Overcoming A 4 Year Battle With Hypogonadism And Insomnia

Discussion in 'Logs' started by stevensmith, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. stevensmith

    stevensmith Member

    Jul 19, 2012
    I was 17 years old when I became overwhelmed with a horrible case of secondary hypogonadism, or low testosterone. I also had insomnia and general fatigue and malaise throughout the day. Every day was a struggle and getting through 9 hours of classes day in and day out was hell. I became a social recluse. I didn't want to talk to anybody, and my embarrassment with hypogonadism, erectile dysfunction, and low libido, made it even worse. So attached to my male ego, I didn't want to tell anybody the truth. But I was hurting inside. I was alone and felt that nobody could help me. After 6 months of depression and feeling like I was not fully attached to my body (I seemed to lose feeling and awareness of the world around me by being immersed in my illness), I finally broke down in tears to my mother and told her everything.

    She took me to several doctors, but all of them pushed me away because they thought I was "too young to have these problems." After I saw 3 MD's, I went to a urologist and had my testosterone levels checked. Yup, I was extremely deficient in testosterone. My levels measured that of an 80 year old man. Over the course of several months, they consistently measured in the 212-240 ng/dl range. At 17 years old, they should have been close to 1000 ng/dl!!! My urologist told me to come back in a year and that if my levels didn't improve, he would put me on TRT. Testosterone replacement therapy at 17 years old? And for the rest of my life? Nope, that picture didn't seem right to me. How could I go from being a completely healthy 17 year old, happy, horny, and energetic teen, to feeling like a piece of ***t everyday with no will to fight back, no longer any interest in sports, no virility, and no sex drive or function?

    The turning point for me was when I became very angry that not even professionals could help me, and I decided that I was on my own in my journey back to health. As a result, I grew a strong will to succeed and overcome adversity.

    Jump ahead four years, I am now 21 years old (almost 22) and have finally defeated my arch nemesis (hypogonadism). It took me four years to do it, but I did it. However to get here, I suffered many pitfalls. I followed many diet gurus, and in some instances, actually went backwards in my journey back to health.

    Over the course of the last 4 years, I....
    - spent nearly $2000 on supplements in any attempt to correct my illness. I would try anything and everything, as long as it promised me a full recovery, or even a temporary escape.
    - tried dangerous therapies, such as a shot of intramuscular triptorelin, which probably wasn't even the real thing.
    - tried zinc and copper electrotherapy on my testicles
    -tried ozone therapy
    - went on a "standard" low carb paleo diet for 2 years, then a low carb raw meat paleo diet for 1.5 years (which 6 months of this time was a ketogenic, all-meat diet).

    With all of the money and time I spent, nothing worked, and I had mixed results all the way through each experiment. For example, sometimes my testosterone would raise all the way up to 500, and then a few months later, it went down to 300. Libido and sexual function improved, but was also incredibly sporadic and unpredictable, and my insomnia barely got better, with marginal results at best. Though I would get mixed results with everything I tried, I always kept my strong will to succeed, which was instilled in me when I first became outraged with the way the current medical system is, turning away 17 year-olds with real problems. I always kept faith, and faith that I would beat my enemy.

    Then it finally happened. I picked up a book by Broda Barnes called "Hypothyroidism; the Unsuspected Illness." I was astonished how so many health conditions were remedied by fixing the thyroid and metabolism. I began studying physiology and its relationship with the endocrine system, and how food could change the direction of the endocrine system to favor a positive or negative outcome, depending on which food was consumed. I also studied circadian rythms and other lifestyle factors that correlated with a healthy endocrine system.

    On one chance afternoon, I came across a man by the name of Stepan Stastny. He was eating like 300-400g of carbs per day, which at the time I thought was totally crazy... I was still following the low carb dogma of sisson, lustig, kresser, vonderplanitz, carl lanore, etc, etc....

    However, while I ignorantly argued my viewpoints with Stepan, I couldn't help but realize that this guy was the picture of health. His testosterone was at great levels (not always associated with good health, but still a possible indicator), his vitality was apparent, and his attitude was admirable. Stepan, along with Danny Roddy also had hypogonadism at one point in their lives, and overcame it in the same fashion (following Ray Peat). One day when I was arguing with Stepan and wondering why my low carb diet wasn't working, he told me to shut the F**k up and eat some carbs, and get a boner!!! Not many people may respond well to this kind of behavior, but I responded well to it. He also directed me to the works of Ray Peat, who I later realized followed Barnes' work. After following the Stastny and Peat way of eating, I made a complete recovery in about 5 months time. Because I was able to help my thyroid come back to normal, and subsequently normalize my steroid hormones, my hypogonadism was defeated, and my testosterone was restored.

