Applying Pure T3 (tyronene) On Scrotum

[ecstatichamster]

D2 is stimulated by digestive bile salts

Bile acids induce energy expenditure by promoting intracellular thyroid hormone activation : Abstract : Nature

In both rodents and humans, the most thermogenically important tissues are specifically targeted by this mechanism because they coexpress D2 and TGR5. The BA–TGR5–cAMP–D2 signalling pathway is therefore a crucial mechanism for fine-tuning energy homeostasis that can be targeted to improve metabolic control.

 

[Wagner83]

See the rest of the discussion here:
Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread

So d3 turns most of t4 into rt3 , and t3 into t2. Since we're discussing applying t3 on scrotum I'm curious about the effects of increasing t2, after all 16mcg of t3 is a huge dose so perhaps t2 will be highly elevated from topical administration of t3.

T2: The Lesser Known Thyroid Hormone
"

• T2 appears to be more specific to the mitochondria, as opposed to the DNA-based actions of T3
• T2 has weaker protein binding potential than T3
• The conversion of T3 (or rT3) to T2 is not affected by fasting like the T4 to T3 conversion is
• The main source of T2 is most likely peripheral tissues (rather than the thyroid), partly evidenced by studies showing that skeletal muscle acts as a target for the hormone

Although the exact mechanisms by which T2 exhibits changes on metabolism are not yet completely understood, the following summary of the scientific findings regarding its actions are impressive enough that some healthcare providers have begun to use it in clinical practice:

• rapidly affects mitochondrial respiratory parameters
• increases resting metabolic rate (RMR), despite lower circulating T4 and T3
• decreases adiposity (both in general and specifically abdominal fat) by increasing fat burning
• decreases triglycerides and cholesterol levels
• decreases fatty liver markers
• reduces diet-related weight gain
• stimulates glucose consumption and growth hormone
• may relieve diabetic neuropathy
• may reverse impairments in mitochondria
• activates SIRT1 and AMPK – important for healthy aging and preventing insulin resistance
• improves resistance to cold among hypothyroid subjects (in an animal model)
• increases mitochondrial capacity to import and oxidize fatty acids"

Effect of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine on thyroid stimulating hormone and growth hormone serum levels in hypothyroid rats. - PubMed - NCBI

"3,3'-T2 did not affect GH levels whatever the dose. Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3'-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats."

3,5-Diiodo-L-thyronine (T2) has selective thyromimetic effects in vivo and in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI
"These data confirm that T2 has significant thyromimetic activity, and that this activity is selective both in vivo and in vitro. However, there are no data to support a selective central effect, T2 being relatively more potent in stimulating hepatic ME mRNA than in suppression of TSH in vivo. The basis for this differential thyromimetic activity is not selective affinity of the different TR isoforms for T2, or divergent properties of T2 in competitive binding and functional assays in vitro."

Are the effects of T3 on resting metabolic rate in euthyroid rats entirely caused by T3 itself? - PubMed - NCBI
"These results seem to indicate that when T3 is injected into N animals, not all the effects on RMR are attributable to T3 itself, the early effect presumably being largely because of its in vivo deiodination to 3,5-T2. Because the effects of T3 and 3,5-T2 are additive, in N rats, the two iodothyronines probably cooperate in vivo to determine the total metabolic rate.
"
Administration of 3,5-diiodothyronine (3,5-T2) causes central hypothyroidism and stimulates thyroid-sensitive tissues
"
In conclusion, chronic 3,5-T2 administration reduced body mass gain and retroperitoneal fat mass and increased the RMR regardless of decreased thyroid hormone levels. The reduction in thyroid hormone levels might be secondary to the decreased serum TSH levels, leading to the reduced activity and expression of NIS, thyroid D1, and TPO. These new data support the idea that exogenous 3,5-T2 causes TSH suppression. Thus, future studies on the possible deleterious effects of hypothyroidism in tissues where 3,5-T2 might not act as a thyromimetic agent are of great importance before this thyroid metabolite can be used as a pharmacological agent."
Not sure if euthyroid rats or rats or a good model for humans.

From what I see applying t3 on the scrotum is different from just feeding the testicles with a bit of T3.

 

[Wagner83]

I'm not sure which form of t2 the d3 converts t3 into. Most of the information at disposal suggest d3 really inactivates t3, however the papers above make a difference between 3,5-t2 and 3,3-t2 .

Pretty interesting read on d3:

D3, the deiodinase enzyme that makes reverse T3 (NOT Vitamin D3)

The idea that too much T3 will lead to T4 being inactivated to rT3 and thus will raise rT3 is worth considering imo.

Other thoughts on the potential negative effects on too much T3: T3’s negative effect on other hormones

Thyroid supplementation looks far too complex for me.

 

[Wagner83]

Any more feedback from @MOUNTAINBEAR or other members on this tyronene + other stuff applied on scrotum?

 

[sladerunner69]

@MOUNTAINBEAR Can we get an update? Are you still teabaging a bowl full of tyronene every morning?

 

[TheHound]

@MOUNTAINBEAR Can we get an update? Are you still teabaging a bowl full of tyronene every morning?

lmfao

 

[skycop00]

I'm not sure which form of t2 the d3 converts t3 into. Most of the information at disposal suggest d3 really inactivates t3, however the papers above make a difference between 3,5-t2 and 3,3-t2 .

Pretty interesting read on d3:

D3, the deiodinase enzyme that makes reverse T3 (NOT Vitamin D3)

The idea that too much T3 will lead to T4 being inactivated to rT3 and thus will raise rT3 is worth considering imo.

