Both "long" COVID-19 and CFS are likely caused by hypometabolism

[DonLore]

Update: I reset my body temp and I am feeling good again. Long covid might just be chronic low body temperature.

How did you reset it?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

How did you reset it?

Force it up, and do hypoventilation while it's up.

 

[freyasam]

This list of symptoms match the symptoms for thiamine deficiency/functional blockage. CFS is massively improved via high dose thiamine. This makes me wonder if the aftermath of covid (long haul covid) is caused by a functional blockage of thiamine.

Lots of thought provoking articles here: You searched for covid - Hormones Matter

Although I detect massively misguided confusion in the well meaning articles about hormones on the HormonesMatter site, the articles on thiamine are very good and have helped me a lot. They promote TTFD; I can't tolerate that type so I use old fashioned thiamine hcl.

Thank you for this information. When I was so sick because of a thiamine functional blockage last fall, my free T3 went through the roof while at the same time I had severe hypothyroid symptoms. I wonder if my lack of thiamine/functional blockage caused the TBG to fail/be reduced? I was diagnosed via MRI with early stage fatty liver, although the nutcase doctor didn't bother to order any blood work.

"...overweight and having crippling fatigue" are symptoms of thiamine deficiency/functional blockage. Perhaps you might find it helpful to research thiamine?

Although Ray Peat does not focus a lot on thiamine, he has mentioned its importance several times. Here is a collection of Ray Peat quotes about thiamine: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine

Thanks. I have tried thiamine several times in the past and it always gave me anxiety. It's on my list to try again sometime soon, though I did take Brewers yeast for a week which has thiamine and didn't feel better. I also eat liver weekly or every other week and my CFS symptoms don't seem to budge afterward.

 

[freyasam]

Thanks. I have tried thiamine several times in the past and it always gave me anxiety. It's on my list to try again sometime soon, though I did take Brewers yeast for a week which has thiamine and didn't feel better.

Multiple forms of it and varying doses

 

[freyasam]

I worked with Josh and Jeanne Rubin in 2014 (who were initially inspired by Peat) and got better fast. I know they highly recommend against Vit D supplementation. I can't help but think that if you've done the same thing for seven years, there's something wrong in the approach.

I haven't been doing the same thing for 7 years. There are many different approaches while adhering to RP principles. And yes, I've done approaches outside RP but come back to it because it's at least better than the other things that made me much worse.

 

[freyasam]

The issue is that people don't understand how severe of an illness chronic fatigue syndrome is, which is on purpose. The CDC named it that to discredit the patients so no one would have to recognize that environmental issues are making a lot of us sick.

It is a severe, complex illness that clearly hasn't gone away for many of us who have understood and implemented Peat's principles. I'm far from the only one. One very bright person used to comment here who was doing a Peaty approach for severe ME/CFS. He is now considering assisted suicide. Just because Peat inspired doesn't work for some people, doesn't mean we did it wrong or we're stupid. If there's any commonality among CFS patients that I have noticed, it is intelligence and perseverance. I actually think that the brain's higher usage of glucose in people with above-average intelligence is a contributing factor in CFS / ME patients.

When I say I have been following Peat's principles for 7 years, I am simplifying the matter so that I don't write a novel of all the approaches I have tried. I'm fully capable of reassessing my approach and have many, many times.

Frankly, I wish people in the Peat community who do not have ME/CFS would STOP proclaiming that Peating will cure it and that it's a simple matter of hypometabolism. I've actually read people smugly say, "just take thyroid." For those of us suffering with this monster of an illness, it's incredibly disheartening to hear that over and over.

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks. I have tried thiamine several times in the past and it always gave me anxiety. It's on my list to try again sometime soon, though I did take Brewers yeast for a week which has thiamine and didn't feel better. I also eat liver weekly or every other week and my CFS symptoms don't seem to budge afterward.