    I now enjoy all of the benefits of a fully fertile and virile male. I no longer have insomnia because not only do I get enough sleep (8-10hrs) every night, but my quality of sleep is also better, due to the fact that since my thyroid is good, my nerves are able to fully relax. This can be seen in a achilles reflex test. If your nerves are slow to relax, chances are, your thyroid is bad, and you probably have poor sleep.

    After all of these years dealing with this issue, I gained a lot of knowledge and wisdom. In my studies, I realized that sleep is probably one of the most important things to consider if you have endocrine problems. A full nights rest can restore your thyroid hormone (T3) to normal levels, and of course, you can't have a full nights rest, of quality restorative sleep without a good thyroid. So in a sense, the system works in a positive feedback mechanism and is regulatory in an upwards or downwards fashion. In other words, if the thyroid is good, then your sleep quality will be good, and because of the good quality sleep, your thyroid hormone will be restored, resulting in a good thyroid, and then the process starts all over again. What else besides a good nights rest dictates whether your thyroid is good or not? Proper nutrition, which supports a good thyroid. Duh!!!

    Thank you Ray Peat, Stepan Stastny, and Danny Roddy.... I salute you...
  2. j.

    j. Member

    Jul 22, 2012
    great story!
  3. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

    Jan 4, 2012
    Wow! Steven you are a total inspiration! And you absolutely give me hope that I can turn my health around with the right approach. I sincerely appreciate you telling your journey, and a big congratulations to you for healing yourself. Your story I am sure will help a lot of other people realize that they can do it to. You have truly inspired me. Thank you.

    Being so young and pulling yourself out of the hole that you did, and by yourself, man I just can't express how awesome that it. Realizing that modern medicine is not much help these days, and finding the way for yourself, right on!

    I have 3 questions for you.

    What time do you usually go to bed and do you try to stick to it every night?

    What do you consider proper nutrition? Do you mind posting a sample menu for a day along with supplements to? If not the supplements, definitely the meal plan for a day would be awesome so I can gauge if I am heading the right way with nutrition.

    And do you use any of the lights that Ray Peat suggests?

    Again, many thanks. Big pat on the back to you my friend. :)
  4. OP

    stevensmith Member

    Jul 19, 2012
    Thank you for your kind words Charlie. I think the most important thing is what you're not eating as opposed to what you are.

    Peat suggests to "eat to increase the metabolic rate rather than any particular food," and I wholeheartedly agree. It's important to consider the temperature and pulse. If the pulse is high and you have a normal temperature, then your adrenalin is probably way too high. Typically this goes in hand with a low peripheral temperature, and high internal temperature, such as cold hands, feet and genitals. However, if this is you, then your temperature reading might read 98.6. This is a false reading for thyroid because adrenalin acts by pulling heat away from the periphery to heat the core.

    However if your pulse is really low, like in the 60's, 70's, or lower, then its apparent that your thyroid is not working properly to cause the heart to work adequately. Running and other endurance exercises, even long marathon weight lifting workouts, can easily cause the problems of high adrenalin/low pulse, low thyroid, etc.... Ideal temp and pulse, suggestive of a good thyroid is 98.6+ and a pulse of about 80-105.

    Since thyroid hormone is restored with rest, ideally, if somebody is in need for recovery, homeostasis, or needs to fix themselves of their maladies, probably one of the best things they can do is stop working out all together. Working out is a stress by itself and should be taken seriously. Before one works out, they should consider how they are going to recover their T3 quickly, and also consider how much the workout will lower their T3. If 2 hours after the workout, the temperature is lower than before, then the workout is not helping you, its hurting you. The lower metabolic rate will prevent muscle gain and fatloss, so all this hype about working out hard, and for long durations is bull****.

    Then on to sleep. I don't really practice what I preach when I talk about sleep. This has always been one of my hardest things to work on. I am a night owl, and it is my biggest problem. Sometimes when I go to bed way too late, like last night (2am), my morning temperatures are a tad too low (today- 97.7). When I go to bed early (9-11pm) my temperatures are always high (97.9-98.6). Its usually going to be lower in the morning, and then once you get food in you, by mid morning, it should rise to 98.6 or higher ideally. Rest and sleep restore thyroid hormone, which help you sleep easier the next day, so its a revolving cycle that has to be tweaked.

    Then onto diet. There are several things that are controllable when it comes to diet. Since these things can be measured and the results can be measured, this gives you power and increases your will to continue, rather than following some stupid paleo diet or vegan diet, which is supposed to work on the premise that simply avoiding "unnatural" foods will heal you. Those kinds of diets are frustrating because they leave you broke and wondering when they will make you healthy, when they'll miraculously and magically work. The answer is never....

    Peat eating gives one hope because it produces MEASURABLE results rather than arbitrary whims of health.
    The things that can be controlled are.