Other thoughts on the potential negative effects on too much T3: T3’s negative effect on other hormones

Thyroid supplementation looks far too complex for me.

In my personal experience I used selenium and my reverse T3 all but disappeared!

 

[Wagner83]

Thanks for that, did you use foods rich in selenium or tried them before supplementing?

 

[skycop00]

Thanks for that, did you use foods rich in selenium or tried them before supplementing?

I prefer foods yes, but when lacking I use a mixed version from PURE encapsulation

 

[skycop00]

I have since added iodine from kelp salts and I have lugols as well. All labs look good and I feel good overall. Although I am always seeking a new bio hack to keep me super-human...lol

 

[DaveFoster]

I'm not sure which form of t2 the d3 converts t3 into. Most of the information at disposal suggest d3 really inactivates t3, however the papers above make a difference between 3,5-t2 and 3,3-t2 .

Pretty interesting read on d3:

D3, the deiodinase enzyme that makes reverse T3 (NOT Vitamin D3)

The idea that too much T3 will lead to T4 being inactivated to rT3 and thus will raise rT3 is worth considering imo.

Other thoughts on the potential negative effects on too much T3: T3’s negative effect on other hormones

Thyroid supplementation looks far too complex for me.

The thing is: if you happen to take too much T3 (marginally too much), you're good within a day as it clears from your system quickly.

 

[Wagner83]

Well not sure about that as it may take some more time if the body has adjusted to the excess T3 by increasing T4 conversion into rT3 . Just a wild guess at this point, experimenting is superior, also the question was on topical T3 and how it can turn into T2, some of which appears to not be active. I asked Ray again about topical T3 , hopefully I'll have something to share.

 

[Wagner83]

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

@haidut @schultz @DaveFoster

 

[DaveFoster]

Hi Ray!

In a previous discussion you said :" For topical use (T3), I think about a tenth of a microgram per milliliter is effective."
Do you mind sharing why such a dilution is necessary?



Ok , do you think on other body parts T3 is pretty useless or needs a much higher concentration to have an effect?
I have found information on how the skin deactivates or transforms thyroid hormones but not sure about T3, certain forms of T2 have their use.

Spoiler: References

References:

Expression of Hypothalamic–Pituitary–Thyroid Axis Related Genes in the Human Skin
"Actual transformation of T4 to T3, and of T3 to T2 have been demonstrated in cultured epidermal keratinocytes (Kaplan et al, 1988), although the pattern of expression of the corresponding genes has not been evaluated in human skin."

Acute downregulation of Type II and Type III iodothyronine deiodinases by photoperiod in peripubertal male and female Siberian hamsters. - PubMed - NCBI
"whereas DIO3 both catabolizes T3 into diiodothryonine (T2) "

Effect of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine on thyroid stimulating hormone and growth hormone serum levels in hypothyroid rats. - PubMed - NCBI

"3,3'-T2 did not affect GH levels whatever the dose. Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3'-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats."

3,5-Diiodo-L-thyronine (T2) has selective thyromimetic effects in vivo and in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI
"These data confirm that T2 has significant thyromimetic activity, and that this activity is selective both in vivo and in vitro. However, there are no data to support a selective central effect, T2 being relatively more potent in stimulating hepatic ME mRNA than in suppression of TSH in vivo. The basis for this differential thyromimetic activity is not selective affinity of the different TR isoforms for T2, or divergent properties of T2 in competitive binding and functional assays in vitro."

So thyroxin (T4) can be used for those who do not have conversion issues, or excessive inflammation that interferes with the metabolizing of T4. In those cases T3 may be used to overcome the deficit. Thanks for sharing, Wagner.

I remember Ray saying that when he took T3-only, even a small amount of psychological stress would make him suddenly hypothyroid. Paradoxically, high levels of psychological stress should raise inflammation and interfere with the metabolism of T4, so there's still some outstanding questions, and I'm sure Ray's answer here would be along the following lines: "It's all individual."

 

[Wagner83]

Follow up:
Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

 

[haidut]

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

@haidut @schultz @DaveFoster

Interesting, thanks for asking him! He said "100mcg in 100ml". That would make is 1mcg/ml solution, which is way way more diluted than the 8mcg/drop solution we have. So, ours should work as well right?

 

[Wagner83]

Interesting, thanks for asking him! He said "100mcg in 100ml". That would make is 1mcg/ml solution, which is way way more diluted than the 8mcg/drop solution we have. So, ours should work as well right?

He said 10mcg in 100ML except for the eyes which absorb t3 (from what he says) really well. I'm not sure why he recommends this dilution, maybe he means that more t3 over a smaller surface of skin would be absorbed less? Or maybe he means 10 mcg in 100 ML will already give pretty high T3 levels locally in the skin.

 

[Obi-wan]

You guys sure are a funny bunch! I think taking T3 and reading this thread makes it work better! By the way I like t3 with Tocovit sublingual. Mountain Bear should try his application with Tocovit and share his results

 

[RobertJM]

Mountain bear died in a huge bubble of sperm. He wasn't smarter than the average bear.

You guys sure are a funny bunch! I think taking T3 and reading this thread makes it work better! By the way I like t3 with Tocovit sublingual. Mountain Bear should try his application with Tocovit and share his results

What difference does tocovit make to that combination?

 

[RobertJM]

Just tried one drop of tyronene on the balls. Immediate cold hands (even whilst sugared up). That doesn't work then. Onto the next 'cure for all'.