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Better Metabolism- Higher Heart Rate And. Lower Oxygen Saturation (spO2)?

Discussion in 'Metabolism' started by yerrag, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    From KMUD Herb Doctors - Altitude July 2013 :

    HD: So why are hospitals so concerned, especially in emergency rooms, you know, they test your oxygen saturation by putting this meter over your fingertips and then they give you oxygen to breathe?
    RP: Well, for one thing, I’ve tested those things on my finger and everyone feels really good when they have a 99% saturation, but I’ve noticed that when I am feeling really the best I can get mine down to 89%. And I have thought about that a lot, and watched the different conditions that cause it, and hyperventilating will cause the saturation to go up and having just cold fingers will make the oxygen go up. If you are not using the oxygen, it doesn’t do you any good to have your haemoglobin saturated if you’re not using it. So those finger meters aren’t really very informative unless you know what temperature your fingers are at.


    So Ray has said these. And it makes sense to me.

    So there are two aspects about oxygen in the body: one is the transport, and the other is the delivery. They're not the same thing. Oxygen transport is about oxygen molecules being attached to hemoglobin in the blood, as blood goes through the lungs and exhale CO2 and inhale air and attaching oxygen to hemoglobin in blood. And oxygen delivery is about oxygen being released by hemoglobin to the tissues, and enabling tissue oxygenation, which is important as it supplies the cells with oxygen for use in metabolism and producing energy for our body's needs.

    When we measure oxygen saturation with a pulse oximeter at our fingertips, we are easily drawn to the idea that the higher the oxygen saturation value, or spO2, the better it is for us. And this is the myth that hospital doctors and nurses don't dispel. But we now know better.

    We know that it isn't necessarily so. The purpose of oxygen is to oxygenate our tissues. As blood is coursed through the body, it should be doing its job of releasing the oxygen to tissues. As oxygen is released, there is going to be lower oxygen being carried by the blood. For a healthy individual with no lung problems or mercury toxicity, blood that passes through the lungs loads up on oxygen, and starts off with 100% oxygen saturation. Because oxygen is released as blood circulates through the arteries, the oxygen saturation will naturally go down. If the body has high metabolism, it will use up more oxygen, and it will have the effect of lowering oxygen saturation to a greater extent. This is why Ray Peat says that when he is feeling best, his oxygen saturation is showing a value of 89%.

    The 89% value would normally be frowned upon by the hospital nurses and doctors, but with a better understanding of metabolism and oxygen demand from a higher metabolism, and as to how it relates to oxygen saturation, they should not be so one-dimensional with their thought processes. In my opinion, they should consider both heart rate and temperature. If heart rate is high and temperature is normal, they may consider it highly probable that the patient is healthy. If the heart rate and the temperature is low, they need to look further into the state of the patient. They may at this point provide oxygen ventilation, for example (although I wish they could use carbogen).

    But in thinking about this, I wonder if we could be able to affirm in our own individual experience what Ray Peat has said. For those of us with the tools to measure heart rate, temperature, and oxygen saturation easily, could we start logging these values daily, at opportune moments of rest (waking up, before turning in, when sitting down reading), and then see if we can find a relationship between heart rate and oxygen saturation? Would we see that as our resting heart rate increases, our oxygen saturation decreases?

    If you have a pulse oximeter, you can easily get this information. If you have a Samsung Galaxy S6 and higher model, you can easily measure and log in your spO2 and heart rate info on the Samsung Health app.

    @Janelle525, you have a high heart rate in the mid to high 80s. Would you be open to doing this? I, on the other hand, have a much lower heart rate at around 70. Who else is interested in doing this?

    It would be interesting to see if we can validate what Ray Peat has said, not that I'm doubting him. It's just that he's said so many things that have been proven right, but there are so many things (like this) that he's said that hasn't really taken full hold of our consciousness. Doing a group validation would go a long way in drilling this into our mind.

    @tara @lisaferrero @Mito @Jon @tankasnowgod @x-ray peat @ecstatichamster @Regina @Jennifer @charlie @Blossom @Captain_Coconut what do you say? Who else?


     
  2. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Let's keep it simple. Let's just post our waking spO2 and heart rate. This morning I woke up to 99% and 56.
     
  3. Janelle525

    Janelle525 Member

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    I have wanted to, but for my phone I'd need the finger thing separately.
     
  4. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Oh, you mean your phone allows for an attachment that reads spo2 and heart rate? It's not built-in like the Samsung S series phones?
     
  5. Janelle525

    Janelle525 Member

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    Right, I have a Moto G5. I think a lot of phones can use the attachment I haven't checked.
     
  6. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

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    @yerrag I have been saying this for a few years! use sp02 on a pulsometer as an indicator of good metabolism!!

    years ago when i started peating i bought a cheap 10 dollar pulsometer. My oxygen saturation at sea level rarely gets below 97/98.

    In 2016 i went to live in la Paz Bolivia for 6 months, at an altitude of 13,000 feet. My oxygen saturation was constantly 89% and ever since then ive known my oxygen saturation to be a great and easy to obtain marker of health.

    people spend so much on these carbon dioxide monitors, all you need is a cheap pulsometer with oxygen saturation.