    1) PUFA- Peat believes there are no essential fatty acids. This is true. They are present in just about everything and small amounts is all that's needed. You could probably be fine on .0001g PUFA per day, and this is always unavoidable no matter what you do. Excess PUFA causes most of the problems diet related. It does this by many actions, but the main ones are prostaglandin stimulation, PGF2, Serotonin upregulation, estrogen upregulation, prostaglandin mediated aromatization, toxic lipid peroxidation, lipofuscin, oxidation and high reactability with other compounds, free radicals, etc..

    When talking about testosterone, PUFA stimulates prostaglandins, which not only create excess inflammation, but cause aromatization in the body, which would otherwise not happen so intensely. Aromatase is the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen, and PUFA is largely responsible for the bulk of it. When adopting a Peat type diet, it can take up to 4 years to rid the body of stored PUFA, so patience is needed.

    2) Serotonin- decreases testosterone and works with estrogen to do this. It also antagonizes dopamine, which in turn decreases testosterone.

    3) Fiber- increases endotoxin and gut serotonin and subsequently total body serotonin. Serotonin works to increase estrogen and lower testosterone. Fiber also causes constipation and colon issues. It's good to avoid it for the most part.

    4) lactic acid- prevents proper cellular respiration and depletes the liver of glycogen. You need liver glycogen to make T3. Lactic acid is an energy waster.

    5) phosphorous- too much causes a catabolic state and anti-bone/protein state, which in turn lowers thyroid, inc estrogen, etc...

    How do we fix these issues? PUFA problems can be remedied by increasing the ratio of saturated fat to PUFA, and by also lowering the amount of PUFA one eats. A good goal is to get to less than 2g PUFA per day. And if there is more, it should be balanced by a higher consumption of saturated fat. Eating mostly low PUFA meats like red meat, and white fish/shellfish, and ommitting chicken, pork, seal, and other high PUFA foods helps. Never eat vegetable oils, or other high PUFA oils like mayonnaise, and never eat nuts, seeds, grains, etc...

    Serotonin issues can be fixed by adequate nutrition, getting enough B6, found in fruit, meat and liver, and also by limiting the amount of tryptophan (converts to serotonin) in the diet, which can be achieved by NOT eating muscle meat, and by eating collagenous meats like shanks, oxtail, beef neck, gelatin, etc...

    Fiber issues can be fixed by both omitting high fiber foods like grains and green vegetables. Starches should be limited, and should always be eaten with a raw carrot or bamboo shoots, because the fiber in them prevent bacterial endotoxin, and is "good" fiber in context.

    Lactic acid issues can be fixed by limiting exercise to an appropriate level, and omitting high lactic acid foods like cottage cheese and other fermented dairy products like yogurt, Kifer, etc...

    Phosphorous issues can be fixed by having a high calcium to phosphorous ratio. This is achieved by drinking lots of milk and eating calcium rich foods. Possibly also adding a calcium supplement of pure oyster shell calcium.

    Other important notes: its important to get adequate carbohydrates, typically greater than 300g per day, to ensure adequate liver glycogen to make adequate T3, and also ensure that you are using primarily glucose for energy, since free fatty acids can lower thyroid function. Its important to consume liver once per week to get adequate vitamin A, and other fat soluble vitamins, especially if one is on a low fat diet. Its important to get enough minerals like sodium, calcium, potassium, magnesium, etc... Get adequate protein to ensure proper liver glucoronidation and detoxification of estrogen. Low protein diets also cause hypothyroidism.

    What do I eat on a daily basis?

    I regularly eat/drink:

    -1/2 gallon to 1 gallon of 1% milk per day, mixed into a shake with 2 tsp salt, 1/2 cup cane sugar, 1/2 cup beef gelatin. Shake well to mix the contents. Whole milk is okay, but sometimes the extra fat is very fattening.
    - some animal protein: such as collagenous meats, like oxtail, shanks, beef neck, and sometimes chuck roast,
    - some oysters every week due to their high zinc/copper/tyrosine levels, good for testosterone and thyroid. Oysters are probably the best natural mineral supplement. All other shellfish are inferior, so my philosophy is "don't bother, spend your money on oysters." Crab and other white fish like cod and solefish, are good choices.
    - 1/4 -1/2 gallon of orange juice. Very good magnesium and potassium levels.
    -1 tbsp of coconut oil, with coconut oil added to my food for frying purposes.
    - 1 raw carrot per day

    - liver once per week

    I drink all of my liquid food before 5 or 6pm, to ensure that by 11pm, I don't need to pee anymore, which ensures good sleep. I save my solid foods for dinner, which also helps me sleep better due to slower digestion.

    I supplement with unique e vitamin e, especially if I am going to go out for dinner and I know the food will be cooked with PUFA. I also supplement with dessicated thyroid (thiroyd) if I need it. Its always ok to take as long as the thyroid doesn't get too hyper, in which case, you would stop taking it. Traditional cultures always ate the thyroid gland frequently, along with progesterone and pregnenolone-rich brain, so the whole bit about "taking dessicated thyroid is cheating," is bull****.... If you need it, take it!