If you have a long term thiamine deficiency the resolution to the problem is not an overnight fix. It takes some time because the body compensates for the thiamine deficiency and other things get out of whack. You could have other B vitamin deficiencies too along with possible magnesium deficiency and your potassium use might be a problem too. There's a lot of moving parts. If you take thiamine and you have anxiety from it, it could be that another vitamin you are short on has been suddenly used up and this is causing you to feel worse. A good b-complex might be the solution, in addition to the thiamine. It is important to take enough thiamine. If you are dealing with a long term thiamine deficiency or thiamine functional blockage, you may need high dose thiamine in order to get things working again.

I found the videos about thiamine at EONutrition on youtube very helpful: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFqXidfUsI0vm73xsBMIQdQ

This one is very good; it's an interview of Dr. Chandler Marrs:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkKmiZkiEPI

 

[mostlylurking]

Frankly, I wish people in the Peat community who do not have ME/CFS would STOP proclaiming that Peating will cure it and that it's a simple matter of hypometabolism. I've actually read people smugly say, "just take thyroid." For those of us suffering with this monster of an illness, it's incredibly disheartening to hear that over and over.

I had CFS for over 25 years. Some years were a lot worse than others. I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis in 2014. I found Ray Peat's work that December. I recovered from the rheumatoid arthritis via diet and thyroid medication and did not have to go into assisted living after all because I could again take care of myself.

Last year I got really sick. I was still doing my Peaty diet but I had gotten a bladder infection and took Bactrim for it. It nearly killed me (the Bactrim). Three months after taking that antibiotic it was excruciating to roll over in bed. I could barely walk across the room. I could not get my temperature above 97.6 degrees, even though I had addressed my hypothyroidism and was taking 3 grains (180mg) of desiccated thyroid/day.

I tried taking about 250-300mg of thiamine hcl because I remembered Haidut saying that it would clear up lactic acid in the body and I was pretty sure that I had lactic acidosis and was trapped in Otto Warburg's cancer metabolism. Within 45 minutes, the pain disappeared and my temperature shot up to 98.6, the first time that had happened in weeks.

Please note that hypothyroidism is not the only thing that causes hypometabolism; thiamine deficiency causes it in spades. If you are deficient in thiamine, 180mg/day of prescription natural desiccated thyroid doesn't do squat other than elevate your T3 to dangerous levels.

I've been taking 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl since 2/1/2021. It has given me my life back. My endocrinologist has reduced the dose of my thyroid med twice; now I'm taking 135mg/day instead of 180mg. I feel better than I have in many years and I can walk 2 miles/day with no soreness afterwards.

 

[Dr. B]

If you have a long term thiamine deficiency the resolution to the problem is not an overnight fix. It takes some time because the body compensates for the thiamine deficiency and other things get out of whack. You could have other B vitamin deficiencies too along with possible magnesium deficiency and your potassium use might be a problem too. There's a lot of moving parts. If you take thiamine and you have anxiety from it, it could be that another vitamin you are short on has been suddenly used up and this is causing you to feel worse. A good b-complex might be the solution, in addition to the thiamine. It is important to take enough thiamine. If you are dealing with a long term thiamine deficiency or thiamine functional blockage, you may need high dose thiamine in order to get things working again.

I found the videos about thiamine at EONutrition on youtube very helpful: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFqXidfUsI0vm73xsBMIQdQ

This one is very good; it's an interview of Dr. Chandler Marrs:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkKmiZkiEPI

can you do a b complex containing something like, 10mg thiamine, 5mg riboflavin, 15mg niacinamide, 50mg b5, 10mg b6, 250mcg biotin, 50mcg folate, 50mcg b12.
taken daily, would that help you get over any deficiencies, considering basically all those, besides the niacinamide and folate are several times above the RDA amounts? i guess if really necessary you could add in some additional niacinamide/folate if you wanted to attain it via supplements?
do you think thiamine is different from the iodine groups, vitamin c, and vitamin d groups? it seems each vitamin these days, has like youtubers and forums dedicated to the miraculous effects of the specific vitamin megadosing. it started with vitamin C initially, but nowadays almost every vitamin has people advising on megadosing and advertising it as a cure

