Respiration Key To Increase Oxygen In The Brain, A New Mechanism

[Mauritio]

Respiration key to increase oxygen in the brain

I found this article/ study really interesting, since it shows that there is another mechanism of getting more blood into the brain besides increasing blood flow!
Namely through the increase of the oxygen-saturation of hemoglobin. It was not believed to be possible that hemoglobin could deliver more oxygen per unit than it already does ,which was shown to be not true.

Not only that, but the scientist found that when blood flow went down , respiration made it possible to keep oxygen supply for the brain at the same level!

"...but then we realized it was the respiration that was keeping the oxygenation up."

"The oxygenation persisted when neural activity and functional hyperemia (blood flow increases) were blocked, occurred both in the tissue and in arteries feeding the brain, and were tightly correlated with respiration rate and the phase of respiration cycle.""

So the oxygenation of the brain is tightly correlated to the rate of oxygenation. I wonder what that implies for diseases like stroke and outcome of stroke survivors ...?
Maybe the ones with higher respiration rate have better outcomes ,since they can provide oxygen more/longer even in the presence of a thrombus...


Respiration key to increase oxygen in the brain

 

[redsun]

Respiration key to increase oxygen in the brain

I found this article/ study really interesting, since it shows that there is another mechanism of getting more blood into the brain besides increasing blood flow!
Namely through the increase of the oxygen-saturation of hemoglobin. It was not believed to be possible that hemoglobin could deliver more oxygen per unit than it already does ,which was shown to be not true.

Not only that, but the scientist found that when blood flow went down , respiration made it possible to keep oxygen supply for the brain at the same level!

"...but then we realized it was the respiration that was keeping the oxygenation up."

"The oxygenation persisted when neural activity and functional hyperemia (blood flow increases) were blocked, occurred both in the tissue and in arteries feeding the brain, and were tightly correlated with respiration rate and the phase of respiration cycle.""

So the oxygenation of the brain is tightly correlated to the rate of oxygenation. I wonder what that implies for diseases like stroke and outcome of stroke survivors ...?
Maybe the ones with higher respiration rate have better outcomes ,since they can provide oxygen more/longer even in the presence of a thrombus...


Respiration key to increase oxygen in the brain

Good post but shouldn't come as a shock. Of course than we have a good amount of people here who try to do the exact opposite and breathe as little as possible.

 

[lampofred]

This is tricky to interpret because increased oxygen saturation of hemoglobin could also mean LESS oxygenation, because oxygen is stuck in the blood instead of being released into brain cells. Anything that lowers CO2 (such as hyperventilating) will do that.

 

[Mauritio]

This is tricky to interpret because increased oxygen saturation of hemoglobin could also mean LESS oxygenation, because oxygen is stuck in the blood instead of being released into brain cells. Anything that lowers CO2 (such as hyperventilating) will do that.

Who says its stuck in the blood ?

 

[lampofred]

Who says its stuck in the blood ?

That's what oxygen saturation of hemoglobin means. Hemoglobin is the oxygen carrying protein in blood that supplies oxygen to the entire body. The higher the oxygen saturation of hemoglobin, the more oxygen there is in the blood but that doesn't directly tell you anything about how much oxygen the cells are getting. In fact higher blood oxygen is often associated with lower cell oxygen.

 

[Mauritio]

That's what oxygen saturation of hemoglobin means. Hemoglobin is the oxygen carrying protein in blood that supplies oxygen to the entire body. The higher the oxygen saturation of hemoglobin, the more oxygen there is in the blood but that doesn't directly tell you anything about how much oxygen the cells are getting. In fact higher blood oxygen is often associated with lower cell oxygen.

I mean thats the question , does it neessarily mean that cell oxygen is lower or do we just not know it ?
But I dont see why in case of an emergency, like a stroke,the cells wouldnt use more oxygen if it is available.

 

[lampofred]

I mean thats the question , does it neessarily mean that cell oxygen is lower or do we just not know it ?
But I dont see why in case of an emergency, like a stroke,the cells wouldnt use more oxygen if it is available.