    Once in a while I'll make a kale broth to get enough vitamin k.

    That's pretty much all I take for supplements. I try to make food my true supplements, like oysters, and liver.

    There is an androgenic steroid that can possibly help to reverse androgen deficiency. It's called proviron, and it actually doesn't suppress your HPTA, which is what most androgenic steroids do. It's basically oral DHT, and DHT isn't as suppressive, if at all, as testosterone. I suppose this is because testosterone can aromatize to estrogen and DHT cant'. Estrogen is said to be like 200x more suppressive to the HPTA axis, than testosterone, and that's probably why steroid users have shrunken testes, and low endogenous testosterone. If you can find REAL proviron, try it temporarily, but I think its really hard to find the real thing, and there are plenty of counterfeits. It's used in Europe though.

    But I think in the long run, dessicated thyroid is a better supplement than proviron, and proviron might possibly be good short term to reverse hypogonadism.
  5. DMF

    DMF Member

    Sep 5, 2012
    Alot of stuff going on there Steve. Thanks for sharing it. I'm still in the process of repairing my broken life(health).
  6. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

    Aug 28, 2012
    Yes thanks for posting and glad its going well for you. I will put up one myself and for mrs nwo2012 when I have the chance.
  7. gummybear

    gummybear Guest

    Great story!!

    Who is this Stepan Stastny? I googled him but didn't find anything.
  8. lazz

    lazz Member

    Jun 26, 2013
    bump...great story and info however PROVIRON is and AAS (Steroid) and it will supress your HPTA..hes wrong about it..
  9. zorrich

    zorrich Member

    Apr 5, 2013
    "-1/2 gallon to 1 gallon of 1% milk per day, mixed into a shake with 2 tsp salt, 1/2 cup cane sugar, 1/2 cup beef gelatin. Shake well to mix the contents."

    Do you add that amount of salt/sugar/gelatin in total or to each shake you make? How many shakes do you typically make with 1 gallon of milk?

    The reason I ask is because I have been salting my beverages to help with fluid intake, but have not been anywhere near 2tsp.

    EDIT: And BTW, great story :) Glad you've found your way!
  10. Jenn

    Jenn Member

    Feb 24, 2013
    Not my recipe, but the salt is in relation to the sugar...at least in my own eating.
  11. Aragorn

    Aragorn Member

    Dec 29, 2014
    Need help with similar condition as OPs.

    Hello. This is my first post here. I know this is an old post. But I hope the OP can reply.

    I'm having low testosterone as well and I'm told that I have Secondary Hypogonadism, meaning that my pituitary is not releasing enough hormones to stimulate testosterone production. I'm 36. The problem started to be unbearable 4 years ago. But there was a slow progressing fatigue for many years prior that.

    What should I read, exactly, to follow the OPs path to fix my metabolism (assuming that my testosterone problem is caused by low metabolism)??? OP mentioned Broda Barnes' book. Anything else???

    Besides, if I do the thermometer test as soon as I wake up in the morning and it turns out that my temperature is within 97.8 and 98.2 - does that mean that my metabolism is ok and I don't need to try to fix it anyhow?

    OP, please respond. Or anybody else!

  12. tara

    tara Member

    Mar 29, 2014
    Re: Need help with similar condition as OPs.

    :welcome Aragorn
    Just noticed this post went unanswered last month.
    I'd recommend reading/listening to Ray Peat's articles and/or interviews. The interviews are usually at a simpler level than the articles. I find I get more out of both when I read again - he packs in a lot of information.

    I gather that measuring both temps and pulse gives a better picture of thyroid function than either alone. Noting temperature of extremities as well as core can be part of the picture, as well as other symptoms. Together you can get a better idea of whether temperature and/or pulse are being elevated by stress hormones or are being sustained by healthy thyroid function or are low because of low thyroid.

    If you want more opinions from us here, you might get more if you post a bit more info - eg what are you eating, and how is your health in other ways, and maybe a bit of health history? If you want to you can post lab results - some people here are good at spotting useful patterns in the numbers even if they are within the ranges the endocrinologists consider 'normal'.
  13. Aragorn

    Aragorn Member

    Dec 29, 2014
    Well, basically I'm at the end of the rope, so to speak. I'm experiencing gross, unbearable fatigue which makes me unable to function in life. It's a miracle that I still didn't lose my job since I can barely work. I feel like I'm 95 and dying. It's even hard to talk and my speech became slurred, brain fog, panic attacks... I'm now 36, first symptoms started when I was around 16- 19 and it has been a very gradual decline since.

    I've tried many natural approaches, herbs, diets, spent all my savings on those and they got me nowhere. Every natural "group" condemns all the other ones.... but none gave me any results. The ONLY case of naturally curing symptoms of low testosterone I found was this OP's story here.

