Better Metabolism- Higher Heart Rate And. Lower Oxygen Saturation (spO2)?

[Blossom]

@Blossom I have used Scotch brand satin finish gift wrap tape between my eyebrows at night for years to keep the muscles relaxed. When I started reading about taping the mouth at night by @tara I started using it on my mouth. I use a small piece in the center of my mouth and it works. This tape may seem stiff but it leaves no red reaction and holds quite well. It is found in the gift wrap area of many stores. Many tapes and band aids cause skin reactions in my experience.

Thank you so much @Dolomite! That should be easy enough to find.

 

[Blossom]

Does it make sense that CO2 somehow helps provide antioxidant protection to the generation of ROS due to the oxidative nature of oxygen? A yin to the yang?

I found this helpful explanation from aetherforce dot com that I thought you'd enjoy. Sorry if I'm going off topic but it seems like an important consideration to the conversation.

"Ray Peat suggests that the effect carbon dioxide has on haemoglobin, the conformation change that allows for the release of oxygen into tissues is a general electronic effect, and that carbon dioxide is capable of acting similarly on other proteins, that in the words of Gilbert Ling carbon dioxide is a “cardinal adsorbent”, that is a substance exerting a powerful controlling influence on the protein conformation and the associated water structure, acting to structure water in the cell eliminating swelling and oedema, restoring order and coherence to the excited cell.

Evidence for carbon dioxide’s capacity to act in way that restores order and coherence to the cellular structure can be seen in its capacity to protect the brain from hypoxia (Vannucci et al. 1995), inhibit formation of ROS (Kogan et al. 1997), stabilise mast cells inhibiting histamine release (Strider et al. 2010), stabilising nerve cells (Krnjevic et al. 1965), its inhibition of lactate formation (Cohen et al. 1990). These attributes (especially the inhibition of ROS and lactate) suggest that carbon dioxide is acting to optimize energy production, preventing electron leakage during redox reactions, favoring efficient coherent mitochondrial oxidative metabolism. The use of carbonic anhydrase inhibitors in reducing tumor growth supports the importance of carbon dioxide as a fundamental regulator of metabolism (Supuran and Scozzafava 2000).

Carbon dioxide has many other physiological actions including, vasodilation (Foëx and Ryder 1979), given this it is obvious then that hyperventilation would lead to hypertension and other circulatory diseases, as well as playing a role in the aetiology of neurodegenerative diseases, both through its promotion of circulation, and optimizing mitochondrial function, both of which will be inhibited by hyperventilation. CO2 is also involved in broncodilation (van den Elshout et al. 1991), and muscle relaxation (Hoyle 1960). Carbon dioxide appears to play a role in bone mineralization, and whilst metabolic acidosis has some associations with bone loss, respiratory acidosis (high CO2) does not show the same associations and may be protective (Bushinsky et al. 1993). Perhaps this would explain the stories of yogis and internal martial artists having strong bones. Carbon dioxide seems to play a key role in the secretion of hydrochloric acid by the stomach (Davies 1951), this supports the assertion that pranayama increases ‘the digestive fire’. Carbon dioxide protects against lung injury both prophylactically and therapeutically (Laffey et al. 2003, Salmon and Hotchkiss 2007).

Yandell Henderson (1940) saw that:

“Carbon dioxide is the chief hormone of the entire body; it is the only one that is produced by every tissue and that probably acts on every organ.”

However I suspect even this is massively understating things, carbon dioxide is something truly miraculous, Henderson also called carbon dioxide “the breath of life”, this phrase represents a much clearer and more accurate understanding of CO2, and it’s importance to biology."

 

[nwo2012]

Thanks @tara! I knew you'd have some helpful suggestions to improve my sleeping situation.
BTW, What type of tape do you recommend?
@nwo2012, which tape do you and your family use?

We find Leukosilk to be best. Are you in US? I think its available there, certainly abundant here in Australia.