    @yerrag with regards to your 56% reading i think you need to get a new device, its obviously broken
     
  7. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    @Joeyd, I think that was the heart rate.
    @yerrag, you are correct in your analysis of oxygen saturation readings with a pulse oximeter. They are very limited and only tell one small piece of the story. They continue to be used because they are convenient and noninvasive but for a true oxygen saturation an ABG is needed. Even an ABG will not tell you how much oxygen is being utilized by the body though only how much is bound to the hemoglobin of arterial blood. If your nail beds and mucus membranes are nice and pink you can generally assume your tissues are well oxygenated.
    I'd love to be part of the experiment but I don't have my own oximeter at the moment because I gave it to a family member that needed it more than me.
    The altitude a person lives at can also have an impact on their readings.
     
  8. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Glad to hear of your good experience with a pulsometer, especially seeing it used to track your health joeyd.

    What do you think of this?:

    oxygen saturation at 89% -

    heart rate at 80-90: temps at 37C - excellent; temps below 37C - problematic (problem with oxygen transport primarily, with other issues possible*)
    heart rate at 60-80: temps at 37C - good but can be improved; temps below 37C - problem with oxygen transport (blood not carrying enough oxygen)
    heart rate at 40-60: temps at 37C - is this possible at all?; temps below 37C - problem with oxygen transport
    oxygen saturation at 97 -100%-

    heart rate at 80-90: temps at 37C - is this possible?; temps below 37C - problem with heart pumping efficiency
    heart rate at 60-80: temps at 37C - tissue oxygenation is restricted; temps below 37C - hypothyroid
    heart rate at 40-60: temps at 37C - is this possible?; temps below 37C - poor tissue oxygenation/hypothyroid

    * poor tissue oxygenation and heart pumping inefficiency
    Just a rough idea of how I would use oxygen saturation and heart rate info as a start. Other measurements (including blood tests) could be used by narrow down, starting with blood pressure, which is easily obtained.

    In my case, I fall under oxygen sat at 97-100, and heart rate 60-80, with temps at 37C. I have high blood pressure, and constricted arteries lead to restricted tissue oxygenation. I have to resolve my high blood pressure condition by eliminating its cause. Once the cause is eliminated, tissue oxygenation would be improved, and my oxygen saturation values would go lower, and my health would improve, as more energy is produced to support not only vital functions, but to develop my body such as brain, skin, and hair.

    I agree with you that the pulsometer is underused as a tool for our health.


     
  9. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Thanks for clarifying with joeyd blossom. It's good to know nail beds and mucus membranes can be used to gauge tissue oxygenation. I can visualize it with nail beds, but am at a loss with mucus membranes. It's true about the pulse oximeters. They change hands quickly depending on who needs it. Mostly, they're just sitting around doing nothing after the need for it is gone.
     
  10. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    The inside of the mouth is a good place to observe.
    We normally inhale 21% oxygen at sea level and exhale about 16%.
    There's typically an overabundance of oxygen in relation to what is required by people of average health in the surrounding air.
    Perfusion is one way to estimate how well a person is utilizing oxygen. Blood pressure is a rough way to determine perfusion/ how well oxygenated blood is being delivered to the tissues.
    I'll check my sat's and HR Wednesday and Thursday and report back. I've been running 98% whenever I check and I live at 700 feet above sea level.
     
  11. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Is it the lining inside the cheeks? Is that what doctors look at when they shine a light inside?
    The healthy people should be around unhealthy people to feed of their abundance of oxygen :):
    This made me think a lot. It certainly applies to my specific condition, but I didn't know it applies generally. If high blood pressure is a result of constricted blood vessels, certainly this would lead to less delivery of oxygen to the tissues, and less utilization as well.
    Great! Please take it upon waking up, if that's possible.

    I hope we can get more people to provide waking pulse and oxygen saturation values. @Joeyd?
     
  12. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    One error in the OP is cold fingers actually shows lower sats, due to a poor trace which can be seen visually on screen. We have this issue with especially older women and you then need to check with an ear probe or you would be making a pre-arrest phone-call due to seeing sats of 70%. The fact they dont have blue-lips is a giveaway its a false negative.
     
  13. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Very hard to understand your meaning. Is English your first language? Your sentences are very ambiguously constructed.
     
  14. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    Cold fingers do not give readings of oxygen saturation that are high, they give low readings. Yes English is my first language. Which part is ambiguous?
     
  15. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Maybe it's just the jargon you use, it's above my pay grade. I had difficulty tying them in. Clearly, it wasn't ambiguous if I just knew the jargon. Sorry if I sounded like an English teacher.
     
  16. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    Haha thought I was about to get detention there for a minute....
    It's all good mate, yes I was using a bit of jargon, apologies.
     
  17. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I was the one mixed up. So the cold fingers may give a low sat reading that isn't indicative of the actual oxygen saturation. Why does this occur? Is it because blood circulation to the extremities is impaired?
     
  18. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    Yes that's correct, poor blood flow. Seen in hypothyroidism and also peripheral vascular disease (PVD, commonly seen in diabetics) and sometimes in people with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Happens to a lesser degree in shock.
     
  19. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Thanks.

    Is the ear probe used to get sat or temp readings?

    Always good to have a visual check, as in the lip coloration, to verify instrument readings. A good extra step. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.
     
  20. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    100% agree. I've had to use a forehead probe when all else fails.
    @yerrag, I will get my oximeter back soon since the person I loaned it to no longer needs it. Thursday and Friday I would not be able to take my reading until I've been awake for a couple hours so if you'd prefer I will wait until I get my oximeter back.
     
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