    Yes, I can assume that it may be thyroid that causes my troubles, but I can't get clear info on Ray Peat's approach, the articles and interviews are all scattered all over the subject of health.... What I've been able to understand so far is that sugar is needed for metabolism of proteins, proteins are needed for proper thyroid function and proteins should be of right kind - and that seems to be the base of Ray Peats approach. But, as any newbie to Peataterism, at this point I DO have huge reservations about eating tons of sugar. I get candida overgrowth when eating too much carbs. My current blood glucose is 101, borderline high, and I lost many teeth due to eating sugar when I was a kid (I THINK that's due to sugar). That being said, I do currently eat plenty of honey and organic meat as well as butter.

    5 years ago I went on a wrong diet because someone convinced me that my tiredness is caused by eating meat. I basically became vegetarian for 2 years. It could be a coincidence, but during this time my decline in energy was more rapid, followed by initial boost in energy. Later on, being on that diet I did notice that I started breathing slower, and I think (but never measured) that my heart rate slowed down. I was also having trembling in my hands sometimes and some sudden fast hands movements which were not noticeable by other people but that scared the hell out of me and looked like I was having neurological problems... I also had numbness in my arms. I went back to my normal diet 2 years later. Trembling, numbness and sudden movements stopped, but the fatigue remained and is now actually getting worse slowly, despite of return to my normal diet. I don't digest food without supplementing with HCL and enzymes. Without those supplements I get alternating diarrhea and constipation all the time. I do have H. Pylori which I'm afraid to treat with antibiotics and don't know any other way.

    I know you may not approve my current diet but let me give you an idea of what it is. Organic meat, broth, some fish, eggs, potato, green salads with olive oil, some flax seeds oil, homemade kefir, butter, honey, brown rice and spelt crackers. Sometimes chocolate. Green tea. Chicory. It's interesting that my fatigue does not seem to be dependent on diet...

    A "controversial" natural practitioner (I'll leave it at that) said I have a small brain tumor that prevents release of hormones from Pituitary. A brain MRI in 2012 showed all fine. One doctor wants me to get a new brain MRI due to low LH and FSH but I don't want to do it since there's no cure for these things anyway so I don't want to know if I have a brain tumor. Besides chronic fatigue, I don't have any major diseases.

    I can't say that my hands/feet are cold. Sometimes I do experience some "hot flushes". But I don't know how that compares to a healthy person so maybe that's normal to feel that way.

    - Currently my average level of total testosterone is around 250 (normal range: 350 - 1080).
    Free T - 128 (47 -244).
    Bioavailable Testosterone - 372 (131 - 682).
    Sex hormone binding globulin - 19 (11 - 80).
    Follicle stimulating hormone - 2.8 (1.6 - 9.7).
    Estradiol - 23 (14 - 43).
    Cortisol - 20.7 (2.3 - 19.4).
    TSH (Nov 2012): 3.07 (0.450 - 4.5)
    TSH (May 2013): 5.21 (0.51 - 6.27).
    TSH (July 2013): 3.0 (1.1 - 12.5).
    TSH (July 2013): 2.20 (0.51 - 6.27).
    TSH (apr 2014): 3.36 (0.450 - 4.5)
    (so TSH tends to be on the higher side).

    LH and FSH are always on the low side: LH around 2.5 to 5 (1.7 - 8.6).
    FSH around 3.0 (1.5 - 12.4).

    My White Blood Count is low: 3.6 (3.4 - 10.8) and no doctor knows why. I don't know whether it was always low or just during recent 3 years.

    My heart rate is usually 75 - 80. Body temperature during the day is usually 97.8. Never measured early morning.

    Also 2 out of 4 blood tests for Lyme disease came borderline high but all doctors are saying I don't have Lyme. The only diagnosis doctors came up with was Hypogonadism (low Testosterone) and they want me to get on Testosterone replacement for life but I'm still refusing it.

    Is there a way to know for sure that my thyroid is not doing well and is the cause if my condition? Is there a way to make sure I don't get diabetes if I jump into Ray Peat diet?

    Please let me know if you need more info from me.
  14. tara

    tara Member

    Mar 29, 2014
    Hi Aragorn,
    Sorry you're having such a struggle.
    There is a lot of intertwined info in Peat's articles - not easy to work out a plan from reading them. In theend, figuring out from all the information you can get what i going to help you is part of the process of recovery.
    I'm not an expert, and have not solved my own key problems yet, but I have some thoughts. Others would probably see different things.
    You will be the one who can best tell what works for you and what doesn't with experimentation.
    There are lots of different threads to pull in diet - providing good fuel, protein, micronutrients, reducing toxins (incl PUFAs) and gut irritants, and in other aspects like getting sunlight, keeping warm, and maintaining good CO2 levels. Which make the most diffference varies from person to person.