 

[nwo2012]

@Blossom snd @nwo2012

This white noise maker - it is not the cheap versions on a loop that have a gap the brain picks up - thus wakes up. My husband and I sleep on the floor on a thin cotton stuffed shiatsu mat (very comfy actually) BUT we live in an condo with people on all sides of us up, down, etc. We could hear the downstairs person’s base from speakers and was vibrating the floor grrrgh....

After a lot of research to find out what could block it - this white noise maker came up. We got one and it really helped. Thankfully they moved - AND we were hooked on how well we sleep with it. In fact we bought a second one and a travel case to take with us - works excellent in hotel rooms. We never hear anything or anyone anymore.

LectroFan High Fidelity White... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MY8V86Q?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

Thanks, will look into this.

 

[yerrag]

I found this helpful explanation from aetherforce dot com that I thought you'd enjoy. Sorry if I'm going off topic but it seems like an important consideration to the conversation.

"Ray Peat suggests that the effect carbon dioxide has on haemoglobin, the conformation change that allows for the release of oxygen into tissues is a general electronic effect, and that carbon dioxide is capable of acting similarly on other proteins, that in the words of Gilbert Ling carbon dioxide is a “cardinal adsorbent”, that is a substance exerting a powerful controlling influence on the protein conformation and the associated water structure, acting to structure water in the cell eliminating swelling and oedema, restoring order and coherence to the excited cell.

Evidence for carbon dioxide’s capacity to act in way that restores order and coherence to the cellular structure can be seen in its capacity to protect the brain from hypoxia (Vannucci et al. 1995), inhibit formation of ROS (Kogan et al. 1997), stabilise mast cells inhibiting histamine release (Strider et al. 2010), stabilising nerve cells (Krnjevic et al. 1965), its inhibition of lactate formation (Cohen et al. 1990). These attributes (especially the inhibition of ROS and lactate) suggest that carbon dioxide is acting to optimize energy production, preventing electron leakage during redox reactions, favoring efficient coherent mitochondrial oxidative metabolism. The use of carbonic anhydrase inhibitors in reducing tumor growth supports the importance of carbon dioxide as a fundamental regulator of metabolism (Supuran and Scozzafava 2000).

Carbon dioxide has many other physiological actions including, vasodilation (Foëx and Ryder 1979), given this it is obvious then that hyperventilation would lead to hypertension and other circulatory diseases, as well as playing a role in the aetiology of neurodegenerative diseases, both through its promotion of circulation, and optimizing mitochondrial function, both of which will be inhibited by hyperventilation. CO2 is also involved in broncodilation (van den Elshout et al. 1991), and muscle relaxation (Hoyle 1960). Carbon dioxide appears to play a role in bone mineralization, and whilst metabolic acidosis has some associations with bone loss, respiratory acidosis (high CO2) does not show the same associations and may be protective (Bushinsky et al. 1993). Perhaps this would explain the stories of yogis and internal martial artists having strong bones. Carbon dioxide seems to play a key role in the secretion of hydrochloric acid by the stomach (Davies 1951), this supports the assertion that pranayama increases ‘the digestive fire’. Carbon dioxide protects against lung injury both prophylactically and therapeutically (Laffey et al. 2003, Salmon and Hotchkiss 2007).

Yandell Henderson (1940) saw that:

“Carbon dioxide is the chief hormone of the entire body; it is the only one that is produced by every tissue and that probably acts on every organ.”

However I suspect even this is massively understating things, carbon dioxide is something truly miraculous, Henderson also called carbon dioxide “the breath of life”, this phrase represents a much clearer and more accurate understanding of CO2, and it’s importance to biology."

So much good stuff on carbon dioxide. Thanks for sharing this. Makes me want to start trying out my carbogen bath. I just want to see personally what it can do for me. I've had it for a year already and haven't tried it. I wasn't keen on using the carbogen breathing unit, as I expected it to increase my tissue oxygenation, and it wouldn't be good for my high blood pressure. On the other hand, the carbogen bath is about having my skin exposed to CO2, and I expect it to work differently from the breathing unit.