 

[mostlylurking]

can you do a b complex containing something like, 10mg thiamine, 5mg riboflavin, 15mg niacinamide, 50mg b5, 10mg b6, 250mcg biotin, 50mcg folate, 50mcg b12.
taken daily, would that help you get over any deficiencies, considering basically all those, besides the niacinamide and folate are several times above the RDA amounts? i guess if really necessary you could add in some additional niacinamide/folate if you wanted to attain it via supplements?
do you think thiamine is different from the iodine groups, vitamin c, and vitamin d groups? it seems each vitamin these days, has like youtubers and forums dedicated to the miraculous effects of the specific vitamin megadosing. it started with vitamin C initially, but nowadays almost every vitamin has people advising on megadosing and advertising it as a cure

I suggest you watch the video I posted above. It explains why thiamine is different. You are deprecating my post and offering nothing to add to the discussion.

I found that taking a single capsule of this B-complex seems to work for me (taken with 2 grams of thiamine hcl/day): B-Complex Plus - 120 Capsules I take additional niacinamide, riboflavin, and biotin besides this B-complex.

Please note that in 1994, when I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, that doctor prescribed 16 capsules of B-complex/day along with weekly injections of B-12. I did that for a couple of years and got well, at least for several years.

 

[freyasam]

I had CFS for over 25 years. Some years were a lot worse than others. I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis in 2014. I found Ray Peat's work that December. I recovered from the rheumatoid arthritis via diet and thyroid medication and did not have to go into assisted living after all because I could again take care of myself.

Last year I got really sick. I was still doing my Peaty diet but I had gotten a bladder infection and took Bactrim for it. It nearly killed me (the Bactrim). Three months after taking that antibiotic it was excruciating to roll over in bed. I could barely walk across the room. I could not get my temperature above 97.6 degrees, even though I had addressed my hypothyroidism and was taking 3 grains (180mg) of desiccated thyroid/day.

I tried taking about 250-300mg of thiamine hcl because I remembered Haidut saying that it would clear up lactic acid in the body and I was pretty sure that I had lactic acidosis and was trapped in Otto Warburg's cancer metabolism. Within 45 minutes, the pain disappeared and my temperature shot up to 98.6, the first time that had happened in weeks.

Please note that hypothyroidism is not the only thing that causes hypometabolism; thiamine deficiency causes it in spades. If you are deficient in thiamine, 180mg/day of prescription natural desiccated thyroid doesn't do squat other than elevate your T3 to dangerous levels.

I've been taking 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl since 2/1/2021. It has given me my life back. My endocrinologist has reduced the dose of my thyroid med twice; now I'm taking 135mg/day instead of 180mg. I feel better than I have in many years and I can walk 2 miles/day with no soreness afterwards.

Thanks for sharing that information. I wasn't referring to you in my above post, because I know you've had ME/CFS and you haven't described it as an easy thing to fix. I was thinking of people who insult ME/CFS patients by saying we're dumb because it could easily be fixed with thyroid (I've seen that in this forum) and that "chronic fatigue is just hypometabolism." These types are easy to spot because they confuse ME/CFS with "chronic fatigue" which is ridiculous as anyone who's had moderate to severe CFS knows. And I think it's important to note that Peat has been asked multiple times how to treat CFS and he never directly answers the question.

 

[freyasam]

I had CFS for over 25 years. Some years were a lot worse than others. I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis in 2014. I found Ray Peat's work that December. I recovered from the rheumatoid arthritis via diet and thyroid medication and did not have to go into assisted living after all because I could again take care of myself.

Last year I got really sick. I was still doing my Peaty diet but I had gotten a bladder infection and took Bactrim for it. It nearly killed me (the Bactrim). Three months after taking that antibiotic it was excruciating to roll over in bed. I could barely walk across the room. I could not get my temperature above 97.6 degrees, even though I had addressed my hypothyroidism and was taking 3 grains (180mg) of desiccated thyroid/day.