    The TSH looks consistently on the high side, indicating a bit of a shortage of thyroid. I tend to favour focussing on diet and lifestyle first, because they may resolve a lot of problems. And if that is not enough, you need a nutritious diet to support any hormone supplementation anyway. Do you know what your cholesterol levels were like? You need a good substrate of cholesterol from which to produce the steroid hormones, including testosterone.

    Diabetes: I don't think there are any guarantees, but some factors may help. I have been concerned about diabetes in the past, and reading Peat's article on sugar and diabetes (http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gl ... etes.shtml) turned my ideas upside down. Getting PUFA as low as possible may help reduce further damage to the pancreas. Peat tends to recommend sugar in th e form of fruit/ juice, milk and honey, with refined sucrose more as a supplement or occasaional filler whe good fruit and honey aren't available. Fruit and milk bring with them minerals (eg magnesium and potassium) that help with the metabolism of sugar. Sucrose is half sugar and half glucose, fruit and honey often have similar proportions or a bit more fructose, whereas starches break down to all glucose. If I'm reading Peat right, it is the glucose that pushes up insulin, and that has trouble entering cells to be oxidised for energy when there is insulin resistance or a shortage of insulin. Fructose can be metabolised for energy even without normal insulin levels. The main problem with diabetes is the difficulty/inability of cells to oxidise sugars efficiently to produce usable energy to keep everything functioning. So sucrose and other fructose-glucose mixes are less likely than starches (or other glucose only carbs) to cause diabetic issues. If the rest of your diet is rich in minerals, you can get away with a bit of refined sugar, but fruit, milk, and honey are better if they work for you. The Randle 'cycle' may also come into play - high levels of circulating fats - either from a fatty meal or from fats liberated from stores under stress conditions - can suppress the ability of cells to oxidise sugar. So a lowish fat intake and keeping blood sugars high enough not to trigger stress reactions can help keep sugar burning happening. For those of use whose liver glycogen storage capacity is weak, this seems to mean eating (or drinking) fairly frequently.
    I used to get recurring thrush infections, but have had very little trouble with them. I think the improvement coincided with starting to eat more sugar, and more overall, after a long period of low sugar. There may well have been other factors too.
    For people with unhelpful gut microbiota and sluggish peristalsis, starches and some fibres can overfeed the the bacteria, and contribute to high bacterial endotoxin loads, which burden the liver and other systems. Simpler sugars are usually more quickly digested, leaving less to feed the bacteria.
    I've had many cavities in my teeth - just as many during 15 years of low-sugar as before and after. Strong thyroid and good mineral supply can help improve the quality of saliva, which apparently is one of the keys to dental health. Can't say I've got this solved for myself, but avoiding sugar didn't improve it.

    Protein: For people in hypothyroid states, Peat usually recommends 80-100g protein; healthy adults generally do better with more - eg 130-150g. Insufficient protein is one way to slow the liver down. Unless you personally have insurmountable difficulties with dairy, he usually recommends dairy as a good source of protein. Gelatin can help balance the excessive tryptophan in muscle meats. Quite a lot of posters here eat significant gelatine, as homemade jellies, or mixed into drinks and soups etc.
    Keffir and other fermented milk can have a lot of lactic acid. For people with run down systems, the lactic acid can be a significant burden - IIRC, on the mitochondria and on the liver. If fresh milk works for you, it avoids this problem with kefir, yogurt, etc. Greek/strained yogurt/qwark etc have a lot of the lactic acid drained off with the whey, and some people here eat them for tasty protein.

    You can check your micronutrient intake with cronometer. For most people, Peat recommends iron would be better a bit lower than RDI, obviously PUFAs as low as possible - Peat says under 4g is protective, and calcium:phosphorus 1:1 - 2:1, with calcium at least 1200mg.
    Calcium: milk, eggshell, oystershell (in order of preference)
    Magnesium: OJ, coffee, greens (cooked or pureed will yield more than salads),
    epsom salt baths, supplements
    Potassium: OJ, other fruits and veges
    Sodium: salt, baking soda - some people say adding more salt makes a big difference to them. I notice I get problems if I accidentally reduce salt too much.
    Zinc: oysters
    Copper and many other minerals: liver (one serving a week, or smaller portions more often)
    Too much iron can be a burden. Many peopel here drink coffee or coca cola and avoid vitamin C at meals with meat to reduce iron absorption.
    Liver also provides one of the richest sources of vit-A, and a relevant amount of vit K2, plus some B vitamins.

    The gut produces extra serotonin, in response to intestinal aggravation including friction, stretching, and some toxins. Serotonin stimulates peristalsis to move things along and out. Too much serotonin can contribute to problems. Large amounts of green salads can be rough on the intestines for some people. Most greens will yield more of their mineral nutrients with less anti-nutrients if they are cooked than they will raw.

    Do you get plenty of sunlight? It helps restore the cytochrome oxidase enzyme, crucial for energy production.