Still four sets of data:

nwo2012: 97% sat, 78 bpm, 36.9C (oral)
Aspekt: 98%, 87, 36.1C
yerrag: 99%, 56, 36.5C (ear)
blossom: 99%, 79, 36.5C (oral)

As far as Aspekt's data goes, I have to wonder why at a high heart rate of 87, the temperature is slightly lower than the expected (afaik) 36.5C waking temperature. @Aspekt what could you share about your context?

@nwo2012, your sat is the lowest and you have a higher than normal waking temperature, and it looks good. Is this the effect of inclined bed therapy? the resting heart rate could still go up during the day.

Was Ray Peat at a high elevation when he got his 89% sat reading? He doesn't say where he was but he said it was when he was feeling really good. I sure would like to try all the metabolism boosting supplements like thyroid, progesterone, pregnenolone, niacinamide, coffee, sugar, and the different ways to increase CO2 (bag breathing, carbogen breathing, and carbogen bath, drinking soda water) and see how that would improve my sats, but I couldn't because all of those things increase my blood pressure. Would uncoupling the mitochondria lead to lowered sats? Don't you think there is a good possibility that we are still long way off from the level of metabolism Ray achieved? If that's true, we're really not reaching our potential.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not advocating using the abovementioned boosters to metabolism. Just as my condition makes my body restrict my metabolism, as evidenced by my much lower heart rate, I believe that each of us have his own condition, which the body bases on to determine a metabolic rate that is optimal to his own context. Why does one get to have a high heart rate, in the 80s, for example, and yet he isn't using up plenty of oxygen and therefore his oxygen saturation remain on the high 90s? Could it be that he's running up against a wall in terms of oxygen transport (say there's mercury blocking oxygen uptake in the hemoglobin), or he's running short on vitamin A, or magnesium, that it impacts the full enablement of the phosphorylative oxidative pathway. For sugar metabolism to be maximized, all of the enzymatic reactions have to be firing on all cylinder, otherwise the energy output would be lessened. If the reactions are suppressed somehow, the demand for oxygen would be lessened, and the uptake of oxygen into cells would be lessened, and the oxygen saturation values would stay high. At that condition, adding say thyroid wouldn't help.

Or take the case of someone with pulmonary obstruction that limits his oxygen transport capability. If he supplements progesterone, it will force metabolism to increase and his oxygen demand will increase. But if the oxygen transport is defective, he will incur an oxygen deficit and he may turn to anaerobic glycolysis for energy, and then he will produce lactic acid. This will in turn affect acid-base balance. And when high blood/ecf acidity causes him to exhale more CO2, he will have less CO2 in his blood, and he will further then have a diminished capability to deliver oxygen to his tissues. There comes a point when the body reaches a steady-state condition as it adapts to the new set of conditions. Needless to say, he is making do with what he's got and making the best of it. That balance, as imperfect as it is, is what registers with us as a certain set of data involving our oxygen saturation, heart rate, and temperature (and etCO2).

Yet I'm hopeful that there is somebody in our forum that has reached this apex but isn't aware of it. He/she would probably have plenty of hair, have very good complexion, and have a much more highly developed brain. If only all cellphones have a heart rate monitor and a pulse oximeter built-in.

 

[Blossom]

We find Leukosilk to be best. Are you in US? I think its available there, certainly abundant here in Australia.

Thank you, I'll see if it's available here.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Was 99. Temps 36.4C.

Ate eggs and steak and coffee. Walked.

Dropped to 98 and 36.2C. Hypoglycemia methinks.

Drank soda. Went to 94 and 36.4 then bounced up to 98.

 

[nwo2012]

So much good stuff on carbon dioxide. Thanks for sharing this. Makes me want to start trying out my carbogen bath. I just want to see personally what it can do for me. I've had it for a year already and haven't tried it. I wasn't keen on using the carbogen breathing unit, as I expected it to increase my tissue oxygenation, and it wouldn't be good for my high blood pressure. On the other hand, the carbogen bath is about having my skin exposed to CO2, and I expect it to work differently from the breathing unit.