I tried taking about 250-300mg of thiamine hcl because I remembered Haidut saying that it would clear up lactic acid in the body and I was pretty sure that I had lactic acidosis and was trapped in Otto Warburg's cancer metabolism. Within 45 minutes, the pain disappeared and my temperature shot up to 98.6, the first time that had happened in weeks.

Please note that hypothyroidism is not the only thing that causes hypometabolism; thiamine deficiency causes it in spades. If you are deficient in thiamine, 180mg/day of prescription natural desiccated thyroid doesn't do squat other than elevate your T3 to dangerous levels.

I've been taking 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl since 2/1/2021. It has given me my life back. My endocrinologist has reduced the dose of my thyroid med twice; now I'm taking 135mg/day instead of 180mg. I feel better than I have in many years and I can walk 2 miles/day with no soreness afterwards.

I've taken a lot of B vitamins. I've taken a B complex (no change), B1 (bad anxiety), B3 (that lasted for about a year then it seemed to stop working), B5, B6 & B12 (have taken those almost daily for a couple years because I get nerve pain if I stop), folate... B11 I think. At some point I kind of gave up hope B's would fix me. But I will watch the video though, and give the various B1 formulations I have in the cabinet another shot. Thank you. :)

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks for sharing that information. I wasn't referring to you in my above post, because I know you've had ME/CFS and you haven't described it as an easy thing to fix. I was thinking of people who insult ME/CFS patients by saying we're dumb because it could easily be fixed with thyroid (I've seen that in this forum) and that "chronic fatigue is just hypometabolism." These types are easy to spot because they confuse ME/CFS with "chronic fatigue" which is ridiculous as anyone who's had moderate to severe CFS knows. And I think it's important to note that Peat has been asked multiple times how to treat CFS and he never directly answers the question.

Here's what I think after 27 years of living with diagnosed CFS: I think that CFS is a hypometabolic disease in the extreme; there's no "just" about it. The amazing thing that I discovered in the past year is that seriously addressing thiamine deficiency/functional blockage cures it or at least resolves all the symptoms. Thiamine hcl injections might be appropriate. Oral thiamine hcl resolved it for me. I take 2 grams/day.

I can honestly say that I have suffered from CFS for over 50 years. I've recently learned that my heavy metal poisoning from mercury amalgam fillings and also the lead, arsenic, aluminum, cadmium, etc. that the chelation challenge test showed, blocked my thiamine function when I was a kid. Both of my siblings also got mouthfuls of mercury amalgam fillings; they both suffered permanent brain damage by the age of 20. I now suspect that the brain damage they suffered was Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome:

Wernicke Encephalopathy - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Heavy metal poisoning blocks thiamine function and compromised thiamine function blocks the body's ability to get rid of heavy metals. The metabolic function is damaged by thiamine deficiency/functional blockage which compromises all the body's organs, including the brain, and the autonomic nervous system. Like I said, there's no "just" about it. It is a very serious situation.

I've taken a lot of B vitamins. I've taken a B complex (no change), B1 (bad anxiety), B3 (that lasted for about a year then it seemed to stop working), B5, B6 & B12 (have taken those almost daily for a couple years because I get nerve pain if I stop), folate... B11 I think. At some point I kind of gave up hope B's would fix me. But I will watch the video though, and give the various B1 formulations I have in the cabinet another shot. Thank you. :)

Nerve pain = thiamine deficiency. B6 can't work if there is a thiamine deficiency. Most people who are deficient in thiamine are also deficient in the other B vitamins; a good B-complex is a really good idea. You can over-do some of the B's, B5 and B6 for example, and also B12. Ray Peat sometimes makes safe dosage suggestions. He has not addressed high dose thiamine. High dose thiamine is considered a pharmacological treatment. But you can get it over the counter. My 84 year old endocrinologist has told me that he considers thiamine hcl a safe supplement and is OK with me taking high doses of it. That said, I spent 3 months stair-stepping my dose up to my optimum dose of 2 grams. I'm really glad I took the trouble to do that. This was not an overnight fix.

