to this forum and grass-roots health in general is a great benefit.