I think it could go either way depending on CO2 levels. Lowering CO2 will increase oxygen saturation of hemoglobin while also lowering cell oxygen, whereas with the same amount of CO2, increasing oxygen saturation of hemoglobin will increase cellular oxygenation. Hyperventilation (as in endurance exercise, like in the study) will lower CO2.

The problem might be that the brain doesn't have enough CO2 to use the oxygen, that's why Dr. Peat has recommended baking soda and carbonated water (to increase CO2) for stroke before.

 

[redsun]

I think it could go either way depending on CO2 levels. Lowering CO2 will increase oxygen saturation of hemoglobin while also lowering cell oxygen, whereas with the same amount of CO2, increasing oxygen saturation of hemoglobin will increase cellular oxygenation. Hyperventilation (as in endurance exercise, like in the study) will lower CO2.

The problem might be that the brain doesn't have enough CO2 to use the oxygen, that's why Dr. Peat has recommended baking soda and carbonated water (to increase CO2) for stroke before.

If you lower CO2 in the cell, more CO2 will be made. This is what exercise does. You breath more, so you expel more CO2 and then more CO2 is made in the cell. There is always compensation. Problem is if you manage to raise CO2 without increasing its removal (via breathing more for example) you will make less CO2 in the cell.

You want good oxygen saturation. The obvious thing is if you are anemic your hemoglobin is not optimal this severely inhibits how high your metabolism can raise. Methylation can also increasing breathing drive. Carbonic anhydrase also plays a role in dealing with CO2.

You don't want maximum CO2 lingering in the body at all times which is exactly what you will get if you use tons of CO2 raising supplements, you want maximum CO2 formation which you will only get if you can get rid of CO2 normally. Caffeine makes you breathe more and can help deal with CO2 raising supplements.

If you voluntarily hypo or hyperventilate this is bad and not how it is supposed to be.

 

[lampofred]

If you lower CO2 in the cell, more CO2 will be made. This is what exercise does.

My guess is that exercise does that because of the increased heat production, not the increased breathing. Because if you just sit and breathe faster you will become CO2 deficient, but if you take calcium/vit D or exposure yourself to cold or use coffee/aspirin or do anything which increases UCPs and heat production, you will produce more CO2 in the tissues without actually breathing more.

 

[redsun]

My guess is that exercise does that because of the increased heat production, not the increased breathing. Because if you just sit and breathe faster you will become CO2 deficient, but if you take calcium/vit D or exposure yourself to cold or use coffee/aspirin or do anything which increases UCPs and heat production, you will produce more CO2 in the tissues without actually breathing more.

Ok I think that's partially my fault. I meant to say exercise requires more energy which means using oxygen. Its not heat production, heat production is a consequence of raised metabolism from exercise. Exercise causes oxygen to drop (because you are using it) and CO2 to rise and as a results you breathe more. The increased urge to breathe that comes with exercise is caused by lack of oxygen and CO2 build up. As a result you get rid of CO2 and you make more CO2 in the cell from oxygen.

 

[lampofred]

Ok I think that's partially my fault. I meant to say exercise requires more energy which means using oxygen. Its not heat production, heat production is a consequence of raised metabolism from exercise. Exercise causes oxygen to drop (because you are using it) and CO2 to rise and as a results you breathe more. The increased urge to breathe that comes with exercise is caused by lack of oxygen and CO2 build up. As a result you get rid of CO2 and you make more CO2 in the cell from oxygen.

I think the big problem with exercise is that it drops blood sugar (which will cause a compensatory increase in FFA and an increase in 5ht), even though if done moderately (not long distance endurance exercise) it does drop oxygen and increase CO2 production which like you said is a good thing.

I think that's why Dr. Peat doesn't really recommend it and instead focuses on other things to raise metabolism (like calcium, sugar, coffee, etc.) that don't drop blood sugar.