    You can get more of an idea of what's going on with thyroid if you measure temps several times a day for a couple of days - including as soon as you wake up, an hour after breakfast, ... From the TSH you posted, and your symptoms, it seems likely that thyroid function is a bit on the low side.

    Not from Peat, but one of the ways some people get into fatigued/depleted states is from simply undereating for too long. This can cause all sorts of problems, including driving down metabolism (thyroid function), slowing and weakening digestion, causing the body to abandon production of testosterone till better nourished days, etc. Most public calorie guidelines are too low, based on studies of what people say they eat, not what they actually eat. With some individul variability, apparently, the average non-dieting, weight-stable man eats about 3000 cals/day. I don't know if this applies to you, but people who eat a lot less that this over a prolonged period can suffer some of the symptoms you describe, including low testosterone.

    Once you've had a look at whether your diet is meeting your needs, I wonder whether other tactics might be worth considering - eg thyroid, pregnenlolone, progesterone. If you decide at some stage to supplement thyroid, I recommend, based on my reading, not from my own experience, a slow cautious approach to dosing.

    Hope you can find an approach that helps.
  15. tara

    tara Member

    Mar 29, 2014
    Anti-biotics: Peat has been quite positive about some kinds of anti-biotics, but not others. I haven't used any since starting to read Peat, but I think minocycline is one he favours, and there are others. It can give the system a break from endotoxin load for a while. There are a couple of threads discussing antibiotics and the pros and cons of probiotics when gut flora is out of balance.
    If nothing else is working, anti-biotics might be a reasonable thing to try, esp if you can get the safer kinds.

    Not from Peat, but other remedies I've heard of for h. pylori are manuka honey and matula tea. Don't know if raw garlic is effective.

    Btw, I don't diapprove of any one's diet (well, I guess I'd draw the line at some things :): ) - it's just a matter of whether it is working well enough for you. I don't think it has to be the same for everyone, though I do think low PUFA, adequate protein and micronutrients, and generous carbs are probably useful for everyone.
  16. Aragorn

    Aragorn Member

    Dec 29, 2014
    Tara, thank you for your support.

    My cholesterol is constantly 200. My cortisol. .. I don't remember exact numbers but it's slightly over normal range. I was taking over the counter adrenal and thyroid (T-150) supplements both containing desiccated animal adrenal and thyroid glands extracts correspondently. I noticed no improvement at all.

    I've tried to take gelatin in a glass of water with each meat containing food. Tried to stop taking olive oil as dressing for salad - no improvement in both cases. I guess it's a matter of changing the dietary "religion". For example, all sources I've heard say to take uncooked oils only and to avoid sugar.... As I understand it, olive oil is PUFA... It's hard to believe in something that contradicts majority, even though I admit that majority can be wrong.

    I'm not sure but I think when I'm sick with flue and having fever once or twice a year, my fatigue is less prevalent. Maybe that's the clue pointing to the fact that my normal temperature is low. I also noticed that when I take Ibuprofen - my fatigue is also less burdening... not sure what that means.

    I do take homemade kefir made from raw goat milk. Are you saying that's fermented and should be avoided as per Peat?

    Undereating for long does not seem to be my problem.

    I haven't tried to calculate how much protein and calories I take. But I usually take meat on lunch and dinner. No milk right now. I take about 3 teaspoons (is it 15 grams?) of raw honey as dessert for dinner. Is that too low of sugar per day? I eat potatoes only sometimes. Why is my glucose on high side?

    These are my thoughts so far. Thanks!
  17. tara

    tara Member

    Mar 29, 2014
    Hi Aragorn,
    Olive oil varies, but the bottle in my cupboard says around 10% PUFA. This is much better than many other liquid seed oils. A little every day is probably fine (Peat has suggested ~1tsp), but regular large quantities contribute to PUFA burden. Coconut oil is more like 1-2% PUFA. Uncooked undsaturated oils may be less oxidised before they enter your body, but once they enter your body they are exposed to heat and oxygen and all the destructive things can happen there anyway. If you haven't read Peat's articles on fats, I'd recommend them.
    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fa ... ions.shtml
    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/un ... fats.shtml

    Plain gelatin in water doesn't sound all that appetising, but good that you are getting some - I like mine mixed with juice or coffee. Coffee is probably better with meat because it hinders rather than encourages iron absorption.
    Peat stopped drinking keffir when he noticed it triggered migraines for him. He says the lactic acid in keffir is a burden on the whole system, including the liver. If you can strain it to remove most of the whey, that would reduce the lactic acid content.

    I don't have the time or patience to regularly track calories and other nutrients, either. But if you haven't done it at all lately, it might well be worth doing for just a few days (cronometer.com), to quantify what you are getting. You might be surprised.
    I used to think that since my weight was always in the 'ideal/normal/healthy' range, I was probably eating enough. I've since learned that teh body will adapt and sometimes sacrifice a lot to maintain it's weight, even in the face of an ongoing energy deficit. This may not be you, but it would be interesting to see.