I think it would be a really good idea if you would consider deep diving into thiamine research so that you will understand about it. I have found the following sources to be extremely helpful:
EONutrition on youtube (link in previous post) has some great educational videos about thiamine.

Dr. Costantini's website, the therapy page, FAQs, and also his published papers that are hidden under "Blog Posts": HDT Therapy
this paper especially: High-dose thiamine improves the symptoms
of fibromyalgia . Be sure to watch the videos of Dr. Costantini's patients here: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu He treated over 4,000 Parkinson's Disease patients with high dose thiamine; the rapid progress these patients made is truly eye opening.

The search results for "thiamine" on hormonesmatter.com: You searched for thiamine - Hormones Matter Dr. Lonsdale is very knowledgeable and writes some of the articles and answers questions sometimes in the Comments.

I hope you find this information helpful.

 

[freyasam]

Here's what I think after 27 years of living with diagnosed CFS: I think that CFS is a hypometabolic disease in the extreme; there's no "just" about it. The amazing thing that I discovered in the past year is that seriously addressing thiamine deficiency/functional blockage cures it or at least resolves all the symptoms. Thiamine hcl injections might be appropriate. Oral thiamine hcl resolved it for me. I take 2 grams/day.

I can honestly say that I have suffered from CFS for over 50 years. I've recently learned that my heavy metal poisoning from mercury amalgam fillings and also the lead, arsenic, aluminum, cadmium, etc. that the chelation challenge test showed, blocked my thiamine function when I was a kid. Both of my siblings also got mouthfuls of mercury amalgam fillings; they both suffered permanent brain damage by the age of 20. I now suspect that the brain damage they suffered was Wernicke's encephalopathy:

Wernicke Encephalopathy - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Heavy metal poisoning blocks thiamine function and compromised thiamine function blocks the body's ability to get rid of heavy metals. The metabolic function is damaged by thiamine deficiency/functional blockage which compromises all the body's organs, including the brain, and the autonomic nervous system. Like I said, there's no "just" about it. It is a very serious situation.



Nerve pain = thiamine deficiency. B6 can't work if there is a thiamine deficiency. Most people who are deficient in thiamine are also deficient in the other B vitamins; a good B-complex is a really good idea. You can over-do some of the B's, B5 and B6 for example, and also B12. Ray Peat sometimes makes safe dosage suggestions. He has not addressed high dose thiamine. High dose thiamine is considered a pharmaceutical treatment. But you can get it over the counter. My 84 year old endocrinologist has told me that he considers thiamine hcl a safe supplement and is OK with me taking high doses of it. That said, I spent 3 months stair-stepping my dose up to my optimum dose of 2 grams. I'm really glad I took the trouble to do that. This was not an overnight fix.

I think it would be a really good idea if you would consider deep diving into thiamine research so that you will understand about it. I have found the following sources to be extremely helpful:
EONutrition on youtube (link in previous post) has some great educational videos about thiamine.

Dr. Costantini's website, the therapy page, FAQs, and also his published papers that are hidden under "Blog Posts": HDT Therapy
this paper especially: High-dose thiamine improves the symptoms
of fibromyalgia . Be sure to watch the videos of Dr. Costantini's patients here: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu He treated over 4,000 Parkinson's Disease patients with high dose thiamine; the rapid progress these patients made is truly eye opening.

The search results for "thiamine" on hormonesmatter.com: You searched for thiamine - Hormones Matter Dr. Lonsdale is very knowledgeable and writes some of the articles and answers questions sometimes in the Comments.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Thanks so much! That's very helpful. :)

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks so much! That's very helpful. :)

Glad I could help.

 

[lampofred]

If there's any commonality among CFS patients that I have noticed, it is intelligence and perseverance. I actually think that the brain's higher usage of glucose in people with above-average intelligence is a contributing factor in CFS / ME patients.