Still four sets of data:

nwo2012: 97% sat, 78 bpm, 36.9C (oral)
Aspekt: 98%, 87, 36.1C
yerrag: 99%, 56, 36.5C (ear)
blossom: 99%, 79, 36.5C (oral)

As far as Aspekt's data goes, I have to wonder why at a high heart rate of 87, the temperature is slightly lower than the expected (afaik) 36.5C waking temperature. @Aspekt what could you share about your context?

@nwo2012, your sat is the lowest and you have a higher than normal waking temperature, and it looks good. Is this the effect of inclined bed therapy? the resting heart rate could still go up during the day.

Was Ray Peat at a high elevation when he got his 89% sat reading? He doesn't say where he was but he said it was when he was feeling really good. I sure would like to try all the metabolism boosting supplements like thyroid, progesterone, pregnenolone, niacinamide, coffee, sugar, and the different ways to increase CO2 (bag breathing, carbogen breathing, and carbogen bath, drinking soda water) and see how that would improve my sats, but I couldn't because all of those things increase my blood pressure. Would uncoupling the mitochondria lead to lowered sats? Don't you think there is a good possibility that we are still long way off from the level of metabolism Ray achieved? If that's true, we're really not reaching our potential.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not advocating using the abovementioned boosters to metabolism. Just as my condition makes my body restrict my metabolism, as evidenced by my much lower heart rate, I believe that each of us have his own condition, which the body bases on to determine a metabolic rate that is optimal to his own context. Why does one get to have a high heart rate, in the 80s, for example, and yet he isn't using up plenty of oxygen and therefore his oxygen saturation remain on the high 90s? Could it be that he's running up against a wall in terms of oxygen transport (say there's mercury blocking oxygen uptake in the hemoglobin), or he's running short on vitamin A, or magnesium, that it impacts the full enablement of the phosphorylative oxidative pathway. For sugar metabolism to be maximized, all of the enzymatic reactions have to be firing on all cylinder, otherwise the energy output would be lessened. If the reactions are suppressed somehow, the demand for oxygen would be lessened, and the uptake of oxygen into cells would be lessened, and the oxygen saturation values would stay high. At that condition, adding say thyroid wouldn't help.

Or take the case of someone with pulmonary obstruction that limits his oxygen transport capability. If he supplements progesterone, it will force metabolism to increase and his oxygen demand will increase. But if the oxygen transport is defective, he will incur an oxygen deficit and he may turn to anaerobic glycolysis for energy, and then he will produce lactic acid. This will in turn affect acid-base balance. And when high blood/ecf acidity causes him to exhale more CO2, he will have less CO2 in his blood, and he will further then have a diminished capability to deliver oxygen to his tissues. There comes a point when the body reaches a steady-state condition as it adapts to the new set of conditions. Needless to say, he is making do with what he's got and making the best of it. That balance, as imperfect as it is, is what registers with us as a certain set of data involving our oxygen saturation, heart rate, and temperature (and etCO2).

Yet I'm hopeful that there is somebody in our forum that has reached this apex but isn't aware of it. He/she would probably have plenty of hair, have very good complexion, and have a much more highly developed brain. If only all cellphones have a heart rate monitor and a pulse oximeter built-in.

Ive used/am using various mitichondrial uncouplers and thyroid supporting supplements as well as anti-endotoxin substances and have a mild bed incline. I started RP based eating around 2012 (nwo 2012) so things are steadily improving. I also had the initial effect of a dropping pulse and temperatures as my metabolism was definitely being run by stress hormones.
Yes as the day goes on my measurements increase.

 

[yerrag]

Was 99. Temps 36.4C.

Ate eggs and steak and coffee. Walked.

Dropped to 98 and 36.2C. Hypoglycemia methinks.

Drank soda. Went to 94 and 36.4 then bounced up to 98.

Interesting. What was the waking heart rate to go with the sat and the temp?

Maybe eating uses energy, and oxygen saturation dropped? And the walking too. But since you didn't eat carbs and plenty of protein, it may have caused your blood sugar to drop, hence the lower temps. You fixed it though with the soda with the temperature increasing, as well as using up more oxygen. Perhaps when all order was restored (blood sugar normal) the sat increased as oxygen wasn't needed so much anymore?