    A lot of people here eat a few hundred grams of sugar, from various sources. I aim for at least 300g/day (but I don't track carefully). I now eat a lot more sugar than starch. I can't say I've solved my key health issues, but I think my energy levels are a bit more stable now after a prolonged period with more sugar and less starch. I don't think I could have switched overnight though. When sweet things taste good to you, that may indicate that you could use more sugar. 15 grams of honey is very low sugar intake.
    How much sugar is optimal may well vary from person to person, but it seems likely it will be in range of 1:1 - 1:6 or protein:sugar. I'm aiming for 1:3 - 1:4, but I don't know if I've got it right for myself yet. I haven't had my blood sugars measured for a while though, so I don't know what's happening at that level.

    If you eat less when you have flu, you could feel temporarily better from not feeding your endotoxin producing gut bacteria so much or a few days.

    If you know what the ingredients in your thyroid supplement are that might meaningful - I'm not familiar with them. Some don't have active T3 or T4, and those that do would be expected to have a ratio of approx 1:4 T3:T4. Overdosing seems to set up some resistance in the body. How much were you taking? Did you notice any effects?
    Peat has said that many people do better with a higher ratio of T3:T4, varies from person, but usually in the range 1:2 - 1:4. Too much T4, if the liver isn't up to the job of converting it to the active T3, can sometimes cause more problems. I haven't tried supplementing T3 or T4 other than my daily small amount of chicken neck soup. If you do try it at some stage in the future, I'd recommend starting low and slow. I've posted about this in a few other threads. I don't think this is the first thing I would try if I were you, but maybe down the track.

    My hunch is that the h. pylori infection may be an important issue to address fairly soon, either by trying natural remedies or prescription anti-biotics.

    Take care
  18. tara

    tara Member

    Mar 29, 2014
    Ibuprofen: I use it from time to time to try to stop a threatening migraine (my key issue), and I sometimes notice improved energy. I guess general anti-inflamatory effects help with general energy production, but I don't know the mechanisms.
    After reading Peat (http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aspir ... ncer.shtml), I'd prefer to use aspirin (with vit-K supplement) and sometimes do, but the ibuprofen seems to give me a better chance against the migraines, and if I've already taken aspirin I think I need to hold back on the ibuprofen. I'd be interested in Peat's take on this. Many people here take aspirin regularly.
    Have you tried aspirin instead of ibuprofen? Notice any effects?
  19. Aragorn

    Aragorn Member

    Dec 29, 2014
    Hi Tara,
    Sorry for late response. It's too much info to process.

    How do people who follow Peat's diet do in the blood sugar and diabetes matters? Do they normally have evelated blood sugar? Do they monitor sugar levels? According to that article if I start eating white sugar now - my blood sugar should normalize, it should go down (it's now borderline high - 101). Will that happen? My mother gave me one of those sugar measuring devices which I never used so I may try that test. Have other Peateterians here reported decrease in blood sugar after starting eating 300 g or more of sugar?

    No I don't eat less when I have flu. I think it's the raise in body temperature that makes me feel slightly better. I don't know why 4 years ago I stopped drinking hot tea after lunch, replacing it with slightly warm water. Now that I resumed hot tea, I'm not sure yet but it seems like it helps a little.

    This is the thyroid supplement I was taking:

    https://www.xymogen.com/products/produc ... px?pid=220

    I didn't feel any difference on it.

    I've heard many horror stories from people who developed internal bleeding due to aspirin so it scares me. I've never tried aspirin. Maybe I should. But again, I'm afraid to overdo it.

    There's so much contradicting information... makes me question and doubt everything I hear. The increased sugar intake issue is the biggest contradicting piece of information I'm getting. I don't want to make another mistake. One more will probably kill me... So if you can, please reply regarding blood sugar and insulin responses to increased sugar intake by real-life examples.
  20. jyb

    jyb Member

    Nov 9, 2012
    Ray's stance seems to be that elevated blood sugar is a symptom of a metabolic problem, due to poisoning by pufa maybe, and that could be helped with eating more carbs for example. That is because in general Ray recommends to run on glucose (eat carbs) rather than on fatty acids (eat fats), with the nuance that a lot of the harm of using fatty acids is due to when they are pufa.

    I'm not sure how problematic Ray views the pre-diabetes blood sugar range. Some people non-related to Ray will say hyperglycaemia / pre-diabetes is extremely dangerous (just like hypoglycaemia) as the higher sugar content would cause damage to organs over time. There are many implementations of Ray's work, if one of them causes you to have excessive blood glucose and you believe its driving you to diabetes, then you don't have to do that particular one. However whatever you do should improve indicators like your thyroid status, stress and mood, sleep quality, hunger etc.