When I say I have been following Peat's principles for 7 years, I am simplifying the matter so that I don't write a novel of all the approaches I have tried. I'm fully capable of reassessing my approach and have many, many times.

I have noticed that too, but I think in general it is a false intelligence and a false perseverance. It is a book-smart intelligence which misses the forest for the trees (the purpose of being a good person is to maximize happiness for all in the long-run, but they sacrifice happiness for the sake of being "good" in the sense of obediently following rules, and eventually the lack of happiness makes them feel suicidal) and it is a destructive perseverance which doesn't understand when is the right time to quit, not a genuinely optimistic perseverance (because the purpose of perseverance is to maximize happiness for all in the long-run by sticking something through instead of quitting prematurely, but if the effort of being perseverant is greater than the reward of eventually succeeding, it would be missing the forest for the trees to continue persevering).

In fact I think a large part of chronic fatigue has to do with falseness, people who maintain false, idealistic personas in order to live up to some obsessively perfect standard tend to get the issue, not people who live from the heart. And maintaining such a persona is extremely energy intensive for the brain, which is why brain energy consumption is so high in CFS. ATP is being consumed extremely rapidly, so they are hypometabolic in the sense that they have insufficient ATP, but it's because ATP is being consumed too rapidly, not because it's not being produced quickly enough by thyroid. The front part of the brain is also overactive relative to the back part of the brain.

I think the key to chronic fatigue is learning how to live from the heart, which is much more energy efficient than living from the head, but that's easier said than done.

 

[freyasam]

I have noticed that too, but I think in general it is a false intelligence and a false perseverance. It is a book-smart intelligence which misses the forest for the trees (the purpose of being a good person is to maximize happiness for all in the long-run, but they sacrifice happiness for the sake of being "good" in the sense of obediently following rules, and eventually the lack of happiness makes them feel suicidal) and it is a destructive perseverance which doesn't understand when is the right time to quit, not a genuinely optimistic perseverance (because the purpose of perseverance is to maximize happiness for all in the long-run by sticking something through instead of quitting prematurely, but if the effort of being perseverant is greater than the reward of eventually succeeding, it would be missing the forest for the trees to continue persevering).

In fact I think a large part of chronic fatigue has to do with falseness, people who maintain false, idealistic personas in order to live up to some obsessively perfect standard tend to get the issue, not people who live from the heart. And maintaining such a persona is extremely energy intensive for the brain, which is why brain energy consumption is so high in CFS. ATP is being consumed extremely rapidly, so they are hypometabolic in the sense that they have insufficient ATP, but it's because ATP is being consumed too rapidly, not because it's not being produced quickly enough by thyroid. The front part of the brain is also overactive relative to the back part of the brain.

I think the key to chronic fatigue is learning how to live from the heart, which is much more energy efficient than living from the head, but that's easier said than done.

I think there's some truth to the part I bolded, because I've noticed that a lot of CFS ppl are overachievers and perfectionists. But many are also anti-authoritarian and not obedient, and do live from the heart. Lots of CFSers make non-mainstream life choices -- so many writers, musicians and artists in the CFS groups I've seen. I was actively seeking to "live from my heart" and made eccentric, non-conformist life choices that people viewed as very weird (like living off grid in the wilderness, as one example) for several years by the time I got sick. Perhaps the conflict between societal expectations and our desire to lead heart-led lives contributes to the sickness, which is what I suspect happened in my case. I disagree that most pwME/CFS have intelligence limited to book smarts. Do / did you have it?

 

[Dr. B]

I suggest you watch the video I posted above. It explains why thiamine is different. You are deprecating my post and offering nothing to add to the discussion.

I found that taking a single capsule of this B-complex seems to work for me (taken with 2 grams of thiamine hcl/day): B-Complex Plus - 120 Capsules I take additional niacinamide, riboflavin, and biotin besides this B-complex.