 

[yerrag]

ve used/am using various mitichondrial uncouplers

what were the mitochondrial uncouplers you used @nwo2012 and @Blossom ? Or continue to use

 

[nwo2012]

what were the mitochondrial uncouplers you used @nwo2012 and @Blossom ? Or continue to use

NDT in winter and beginni g of spring. Caffiene, methylene blue, steryl alcohol regularly.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Interesting. What was the waking heart rate to go with the sat and the temp?

Maybe eating uses energy, and oxygen saturation dropped? And the walking too. But since you didn't eat carbs and plenty of protein, it may have caused your blood sugar to drop, hence the lower temps. You fixed it though with the soda with the temperature increasing, as well as using up more oxygen. Perhaps when all order was restored (blood sugar normal) the sat increased as oxygen wasn't needed so much anymore?

I am also realizing how easy it is to become hypoglycemic if you have too much coffee...and that lowers temperatures...

Today:

96 oxygen sat
36.8C.
just had some coffee and milk, and some pineapple. Did UVB treatment and red light. Had a few micrograms of T3.
80 HR

 

[ecstatichamster]

I feel wonderful

37C. feel pleasantly warm
oxsat is 96 or 97, interestingly...
80 HR, up to 85 or even 90.

and I've been just sitting here working.

this is a great state and feeling. It's amazing.

 

[yerrag]

I am also realizing how easy it is to become hypoglycemic if you have too much coffee...and that lowers temperatures...

Today:

96 oxygen sat
36.8C.
just had some coffee and milk, and some pineapple. Did UVB treatment and red light. Had a few micrograms of T3.
80 HR

Good numbers.

But there's room for progress. You're on the 99 percentile. Next to be in the 99.5 percentile.

Go go go!

What other tests could help? Blossom mentions etCO2 although capo meters are beyond reach for most people.

I had suggested in another thread the use of ECG QTc values. A QTc value greater than 440 msec is hypothyroid. My ECG QTc is 420 msec barely passing. Would lower QTc values be useful in gauging metabolic health. I think so.

I could get ECG at diagnostic labs for less than $8 in Manila, but too bad they aren't available from labs in the US without a doctor's approval. And the portable ECG units are restricted from providing this data.

 

[Ahanu]

sitting at the couch in the afternoon i usually have these readings:
36,9-37 Temp
95-96 Ox
68-70 Puls
when i feel stressed than Oxygen is always above 97 but it is very hard to feel stressed sitting at the couch.

 

[yerrag]

NDT in winter and beginni g of spring. Caffiene, methylene blue, steryl alcohol regularly.

Thanks. If you are taking these, would you expect numbers to get better gradually over time?

 

[yerrag]

sitting at the couch in the afternoon i usually have these readings:
36,9-37 Temp
95-96 Ox
68-70 Puls
when i feel stressed than Oxygen is always above 97 but it is very hard to feel stressed sitting at the couch.

Thanks for sharing. It looks very good. Wonder what's keeping your pulse from getting to the 80s. What is your context?

 

[Ahanu]

Thanks for sharing. It looks very good. Wonder what's keeping your pulse from getting to the 80s. What is your context?

thanks and yes, puls is pretty low. it was even lower before peating. I trained like an athlete in my youth(tennis) and now i teach it and so i play a lot and also do physical work. i dont care about the puls too much because through all the years of training(i am 40 now) i bet my heart is not the typical one, so i don´t take the ideal heartrate suggestions from peat too serious. another reason that i dont try to increase it is because i found kind of a sweetspot, and i am happy that it stayed like this for almost 2 years now.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I took 1g of inosine to see what would happen to my temps. I'm taking that every day anyway, but this time I'm monitoring it. I also had a little coffee and sugar and milk and cocoa powder.

Nothing much seems to have happened. All good.

 

[ecstatichamster]

ate then exercised. 37C, 97oxsat, 90HR

still going great -