Please note that in 1994, when I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, that doctor prescribed 16 capsules of B-complex/day along with weekly injections of B-12. I did that for a couple of years and got well, at least for several years.

thats folse. I dont know what you mean by deprecating.
thiamine is definitely unique, its the only carbonic anhydrase inhibitor of any vitamin/mineral I think? i think that carbonic anhydrase inhibting property, may be whats responsible for its benefits even when megadosed. those benefits go beyond any specific vitamin or mineral nutrient deficiency, to where it can actually replicate some of the benefits of being in high altitude. so yes even just seeing Peats stuff, thiamine seems like it could be more useful than other bs, like vitamin e and d...
have you tried any other carbonic anhydrase boosters or pro CO2 activites? drank lots of pomegranate juice? tried acetolzolamide?

how much of the b3, b2, and biotin do you use daily.
do you think, if taking in 500mg thiamine a day, would it be enough to get like, 10mg b2, 15mg b3, 300mcg biotin a day alongside those, and 50mg b5, 50mcg folate , 50mcg b12. referring to supplements only.

so thiamine rda is 1.4mg, do you think 10mg thiamine a day would be enough to resolve any deficiency issues, or are the hundred milligram dosages needed? like did you notice a difference in effect, going up to 2grams compared to 500mg or 100mg? thiamine is interesting since its a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor... only mineral or vitamin that does that i think right

mate everything looks good in that b vitamin but ascorbyl palmitate in the ingredients theres horror story complaints of that ingredient on amazon reviews its very inflammatory, sourced from molds/fungus

 

[mostlylurking]

I dont know what you mean by deprecating.

look it up.

I'm not going to write a book for you. It won't matter what I say to you; you are not receptive to what I have offered. I am not going to waste my time arguing with you.

If you want to know more about the subject, I have already provided links to information.

If you want to know what others think about the subject of thiamine, there's a handy search engine in the header.

You keep asking me pointed questions about dosages and if they will work. I don't know the answers to these pointed dosage questions. People are different; while something might work for one person it may not work for others.

This discussion meandered over to the subject of high dose thiamine being beneficial to people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. This information would not be applicable to many people but it probably is of great interest to people with CFS. High dose thiamine is a pharmacological application using vitamin B1. High dose thiamine is not a topic that Ray Peat has discussed. Although I have followed a Peaty diet for almost 7 years and I truly believe Ray Peat saved my life, I understand that there is additional valid information and research available on the internet that can be helpful. I will always be thankful for Ray Peat's guidance and his knowledge helps guide me when I evaluate another source's information.

 

[mostlylurking]

I have noticed that too, but I think in general it is a false intelligence and a false perseverance. It is a book-smart intelligence which misses the forest for the trees (the purpose of being a good person is to maximize happiness for all in the long-run, but they sacrifice happiness for the sake of being "good" in the sense of obediently following rules, and eventually the lack of happiness makes them feel suicidal) and it is a destructive perseverance which doesn't understand when is the right time to quit, not a genuinely optimistic perseverance (because the purpose of perseverance is to maximize happiness for all in the long-run by sticking something through instead of quitting prematurely, but if the effort of being perseverant is greater than the reward of eventually succeeding, it would be missing the forest for the trees to continue persevering).

In fact I think a large part of chronic fatigue has to do with falseness, people who maintain false, idealistic personas in order to live up to some obsessively perfect standard tend to get the issue, not people who live from the heart. And maintaining such a persona is extremely energy intensive for the brain, which is why brain energy consumption is so high in CFS. ATP is being consumed extremely rapidly, so they are hypometabolic in the sense that they have insufficient ATP, but it's because ATP is being consumed too rapidly, not because it's not being produced quickly enough by thyroid. The front part of the brain is also overactive relative to the back part of the brain.

I think the key to chronic fatigue is learning how to live from the heart, which is much more energy efficient than living from the head, but that's easier said than done.

Well, no. That's not it at all actually. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is a serious disease that involves mitochondrial malfunction and death of mitochondria. You are accusing CFS sufferers of self infliction via a personality flaw.

Wow.